Tyrod is a franchise QB

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Damn Trans....this forum is extremely important to you isn't it?

 

Nah, I'm here less than a lot of posters who seem to just be here for quips and one liners as you, jmc and Shady are doing right on cue in a series of posts irrelevant to the topic in the thread.

 

But when I do come here, I like a serious and substantive discussion.

 

If that's bad, I'm sorry.

 

You're apparently reading what I wrote as some kind of meltdown. It's not. It's part of a year and a half of logical fallacies by Thurm.

 

 

All good, brah. Surf's more important, and now that I'm done with my coffee, that's where I'm headed

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

another call out   Bravo.  

 

END this thread please 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Nah, I'm here less than a lot of posters who seem to just be here for quips and one liners as you, jmc and Shady are doing right on cue in a series of posts irrelevant to the topic in the thread.

 

But when I do come here, I like a serious and substantive discussion.

 

If that's bad, I'm sorry.

 

You're apparently reading what I wrote as some kind of meltdown. It's not. It's part of a year and a half of logical fallacies by Thurm.

 

 

All good, brah. Surf's more important, and now that I'm done with my coffee, that's where I'm headed

 

It seems it's more of a bickering match with you and yes, we know it's serious for you.  

 

I do more than just one liners as well and contribute in other threads.  I just don't as much in Taylor threads because how much more can you really add that already hasn't been beaten to death?  So I'll admit, I don't take Taylor threads serious anymore.   I do talk about other positional players too....

Edited November 10, 2017 by Royale with Cheese

[grb]

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

END this thread please 

 

But we'll just need another Tyrod thread then, so what's the point?

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, grb said:

 

But we'll just need another Tyrod thread then, so what's the point?

 

I guess we could just ya know...stop arguing about the same Tyrod stuff everyday?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It seems it's more of a bickering match with you and yes, we know it's serious for you.  

 

I do more than just one liners as well and contribute in other threads.  I just don't as much in Taylor threads because how much more can you really add that already hasn't been beaten to death?  So I'll admit, I don't take Taylor threads serious anymore.   I do talk about other positional players too....

 

that he seldom ever does.

 

 

 

is that a one liner?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

that he seldom ever does.

 

 

 

is that a one liner?

 

You want to hear a good one liner?

 

I once wrote a song about a tortilla...actually it was more of a wrap.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

that he seldom ever does.

 

 

 

is that a one liner?

Two actually 

[grb]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

I guess we could just ya know...stop arguing about the same Tyrod stuff everyday?

 

 

[JaCrispy]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Taylor doesn't have problems throwing to the intermediate middle third period  He has 110.4 rating to the intermediate middle third this season.  He threw 5 completions there just last week.  As for the deep middle.  Yeah, he doesn't throw there often.  No QB does.  He was however throwing there when Clay was healthy.  Right now I don't think they have many routes there with Clay out.

 

 

No sense in trying to explain...Tyrod has done everything this season he was previously criticized for not doing (throwing over the middle, being a pocket passer, leading a late 4th qtr comeback) including by me...people knocking him now are just throwing anything at the wall and hoping it sticks imo...the only thing left for him to do now is get his team to the playoffs imo....but it's important for people to remember that not even franchise QBs get their teams to the playoffs all the time.

Edited November 10, 2017 by JaCrispy

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Taylor doesn't have problems throwing to the intermediate middle third period  He has 110.4 rating to the intermediate middle third this season.  He threw 5 completions there just last week.  As for the deep middle.  Yeah, he doesn't throw there often.  No QB does.  He was however throwing there when Clay was healthy.  Right now I don't think they have many routes there with Clay out.

 

 

 

....definitely has been an area of improvement in 2017 WHEN or IF Dennison allows him to do so.......he is reminding me of Fairchild in his inconsistent ineptitude with play calling....

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It seems it's more of a bickering match with you and yes, we know it's serious for you.  

 

I do more than just one liners as well and contribute in other threads.  I just don't as much in Taylor threads because how much more can you really add that already hasn't been beaten to death?  So I'll admit, I don't take Taylor threads serious anymore.   I do talk about other positional players too....

 

So why do you even come in the Taylor threads?

 

Does this place mean that much to you that you even have to post in threads you don't actually want to discuss anymore?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

40 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

So why do you even come in the Taylor threads?

 

Does this place mean that much to you that you even have to post in threads you don't actually want to discuss anymore?

 

....poor guy is probably confused....there are only 38,754 threads discussing the same damn thing (YAWN) and he lost track of which ones he had read or posted to...probably over budget on his Excedrin expenditure.....give it up.................

[stuvian]

does anyone in their right mind think that we would have traded for Benjamin if Terry and Kim didn't think we had a legit QB?

[xRUSHx]

58 minutes ago, stuvian said:

does anyone in their right mind think that we would have traded for Benjamin if Terry and Kim didn't think we had a legit QB?

Your funny, a legit QB.

You do realize that Tyrod is on pace to do exactly what he did to Rex his first season, not good enough.

Nov12th2015 Bills were 5-4, Bills better win or Rex with Tyrod year 1 is the exact same as McD with Tyrod year 1, not good enough. Legit QB, your funny, more like legit no playoffs again wishing for a legit QB.

