What's the price to move up and get our guy?

[aristocrat]

whats the price for not moving up and getting your guy?

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, ddaryl said:

 

This makes little sense because you are not siging Cousins to anything less than a 4 year $100 million deal.. Are you going to sit Rudolph for 3 or 4 years ??? What was the point of that 1st rd pick if he is not going to see the field but as a backup. You don't use 1st rd picks on backups

 

You can not pay a FA QB that much money and then draft his replacement early because with the cap hit dead money ramifications it would be a waste. You either commit to Cousins fully and draft players to surround him in the 1st few rounds and maybe pick up a 4th rd QB to compete with Peterman to see who is better or you pick up a much cheaper FA QB and draft Rudolph or someother QB with the intention of starting him the next year with little cap ramifications from the vet we do sign

 

maybe you can trade your vet QB .. but the asking price for Cousins will make him hard to trade IMO

 

Fix the position. Best way to do that is sign Cousins take a QB in the first. He gets his 5th year option and big deal if he sits a bit. Ask Rodgers how that worked out. 

 

No position on the football field means more or even close to QB

Edited January 15, 2018 by MAJBobby

[ProcessTheTrust]

Just now, aristocrat said:

whats the price for not moving up and getting your guy?

Comment of the day!!!

[Paulus]

It is important to point out that the fifth year option for a first round pick is a change which has made first round picks more valuable than before. I mean, the last pick in the first round is worth more than the old points chart would indicate when valuing it against the first pick of the second round. 

 

That said, both firsts and the remaining third to move up to 4.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Paulus

[ddaryl]

19 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Fix the position. Best way to do that is sign Cousins take a QB in the first. He gets his 5th year option and big deal if he sits a bit. Ask Rodgers how that worked out. 

 

No position on the football field means more or even close to QB

 

Favre wasn't an expensive FA pickup. He was towards the end of his contract with GB, and GB was preparing for his replacement at that time. There was little dead money to worry about there

 

No team is going to commit the amount of money it would take to land the top FA QB. Figure in signing bonus and and guarenteed money.. The math don't support a 1st round drafted QB just to be a  3 to 4 year rider of the pine.  Rogers was groomed but he was not groomed behind an expensive FA QB that would create a ton of dead money. Cousins is way too expensive of an option to make drafting a 1st rd QB a wise idea.

 

Possible scenario would be to get Smith on the cheap from KC and then draft a 1st rd QB in this scenario.. We can't have a long term contract and large dead money if we are going to draft a 1st rd QB

 

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by ddaryl

[TigerJ]

7 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Broncos and Browns the target in the top 5.

 

Both 2018 1st's

1 of our 2018 2nd's

2019 1st

Tyrod Taylor

 

If you want to include Tyrod in a trade, the other team my say, "I'ttle cost you another second if you want us to take Tyrod off your hands.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

If you want to include Tyrod in a trade, the other team my say, "I'ttle cost you another second if you want us to take Tyrod off your hands.

I think both of those teams will want Taylor and ask for him in a trade. We don't need a team to take him we can just cut him, but there are teams that would gladly start Taylor next year. Trade will have to happen before his bonus kicks in, probably after or during the combine. 

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

sign Kirk Cousins stay put at 21/22 and draft Mason Rudolph 

I think this is exactly what's going to happen. I just don't want to break the bank for Cousins. I think Mason will be there at 21. Draft Vea 22.

[Logic]

The question I would ask again and again to the "don't trade picks to move up, its too expensive!" crowd is this:

If not now, when? If not in year that is heralded as one of the best QB classes in recent memory, and in which the Bills have two 1sts and two 2nds and a glaring need at QB and a HC/OC/GM combo in their first full offseason together...then when? What better opportunity will the Bills ever have to secure a potential franchise QB? Again, if McDermott is as good as we all think and hope, the Bills won't be picking high enough to get a top guy most years. 

I say if you believe in one of the QBs in this draft, move heaven and earth to get him. Enough band-aids, also-rans, and mediocrity. 

[Plano]

If you can get Mayfield when we pick, you pull the trigger.

[Lfod]

11 minutes ago, Logic said:

The question I would ask again and again to the "don't trade picks to move up, its too expensive!" crowd is this:

If not now, when? If not in year that is heralded as one of the best QB classes in recent memory, and in which the Bills have two 1sts and two 2nds and a glaring need at QB and a HC/OC/GM combo in their first full offseason together...then when? What better opportunity will the Bills ever have to secure a potential franchise QB? Again, if McDermott is as good as we all think and hope, the Bills won't be picking high enough to get a top guy most years. 

