I hope last weekend finally kills the "you need a Franchise QB to be a contender" nonsense

[xRUSHx]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

If you have a very good defense or a defense on a hot streak with lots of opportune turnovers, you can win games with a mediocre qb who avoids turnovers.  I think most will grant that TT can win those kind of games.  His limitations are obvious to anyone not blinded by irrational bias (and/or a member of the national media.)  We'll be getting a new qb in 2018 and thankfully this prolonged, pointless discussion will go the way of EJ and Orton and a dozen other failed qbs.

We all hope change will happen, sadly we all thought change would happen before and boom we get a Brown, a CJ, a Peterman. We all wanted change and boom we get a EJ, we all wanted change again with McD and boom we continue with a QB hand picked by Rex. Until it happens we all hold our breathe. The problem is trying for a top prospect over the ones left over, picking up other teams backups . EJ was just a bad class to pick a top one in. Need to hold the QB position in a higher regard before we will ever have one that can be considered franchise worthy. This is the draft to do it.

Edited January 21, 2018 by xRUSHx

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, xRUSHx said:

We all hope change will happen, sadly we all thought change would happen before and boom we get a Brown. We all wanted change and boom we get a EJ, we all wanted change again with McD and boom we continue with a QB hand picked by Rex. Until it happens we all hold our breathe.

Starting Peterman and post-season talk from Beane indicates to me a qb change will be a priority.  I'll be surprised if Taylor isn't cut or traded.

[JaCrispy]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Starting Peterman and post-season talk from Beane indicates to me a qb change will be a priority.  I'll be surprised if Taylor isn't cut or traded.

Man, can you imagine going through a 4th season with Tyrod? what a tragically boring season without hope that would be imo...if that ever happened I would go to Transplant’s house and set a bag of poop on fire on his front porch...and yes, I said poop. Lol 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by JaCrispy

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, JaCrispy said:

Man, can you imagine going through a 4th season with Tyrod? what a tragically boring season without hope that would be imo.

I would literally boycott the season.  Life is too short to willingly torture yourself.

[xRUSHx]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Starting Peterman and post-season talk from Beane indicates to me a qb change will be a priority.  I'll be surprised if Taylor isn't cut or traded.

We all will be but we were all suprised that Tyrod was brought back with a new staff. With the firing of the OC they can now blame the OC and bring him back because hey he is the best we have had, we can win with him. Truth is we can win with ANY backup QB, we won with Peterman Webb against Indy.

Sadly the COT is still out trying to make excuses about Tyrod and bad excuses to keep him to help OBD in the quest to be a team that never finds a franchise worthy QB, one that is truly good enough.

Im with you man thinking it is finally over but I also see it just might not be.

Edited January 21, 2018 by xRUSHx

[Hurricane]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

I would literally boycott the season.  Life is too short to willingly torture yourself.

I could sure as hell get a lot of fishing in on Sundays  ...

[xRUSHx]

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Man, can you imagine going through a 4th season with Tyrod? what a tragically boring season without hope that would be imo...if that ever happened I would go to Transplant’s house and set a bag of poop on fire on his front porch. 

I bet that line in front of his house would be a very long line. We better get a few busses ready on stand by.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Winning records.

Yeah or Nay?

 

Mark Sanchez: 37-35 (.514)

Nick Foles: 20-16 (.556)

 

18 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Man, can you imagine going through a 4th season with Tyrod? what a tragically boring season without hope that would be imo...if that ever happened I would go to Transplant’s house and set a bag of poop on fire on his front porch...and yes, I said poop. Lol 

 

 

[xRUSHx]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Winning records.

Yeah or Nay?

 

Mark Sanchez: 37-35 (.514)

Nick Foles: 20-16 (.556)

 

Backup talent that will not be getting 18 Mill in 2018. Both are much better then Tyrod IMO.

Edited January 21, 2018 by xRUSHx

[Stank_Nasty]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Osweiller has won more than he lost. Then he was “let go”.  

