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Air it out Fitzy

Uncatchable pass %. Dennison's fault too ?

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i mentioned this in a thread yesterday.  sure zay has had his share of drops, but a ton of the time when the ball is thrown his way, it's completely off target.  i'm not sure if his route running plays a big part, but i'm certain the qb play does.

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12 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Dennison is garbage. The two things arent mutually exclusive. 

 

He would be better with a qb that can make "all the throws" ? 

 

Dc's would worry about passing yards which would help the run game too. 

 

System worked with Texans and Broncos 🤔

 

 

 

Edited by Air it out Fitzy

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4 minutes ago, teef said:

i mentioned this in a thread yesterday.  sure zay has had his share of drops, but a ton of the time when the ball is thrown his way, it's completely off target.  i'm not sure if his route running plays a big part, but i'm certain the qb play does.

 

Well since Zay Jones is hardly unique in this, I'm going with the QB as the issue.   Taylor throws wild to all of his receivers way way too often.

 

Since I'm only being quantitative on that second statement - anyone have a line on what sort of numbers the rest of the receivers have - or the same stat but for passers?

Edited by BobChalmers

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I mean... i can blame it on him a little bit when we have a QB who is clearly more comfortable in shotgun... taking snaps under center.  A QB who likes to buy time, and you have him throwing rhythm passes.  Or a team that clearly runs power and traps very well... running outside zones for 1 YPC and leaving us in constant 3rd and longs.

 

I think TT has been terrible for the last 5 weeks, and generally just serviceable.  But this OC has killed any chance the O had of succeeding.

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1 minute ago, dneveu said:

I mean... i can blame it on him a little bit when we have a QB who is clearly more comfortable in shotgun... taking snaps under center.  A QB who likes to buy time, and you have him throwing rhythm passes.  Or a team that clearly runs power and traps very well... running outside zones for 1 YPC and leaving us in constant 3rd and longs.

 

I think TT has been terrible for the last 5 weeks, and generally just serviceable.  But this OC has killed any chance the O had of succeeding.

Imagine Dennison coaching a rookie QB. 

 

“Dont worry about what you’re good at son; we dont focus on such things here”

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Unless it's a deep ball to Sammy down the sideline, every single one of TT's passes over his 3 years in Buffalo have been behind the WR.

 

I can't think of a single pass he's thrown on a normal route that hit the player in stride and gave him an opportunity for YAC.

 

That said, Dennison also sucks and needs to be replaced.

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does it really matter? what we can blame dennison for, is the overall regression of the offense. that can't be refuted. whether that's due to personnel changes or play calling, the offense has regressed under this OC.

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Just a caveat here that when a pass is thrown completely off target, we as fans can't always tell if it's a wildly inaccurate QB or if the QB and WR aren't "on the same page" as far as the variation of the route called for by the pre-snap reads.  You can usually tell if the ball sails feet higher than the receiver's outstretched hands and OOB, or down at his feet, but if it's thrown short or wide, it sometimes represents a route mismatch not a QB throwing "uncatchable balls".

There's also the point to be made that if the pass protection sucks the QB will be less accurate.

 

Please don't make the foolish mistake some do of interpreting the above as saying I'm a "Tyrod lover" and making excuses - facts are facts, and they differ from excuses, the point is, when you look at film, you can't (as a fan) always tell what's really going on.

24 minutes ago, teef said:

i mentioned this in a thread yesterday.  sure zay has had his share of drops, but a ton of the time when the ball is thrown his way, it's completely off target.  i'm not sure if his route running plays a big part, but i'm certain the qb play does.

 

See this kind of post drives me nuts.  You're not sure if his route running plays a big part - fair enough.  But it may.  That said, how can you be certain the QB play does?

Maybe it's on the QB, maybe it's on the WR.  We can't tell.

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On the bright side, Tyrod's uncatchable passes are so far away from his own players and the defenders who cover them....so his INT rate is very low.  Score!!!

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26 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

But.... but..... TT is a good QB😳😳😳

 

You know, more than one thing can be true at once.  It can be true that Taylor's play has looked worse this year

1) because he no longer has WR he's "in sync" with

2) running the routes he expects as he expects them from the pre-snap read

3) the pass protection is worse for whatever reason

4) he's being asked to play under center when he's more comfortable from shotgun

and

5) he's not a very good QB and we need to upgrade the position (from both Taylor AND Peterman)

 

Just sayin'

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24 minutes ago, dneveu said:

I mean... i can blame it on him a little bit when we have a QB who is clearly more comfortable in shotgun... taking snaps under center.  A QB who likes to buy time, and you have him throwing rhythm passes.  Or a team that clearly runs power and traps very well... running outside zones for 1 YPC and leaving us in constant 3rd and longs.