I say if you believe in one of the QBs in this draft, move heaven and earth to get him. Enough band-aids, also-rans, and mediocrity. 

I think it can be a good conversation if you actually had the potential to move into the 1 and 2 spots. I would rather trade to move into the 1 or 2 spots next year then settle for less this year.

 

Rushing things is how you make mistakes. You drive fast you get to your destination faster. You also potentially wreck. I'd rather them make the smart move over a desperate gamble for something not in that 1 or 2 sweet spot.

 

I'm sorry I just think it's go big or go home. I'm not in favor in making a splash and throwing around picks  for scraps after everyone else got to pick off the plate first.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Lfod

[LABILLBACKER]

14 minutes ago, Plano said:

If you can get Mayfield when we pick, you pull the trigger.

The Bronco coaching staff today requested that Mayfield be put on their Senior Bowl North squad. Clearly they are very interested in Baker @ 5. Are the Bills willing to move up for Jackson, Allen or Rudolph? Probably not!

[Prickly Pete]

7 hours ago, ProcessTheTrust said:

What about the Colts at #3? Obviously we miss out on Darnold and Rosen top 2, but if we really have our sights set on Mayfield or Allen, I'm guessing the Colts would love a basket of picks to re-tool?

 

If they give up "Both 2018 1st's, 1 of our 2018 2nd's, 2019 1st, and Tyrod Taylor", for Mayfield I will lose my mind. The only 2 guys they should even consider giving up half of that for, are Darnold or Rosen.

[BillsfanAZ]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I have absolutely no problem giving up a king's ransom in draft picks IF the Bills believe there is a franchise changing signal caller available. Why? Well, if not this year, then when? This is a potentially historically great quarterback draft and the Bills have more draft capital this year than they're likely to have most years. If McDermott is the coach we all think and hope he is, the Bills won't be picking any higher than 16th most years. So again I ask, if not this year, with all our capital and such a great QB class, then when?

Yes, giving up a lot of picks will temporarily hamstring their ability to add quality players around said QB. But the cupboard isn't bare as it is. Let's say they add a decent veteran WR through free agency. Rookie QB would have Benjamin, vet WR X, Jones, Thompson at WR, Clay and O'Leary at TE, and Shady at HB. Not too shabby. Defensively, the Bills obviously need talent. Personally, though, I'd rather get a potential franchise QB in place first. I look at it like this: This year, with the talent already on hand on defense, the Bills went 9-7 and made the playoffs. Add a legitimate quarterback (and OC) to the team and you're hopefully looking at a significant improvement.

Bottom line for me? This whole "build up the roster, fill all the other holes, we can't afford a QB!" argument doesn't hold water for me any more. We have seen the Bills field a pretty good all-around team numerous times throughout the drought. We've had good defenses, good running games, good receivers...and yet we've still failed to be consistent contenders. One of the big reasons why? No quality, consistent QB play since Kelly retired. Even recently, toward the end of Whaley's tenure, we had a good all around roster. No QB, though, and look how that all ended up. Let's end this constant carousel of mediocrity and take care of the most important position in the sport once and for all, whatever the cost. With the salary cap going up every year, we'll be able to add quality pieces through free agency and again in the next few years' drafts. But THIS year? The first full year of our new coach/GM's tenure, and with a possibly historically great QB, and with all this capital...let's go get our guy. Enough is enough.

Send our two 1sts and a 2nd this year, a 1st and 3rd next year, and get it done. Bills would still have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and two 5ths this year. They would still have a 2nd, 4th, 5th, etc next year. And this is BEFORE potentially adding more draft capital via trading of Glenn, Taylor, maybe Lawson.

The Bills are not going to be able to move up to pick Darnold or Rosen. Since the Browns and Giants are picking. Do you realize how much draft capital you are giving up to move up to get the 4th or 5th best QB that may or may not be able to help this team 3 yrs down the road?  The Bills have a lot of holes to fill and need depth through the draft

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, Paulus said:

It is important to point out that the fifth year option for a first round pick is a change which has made first round picks more valuable than before. I mean, the last pick in the first round is worth more than the old points chart would indicate when valuing it against the first pick of the second round. 

 

That said, both firsts and the remaining third to move up to 4.

