Stank_Nasty Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 am I the only one that thinks a minor 5 yd facemask should be brought back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Almighty Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Remember when the league had the 5 yard facemask and the 15 yard facemask and the refs couldn't handle it? That's why this would never work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Because it would destroy the long ball. Teams would coach DBs to tackle on long passes before the ball gets there if they are beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seregil42 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Only change I would make is to make PI challengeable. Otherwise, the rule is fine as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Answer: Players, coaches and owners don't seem to want to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 54 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: I don't like that PI is a subjective thing. A little pushing and shoving is okay but a lot gets you a flag. The ref's judgment makes all the difference. They need it make it more black and white. Any non-incidental contact before the ball on either player should be a penalty. How does that make it less subjective? It's still up to the human official to determine who made the contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 55 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: Because it would destroy the long ball. Teams would coach DBs to tackle on long passes before the ball gets there if they are beat. Plenty of arguments against this throughout the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 There are times when PI as a spot foul seems to be incredible overkill, but there are other times where a DB, who is beaten on a sure touchdown pass, could just go ahead and tackle the receiver with the ball in the air. From a defensive standpoint, that is a bargain price to have to pay on a 50 yard pass play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 16 hours ago, bills6969 said: They should institute 2 levels of PI, both with different penalties. A PI 1 is just your basic strong contact, no intention of taking the WR out - 15 yards penalty. A PI 2 is blatant and intentional, purposely trying to take out the WR so he cant make the catch - spot foul Great... Requiring more complex discretion by officials. They can't handle what they have now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 16 hours ago, bills6969 said: They should institute 2 levels of PI, both with different penalties. A PI 1 is just your basic strong contact, no intention of taking the WR out - 15 yards penalty. A PI 2 is blatant and intentional, purposely trying to take out the WR so he cant make the catch - spot foul Spot foul + 15 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 10 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: This seems to have never been an issue in college, why do you all think it would be dramatically different in the pros? WR's run wide open in college. Defenders are better, faster, smarter, etc in the NFL. 1 hour ago, Rubes said: Plenty of arguments against this throughout the thread. And they are wrong. PI spot foul is fine the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Rubes said: Plenty of arguments against this throughout the thread. And I disagree with them, which is why I posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: And I disagree with them, which is why I posted Great, so your response to arguments against your position is just to state your position again? Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rubes said: Great, so your response to arguments against your position is just to state your position again? Got it. And your purpose for posting is what exactly? To tell me my fun is wrong? It's a message board, I don't have to write a 40 paragraph response when a sentence will suffice. If you actually wanted someone to explain their position further, perhaps "other people have said no, while you say yes" isn't a clear and concise way to simply say "why did you say that?" Edited January 16, 2018 by ndirish1978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 17 hours ago, NoSaint said: What stops the saints safety from just tackling the receiver before the ball gets there yesterday (besides his inability to tackle) if it’s a 15 yarder instead of spot? I thought the game can't end on a defensive penalty? They would get 15 yards plus a free play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said: I thought the game can't end on a defensive penalty? They would get 15 yards plus a free play... If a 15 yard penalty negatively affects the game even once it's not worth it. The league is all about creating highlight moments and promoting scoring, making the rules easier for the defense isn't going to help either of those aims. Would you rather see a crazy play like that game-winner or a series of 15 yard penalties until the ball gets overthrown? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I DO see all the problems with it, but why does it seem to be fine in college? (Sorry if I missed this answer already.) 7 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: If a 15 yard penalty negatively affects the game even once it's not worth it. The league is all about creating highlight moments and promoting scoring, making the rules easier for the defense isn't going to help either of those aims. Would you rather see a crazy play like that game-winner or a series of 15 yard penalties until the ball gets overthrown? I understand why the league likes it....and THAT is it. No call can affect a game more than those long PI calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Augie said: I DO see all the problems with it, but why does it seem to be fine in college? (Sorry if I missed this answer already.) I understand why the league likes it....and THAT is it. No call can affect a game more than those long PI calls. For several reasons: 1- CBs have to show they can cover in order to get looked at by the pros. A ton of PI calls against you, even if it's by design, doesn't help you get looked at for playing at the next level. If you're getting those PI calls it would tend to indicate you're too slow to actually cover down the field. College programs' recruiting is based on getting players to the next level, so if you're the first team or one of only a few teams doing this, it puts your players at a disadvantage and would affect recruiting. Look at how maligned players are who play in spread systems. The NFL does not like projecting more than it has to. If you have a kid from school A who uses the rule to their advantage and looks good but has a ton of PI calls, you'd have to project that they can cover downfield, because they've been coaching to tackle on long pass plays. 2 - There ARE plenty of plays in a college season where a badly beat player just grabs a handful of jersey. It doesn't happen every game, but it happens often enough. Would YOU like to be the guy admitting you got scorched and had to grab a jersey to save a play? It may be a smart move, but it highlights you negatively in regards to skill. 3 - Another point not related to the college game itself is we see a lot of rules in the NFL that seem to be harsher than their NCAA counterparts. A large part of this is the "prestige" of making it to the next level. Why don't we just have guys get one foot inbounds for a catch in the NFL? Because they want us to believe that the people at the next level are skilled enough that they can make things harder on them. This is a rule designed to show how much better DBs are in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Rubes said: I know this has certainly come up in the past, but I'm old as !@#$ and I can't remember any of the arguments for or against it. But watching these last few weeks of games got me thinking about this again, as several critical defensive PI calls have come up that dramatically swung the tide in favor of the offense. I hate that defensive PI is a spot foul—obviously when it happens when the Bills are on defense, but also even when the Bills get a call like that on offense, because it just seems like such a cheap way to get a ton of yards. Especially when it happens in the end zone and the ball is placed at the 1. I really despise that. And I don't like that this has actually become part of offensive strategy, to throw it up and look for that possibility. Any time there is a defensive penalty like unnecessary roughness that comes with 15 yards and an automatic first down, it's pretty great if you're on offense and hurts bad if you're on defense, no matter where the ball is or the situation. Enough with the spot foul on defensive PI. Make it 15 yards and an automatic first down. That's painful enough for a defense. Hell, offensive PI is only 10 yards. What if they create two levels of PI? Incidental and Flagrant? I'm certain NFL officials will have no trouble differentiating between the two. Edited January 16, 2018 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 18 hours ago, bills6969 said: They should institute 2 levels of PI, both with different penalties. A PI 1 is just your basic strong contact, no intention of taking the WR out - 15 yards penalty. A PI 2 is blatant and intentional, purposely trying to take out the WR so he cant make the catch - spot foul This is basically what defensive holding/ PI is already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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