Edited November 11, 2017 by xRUSHx

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

does anyone in their right mind think that we would have traded for Benjamin if Terry and Kim didn't think we had a legit QB?

 

 

 

Um, me. 

 

Or rather, it depends what you mean by a legit QB. If you mean a franchise QB, I definitely think the Benjamin deal isn't dependent on them thinking Tyrod is a franchise guy.

 

Benjamin's under contract for another year and could be re-signed beyond that. And he's young. No reason whatsoever to think that if he doesn't make Tyrod a franchise guy this year then he failed.

 

 

 

 

The guy is 26 years old.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 11/10/2017 at 7:14 AM, section122 said:

 

I like how you used the English language there.  Very impressive.  

 

By saying double, quadruple, etc.. you make it seem like a huge difference.  Instead of saying 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, or even at most 14 more throws you used the multiplier which makes the difference seem much greater than it is.  Then you picked the most extreme example of 4.8 to .5 nicely ignoring that 3 of the guys are within 1.5% and even your extreme outlier is only 4.3% more.  Then you pull 1/20 or 1/200.  4.3% better odds would be the difference between 1/20 or 1.86/20.  

 

I'll put it to you another way.  Your "vast difference" between .5% and 4.8% means that Taylor would need to have attempted 12 total throws to be at 5%.  So 11 more throws over his 236 attempts would make him the leader in the category.  As Transplant pointed out though it isn't a throw qbs make often as 11 total throws would be more than everyone on your list save for Brady.  The likely GOAT QB throwing to the likely GOAT TE.  Shocker that they throw that more than anyone else in the league...

 

btw his 236 attempts are 23-73 less throws than the other guys, is that also a vast difference?  That is anywhere from 9% and 23% more throws. 

 

*started celebrating being out of work already, numbers subject to me being slightly under the influence 

 

 

 

Thanks. I used the English language to communicate. And I succeeded, for the reason that Brady does indeed throw to the deep middle at a rate nearly 10 times higher than Tyrod. That's a fact.

 

And as for the idea that deep throws aren't important because they don't happen all that often, that is a butt-stupid argument. Butt-stupid. Deep throws are extremely important, to both offenses and defenses, which is why many teams are looking for a deep threat every year. Will that deep threat only make a difference if they throw deep to him on half the plays? That argument is missing the point, and not by a little bit.

 

Brady's only gone deep, according to espn, 43 times this year. He goes short much much more often. Does that mean his deep throws mean nothing? No, just the opposite. They're wildly important. They have a high probability of being major chunk plays or TDs. They're not that frequent but you don't know when they're coming. They move the safeties back and make running and short passes easier on every single play. 

 

So of course if you then divide that number, 43, up three ways for each third of the deep field, your total numbers will be small. But no serious fan should think those numbers unimportant because they're small. It's like thinking gold and platinum are unimportant because they're hard to find and rare.

 

Tyrod having thrown only once to the entire deep middle third out of all of his 2017 throws (Thanks again for letting me know, Transie) is giving the defenses a precious gift. They know they don't have to worry much about that whole area. When a receiver fakes a deep post on a fly route, the DB knows it's either a fake or a route to an area the QB doesn't throw to and that you can wait a step or two to respond. Tyrod gives defenses a major advantage with this behavior. Tyrod's gone deep 29 times and only one of them to the middle. This helps defenses deal with Bills deep passes much more easily.

 

Extremely clear tendencies like this are a gift to the defense.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Thurman#1

[BullBuchanan]

23 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

So you're saying Taylor's still our starter in 2018?

 

Interesting... was that a slip? You certainly seem like a poster who thinks he's about to be replaced

 

I absolutely think he SHOULD be replaced, but this is the Bills we're talking about - the same team that decided a CB was a better pick this year than the best looking QB to come out in a decade. I think it's highly likely the Bills try to have their cake and eat it too next year. I'm fully prepared for a (trade up in the second or 3rd round to grab the 5th best prospect) type of scenario that makes Taylor the guy by default. 

Taylor is a virtual lock to be here in 2018, barring a complete implosion. Medicority wins the day - look no further than Miami, Cinci, Minnesota, Chicago, Jacksonville, etc for other prime examples. I don't hate Taylor - I just wish he was a player he can never be. It's not his fault that he'll never be Russel Wilson. Anything less simply isn't good enough.

 

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Like I thought you would, you cling to a false argument.

 

Too bad you don't read because all these arguments have been addressed and debunked. I'll just copy and paste some stuff.

 

Brady is the highest of highs... and even he doesn't crack 5% of all of his throws to the deep middle of the field.

 

Yeah, Brady's thrown to the deep middle 14 more times than Taylor on 100 more charted attempts.

 

How about Rivers who's thrown to the deep middle just 5 more times than Taylor on 77 more charted attempts?

 

Or Cousins who's thrown to the deep middle just 4 more times than Taylor on 59 more charted attempts?

 

Or Dak who's thrown to the deep middle just 3 more times than Taylor on 50 more charted attempts?