 

He wasn’t good enough.    

 

The defense helped him.   It was not the other way around.  

Again. Comparing a qb that did well for a half a season with a generational defense to one that has played 3 years with an inconsistent defense is honestly just sorta dumb. Seriously. You gotta be better than that. 

 

I get it. You gotta be right. It’s your thing. You grasp at straws to make sure that happens. But come on man. It’s a dumb comparison. 

[xRUSHx]

Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

Again. Comparing a qb that did well for a half a season with a generational defense to one that has played 3 years with an inconsistent defense is honestly just sorta dumb. Seriously. You gotta be better than that. 

 

I get it. You gotta be right. It’s your thing. You grasp at straws to make sure that happens. But come on man. It’s a dumb comparison. 

Dumb is standing up to defend not good enough with the same type of stale excuses during the last staff Tyrod. Keep sipping on a straw of stale while pretending your drinking something that is good enough when we all know it is not. It has a nasty smell it is time to throw it out. 

[Stank_Nasty]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Winning records.

Yeah or Nay?

 

Mark Sanchez: 37-35 (.514)

Nick Foles: 20-16 (.556)

 

Much better examples than your weak broncos one. I’ll Give you that. 

 

 

1 hour ago, xRUSHx said:

Dumb is standing up to defend not good enough with the same type of stale excuses during the last staff Tyrod. Keep sipping on a straw of stale while pretending your drinking something that is good enough when we all know it is not. It has a nasty smell it is time to throw it out. 

Dude. Just becuz I debate your idiotic diatribe on Taylor doesn’t mean I want him back. How many times do I need to say this before you get it? Are you that simple? 

 

You don’t say smart things. You blabbed on and on about how they had no chance with Taylor if he started after the colts game and then they went to the playoffs. You just say dramatic dumb things. They get debated by people that have some sense and then you label them “COT”... which is soooo douchey by the way. Do people not see how lame that saying is? 

 

I can can not be satisfied with the qb and want more while still debating how ridiculous your takes are. Try and wrap your head around that. 

1 hour ago, xRUSHx said:

Backup talent that will not be getting 18 Mill in 2018. Both are much better then Tyrod IMO.

Lolololol. I think I was just talking about the dumb things you say about Taylor and then you totally prove me right by saying Sanchez is a better qb. 

 

This is CLASSIC xrush right here! PERFECT!!!  Hahahaha. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[Thurman#1]

On 1/20/2018 at 7:50 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I thought we were all in agreement as a fanbase that the OC and the WR personnel were awful?   

 

You expected Tyrod to GREATLY IMPROVE in that situation?

 

Really?

 

Why didn't McCoy GREATLY IMPROVE then?   Is he a bum because his play dropped off so dramatically?

 

There is just a lot of nonsensical reasoning in the anti-Tyrod rationale.

 

Long term you need a franchise QB to be competitive year-in and year-out for a decade.......that's been the case for decades now........but what's going on with the anti-Tyrod crusade is just "anybody but"  scapegoating.

 

Nick Foles, Case Keenum and Blake Bortles have all been in the "he will never be able to win" category VERY recently.    Wise-up folks.

 

Wanting to get better at a position doesn't mean you have to create a narrative in your mind that the QB you want to replace is incompetent.

 

 

 

You folks keep throwing up the Foles/Keenum/Bortles argument despite the fact that it pretty weak.

 

If Tyrod had ever developed to the point that he was playing like Keenum has this year he'd have the Bills desperate to sign him to a long-term contract at well over $20 mill a year. But he hasn't come anywhere close, despite the fact that Tyrod's been in the league seven years and started more games than Keenum. Keenum is playing really well. Tyrod is, well, not.

 

Bortles is probably a bit better than Tyrod this year, but in the same ballpark. He's the best argument for the fact that you can get to a conference game at least once with a QB who's not real great.  But this is only his fourth year. That's the time of your career when you often see guys making major improvements. Bortles has absolutely gotten better, and could still get a bunch better.