 

I think TT has been terrible for the last 5 weeks, and generally just serviceable.  But this OC has killed any chance the O had of succeeding.

Pretty much nailed it.

 

Tyrod was more then serviceable the last two years. 

 

This year he's had a few stinkers as the stubborn OC tried to fit square pegs into round holes. 

 

Taylors likely gone at seasons end, but if Dennison isn't as well I'll be frustrated. 

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10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Just a caveat here that when a pass is thrown completely off target, we as fans can't always tell if it's a wildly inaccurate QB or if the QB and WR aren't "on the same page" as far as the variation of the route called for by the pre-snap reads.  You can usually tell if the ball sails feet higher than the receiver's outstretched hands and OOB, or down at his feet, but if it's thrown short or wide, it sometimes represents a route mismatch not a QB throwing "uncatchable balls".

There's also the point to be made that if the pass protection sucks the QB will be less accurate.

 

Please don't make the foolish mistake some do of interpreting the above as saying I'm a "Tyrod lover" and making excuses - facts are facts, and they differ from excuses, the point is, when you look at film, you can't (as a fan) always tell what's really going on.

 

See this kind of post drives me nuts.  You're not sure if his route running plays a big part - fair enough.  But it may.  That said, how can you be certain the QB play does?

Maybe it's on the QB, maybe it's on the WR.  We can't tell.

 

I think the benching of Taylor, when we held a playoff spot is a strong indicator that Taylor was the problem in the passing game.

McDermott took a risk and it failed but he just wanted to get better production in the air.

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3 minutes ago, BillsFan1 said:

Its not about the X's and the O's its about the Jimmies and the Joes

 

It’s about both

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4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think the benching of Taylor, when we held a playoff spot is a strong indicator that Taylor was the problem in the passing game.

McDermott took a risk and it failed but he just wanted to get better production in the air.

 

Maybe.  Or maybe it's just flailing about by a coach with poor talent evaluation (to think Peterman was anywhere close to ready)

Edited by Hapless Bills Fan

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5) Taylor is not a very good QB but there is no way you can evaluate a QB from just the Chargers game. I think Peterman could develop into a solid QB or a good backup QB. We gave EJ way to long to develop and Taylor was a backup for 4 years and at the bottom of the league in passing offense his 3 years as a starter. I think we can give this rookie at least a few more game's before we get the full picture.

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1 minute ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

5) Taylor is not a very good QB but there is no way you can evaluate a QB from just the Chargers game. I think Peterman could develop into a solid QB or a good backup QB. We gave EJ way to long to develop and Taylor was a backup for 4 years and at the bottom of the league in passing offense his 3 years as a starter. I think we can give this rookie at least a few more game's before we get the full picture.

 

When did that happen?  The fact is, EJ Manuel started games 1-5 of his rookie year.  He was given NO time to develop.  And in those 5 games, he looked better than some rookies, and worse than others.

But let's get back to the Taylor thing.  The fact is, the Bills were top of the league in rushing and had a high-scoring offense (10 or 11th with Taylor missing games, higher if projected towards 16). 

 

If you take a high-scoring offense led by a guy, and change it to something where the guy sucks, clearly it says the guy can't do what you want, but what does that say about your judgement that you want him to do something you can tell from 2 years of film, he was not successful at?

 

I'm not sure on what you base your belief that Peterman could develop into a solid QB - perhaps you could share that? 

With QB such as Wilson, Prescott etc they typically had  high completion percentage, as well as other pass measurables (yards, TD/INT, AY/A) at least their last year in college, high completion percentage in preseason, etc.  Whatcha got on Peterman?

 

 

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Dennison may not be the ultimate OC, but I doubt that he calls in plays with patterns that are 4 yards out of bounds.

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I don't think RD is a good OC but it's hilarious how much we blame the OC for everything instead of looking at the players.  

 

TT is a limited qb but they forced him into a terrible offense for him and traded a wr defenses actually had to gameplan for.  Stupid moves.

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