GoBills808 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Passer rating is as useful as its ever been. Tyrod’s 3 worst games of the season - Carolina, Cincinnati, and New Orleans - were his 3 worst passer ratings of the season. Against New Orleans he was a disgusting 33.6. Last year Tyrod was ranked 18th in passer rating. It’s never inflated how well he has performed. Yeah that 108 rating against the Jets was real indicative of how he played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Yeah that 108 rating against the Jets was real indicative of how he played. Yep. Tyrod played a very good game against the Jets. 2 of those sacks were his fault. He threw the ball well. Anyways passer rating like any stat isn’t as good when you’re talking about one game. Over the course of a season you don’t see any obviously wrong rankings there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Overrated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: If Wentz keeps it up next season I will. I still see so many flaws on the tape. I get it, they’re winning and he’s doing enough to make it happen. I’d like to see him face some real adversity because that’s where the elite QBs make their case. Put him on an average team and I don’t think he elevates them at all. I don’t know why anyone would feel comfortable with him as the starter in a game where his team is losing since he has exactly 1 game winning drive and 1 4th quarter comeback this year, both in the same game thanks to a 61 yard field goal. So I’ll stick to what I’ve said about Wentz which is that he’s a starting level QB good enough to win with a good run game, defense, and kicker. That’s still better than he was last year so he has improved and I’ll take the L on that. and Tyrod doesn't beat the Falcons without a defensive TD and TWO 55+ yard FGs and would be 4-5. Wentz is the real deal and barring serious injury is going to be slinging it for a long time in the NFL, he's in his second year for god sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Yep. Tyrod played a very good game against the Jets. 2 of those sacks were his fault. He threw the ball well. Anyways passer rating like any stat isn’t as good when you’re talking about one game. Over the course of a season you don’t see any obviously wrong rankings there. Over 100 of Taylor's yards and one of his TDs came with 6:42 left in the 4th down 34-7. He absolutely did not have a very good game against the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Shaw66 said: Peterman has a lot going for him. I think his number 1 attribute may be his intelligence and decision making. The Wonderlic test presumably measures quick and accurate thinking. Peterman had a 32 on the Wonderlic, not lights out, but among the best of the QBs coming out of the last draft, and pretty good overall. Taylor had an apparently had a 15, and the biggest complaint about Taylor is decision making and a slow trigger. We'll see about that. The biggest complaint about Peterman, and something certainly worth worrying about, is arm strength. I didn't know it, but at the combine they use a radar gun to determine the release velocity of thrown footballs. Peterman was 49 mph, among the worst at the combine. The best is in the high 50s, and just about all the name guys coming out of the draft are at or above 55. So Peterman is 10-15% below where the best prospects are. Over the years, very few guys are clocked below 50. In fact, the only familiar name at the bottom of the velocity test is - Tyrod Taylor, clocked at 50. Now, Taylor's interesting to me, because arm strength has not been a problem since he came to the Bills. Did he improve his delivery and increase his delivery velocity in his four seasons at Baltimore? I don't know, but if he did, that means that Peterman's major weakness could be addressed. Brady also had a pretty poor deep ball early in his career, and he's improved that a lot. Maybe there's hope. You can see all the numbers here. Arm strength only gets you so far, and quite honestly, I have found that a really strong arm can be almost be a negative because QB's with cannons tend to lack touch as they throw with too much velocity and low arc. Cam Newton is a great example of this...go watch a Kelvin Benjamin highlight video, look at the way Cams throws get there...low trajectory which creates opportunity for INT's and Deflections. Cam also is notorious for firing passes over WR's heads with too much velocity and not enough touch or feel. A lower velocity arm can simply be countered with timing and touch. All these guys have enough arm strength to get the ball down field, otherwise they wouldn't be on a roster. Will Peterman put 70 yards of air under the ball on a bomb...probably not, but he can throw a beautiful arced pass 40 yards down field and hit a WR in stride and let him run the rest of the way. Thats what made Montana and Brady so special...not the strongest arms, but timing and touch were remarkable. So Peterman's clocked arm strength is not really a concern for me as that really only comes into play in really long pass plays. I am more interested in seeing a QB who can anticipate and accurately time a throw to a WR making his break. And the difference in this range is more minimal than MPH stats on a piece of paper make it look. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Arm strength only gets you so far, and quite honestly, I have found that a really strong arm can be almost be a negative because QB's with cannons tend to lack touch as they throw with too much velocity and low arc. Cam Newton is a great example of this...go watch a Kelvin Benjamin highlight video, look at the way Cams throws get there...low trajectory which creates opportunity for INT's and Deflections. Cam also is notorious for firing passes over WR's heads with too much velocity and not enough touch or feel. A lower velocity arm can simply be countered with timing and touch. All these guys have enough arm strength to get the ball down field, otherwise they wouldn't be on a roster. Will Peterman put 70 yards of air under the ball on a bomb...probably not, but he can throw a beautiful arced pass 40 yards down field and hit a WR in stride and let him run the rest of the way. Thats what made Montana and Brady so special...not the strongest arms, but timing and touch were remarkable. So Peterman's clocked arm strength is not really a concern for me as that really only comes into play in really long pass plays. I am more interested in seeing a QB who can anticipate and accurately time a throw to a WR making his break. And the difference in this range is more minimal than MPH stats on a piece of paper make it look. This is a real good post 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Steptide said: This is just my opinion, but to me arm strength is the absolute dumbest argument to be made against a qb. Just my opinion, but the whole arm strength argument is so over blown Not when it came to Ryan Fitzpatrick... he legitimately was a liability because teams knew throwing deep accurately was rarely happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Doc said: Deshaun Watson's ball velocity was 45. I was told his game wouldn't translate because of this stupid metric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Charles Romes said: Its not the deep rainbow ball people are concerned about it's the out pattern to the sideline. You need this throw and you need to take the pick 6 off the table when you throw it. Peterman’s first pass, to Thompson, was such a throw. And ge completed it against one of the Saints’ starting CBs (Crawley) no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) Peterman's arm is better than a number of QBs that have had successful NFL careers. I'm comfortable with his skill set. Edited November 17, 2017 by TigerJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 3 hours ago, ajmac said: I will quote one of the best ever QB's on this subject...Joe Montana..."I don't throw darts at balloons, I throw balloons at darts!" even when the elbow was gone, he could still make the throws necessary to move the team down the field. Power is great and all, but accuracy and ball placement is key to the west coast offense. This is not the run and gun, not the K-Gun, nor a vertical passing attack offense. Short to mid-range, accurate throws to players with the ability to make yards after that catch. Come on guys, we have watched Brady kill us like this for years. Let's at least give the man a chance before we make quick decisions on what is or what isn't key for him to be a success. ok, I'm done now. Thanks for playing... Yeah, Montana was an exception. He was a pure west coast offense qb. He was throwing short balls a lot. And he had Jerry Rice to throw to. No one is telling us that Peterman is Montana. 2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...my my the "know it all" has pontificated relegating us ignorants to genuflect status...rarified air on that high horse....get lost......a real waste............... You can't argue with the truth so you're left with this? The only good qb whom didn't have a strong arm that anyone has named is Montana, and he played in a different era and had the best receiver in the world. 