 

It's idiotic that you really believe there's really some significant difference between 1/209, 6/286, 5/268, or 4/259.

 

 

 

Again, same argument from Transie, and again, it's dumb. Yeah, Brady's thrown both deep and to the deep middle a lot less frequently than he's thrown short. Same with everyone else. 

 

Folks, pretending that deep throws only affect the defense on plays when the offense actually throws deep is missing the point. They have to defend the deep middle against Brady. Knowing Brady's thrown it there there 15 times out of his 43 deep throws you know you absolutely have to defend it. That affects your safeties on every play and your CBs on every pass play. Whereas with Tyrod throwing there one time out of 29 deep throws and 236 total throws you know you can move your safeties towards the horseshoe area where he actually does throw, short and towards the sides as you get towards the intermediate and deep areas.

 

When 28 of 29 deep throws are to the outside thirds, the defense says, "Thank you for the tendency, Tyrod."

[BullBuchanan]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Again, same argument from Transie, and again, it's dumb. Yeah, Brady's thrown both deep and to the deep middle a lot less frequently than he's thrown short. Same with everyone else. 

 

Folks, pretending that deep throws only affect the defense on plays when the offense actually throws deep is missing the point. They have to defend the deep middle against Brady. Knowing Brady's thrown it there there 15 times out of his 43 deep throws you know you absolutely have to defend it. That affects your safeties on every play and your CBs on every pass play. Whereas with Tyrod throwing there one time out of 29 deep throws and 236 total throws you know you can move your safeties towards the horseshoe area where he actually does throw, short and towards the sides as you get towards the intermediate and deep areas.

 

When 28 of 29 deep throws are to the outside thirds, the defense says, "Thank you for the tendency, Tyrod."

 It also matters that deep middle of the field plays are usually massive plays. We're talking about huge 3rd down pickups: does anyone feel safe when Brady/Rodgers/Wilson/Roethlisberger have 3rd & 16? When taylor has 3rd and 7 I'm already hitting the bathroom to beat the crowds before the punt. Those deep middle plays are also game winning drives, of which Taylor has 2 in his entire career. The aforementioned QBs seem to make these plays weekly, even if the frequency is less. When the chips are down, they have nerves of steel. Taylor just doesn't have what it takes to be anything more than an electric runner that drops down to a game manager mean. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by BullBuchanan

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Again, same argument from Transie, and again, it's dumb. Yeah, Brady's thrown both deep and to the deep middle a lot less frequently than he's thrown short. Same with everyone else. 

 

Folks, pretending that deep throws only affect the defense on plays when the offense actually throws deep is missing the point. They have to defend the deep middle against Brady. Knowing Brady's thrown it there there 15 times out of his 43 deep throws you know you absolutely have to defend it. That affects your safeties on every play and your CBs on every pass play. Whereas with Tyrod throwing there one time out of 29 deep throws and 236 total throws you know you can move your safeties towards the horseshoe area where he actually does throw, short and towards the sides as you get towards the intermediate and deep areas.

 

When 28 of 29 deep throws are to the outside thirds, the defense says, "Thank you for the tendency, Tyrod."

 

Yeah, great point Thurm!

 

Thanks for that tendency!

 

We're just gonna note that tendency while we take a nap in the deep middle as you pick us apart on that intermediate middle area we're so so obviously prepared to defend

 

oh wait, Tyrod is throwing to the intermediate middle about as much as Russell Wilson who's, like, a really good QB. And not only that, but his passer rating to that intermediate middle is more than 20 points above the league average.

 

Throwing to the intermediate middle AND successful doing it?!?!?!

 

Well, surely with this tendency we've got those sidelines locked down.

 

Oh crap, that doesn't work either. Taylor's passer rating to the left sideline is nearly 60 points higher than the league average on deep throws and 70 points higher on intermediate throws.

 

If we knew he was so great to the left sideline, by your logic Thurm, we're gleefully lurking over there to defend it.

 

Except that's not reality.

 

Little of what you say is, but let's evidently keep this discussion you're clearly wrong on up for another year and a half just because you're incapable of admitting you're wrong.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

 It also matters that deep middle of the field plays are usually massive plays. We're talking about huge 3rd down pickups: does anyone feel safe when Brady/Rodgers/Wilson/Roethlisberger have 3rd & 16? When taylor has 3rd and 7 I'm already hitting the bathroom to beat the crowds before the punt. Those deep middle plays are also game winning drives, of which Taylor has 2 in his entire career. The aforementioned QBs seem to make these plays weekly, even if the frequency is less. When the chips are down, they have nerves of steel. Taylor just doesn't have what it takes to be anything more than an electric runner that drops down to a game manager mean. 

 

 

Sooooo... you missed a lot of first downs I guess?

 

Taylor has the 8th highest 3rd down conversion % on passing plays in the NFL. Oh, and he has the 10th highest 3rd down % on 3rd and long (8+ yards) despite having faced the 2nd most 3rd and longs in the NFL.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=047&type=Passing&year=

 

 

And Taylor is tied for 13th in the NFL in 25+ yard passing plays despite having less attempts than almost all guys ahead of him.

