If Taylor finishes season strong, do we build around him/Dennison?

[Big Turk]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Much like the Bills in 2015 and 2016, Cousins and the Washington O had to battle to overcome mediocre at best defensive play. The difference has been that Washington's O was predicated on the Pass, vs Buffalo's on the Run.

 

2015 DVOA:

Washington O - 12th

Washington Pass O - 6th

Washington Run O - 32nd

Washington D - 21st

Buffalo O - 9th

Buffalo Pass O - 12th

Buffalo Run O - 2nd

Buffalo D - 24th

 

2016 DVOA:

Washington O - 5th

Washington Pass O - 5th

Washington Run O - 4th

Washington D - 25th

Buffalo O - 10th

Buffalo Pass O - 18th

Buffalo Run O - 1st

Buffalo D - 27th

 

As a franchise QB you have to be able to overcome some of the inherent deficiencies on a roster that YOU as the QB have caused by eating up such a large chunk of the salary cap.  If he can't do that, I don't want to pay him like a franchise QB.  Some other team will.  Great.  They are going to have to put a lot more pieces around him that what you shoud have to put around a guy making that kind of money.  It might make sense for a team like Denver to pay him because they have a lot of good defensive pieces around him.

Edited December 19, 2017 by matter2003

[transplantbillsfan]

No, we are not building around Taylor in the sense that the team is going to plan on him as our QB of the future. That doesn't mean that Taylor is going to be gone next year, as much as some may absolutely hate that. He might actually be our starter for another year.

 

 But we're going to draft a QB in the first round of the 2018 draft. It would be nice if we didn't have to trade up for that QB so we can use those other picks on other players, particularly an OL that's going to need to protect our young QB when he finally takes over.

 

But no, unless Taylor takes us to a Super Bowl, don't expect him in Buffalo beyond next year and expect turn us to draft a QB in round 1 in about five months.

[Big Turk]

59 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

He has led the skins to 2 playoff appearances and they were not very good teams.  This year he had no WR and they were setting him up to fail since they didn't want to pay him.

1 playoff appearance...1...stop inflating his numbers.  In a year where the rest of the division finished 7-9, 6-10, 4-12. 

 

Pay more attention to 24-29-1

[kota]

No.

[ndirish1978]

Taylor is like a restrictor valve on the offense. We will never be more than mediocre and will never be clutch on Offense until he's gone. We need someone who can elevate the play of the skills position players, not throw poorly placed completions. TT costs his receivers YAC on virtually every completion with his poor ball placement. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

31 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

As a franchise QB you have to be able to overcome some of the inherent deficiencies on a roster that YOU as the QB have caused by eating up such a large chunk of the salary cap.  If he can't do that, I don't want to pay him like a franchise QB.  Some other team will.  Great.  They are going to have to put a lot more pieces around him that what you shoud have to put around a guy making that kind of money.  It might make sense for a team like Denver to pay him because they have a lot of good defensive pieces around him.

Who exactly is overcoming 25th or worse defenses with any regularity?

[Dadonkadonk]

Bring back TT, draft a QB, and get rid of Dennison

[Big Turk]

Oh lets see...Green Bay...Oakland(last year)...New England...Atlanta...KC...Indy(for a long time under Manning and then Luck)...those teams were all in the 20s for defense...

 

How bout you start holding the QB accountable for winning games which is what he is paid to do in spite of these things when you want to be paid like a franchise QB? 

 

Basically what you are telling me is Orton, Manuel, Lewis, Tuel and Taylor are more effective at QB than Cousins is under similar conditions.  If that's the case why don't we just give Taylor the $25 million then?  We'd win more games with him...I'd bet money on it.  

Edited December 19, 2017 by matter2003

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

We need that Taylor money for FA, a rookie QB that is a pocket passer will learn nothing from Taylor. Taylor actually looks more aggressive in his passing from watching Peterman play. 

 

If McD stays with Taylor next season he could be fired. If he goes with a rookie, Cousins or Bradford it will extend his time as HC.

[PIZ]

I think he could be a QB that could advance you when you get in the playoffs, because he's tough to defend, and would be tough in bad weather (using his feet).  I think though, he is the biggest problem in getting them to the playoffs.  He's too up and down, and is not a good QB.  I want a legit pass throwing QB, not a RB playing QB.  I'm hoping for Cousins or one of the top rookies.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Thai-joints trade value = Plug Nickel 

Edited December 19, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[BuffaloBill]

21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

If the Bills lose Taylor will get the blame no matter what. Jets game is a prime example. 

 

 

And you don’t think that Taylor’s deficiencies were on full display in that game?  No one player wins or loses a game.  However, a low ceiling QB makes it appreciably harder on the other 21.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, ndirish1978 said:

Taylor is like a restrictor valve on the offense. We will never be more than mediocre and will never be clutch on Offense until he's gone. We need someone who can elevate the play of the skills position players, not throw poorly placed completions. TT costs his receivers YAC on virtually every completion with his poor ball placement. 

 

 

The restriction is the receiving corps.

 

More aware organizations..........like the Rams and Eagles.........realized that they could elevate mediocre QB play significantly by upgrading their receiving corps with not just talent but with talent that complements the strengths of their QB.    The Bills did the opposite.

 

Taylor's production when both Watkins and Woods were healthy in Buffalo speaks for itself.