 

But Foles isn't the reason that team is in the conference championship game. If they hadn't given up major pick value in their move up to get Wentz, they wouldn't be here today. Philly's excellent QB play this year has been 90% Wentz and 10% Foles. Foles is the backup.

 

If you throw Tyrod in with the Foles/Keenum/Bortles group, Tyrod has the most time in the league. That's the problem. We know who he is.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Thurman#1

[xRUSHx]

4 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Much better examples than your weak broncos one. I’ll Give you that. 

 

 

Dude. Just becuz I debate your idiotic diatribe on tailor doesn’t mean I want him back. How many times do I need to say this before you get it? Are you that simple? 

 

You don’t say smart things. You blabbed on and on about how they had no chance with Taylor if he started after the colts game and then they went to the playoffs. You just say dramatic dumb things. They get debated by people that have some sense and then you label them “COT”... which is soooo douchey by the way. Do people not see how lame that saying is? 

 

I can can not be satisfied with the qb and want more while still debating how ridiculous your takes are. Try and wrap your head around that. 

It is simple to see for most that they did not win because of Tyrod, they won in spite of him. Yes it is that simple.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

It is simple to see for most that they did not win because of Tyrod, they won in spite of him. Yes it is that simple.

Right. Becuz the defense was so consisten this year and Taylor played awful during the 5-2 start.

 

you are a different sort of creature man. Impressive. 

 

I dont even like taking up for Taylor anymore becuz I’m just sooo over him but you are just so awful. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Right. Let’s use the Broncos title team as an example. Literally one of the best defenses of the last 10-15 years. Not to mention putting 2 qb’s that played half a season of work against 3 full years is really flawed and just silly. I wouldn’t expect anything different though becuz you always twist things in the name of being right..... what a bad comparison. Seriously. 

 

You can nit pick up exceptions all you want but as a general rule qb’s that win more than they lose over a span(NOT A HALF SEASON WITH AN ALL WORLD DEFENSE) aren’t bad qb’s. 

 

And i I have no problems cutting bait. Let’s just talk with some sense about the guy. And please stop using bad comparisons to prove points. 

first your criteria was winning more games than losing. now you want to add criteria and move the goal posts. this is a circle jerk? 

 

 

35 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Man, can you imagine going through a 4th season with Tyrod? what a tragically boring season without hope that would be imo...if that ever happened I would go to Transplant’s house and set a bag of poop on fire on his front porch...and yes, I said poop. Lol 

 

i'll be your sponsor.

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Foxx

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, Foxx said:

first your criteria was winning more games than losing. now you want to add criteria and move the goal posts. this is a circle jerk? 

Is comparing a half a season to 3 years reasonable or not? Don’t be difficult just for the sake of it. You know the answer. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

28 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Again. Comparing a qb that did well for a half a season with a generational defense to one that has played 3 years with an inconsistent defense is honestly just sorta dumb. Seriously. You gotta be better than that. 

 

I get it. You gotta be right. It’s your thing. You grasp at straws to make sure that happens. But come on man. It’s a dumb comparison. 

“half a season”.

 

Are you saying it was his fault he was benched with a winning record? 

 

The obvious answer is staring right at  you.   

The winning record did not matter.   

 

He was not th answer just like TT is not the answer. 

[Thurman#1]

57 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Right. Becuz the defense was so consisten this year and Taylor played awful during the 5-2 start.

 

you are a different sort of creature man. Impressive. 

 

 

This is the problem with arguing for Tyrod, Stank. You can't really claim he played well, so you have to use sarcasm like "Taylor played awful during the 5-2 start," and hope nobody notices you haven't said much.

 

During the first seven games Tyrod had a 63.8 completion percentage, a 6.8 YPC and a passer rating of 91.43. And threw for 206 yards per game and had a TD:INT ratio of 7:2. If that looks familiar it's because that's pretty much what he did all year with around 20 extra yards per game because he threw it a bit more.

