Would you be against the Bills bringing in Eli AND drafting a QB in the first round?

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s fine that you would take Eli over Tyrod. It’s not fine to base that on “completing passes or attacking downfield.” The “eye test” from message board posters isn’t going to win many debates.

I don't need to win a debate on here.  Time will prove me right, as it has done over and over and over and over.

 

And I'm stat hunting right now.

4 minutes ago, Bills757 said:

 

Again, unless Eli can accomplish such feats with the Bills' Oline, your statement is moot.  

 

Soooo, who's he gonna throw the deep balls to, and, how is he going to have time to wait for the WR to run that far to throw a deep ball?

Jump balls to KB. Draft a speedy deep threat.  Outduel Brady on our way to the postseason!

[Best Player Available]

7 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

 

We need to stick with NP as the starter heading into 2018 and double down on drafting another QB to compete with him.

NP won't even stick as a backup. He blows.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

I don't need to win a debate on here.  Time will prove me right, as it has done over and over and over and over.

 

And I'm stat hunting right now.

Jump balls to KB. Draft a speedy deep threat.  Outduel Brady on our way to the postseason!

I’m an Eli fan. He’s been on my 2 QB team for like 4 years straight. I think that he belongs in the HOF. 

 

With that being said over the last 2 years he has been a shell of himself. It’s okay. He got old. That happens to all QBs that aren’t using HGH. This version of Eli is not the answer for any team though. He may go to Jacksonville and win but that’s because Bortles is a disaster. That doesn’t mean that Eli is good though. A bunch of guys could go there with that talent and “not screw it up” (Tyrod, Alex Smith, Tannehill, etc...). He’s a sitting duck in the pocket and no longer has his superstar WR. Beckham and his terrible running game have masked his deficiencies for a few years.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m an Eli fan. He’s been on my 2 QB team for like 4 years straight. I think that he belongs in the HOF. 

 

With that being said over the last 2 years he has been a shell of himself. It’s okay. He got old. That happens to all QBs that aren’t using HGH. This version of Eli is not the answer for any team though. He may go to Jacksonville and win but that’s because Bortles is a disaster. That doesn’t mean that Eli is good though. A bunch of guys could go there with that talent and “not screw it up” (Tyrod, Alex Smith, Tannehill, etc...). He’s a sitting duck in the pocket and no longer has his superstar WR. Beckham and his terrible running game have masked his deficiencies for a few years.

My man, Eli was purty good last year.

 

How could a terrible run game mask his deficiencies?

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

NP might not be on the roster!! We are looking at a 1st round QB and a stopgap vet (maybe Bridgewater). I think that we have a new OC too. I’d say it’s roughly 70/30 that he’s on the team.

I think that it is more likely that Peterman will be on the roster next year than will Taylor. My impression is that this regime has made a determination on Taylor a long time ago. Regardless if the Bills draft a qb early in the draft it's an interesting question as to what Vet is brought in before the rookie gets a chance to play. A Brian Hoyer type qb will probably brought in to school the prospect. In my opinion Mayfield may be the most ready qb to start right away. I'm not saying he is the best prospect because Rosen may be. But I do believe Mayfield is capable of making a quick transition. 

 

I know you are not a Dennison fan but to be fair it is a challenge to run an offense for an unconventional qb such as TT. If a Vet is brought in it is likely going to be a Vet who can run/manage a more conventional pro offense. 

[KGun12TD]

Give me ONE good reason Eli would want to come here? ONE!!! Just ONE!!! UGH. We are far from being a contender...Far.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

My man, Eli was purty good last year.

 

How could a terrible run game mask his deficiencies?

He threw it a zillion times (38 times a game over each of the last 2 seasons). That actually is more than Tom Brady!! His gross numbers are fairly high because of it.

[BmarvB]

Eli wouldn't even consider going from one non contender to another

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I think that it is more likely that Peterman will be on the roster next year than will Taylor. My impression is that this regime has made a determination on Taylor a long time ago. Regardless if the Bills draft a qb early in the draft it's an interesting question as to what Vet is brought in before the rookie gets a chance to play. A Brian Hoyer type qb will probably brought in to school the prospect. In my opinion Mayfield may be the most ready qb to start right away. I'm not saying he is the best prospect because Rosen may be. But I do believe Mayfield is capable of making a quick transition. 

 

I know you are not a Dennison fan but to be fair it is a challenge to run an offense for an unconventional qb such as TT. If a Vet is brought in it is likely going to be a Vet who can run/manage a more conventional pro offense. 

I definitely agree that Peterman is more likely to be here than Tyrod. The point was that he isn’t a lock. He’s maybe 70%. I would say that Tyrod is 25% or less. 

 

I do agree that that it is a challenge to tailor your scheme (no pun intended) to your talent but I just watched Andy Reid, Doug Pederson and Bill O’Brien do it. Why can’t Dennison? If the answer is “because he isn’t very good” it just proves my point.

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He threw it a zillion times (38 times a game over each of the last 2 seasons). That actually is more than Tom Brady!! His gross numbers are fairly high because of it.

That's pretty impressive to carry an offense like that.  Imagine if he had some help?

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I definitely agree that Peterman is more likely to be here than Tyrod. The point was that he isn’t a lock. He’s maybe 70%. I would say that Tyrod is 25% or less. 

 

I do agree that that it is a challenge to tailor your scheme (no pun intended) to your talent but I just watched Andy Reid, Doug Pederson and Bill O’Brien do it. Why can’t Dennison? If the answer is “because he isn’t very good” it just proves my point.

A question that is related to this discussion is where would be the best landing spot for Taylor? I think Jacksonville might be a good location for him. Marrone is old school and prefers a cautious offense that doesn't turn the ball over. It would be a good situation for him. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

That's pretty impressive to carry an offense like that.  Imagine if he had some help?

He had Beckham and Sterling Sheppard.

 

The numbers weren’t all that impressive when you look at what he did on a per attempt basis. That was kind of the point. He isn’t the player that he used to be. He’s not even Taylor or Dalton at this point. He is better than Flacco but has regressed in a similar manner.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

He had Beckham and Sterling Sheppard.

 

The numbers weren’t all that impressive when you look at what he did on a per attempt basis. That was kind of the point. He isn’t the player that he used to be. He’s not even Taylor or Dalton at this point. He is better than Flacco but has regressed in a similar manner.

I think you'll be wrong.

 

Many folks said Rivers was done last year and not worth even trading for (not that it was possible).  

 

Believe!

[Formerly Allan in MD]

What established quarterback would come here knowing the state of our offensive line?  You'd have to give him a lot of guaranteed money.

[Sweats]

Why would we want Eli?................yeah, yeah, 2 time SB winner, i get it, but the guy is on a massive decline and his best years are behind him.

 

Having Eli at this point is a lateral move............i thought we wanted to move this team forward.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

A question that is related to this discussion is where would be the best landing spot for Taylor? I think Jacksonville might be a good location for him. Marrone is old school and prefers a cautious offense that doesn't turn the ball over. It would be a good situation for him. 

I’ve thought Denver but think Jacksonville makes some sense. It’s going to be a defensive oriented team that wants to run the ball and take care of the ball. Denver could go that direction and Jacksonville is there. If you had Tyrod and Fournette with that defense though they could be tough. 

7 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

I think you'll be wrong.

 

Many folks said Rivers was done last year and not worth even trading for (not that it was possible).  

 

Believe!

I love Rivers!! Maybe you are right and like I said Jacksonville is a spot that he can win in. My point was more that he has been regressing for a while. This isn’t something new. With that being said, benching him for Geno is a disgrace.

[BuffaloHokie13]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He had Beckham and Sterling Sheppard.

 

The numbers weren’t all that impressive when you look at what he did on a per attempt basis. That was kind of the point. He isn’t the player that he used to be. He’s not even Taylor or Dalton at this point. He is better than Flacco but has regressed in a similar manner.

For the 'we want better than a .500 QB' crew, Eli is 110-100 in his career (0.524), Tyrod's 21-18 (0.538). And it could be easily argued that Eli has benefitted from better defenses over that span than Tyrod's had backing him up.

 

Speaking career numbers: 

Eli: 59.8% Completions, 238.1 Pass Yards per Game, 7.01 YPA, 229.8 Total Yards per Game, 4.6% TD%, 3.1% INT%, 83.8 Passer Rating, 5.93 ANY/A

TT: 61.5% Completions, 202.1 Pass Yards per Game, 7.19 YPA, 224.2 Total Yards per Game, 4.4% TD%, 1.3% INT%, 93.5 Passer Rating, 6.34 ANY/A

 

Clearly Eli has 2 rings and is a Super Bowl MVP, but those numbers are awfully close considering one was drafted 1st overall and 1 was a 6th rounder.

[Just in Atlanta]

This thread needs a poll, STAT!

 

 

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

Pass on Eli. He would be killed behind our OL. I wouldn't want that on my conscience like Peterman is already. At least TT can run for his life.

[Just in Atlanta]

I can't believe he was benched for Geno Smith. 

 

What the Hell is going on in New York? Is it McAdoo's hair?

[Canadian Bills Fan]

He was benched for GENO SMITH

 

Keep repeating that and let it sink in

 

 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

Eli won't come here.  He'll stay with the Giants, retire or rejoin Coughlin.

 

....doubt he stays with Gi-AINTS......Coughlin is probably a good bet......other speculation has been Denver.........

[Happy]

5 minutes ago, Just in Atlanta said:

I can't believe he was benched for Geno Smith. 

 

What the Hell is going on in New York? Is it McAdoo's hair?

Supposedly this decision came from Mara, or at the least had his blessing.

Not sure why they want to start Geno Smith, who has had more than enough NFL starts to know exactly who he is and how bad he is.

[JohnC]

I'm proposing a fantasy deal. The Browns pick up McCarron in the offseason, a player they belatedly traded for in a nullified deal. The Bills then trade both of their first round picks and a second round pick for their pick. Then the Bills selected the highest rated qb on their board. The Browns then have a more experienced player at qb allowing Kizer more time to develop. My caveat to this deal is if the Bills rate Mayfield or Jackson as their preferred qb target then they can still make a deal up the board but not give up so much to do so. 

[BigBuff423]

I think the only way I support it, is IF they were to Draft a QB. Eli was a great QB, and one writer pointed out that if it weren't for Gilbride's vertical passing system, Eli probably would have had a lot fewer INTs and more yardage. I think Eli still has a couple years left in the tank for a good team, but I would also want the future waiting in the wings. 

[Happy]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....doubt he stays with Gi-AINTS......Coughlin is probably a good bet......other speculation has been Denver.........

I can see this.  Elway probably thinks he can make another run at a SB with another Manning.  He likes his old QBs in the sunset of their careers.

Odd that Elway, being who he is, has done a poor job of getting a good, young QB in the draft.

[section122]

34 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

For the 'we want better than a .500 QB' crew, Eli is 110-100 in his career (0.524), Tyrod's 21-18 (0.538). And it could be easily argued that Eli has benefitted from better defenses over that span than Tyrod's had backing him up.

 

Speaking career numbers: 

Eli: 59.8% Completions, 238.1 Pass Yards per Game, 7.01 YPA, 229.8 Total Yards per Game, 4.6% TD%, 3.1% INT%, 83.8 Passer Rating, 5.93 ANY/A

TT: 61.5% Completions, 202.1 Pass Yards per Game, 7.19 YPA, 224.2 Total Yards per Game, 4.4% TD%, 1.3% INT%, 93.5 Passer Rating, 6.34 ANY/A

 

Clearly Eli has 2 rings and is a Super Bowl MVP, but those numbers are awfully close considering one was drafted 1st overall and 1 was a 6th rounder.

 

Dammit Hokie I wanted to post that lol.  I pulled the numbers the other day and posted them.  They are relevant in this thread as well.

 

Some fun Eli facts:
 
Did you know he has a 110-100 record? 
Did you know he has 3 years of 20+ ints?
Did you know he has never completed more than 63.1% of his passes in a season? and a career 59.8%?
Did you know he has only thrown for more than 7 ypa 6 out of 14 years starting?
Did you know he has a career qb rating of 83.8 which is the same as Joe Flacco?
Did you know he has thrown 222 ints in 210 career starts.  More than 1 a game
Did you know he has thrown 334 tds in 210 career starts.  About 1.5 per game.  
 
So the average Eli game is 241.3 yards a game combined, 1.5 tds and 1 ints.  For comparison Tyrod goes for 238.3 combined, 1.55 tds and .23 ints a game.  Somehow out of these numbers Tyrod is garbage and a backup qb at best and Eli is a HOFer.

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, section122 said:

So the average Eli game is 241.3 yards a game combined, 1.5 tds and 1 ints.  For comparison Tyrod goes for 238.3 combined, 1.55 tds and .23 ints a game.  Somehow out of these numbers Tyrod is garbage and a backup qb at best and Eli is a HOFer.

My total yard per game number subtracted sacks, in case you were curious why there was a difference.

[Teddy KGB]

3 minutes ago, section122 said:

  Tyrod is garbage and a backup qb at best and Eli is a HOFer.

 

I agree with this as will the HOF committee. 

[section122]

4 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

I agree with this as will the HOF committee. 

 

Perhaps one could almost say Eli pantsed Tyrod? 

[BigBuff423]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I was just responding to the things that you were looking for. You brought up 3 things and 2 of them were false. Tyrod is not very good in the 2 minute drill, is Eli anymore? I don’t know how to find that information but I’d assume that the Bills have scored as many or more points than the Giants in the 2 minute drill. 

I think everyone would agree to that. Over a 16 game season Tyrod has been a superior player for almost 2 years. 

 

"Superior player"....if you count rushing yards, fine....if you say he is the better athlete, no argument here....

 

But "superior" QB, oh hell to the no. QBs are supposed to pass the ball to their WRs and TEs, use the RB by design and occasionally a dump-off...hit all areas of the field, read a Defense and audible....oh Dear God, here I go again....it's fine. You like Tyrod, I don't....this is like beating my balls with a meat hammer....

[section122]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

My total yard per game number subtracted sacks, in case you were curious why there was a difference.

 

Thanks I was but I just assumed I made a mistake in my calculations 

1 minute ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

"Superior player"....if you count rushing yards, fine....if you say he is the better athlete, no argument here....

 

But "superior" QB, oh hell to the no. QBs are supposed to pass the ball to their WRs and TEs, use the RB by design and occasionally a dump-off...hit all areas of the field, read a Defense and audible....oh Dear God, here I go again....it's fine. You like Tyrod, I don't....this is like beating my balls with a meat hammer....

 

I think you are stuck in comparing careers.  Although they are closer than many (including myself) thought this is more about who they are as a qb now.  Eli hasn't looked good for the last 2 years.  He played great in 2015.  Since then not so much.  

[Teddy KGB]

2 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Perhaps one could almost say Eli pantsed Tyrod? 

 

24-10 ?   3 Td's for Eli.      Not sure if he pantsed him but he def was better 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZjmEE1RQjU

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

"Superior player"....if you count rushing yards, fine....if you say he is the better athlete, no argument here....

 

But "superior" QB, oh hell to the no. QBs are supposed to pass the ball to their WRs and TEs, use the RB by design and occasionally a dump-off...hit all areas of the field, read a Defense and audible....oh Dear God, here I go again....it's fine. You like Tyrod, I don't....this is like beating my balls with a meat hammer....

I brought facts. He completes a higher percentage of balls. He throws TDs at a higher rate, INTs at a lower rate. He averages more yards per attempt and per completion. Which “passing” metrics are you using to support that? Or is it “eye test” and “your perception?” I am just giving you facts. 

[section122]

1 minute ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

24-10 ?   3 Td's for Eli.      Not sure if he pantsed him but he def was better 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZjmEE1RQjU

 

uggghhh that ridiculous missed tackle on 3rd and 3.

 

My post was tongue in cheek though.  You remind me of a poster that isn't here anymore unfortunately.  I miss his posts although I guess I don't have to pay up on our bet about Wentz that I lost horribly. 

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I brought facts. He completes a higher percentage of balls. He throws TDs at a higher rate, INTs at a lower rate. He averages more yards per attempt and per completion. Which “passing” metrics are you using to support that? Or is it “eye test” and “your perception?” I am just giving you facts. 

When he's enshrined in the annals of football history and Tyrod is a footnote, who will weep for the minor difference in TD%?

Edited November 30, 2017 by jmc12290

[BigBuff423]

55 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

For the 'we want better than a .500 QB' crew, Eli is 110-100 in his career (0.524), Tyrod's 21-18 (0.538). And it could be easily argued that Eli has benefitted from better defenses over that span than Tyrod's had backing him up.

 

Speaking career numbers: 

Eli: 59.8% Completions, 238.1 Pass Yards per Game, 7.01 YPA, 229.8 Total Yards per Game, 4.6% TD%, 3.1% INT%, 83.8 Passer Rating, 5.93 ANY/A

TT: 61.5% Completions, 202.1 Pass Yards per Game, 7.19 YPA, 224.2 Total Yards per Game, 4.4% TD%, 1.3% INT%, 93.5 Passer Rating, 6.34 ANY/A

 

Clearly Eli has 2 rings and is a Super Bowl MVP, but those numbers are awfully close considering one was drafted 1st overall and 1 was a 6th rounder.

 

On what planet is Tyrod averaging 224 yards a game????....he's averaging 184 THIS year! He only has 2 other years and NEITHER of them were more than 216 yards a game.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/tyrod-taylor-player-stats

[fridge]

2 hours ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 Tyrod > Eli talk is wild.  

 

One game with your life on the line, you're picking Eli. 

 

To be fair, if it's one game with my life on the line it's possible I'm picking Eli over almost any QB of the last 20 years.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

34 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I can see this.  Elway probably thinks he can make another run at a SB with another Manning.  He likes his old QBs in the sunset of their careers.

Odd that Elway, being who he is, has done a poor job of getting a good, young QB in the draft.

 

....QB spot is a head scratcher.......Lynch has been injured most of 2017 so he grades INCOMPLETE....Osweiller made his $37 mil round trip right back to Denver and all that changed was his wallet being stuffed......Siemian has had his ups and downs...BIG mistake was not keeping Wade as DC......BUT....keep in mind Elway has a BIGGER ego than TrainWrecks....people I know who know him say "arrogant"..........

Edited November 30, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

When he's enshrined in the annals of football history and Tyrod is a footnote, who will weep for the minor difference in TD%?

Not me (and I have said Eli is a HOF player). I just try to provide perspective. I’m not trying to be a jerk, just to provide perspective. Hokie and section122 have done a great job of it. There are people here that legitimately think Taylor is terrible but a blind resume next to Eli and he compares favorably. He is much, much closer to Eli and guys like that than he is EJ, Edwards and the other bums we’ve played. Obviously Eli has those 2 massive victories.