 

He has clear weaknesses but the narrative that he is some kind of Trent Edwards or Kelly Holcomb restrictor valve is complete bullsh*t....he QB'd the team to the most big plays in the entire NFL in both 2015 and 2016.........he is a big play QB and when you give him talent outside the hashes that can't bring down 5% of 50/50 balls you are going to be disappointed.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by BADOLBILZ

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

What would you do?  Back the Brinks truck for Cousins or take Smith at a cheaper cost and build the lines?

I’m on record for Cousins no matter the price and I still think it’s the best course of action.

[Charles Romes]

If he beats the Pats in Foxboro when they are fighting for home field then seals the deal week 17 you hitch your wagon to Tyrod Taylor.   Those are big ifs obviously.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

39 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Oh lets see...Green Bay...Oakland(last year)...New England...Atlanta...KC...Indy(for a long time under Manning and then Luck)...those teams were all in the 20s for defense...

Green Bay's D has been ranked 25th or worse twice since 2008 (2011 & 2013). They made the playoffs both years. In '11 they went 15-1, in '12 they went 8-7-1 (23-8-1 Overall).

New England's D has been ranked 25th or worse once since 2008 (2011). They went 13-3.

Atlanta's D has been ranked 25th or worse 4 times since 2008 (2008, 2013, 2014, and 2016). They made the playoffs 2 of the 4 years. In '08 and '16 they went 11-5, in '13 they went 4-12, and in '14 they went 6-10 (32-32 Overall).

KC's D has been ranked 25th or worse 3 times since 2008 (2008, 2009, 2012). They have not made the playoffs when their D is that bad. In '08 and '12 they went 2-14, and in '09 they went 4-12 (8-40 Overall).

Indy's D has been ranked 25th or worse 3 times since 2008 (2011, 2012, 2016). They made the playoffs one of those 3 years. In '11 they went 2-14, in '12 they went 11-5, and in '16 they went 8-8 (21-27 Overall).

 

I went with '08 because it was when Ryan came into the league. Even the worst of the teams you listed haven't been that bad more often than not, and only 2 of them have winning records when their Defense ranks that low, and 1 breaks even. Nobody is saying Cousins is Brady, Rodgers, or Peyton. That's a complete strawman. But to blame him for Washington's record is silly.

[Teddy KGB]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The restriction is the receiving corps.

 

More aware organizations..........like the Rams and Eagles.........realized that they could elevate mediocre QB play significantly by upgrading their receiving corps with not just talent but with talent that complements the strengths of their QB.    The Bills did the opposite.

 

Taylor's production when both Watkins and Woods were healthy in Buffalo speaks for itself.

 

He has clear weaknesses but the narrative that he is some kind of Trent Edwards or Kelly Holcomb restrictor valve is complete bullsh*t....he QB'd the team to the most big plays in the entire NFL in both 2015 and 2016.........he is a big play QB and when you give him talent outside the hashes that can't bring down 5% of 50/50 balls you are going to be disappointed.

 

 

 

 

Cot til I die! 

 

Wentz Goff Taylor.   Who doesn’t belong ???

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Oh lets see...Green Bay...Oakland(last year)...New England...Atlanta...KC...Indy(for a long time under Manning and then Luck)...those teams were all in the 20s for defense...

 

How bout you start holding the QB accountable for winning games which is what he is paid to do in spite of these things when you want to be paid like a franchise QB? 

 

Basically what you are telling me is Orton, Manuel, Lewis, Tuel and Taylor are more effective at QB than Cousins is under similar conditions.  If that's the case why don't we just give Taylor the $25 million then?  We'd win more games with him...I'd bet money on it.  

 

This illustrates how hard you gotta' work to find a stark comparison.   Rodgers, Brady and Manning are HOF'ers.    That's where you should have ended your list.

 

In the other cases Derek Carr has been terrible this year,   Atlanta averaged 6 wins per season in 13-14-15 with Ryan....KC has been little more than a fringe playoff team and Indy went to hell even with Luck.   Taylor has been a slightly above .500 QB despite being saddled with major issues...........I'm not saying he belongs in the class of Matt Ryan.......but using those guys as examples of how lacking Taylor is doesn't help your argument.    

[ndirish1978]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The restriction is the receiving corps.

 

More aware organizations..........like the Rams and Eagles.........realized that they could elevate mediocre QB play significantly by upgrading their receiving corps with not just talent but with talent that complements the strengths of their QB.    The Bills did the opposite.

 

Taylor's production when both Watkins and Woods were healthy in Buffalo speaks for itself.

 

He has clear weaknesses but the narrative that he is some kind of Trent Edwards or Kelly Holcomb restrictor valve is complete bullsh*t....he QB'd the team to the most big plays in the entire NFL in both 2015 and 2016.........he is a big play QB and when you give him talent outside the hashes that can't bring down 5% of 50/50 balls you are going to be disappointed.

 

 

 

Incorrect, but your bias is noted

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

This illustrates how hard you gotta' work to find a stark comparison.   Rodgers, Brady and Manning are HOF'ers.    That's where you should have ended your list.

 

In the other cases Derek Carr has been terrible this year,   Atlanta averaged 6 wins per season in 13-14-15 with Ryan....KC has been little more than a fringe playoff team and Indy went to hell even with Luck.   Taylor has been a slightly above .500 QB despite being saddled with major issues...........I'm not saying he belongs in the class of Matt Ryan.......but using those guys as examples of how lacking Taylor is doesn't help your argument.    

I think saying Carr has been terrible is an exaggeration. It was always going to be hard duplicating how good he was last year and he's certainly fallen off that pace, but IMO he's been solidly average considering his injuries and Cooper's mystery season.