 

And it ain't exactly like the passing defenses we were up against was a Murderer's Row type of group. We played the Jets, Carolina, Denver, Atlanta, Cincy, Tampa Bay and Oakland during those first seven games you mentioned. They managed to rank this way, respectively, in defensive passer rating:  19th, 24th, 20th, 21st, 13th, 27th and 30th The best was 13th. Every other one was 19th or worse. Five out of seven in the twenties or thirties. 

 

That was a pretty weak group and Tyrod performed just about as well as he did the rest of the year ... below average but not all that far below. Not throwing INTs, but also not producing much.

 

People got excited about the 5-2 start, but it was much more about our opponents averaging 16.4 PPG (would've ranked us 2nd in the NFL this year) during that stretch than it was about us averaging 21.8 PPG (would've put us 16th).

 

 

 

I get that you're willing to move on, but you're still trying to say more for Tyrod than can be reasonably backed up. The guy's going to be a career backup or desperation starter for a year or two around the league before his teams replace him. 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Stank_Nasty]

18 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

This is the problem with arguing for Tyrod, Stank. You can't really claim he played well, so you have to use sarcasm like "Taylor played awful during the 5-2 start," and hope nobody notices you haven't said much.

 

During the first seven games Tyrod had a 63.8 completion percentage, a 6.8 YPC and a passer rating of 91.43. And threw for 206 yards per game and had a TD:INT ratio of 7:2. If that looks familiar it's because that's pretty much what he did all year with around 20 extra yards per game because he threw it a bit more.

 

And it ain't exactly like the passing defenses we were up against was a Murderer's Row type of group. We played the Jets, Carolina, Denver, Atlanta, Cincy, Tampa Bay and Oakland during those first seven games you mentioned. They managed to rank this way, respectively, in defensive passer rating:  19th, 24th, 20th, 21st, 13th, 27th and 30th The best was 13th. Every other one was 19th or worse. Five out of seven in the twenties or thirties. 

 

That was a pretty weak group and Tyrod performed just about as well as he did the rest of the year ... below average but not all that far below. Not throwing INTs, but also not producing much.

 

 

 

I get that you're willing to move on, but you're still trying to say more for Tyrod than can be reasonably backed up. The guy's going to be a career backup or desperation starter for a year or two around the league before his teams replace him. 

 

 I don’t think the team as a whole was very good this year offense or defense. The only thing that kept them afloat was taking the ball away and not giving it away. And I think Tyrod was directly involved in that and that’s basically the only thing I give him a lot of credit for. 

 

I just can’t believe the amount of flack around here for a guy than won more than he lost over 3 years and ultimately made the postseason while not having consistent weapons or defense. It’s mind blowing to me..... and now somebody like xrush or that awful teddy character are gonna translate that into me saying I think he’s the franchise for the next 5 years. 

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

 I don’t think the team as a whole was very good this year offense or defense. The only thing that kept them afloat was taking the ball away and not giving it away. And I think Tyrod was directly involved in that and that’s basically the only thing I give him a lot of credit for. 

 

I just can’t believe the amount of flack around here for a guy than won more than he lost over 3 years and ultimately made the postseason while not having consistent weapons or defense. It’s mind blowing to me..... and now somebody like xrush or that awful teddy character are gonna translate that into me saying I think he’s the franchise for the next 5 years. 

 

 

Again, it wasn't Tyrod who won or lost. Win-loss is a team stat. It just is. Nor did Tyrod "ultimately made the postseason." Again, that would be the Buffalo Bills.

 

And while the defense was really inconsistent and not great, they were far better than the offense. They had that one absolutely awful three-game stretch in the middle of the season against the Jets, Saints and Chargers. But for the rest of the year they were pretty good. Turnovers were a part of that but far from all of it. The defense was pretty solid. The offense was OK and most of that was the run game.

 

The defense was 4th in yards (HELLO!!!) this year and 11th in points.

 

The offense was 29th in yards and 22nd in scoring. And the run game gets the lion's share of that.