I doubt that will get you to 4 and you very well could be picking qb #3.

[starrymessenger]

I don't know whether the Bills will have the opportunity or the inclination to move up for a QB, but I do think there are a few who are worth burning draft capital to get. Foremost among them is Lamar Jackson. Athletically he is as much a generational talent as Barkely is. In that sense these two guys stand apart as unique in this draft. Jackson is Michael Vick. I know we have had our fill of "running QBs" but I think we would feel quite differently about it if Tyrod had arm talent. Jackson has that (though of course it needs some development and refinement i.e. he's not Josh Rosen in that regard). You think D. Watson looked good? Watch out for Lamar. Like Rosen he needs to fill out his frame, especially if he's going to make plays with his feet, but both Vick and Tyrod have shown that a "running QB" can actually be durable enuf. I expect Jackson to be a big draft riser over the next couple of months who will be coveted by GMs so I'm not expecting to get him. 

My risk/reward adjusted QB evaluation, which I admit is out of sync with where the thinking generally is at the moment is:

 

#1 Lamar Jackson

#2 Josh Rosen

#3 Baker Mayfield 

#4 Mason Rudolph

#5 Josh Allen

#6 Sam Darnold

 

I would be comfortable moving up for any of the top 3 in my list.

[Paulus]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

I doubt that will get you to 4 and you very well could be picking qb #3.

Well, then I wouldn't move to 4, if the Browns wanted more. You're right, it most likely would be the #3 qb in the draft. Nice year to draft a QB high, though. 

 

The only thing I, PERSONALLY, might do is pay a lot more to trade for Darnold @ #1 overall. 

 

What would it take to move Cleveland off Darnold, and have them take, a different QB at 4?

 

I guess, it'd take at least 3 #1's and at least 1 #2. I would do that for Darnold, though.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Paulus

[Logic]

1 hour ago, BillsfanAZ said:

The Bills are not going to be able to move up to pick Darnold or Rosen. Since the Browns and Giants are picking. Do you realize how much draft capital you are giving up to move up to get the 4th or 5th best QB that may or may not be able to help this team 3 yrs down the road?  The Bills have a lot of holes to fill and need depth through the draft

The bolded is nothing more than conjecture. The Giants are in year one of a new GM's tenure and very well may be willing to roll with Eli and trade down for more draft picks. The Browns, meanwhile, also pick at 4 and are rumored to like Josh Allen best. Simply saying we definitely won't be able to get one of the top two is pure speculation. Besides, maybe the apple of the Bills' eye is Mayfield or Allen or Jackson, and they need only to get into the top 7 or 8, which seems very doable.

As for the second bolded part: many teams in the NFL have holes. It's a never-ending thing. Sometimes you finally DO get a roster all the way built up, but if you don't have a QB to go along with said roster, you wind up 8-8, as the Bills and their all-around-good roster in Whaley's last couple years can attest. You know what's a really big hole for the Bills and has been for 22 years? Quarterback. It also happens to be the most important position in the game.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Logic

[PrimeTime101]

There is more logic in trading in the draft when you have to give up a future #1 pick and I will give you some examples.

 

1. Do you have a QB like say an Alex Smith that can work with the kid?

2. Is the QB an immediate starting QB and if so then are you 100% comfortable with trainers and mentors that will be

around him to succeed?

3. Does a GM want to stake his rep by giving away so many draft picks to make this move?

4. Can you plug all your holes in FA and in late second round draft on up to fill this roster?

5. Last but not least are you 100% sure with GM and staff that this guy is a winner?

 

IF any of these questions are no and with this GM, my guess is that 3-4 is a no and we don't even make this move.

 

My personal feelings is.. IF we move all on a QB early in draft WOO HOO.. Then pray he works out. if we move up a couple

of spots to secure 4th or 5th best QB then still a... WOO HOO! cause by moving up just a little we will still have a ton of holes

we can fill with what we have left.

 

As a Bills fan and a believer in the system I will support whatever there decision on this is.. This year for me they get a pass.

 

thoughts?

[OldTimer1960]

Both 1sts and the Bills second would be enough to have a conversation about moving to 4, BUT there will be competition to move up for a QB, so the price would likely be considerably higher than that.  

 

Beyond Rosen and Darnold, I wouldn’t want to give away that much any of the remaining QB prospects.

 

i would consider 21 plus a second to move into the teens if they like a QB that is still available after the top 10.  That package might get them to about pick 15.