 

 

Do you just enjoy making crap up?

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

Sooooo... you missed a lot of first downs I guess?

 

Taylor has the 8th highest 3rd down conversion % on passing plays in the NFL. Oh, and he has the 10th highest 3rd down % on 3rd and long (8+ yards) despite having faced the 2nd most 3rd and longs in the NFL.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=047&type=Passing&year=

 

 

And Taylor is tied for 13th in the NFL in 25+ yard passing plays despite having less attempts than almost all guys ahead of him.

 

 

Do you just enjoy making crap up?

 

It's like you're deliberately obtuse. Do you actually watch the games or just look up midseason stats? This defense has carried Taylor all season long(besides NYJ), and he continues to lose football games by being unable to turn crucial drives into touchdowns. Taylor boosting his stats in meaningless sections of games  doesn't impress me or put digits in the win column. His trash play during clutch time is what matters most, and he's currently this teams weakest link. With this year's version of Josh McCown this team is undefeated.

 

Here are some real stats that aren't just vanity metrics: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Edited November 11, 2017 by BullBuchanan

[Thurman#1]

54 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

It's like you're deliberately obtuse. Do you actually watch the games or just look up midseason stats? This defense has carried Taylor all season long(besides NYJ), and he continues to lose football games by being unable to turn crucial drives into touchdowns. Taylor boosting his stats in meaningless sections of games  doesn't impress me or put digits in the win column. His trash play during clutch time is what matters most, and he's currently this teams weakest link. With this year's version of Josh McCown this team is undefeated.

 

 

 

He is being deliberately obtuse. His goal isn't correctly understanding the situation. It's saying absolutely anything to make Tyrod look good. If that requires responding to a post about scoring, clutch time and chunk plays by talking about third downs instead and pretending like he addressed the post, he's fine with that.

 

He's interested only in spin. Not in understanding. But people can see that. It's spectacularly easy to notice. He isn't convincing anyone who came in neutral. Not even slightly close.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

 

Get a cell.

 

 

 

The kumquat warbles at dawn.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yeah, great point Thurm!

 

Thanks for that tendency!

 

We're just gonna note that tendency while we take a nap in the deep middle as you pick us apart on that intermediate middle area we're so so obviously prepared to defend

 

oh wait, Tyrod is throwing to the intermediate middle about as much as Russell Wilson who's, like, a really good QB. And not only that, but his passer rating to that intermediate middle is more than 20 points above the league average.

 

Throwing to the intermediate middle AND successful doing it?!?!?!

 

Well, surely with this tendency we've got those sidelines locked down.

 

Oh crap, that doesn't work either. Taylor's passer rating to the left sideline is nearly 60 points higher than the league average on deep throws and 70 points higher on intermediate throws.

 

If we knew he was so great to the left sideline, by your logic Thurm, we're gleefully lurking over there to defend it.

 

Except that's not reality.

 

Little of what you say is, but let's evidently keep this discussion you're clearly wrong on up for another year and a half just because you're incapable of admitting you're wrong.

 

 

 

Typical Trannie argument.

 

Blow hard about the deep middle, throw out a bunch of stats that prove the opposite, get proven spectacularly wrong, and then he changes the ground of his argument without ever admitting how thoroughly skunked he was.

 

And again ignore the actual problem. Which again is not just the intermediate third. It is the deep and intermediate middle third. Always has been.

 

 

 

Funny, in his post about the deep middle, he threw out the specific numbers of seven or eight QBs. After it was pointed out that the numbers said the opposite of what he thought, he switches to intermediate, but also changes from seven or eight QBs to just one. Hmmm. Wonder why that is. And Captain Miniscule Statistic himself doesn't mention any specific numbers this time. "About as much" as Wilson ... and Wilson only. Hmmmmmm. Makes you wonder.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Scott7975]

Just for ***** and giggles I am going to casually as time permits look at the charts week by week and compile some stats on these deep middle third throws.  It wont be perfect because they don't always chart every QB.  In week 1 there were 29 QBs charted. 

 

Here are the results for Week 1:

 

958 pass attempts

24 deep middle third attempts 2.5% of the throws or about 1 out of every 40 attempts

12 completions 5 TDs 2 INTs

14 of the 29 charted QBs did not throw to the deep middle or 48.3% did not

 

QBs with no throws to the deep middle:

Rivers

Siemian

Manning

Prescott

Hoyer

Carr

Marriota

Bortles

Watson

Dalton

Flacco

Glennon

McCown

Tyrod

 

QBs with throws to the deep middle:

Brees 1/1

Newton 1/1

Wilson 0/1

Rodgers 1/1 TD

Goff 1/1 TD

Tolzien 1/1

Cousins 0/2

Wentz 0/3

Palmer 1/2 INT

Stafford 1/1 TD

Big Ben 0/2 INT

Kizer 1/2

Ryan 1/1 TD

Brady 1/4

Smith 1/1 TD

 

12 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Typical Trannie argument.

 

Blow hard about the deep middle, throw out a bunch of stats that prove the opposite, get proven spectacularly wrong, and then he changes the ground of his argument without ever admitting how thoroughly skunked he was.