 

Tyrod deserves a ton of flack. Again, I get it that you understand we are moving on and for good reason. But you're still giving Tyrod more credit than he deserves.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

8 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

 I don’t think the team as a whole was very good this year offense or defense. The only thing that kept them afloat was taking the ball away and not giving it away. And I think Tyrod was directly involved in that and that’s basically the only thing I give him a lot of credit for. 

 

I just can’t believe the amount of flack around here for a guy than won more than he lost over 3 years and ultimately made the postseason while not having consistent weapons or defense. It’s mind blowing to me..... and now somebody like xrush or that awful teddy character are gonna translate that into me saying I think he’s the franchise for the next 5 years. 

Tyrod gets "flack" because there are some here who have consistently argued that he was better than what he was.  Which is a low end starter.  That scares a lot of fans, because if McD and Beane hold that same opinion, they may not be as aggressive in actually attaining the QB of the future.  This team should be operating like TT is not an option and there are zero QB's on the roster worth anything at all.  Had they acted like that in the first place, Deshaun Watson would be our new on-his-way-to-franchise QB already, and TT would be a footnote.

 

This team has lacked The Guy since Kelly.  McD already showed he was willing to punt on a QB and roll with Tyrod last season.  If he does that again, I'll pull my !@#$ing hair out.

[Stank_Nasty]

21 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Again, it wasn't Tyrod who won or lost. Win-loss is a team stat. It just is. Nor did Tyrod "ultimately made the postseason." Again, that would be the Buffalo Bills.

 

And while the defense was really inconsistent and not great, they were far better than the offense. They had that one absolutely awful three-game stretch in the middle of the season against the Jets, Saints and Chargers. But for the rest of the year they were pretty good. Turnovers were a part of that but far from all of it. The defense was pretty solid. The offense was OK and most of that was the run game.

 

The defense was 4th in yards (HELLO!!!) this year and 11th in points.

 

The offense was 29th in yards and 22nd in scoring. And the run game gets the lion's share of that.

 

Tyrod deserves a ton of flack. Again, I get it that you understand we are moving on and for good reason. But you're still giving Tyrod more credit than he deserves.

 

 

I have absolutely no idea where you got those defensive numbers from. those rankings you just mentioned are wildly inaccurate. he defense was 26th(NOT 4TH) in total yds allowed and 18th in points against. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

2 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Man, can you imagine going through a 4th season with Tyrod? what a tragically boring season without hope that would be imo...if that ever happened I would go to Transplant’s house and set a bag of poop on fire on his front porch...and yes, I said poop. Lol 

 

 

 

I certainly hope not. seems some don't want to admit or even understand that taylor was a big part of the offense failing. oh sure, he had no wr's and the OC stunk so a new OC is hired and they'll likely bring in another couple wr's to go with KB and all off a sudden taylor will step up his game and be the primary reason they win games.

 

has anyone considered taylors wonderlic score and how he is limited in reading a defense or absorbing the whole playbook?

 

take a peek at this list and tell me who has the lowest score.

 

How Smart Is Your Team's QB? Home / How Smart Is Your Team’s QB?

 

taylor has a good work ethic. good guy, good team mate, likable and professional but he is not very smart and the new OC will not be dumbing down any playbook for him.

 

no crisp, I don't believe we'll be seeing taylor under center in the upcoming season and that in itself should give most fans hope going forward. I say most because there are those few as seen in this thread that just can not seem to let go and will argue tooth and nail that he deserves to be the bills starting QB.

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by DaBillsFanSince1973

[ColoradoBills]

13 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Holy crap those are the weirdest most narrow parameters I’ve ever friggin seen as a “metric”!!!

 

I bet this has happened maybe once or twice with Buffalo from 2015-2016 with a one score game and enough realistic time under 2 minutes to drive down the field.

 

 

Sheesh Transplant, my "metric" was a bit of a joke.  Why so serious bro?

If you want I can expand my "metric" to:

 

I want a QB who can have more than 10% chance of coming back 4 point anytime in the 4th quarter.