42 minutes ago, TigerJ said: Peterman's arm is better than a number of QBs that have had successful NFL careers. I'm comfortable with his skill set. And who are these qbs? There aren't many and they are the exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, TigerJ said: Peterman's arm is better than a number of QBs that have had successful NFL careers. I'm comfortable with his skill set. Actually his arm strength reminds me of Romo's. Good enuf if not great. In fact my preliminary impression is that he maybe resembles Romo quite a lot. Not a draft darling (Romo was undrafted) , decent size, average athleticism, decent arm, accurate passer, mobility, excellent vision, smarts. If he is Romo II I think we hit the jackpot. Edited November 17, 2017 by starrymessenger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, starrymessenger said: Actually his arm strength reminds me of Romo's. Good enuf if not great. In fact my preliminary impression is that he maybe resembles Romo quite a lot. Not a draft darling (Romo was undrafted) , decent size, average athleticism, decent arm, accurate passer, mobility, excellent vision, smarts. If he is Romo II I think we hit the jackpot. Yea if he's Romo we won the lottery But I have to believe if Romo went to Pittsburgh he would've been drafted ... he was a small school darling Its because of him that guys like Garrapolo and Wentz got drafted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 24 minutes ago, starrymessenger said: Actually his arm strength reminds me of Romo's. Good enuf if not great. In fact my preliminary impression is that he maybe resembles Romo quite a lot. Not a draft darling (Romo was undrafted) , decent size, average athleticism, decent arm, accurate passer, mobility, excellent vision, smarts. If he is Romo II I think we hit the jackpot. Good comparison. Wonderlic score is similar too, Romo got a 37 and Peterman got a 33. Interestingly Tom Brady also scored a 33. Now I’m not saying this means Peterman is the next Brady, but that’s exactly what I’m saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Arm strength is one flaw that can be fixed through time. So if that was truly the main knock on NP I think we are in goo shape assuming his experience in Pitt's pro style offense translates well with what Dennison wants him to run in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 48 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Good comparison. Wonderlic score is similar too, Romo got a 37 and Peterman got a 33. Interestingly Tom Brady also scored a 33. Now I’m not saying this means Peterman is the next Brady, but that’s exactly what I’m saying. Tom Brady had a below average arm coming out...really this whole velocity thing is meaningless. His arm has gotten stronger from lifting weights, he's learned to snap his hips better to drive the ball, it's likely a non-issue at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennstate10 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 After 8 pages, I'm astounded that people dont understand the concept of arm strength. Arm strength IS ball velocity. Period. I'm 60 yrs old. My name aint Rico, but I can throw a football 50 yds. Its a rainbow. A classic 50-50 ball. That ISNT arm strength. Arm strength is throwing a ball 20-25 yd on a rope. It gets there before the DB can react. Thats arm strength. Favre, Brady, Stafford have arm strength. Watch their games, watch the 20 yd outs. Next point is accuracy. Watch Drew Brees. He is the most accurate passer I've ever seen. Look at the youtube. The last issue is recognition, and knowing when to throw. An acquaintance of mine was a D1 college coach. He pointed out to me that a good QB had to have a good OODA loop. Explanation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop Ive watched TT the last 3 years. He didnt have a quick OODA loop when he started, and it hasnt improved. Time to check the next guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, pennstate10 said: After 8 pages, I'm astounded that people dont understand the concept of arm strength. Arm strength IS ball velocity. Period. I'm 60 yrs old. My name aint Rico, but I can throw a football 50 yds. Its a rainbow. A classic 50-50 ball. That ISNT arm strength. Arm strength is throwing a ball 20-25 yd on a rope. It gets there before the DB can react. Thats arm strength. Favre, Brady, Stafford have arm strength. Watch their games, watch the 20 yd outs. Next point is accuracy. Watch Drew Brees. He is the most accurate passer I've ever seen. Look at the youtube. The last issue is recognition, and knowing when to throw. An acquaintance of mine was a D1 college coach. He pointed out to me that a good QB had to have a good OODA loop. Explanation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop Ive watched TT the last 3 years. He didnt have a quick OODA loop when he started, and it hasnt improved. Time to check the next guy. That was amazing..perfect 10 of 10...4 of them hit dead center...destroyed Olympic archers in accuracy... Edited November 17, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordong Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Joe Montana didnt have a strong arm... he did pretty good for himself... Give me a guy that can throw accurate, and anticipate his WR open after the cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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