 

And again ignore the actual problem. Which again is not just the intermediate third. It is the deep and intermediate middle third. Always has been.

 

 

 

Funny, in his post about the deep middle, he threw out the specific numbers of seven or eight QBs. After it was pointed out that the numbers said the opposite of what he thought, he switches to intermediate, but also changes from seven or eight QBs to just one. Hmmm. Wonder why that is. And Captain Miniscule Statistic himself doesn't mention any specific numbers this time. "About as much" as Wilson ... and Wilson only. Hmmmmmm. Makes you wonder.

 

 

 

Well as I pointed out before... the intermediate middle third IS NOT A PROBLEM.  Don't know why you are lumping them both together because one is not a problem.  He has been throwing there all year.  The other he has not been throwing to much, but being a problem is debatable because nobody throws there much.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Scott7975

[Thurman#1]

26 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Just for ***** and giggles I am going to casually as time permits look at the charts week by week and compile some stats on these deep middle third throws.  It wont be perfect because they don't always chart every QB.  In week 1 there were 29 QBs charted. 

 

Here are the results for Week 1:

 

958 pass attempts

24 deep middle third attempts 2.5% of the throws or about 1 out of every 40 attempts

12 completions 5 TDs 2 INTs

14 of the 29 charted QBs did not throw to the deep middle or 48.3% did not

 

QBs with no throws to the deep middle:

Rivers

Siemian

Manning

Prescott

Hoyer

Carr

Marriota

Bortles

Watson

Dalton

Flacco

Glennon

McCown

Tyrod

 

QBs with throws to the deep middle:

Brees 1/1

Newton 1/1

Wilson 0/1

Rodgers 1/1 TD

Goff 1/1 TD

Tolzien 1/1

Cousins 0/2

Wentz 0/3

Palmer 1/2 INT

Stafford 1/1 TD

Big Ben 0/2 INT

Kizer 1/2

Ryan 1/1 TD

Brady 1/4

Smith 1/1 TD

 

Well as I pointed out before... the intermediate middle third IS NOT A PROBLEM.  Don't know why you are lumping them both together because one is not a problem.  He has been throwing there all year.  The other he has not been throwing to much but being a problem is debatable because nobody throws there much.

 

 

No, you said the deep and intermediate middle of the field was not a problem. But I shouldn't be surprised by your switching the ground yet again. It's your consistent M.O. Lose one argument, don't acknowledge it and move on to the next.

 

And dude, you already gave us data on the whole season for the deep middle for those eight QBs. One week is an insignificant sample. Having said that, it's interesting that your own count here lists 15 QBs who threw one or more times to the deep middle.

 

And Tyrod was 0 for 0. W hich coincidentally was his stat line there for seven out of the eight total weeks. Seven weeks at 0 for 0 and the one remaining week at 0 for 1. Yeah, I think we can all see why you don't think he goes there infrequently or has any problem there in the deep middle.

 

Tell me, anyone else in the league have one or fewer throws to the deep middle over the course of the season? Anyone with any serious number of reps, that is? Or is Tyrod dead last in frequency of throws to that part of the field?

 

And yeah, you pointed out that the intermediate middle isn't a problem, but then you gave no statistics, just a note that one QB had "about the same" numbers.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Scott7975]

36 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No, you said the deep and intermediate middle of the field was not a problem. But I shouldn't be surprised by your switching the ground yet again. It's your consistent M.O. Lose one argument, don't acknowledge it and move on to the next.

 

And dude, you already gave us data on the whole season for the deep middle for those eight QBs. One week is an insignificant sample. Having said that, it's interesting that your own count here lists 15 QBs who threw one or more times to the deep middle.

 

And Tyrod was 0 for 0. W hich coincidentally was his stat line there for seven out of the eight total weeks.

 

Tell me, anyone else in the league have one or fewer throws to the deep middle over the course of the season? Anyone with any serious number of reps, that is? Or is Tyrod dead last in frequency of throws to that part of the field?

 

And yeah, you pointed out that the intermediate middle isn't a problem, but then you gave no statistics, just a note that one QB had "about the same" numbers.

Go have some coffee Thurman.  Then come back and notice that I am not Transplant.

 

You said deep and intermediate middle of the field is a problem.  I said intermediate is not.

 

Yes one week is an insignificant sample but I don't have a lot of time.  It takes time to go through nine weeks of passing charts.  I plan to do them, but it takes time and I will post the stats as I do them as well as merge them as I do them and post those as well.  I am not doing this to argue with you.  I am doing this because I like data.

 

Yes Tyrod was 0 for 0 in week one.  So were 13 other QBs.  Haven't gotten to the other 8 weeks yet.

 

Couldn't tell you.  Havent gone through 9 weeks of passing charts yet.  Also as noted ... they don't always do every QB.  Don't know why, but they don't.  Tyrod's Raiders game is missing for instance.

 

Yes I pointed it out that it isn't a problem because it isn't.  I can quickly glance at Taylors charts and see he is indeed throwing there. For instance this past week Taylor has 5 throws to the intermediate middle third of the field. 5/5 1 TD.  No, I haven't compiled the stats yet.  Again I am not Transplant.

 

Also a quick note... While Taylor shows 1 pass (and I haven't actually verified that yet) to the deep middle, he has 3 other passes that I have seen so far that are on the border of the deep middle third chart.  That is to say 1 square of the chart away, which by calculations is less than a yards difference as sideline to sideline is 53.3 yards and the charts are 54 squares wide.

 

Another note... there probably aren't any other QBs that have thrown there 1 or less times.  There are however QBs like say Carr that has 1 game with 2 throws there , 1 game with 1 throw there, and the rest of his games none.  Meaning Tyrod could have just one game with 2 throws there and have just as many as Carr.  There are other QBs like this too.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Scott7975

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Just for ***** and giggles I am going to casually as time permits look at the charts week by week and compile some stats on these deep middle third throws.  It wont be perfect because they don't always chart every QB.  In week 1 there were 29 QBs charted. 

 

Here are the results for Week 1:

 

958 pass attempts

24 deep middle third attempts 2.5% of the throws or about 1 out of every 40 attempts

12 completions 5 TDs 2 INTs

14 of the 29 charted QBs did not throw to the deep middle or 48.3% did not

 

QBs with no throws to the deep middle:

Rivers

Siemian

Manning

Prescott

Hoyer

Carr

Marriota

Bortles

Watson

Dalton

Flacco

Glennon

McCown

Tyrod

 

QBs with throws to the deep middle:

Brees 1/1

Newton 1/1

Wilson 0/1

Rodgers 1/1 TD

Goff 1/1 TD

Tolzien 1/1

Cousins 0/2

Wentz 0/3

Palmer 1/2 INT

Stafford 1/1 TD

Big Ben 0/2 INT

Kizer 1/2

Ryan 1/1 TD

Brady 1/4

Smith 1/1 TD

 

 

This is an excellent idea.

 

I will follow along and compile your results into rankings as you do each week.

 

Attempts to the Deep Middle Rankings

 

1st) Brady 4

2nd) Wentz 3

Tie-3rd) Cousins 2

Tie-3rd) Palmer 2 (1 INT)

Tie-3rd) Roethlisberger 2 (1 INT)

Tie-3rd) Kizer 2

Tie-7th) Brees 1

Tie-7th) Newton 1

Tie-7th) Wilson 1

Tie-7th) Rodgers 1 (1 TD)

Tie-7th) Goff 1 (1 TD)

Tie-7th) Tolzien 1

Tie-7th) Stafford 1 (1 TD)

Tie-7th) Ryan 1 (1 TD)

Tie-7th) Smith 1 (1 TD)

Tie-16th and last) Tyrod 0

Tie-16th and last) Rivers 0

Tie-16th and last) Siemian 0

Tie-16th and last) Manning 0

Tie-16th and last) Prescott 0

Tie-16th and last) Hoyer 0

Tie-16th and last) Carr 0

Tie-16th and last) Mariota 0

Tie-16th and last) Bortles 0

Tie-16th and last) Watson 0

Tie-16th and last) Dalton 0

Tie-16th and last) Flacco 0

Tie-16th and last) Glennon 0

Tie-16th and last) McCown 0

  (and three missing teams, Miami, Minny and Tampa Bay)

 

 Completions to the deep middle rankings

Tie-1st) Brees 1

Tie-1st) Newton 1

Tie-1st) Rodgers 1

Tie-1st) Goff 1

Tie-1st) Tolzien 1

Tie-1st) Palmer 1

Tie-1st) Stafford 1

Tie-1st) Kizer 1

Tie-1st) Ryan 1

Tie-1st) Brady 1

Tie-1st) Smith 1

Tie-12th) Tyrod (0, but on 0 attempts)

Tie-12th) Rivers

Tie-12th) Siemian

Tie-12th) Manning

Tie-12th) Prescott

Tie-12th) Hoyer

Tie-12th) Carr

Tie-12th) Mariota

Tie-12th) Bortles

Tie-12th) Watson

Tie-12th) Dalton

Tie-12th) Flacco

Tie-12th) Glennon

Tie-12th) McCown

Tie-12th) Wilson 0

Tie-27th and last) Cousins 0

Tie-27th and last) Wentz 0

Tie-27th and last) Roethlisberger 0

  (and the same missing three teams as above, Miami, Minny and Tampa Bay)

 

NFL TD/INT ratio to the deep middle: 5/2

 

Tyrod after 1st Week

 

Attempts to the deep middle: Tied for 16th and last with 0

Completions to the deep middle: Tied for 12th with 0

 

 

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Go have some coffee Thurman.  Then come back and notice that I am not Transplant.

 

 

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

 

Sorry about that, heartfelt apologies. I hate to make stupid mistakes like that but missing someone's identity is a bonehead move. Sorry, Scott.

 

Last thing I'm going to do is have some coffee, though. I live in Japan and it's midnight and I'm headed for bed.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Dude, this is an excellent idea.

 

Just to help you out, I will follow along and compile your results as you do each week.

 

Attempts to the Deep Middle Rankings

 

1st) Brady 4

2nd) Wentz 3

Tie-3rd) Cousins 2

Tie-3rd) Palmer 2 (1 INT)

Tie-3rd) Roethlisberger 2 (1 INT)

Tie-3rd) Kizer 2

Tie-7th) Brees 1

Tie-7th) Newton 1

Tie-7th) Wilson 1

Tie-7th) Rodgers 1 (1 TD)

Tie-7th) Goff 1 (1 TD)

Tie-7th) Tolzien 1

Tie-7th) Stafford 1 (1 TD)

Tie-7th) Ryan 1 (1 TD)

Tie-7th) Smith 1 (1 TD)

Tie-16th and last) Tyrod 0

Tie-16th and last) Rivers 0

Tie-16th and last) Siemian 0

Tie-16th and last) Manning 0

Tie-16th and last) Prescott 0

Tie-16th and last) Hoyer 0

Tie-16th and last) Carr 0

Tie-16th and last) Mariota 0

Tie-16th and last) Bortles 0

Tie-16th and last) Watson 0

Tie-16th and last) Dalton 0

Tie-16th and last) Flacco 0

Tie-16th and last) Glennon 0

Tie-16th and last) McCown 0

  (and three missing teams which mysteriously did not attempt any throws to the deep middle but          also did not NOT attempt any throws to the deep middle. Remember, these aren’t my          numbers, I’m just compiling and ranking)

 

 Completions to the deep middle rankings

Tie-1st) Brees 1

Tie-1st) Newton 1

Tie-1st) Rodgers 1

Tie-1st) Goff 1

Tie-1st) Tolzien 1

Tie-1st) Palmer 1

Tie-1st) Stafford 1

Tie-1st) Kizer 1

Tie-1st) Ryan 1

Tie-1st) Brady 1

Tie-1st) Smith 1

Tie-12th) Tyrod (0, but on 0 attempts)

Tie-12th) Rivers

Tie-12th) Siemian

Tie-12th) Manning

Tie-12th) Prescott

Tie-12th) Hoyer

Tie-12th) Carr

Tie-12th) Mariota

Tie-12th) Bortles

Tie-12th) Watson

Tie-12th) Dalton

Tie-12th) Flacco

Tie-12th) Glennon

Tie-12th) McCown

Tie-12th) Wilson 0

Tie-27th and last) Cousins 0

Tie-27th and last) Wentz 0

Tie-27th and last) Roethlisberger 0

  (and the same missing three teams as above)

 

NFL TD/INT ratio to the deep middle: 5/2

 

Tyrod after 1st Week

 

Attempts to the deep middle: Tied for 16th and last with 0

Completions to the deep middle: Tied for 12th with 0

 

 

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

 

Sorry about that, heartfelt apologies.

 

Last thing I'm going to do is have some coffee, though. I live in Japan and it's midnight and I'm headed for bed.

Cool beans.  2 of the 3 missing teams are Miami and the Bucs.  Game was cancelled because of hurricane. The 3rd missing QB is Bradford for Vikings.  Not sure why he didn't get a chart.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Go have some coffee Thurman.  Then come back and notice that I am not Transplant.

 

You said deep and intermediate middle of the field is a problem.  I said intermediate is not.

 

Yes one week is an insignificant sample but I don't have a lot of time.  It takes time to go through nine weeks of passing charts.  I plan to do them, but it takes time and I will post the stats as I do them as well as merge them as I do them and post those as well.  I am not doing this to argue with you.  I am doing this because I like data.

 

Yes Tyrod was 0 for 0 in week one.  So were 13 other QBs.  Haven't gotten to the other 8 weeks yet.

 

Couldn't tell you.  Havent gone through 9 weeks of passing charts yet.  Also as noted ... they don't always do every QB.  Don't know why, but they don't.  Tyrod's Raiders game is missing for instance.

 

Yes I pointed it out that it isn't a problem because it isn't.  I can quickly glance at Taylors charts and see he is indeed throwing there. For instance this past week Taylor has 5 throws to the intermediate middle third of the field. 5/5 1 TD.  No, I haven't compiled the stats yet.  Again I am not Transplant.

 

Also a quick note... While Taylor shows 1 pass (and I haven't actually verified that yet) to the deep middle, he has 3 other passes that I have seen so far that are on the border of the deep middle third chart.  That is to say 1 square of the chart away, which by calculations is less than a yards difference as sideline to sideline is 53.3 yards and the charts are 54 squares wide.

 

Another note... there probably aren't any other QBs that have thrown there 1 or less times.  There are however QBs like say Carr that has 1 game with 2 throws there , 1 game with 1 throw there, and the rest of his games none.  Meaning Tyrod could have just one game with 2 throws there and have just as many as Carr.  There are other QBs like this too.

 

 

 

 

And I like data, too. I'll be interested to see how it all turns out, and I'm wondering if I'll have some time to do some more in-depth work / research to check up on things like yards and such. Dunno, I'm pretty busy lately, but I'll see.

 

As for the missing QBs, I see. The site didn't have charts for those teams, yeah? Lemme see ... Miami, Minny and Tampa Bay. 

 

As for the intermediate middle third, though, I'll disagree with you till I see some proof. I understand you don't have time to prove the case. Neither do I. But just as it looks to you like there's no problem, looks to me like there is. I know for sure there was a problem there his first year as I went through every single pass of every single game. And while I'm willing to be persuaded, an opposing unbacked up opinion doesn't persuade me (just as I apparently don't persuade you, even with the data from his first year. Fair enough.)

Edited November 11, 2017 by Thurman#1

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

is it an obsession to dissect a player as been the case with taylor?

 

 

I mean serious dissecting, like his every move. yeah, I'm thinking it's an obsession, no it's discussion, wait, definitely an obsession.

[xRUSHx]

3 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

is it an obsession to dissect a player as been the case with taylor?

 

 

I mean serious dissecting, like his every move. yeah, I'm thinking it's an obsession, no it's discussion, wait, definitely an obsession.

This is a Tyrod thread right?

The thread also points to him being a franchise QB in the title so IMO both sides should be discussed.

Edited November 11, 2017 by xRUSHx

[Scott7975]

27 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

 

And I like data, too. I'll be interested to see how it all turns out, and I'm wondering if I'll have some time to do some more in-depth work / research to check up on things like yards and such. Dunno, I'm pretty busy lately, but I'll see.

 

As for the missing QBs, I see. The site didn't have charts for those teams, yeah? Lemme see ... Miami, Minny and Tampa Bay. 

 

As for the intermediate middle third, though, I'll disagree with you till I see some proof. I understand you don't have time to prove the case. Neither do I. But just as it looks to you like there's no problem, looks to me like there is. I know for sure there was a problem there his first year as I went through every single pass of every single game. And while I'm willing to be persuaded, an opposing unbacked up opinion doesn't persuade me (just as I apparently don't persuade you, even with the data from his first year. Fair enough.)

If you think of something you want added to the data that makes sense let me know.  I am only in week 2 atm so it wouldn't be hard to go back and add it at this point.  Right now I am tracking how many throws overall each week, how many deep middle third passes in those attempts, incompletions/completions, TDs/INTs, obviously the calculations that can be made from that, and who is throwing them/how many/ who isn't.  I also have kept track of QB pass attempts by QB which could be added but I did not.  I chose to show overall attempts vs attempts to the deep middle.  I could show attempts versus attempts to deep middle by QB fairly easily if you want to add it later.

 

Yes as to my last post those are the missing QBs.  2 of them didn't play that week because of hurricane and I am not sure why Bradford didn't get a chart.

 

Its fine to disagree.  You are right he didn't throw much there in the past.  I see him throwing there more often this year.  No, I don't have time for the data right now, but I would like to know as well.  Maybe in the future I will have that time to do so. 

 

Now I have completed week 2 and here are the results:

 

1077 pass attempts

9 deep middle third attempts 0.8% of the throws or about 1 out of every 120 attempts

7 completions 2 TDs 0 INTs

25 of the 32 charted QBs did not throw to the deep middle or 78.1% did not

 

QBs with no throws to the deep middle:

Stafford

Rodgers

Ryan

Wilson

Hoyer

Cousins

Goff

Siemian

Prescott

McCown

Carr

Rivers

Winston

Glennon

Big Ben

Keenum

Brees

Smith

Bortles

Mariota

Brisset

Newton

Taylor

Flacco

Watson

 

QBs with throws to the deep middle:

Manning 1/1 TD (note this was a judgement one because it was right at the 20 yard mark with a smidge below maybe.  In the end I gave it to him.  Close enough)

Cutler 1/1

Brady 1/1

Wentz 1/2

Palmer 1/2 TD

Kizer 1/1

Dalton 1/1

 

Combined Totals Through 2 weeks:

 

2035 pass attempts

33 deep middle third attempts 1.62% of the throws or about 1 out of every 62 attempts

 

Also I am thinking about just throwing this in a new thread that I can update as I do them.  I can update the first post to reflect the stats as I go.  This stuff will probably get buried and it isn't the original intent of the thread.

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Scott7975

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

40 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

This is a Tyrod thread right?

The thread also points to him being a franchise QB in the title so IMO both sides should be discussed.

 

 

it's settled then, both sides are obsessed.

[Royale with Cheese]

17 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

So why do you even come in the Taylor threads?

 

Does this place mean that much to you that you even have to post in threads you don't actually want to discuss anymore?

 

LOL no.  I’m not the only one who gives passing comments on threads that are beaten to death....it’s just a little humorous.

 

Its very safe to say your call out post earlier means this topic is very important to you and you’re not going to stop until you think you won.  You gotta win Trans.... 

[vincec]

42 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

it's settled then, both sides are obsessed.

Welcome to the modern USA.

[Figster]

If Taylor is to be considered as a franchise QB the next step is playoffs.

 

 

I'm a Billiever...

[Bangarang]

15 minutes ago, Figster said:

If Taylor is to be considered as a franchise QB the next step is playoffs.

 

 

I'm a Billiever...

 

Simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean you have a franchise QB.