You have to admit that TT is not known for his comebacks, you just got to.

 

I have said over and over that I was a TT supporter his 1st year and that I gave him the benefit of the doubt his 2nd year.

He had to prove (to me) this year that he could be a reliable mid level NFL QB.

In my opinion he has not proven that this past year.

I do not "hate" the man and wish him well in whatever role he finds himself in the future.

 

I will state that I believe Tyrod needs to move on.

 

I have read your posts about keeping TT next year and drafting a young QB.

If that is true why are you so entrenched in keeping him for 16 more games max?

Are you FOR extending TT's contract? 

 

Unless you are already planning to defend TT if he stayed and try to prove he is better than whoever we draft?

[GreggTX]

OK, you don't need a franchise QB to win the SB, but your chances are doubled or more if you do, so let's stop all the nonsense about wknning it all with an avg QB like TT or Cousins because you have a better chance of being hit by lightning.

[Matt_In_NH]

To consistently compete you need a great qb.   List the teams over the last couple decades who have lots of playoff appearances and then point out which ones have an average qb.   

 

You can can make a run here or there with an average guy but to consistently compete late on the playoffs requires a franchise qb.   Nonsense is anyone who would dispute that.  

[Tatonka68]

How many Superbowl teams had "franchise" QB's and how many didn't. How many of those non franchise QBteams went to multiple Superbowls. Not Tampa, Baltimore, Chicago.

[KW95 - JA17]

After 3 quarters in Pats game Bortles has 230 yards passing.  Tyrod would still be 95 or so.

[Beast]

If anything it should teach us to be patient with a high draft choice at QB.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, KW95 said:

After 3 quarters in Pats game Bortles has 230 yards passing.  Tyrod would still be 95 or so.

Bortles comes to play when he's going head to head against Brady.  Has Tyrod thrown a TD against NE in his career?

[Drifter]

This weekend shows you need an elite QB to go to the Super Bowl. How'd that #1 defense hold up?

 

[Teddy KGB]

5 minutes ago, Drifter said:

This weekend shows you need an elite QB to go to the Super Bowl. How'd that #1 defense hold up?

 

 

This and Bortles still played better than Tyrod again.       

 

More #cot myths debunked 

[Fadingpain]

11 minutes ago, Drifter said:

This weekend shows you need an elite QB to go to the Super Bowl. How'd that #1 defense hold up?

 

Actually pretty damned well....if they had a bit more at the QB position themselves they may have had enough to pull it off.

 

QB = #1 concern.

 

All other concerns on team = distant #2, etc.

 

 

[Bing Bong]

this provs you need Tom Brady, not a "great QB", to win you bunch of numbnuts

[transplantbillsfan]

 So friggin funny how absolutely seriously some of you are taking this thread.

 

Now let's go get the next Tom Brady this offseason and win some damn Super Bowls!!!  

 

Gotta be easy, right?  

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 So friggin funny how absolutely seriously some of you are taking this thread.

 

Now let's go get the next Tom Brady this offseason and win some damn Super Bowls!!!  

 

Gotta be easy, right?  

Does Tyrod Taylor on the 2017 Jags win the AFCCG AND pass for >117 yards?  

 

I won't post for a week if I lose!

[Bing Bong]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Again, it wasn't Tyrod who won or lost. Win-loss is a team stat. It just is. Nor did Tyrod "ultimately made the postseason." Again, that would be the Buffalo Bills.

 

His point is the offense was so bad man. So bad. if it's a team sport, and Tyrod's supporting cast is terrible (less Shady), than who's to credit?? Defense and that quarterback that didn't lose the Chargers game.

 

The Chargers game shows us when the game isn't a "team sport"

[Tatonka68]

If the Jags had a Franchise QB, they could of beaten the Patriots. The Bills need one. Twenty years of waiting, since Kelly retired, is enough.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Watching the games it just shows  how inadequate TT is at QB.  

Edited January 22, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan