Coach Tuesday Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The only thing that matters is what Terry thinks the plan was/is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliteqb Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 No professional league should have any type of incentive for losing. The first handful of picks may have to be random or some other formula to discourage losing. Winning should always reap any rewards. Others have suggested different scenarios for running the draft. Need to stop this intentional losing - period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 They put on a good front saying they are "trying to wn now AND trying to win for the future" but is that REALLY accurate? I don't think it is... Look at what has happened in the week+ since Matthews and Clay have gone down for significant lengths of time basically turning our "average" offense with them into a disaster without them. 5 straight games with under 300 yards of total offense...we might set an NFL modern day record for that as I don't see how we get above that anytime soon without those players and people stacking the box. And yet McBeane has been silent on the waiver wire/FA/trade front. This team has the chance to make the playoffs THIS YEAR but yet they will do nothing to bolster our chances. And I find that to be maddening. It's one thing if the team wasn't that good and you just let things go...it's another thing entirely when you have wins over 2 top 5 teams in the league and the defense is good enough if the offense can just literally DO ANYTHING productive. I think he owes it to those guys busting their @sses on the field AND to the fanbase who is tired of this bullcrap over the last 17 years to actually DO SOMETHING to try and help this team now. I am not talking about trading a high pick for a guy necessarily, but if there is the opportunity to get a guy AND he fits in the budget/long term plans of the team WHY NOT do it? You don't HAVE TO only get players through the draft...there is the opportunity to make moves that can help the team both now and in the future that don't involve simply drafting well. It's just so frustrating to see McBeane "fiddling" while the offense burns around us and nothing is done to try and fix it...another wasted season when the team was good enough to make the playoffs with a little help...so frustrating...I know the plan is to start in earnest next year with all the draft capital and likely new QB of the future, but still... They aren't coming out and saying it, but you can hear it when McDermott talks about the "silver lining" being that a bunch of rookies got in there...they know they are hoping to keep losing players and be forced to play untested rookies/backups and then they have the excuse "well, we had a lot of injuries and don't have the depth yet to overcome them", but if they would just go find the depth, we COULD overcome them...but they don't want them to...kind of like in Major Leagues when the owner was secretly rooting for the team to lose so he could move them...the McBrothers are secretly hoping for the injury bug to keep hitting so they can keep slipping further and further down the standings while having nothing come back on them that we were actively "tanking" while having to play a bunch of untested depth players on the roster. Seems like I have read this... SOMEWHERE before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 They put on a good front saying they are "trying to wn now AND trying to win for the future" but is that REALLY accurate? I don't think it is... Look at what has happened in the week+ since Matthews and Clay have gone down for significant lengths of time basically turning our "average" offense with them into a disaster without them. 5 straight games with under 300 yards of total offense...we might set an NFL modern day record for that as I don't see how we get above that anytime soon without those players and people stacking the box. And yet McBeane has been silent on the waiver wire/FA/trade front. This team has the chance to make the playoffs THIS YEAR but yet they will do nothing to bolster our chances. And I find that to be maddening. It's one thing if the team wasn't that good and you just let things go...it's another thing entirely when you have wins over 2 top 5 teams in the league and the defense is good enough if the offense can just literally DO ANYTHING productive. I think he owes it to those guys busting their @sses on the field AND to the fanbase who is tired of this bullcrap over the last 17 years to actually DO SOMETHING to try and help this team now. I am not talking about trading a high pick for a guy necessarily, but if there is the opportunity to get a guy AND he fits in the budget/long term plans of the team WHY NOT do it? You don't HAVE TO only get players through the draft...there is the opportunity to make moves that can help the team both now and in the future that don't involve simply drafting well. It's just so frustrating to see McBeane "fiddling" while the offense burns around us and nothing is done to try and fix it...another wasted season when the team was good enough to make the playoffs with a little help...so frustrating...I know the plan is to start in earnest next year with all the draft capital and likely new QB of the future, but still... They aren't coming out and saying it, but you can hear it when McDermott talks about the "silver lining" being that a bunch of rookies got in there...they know they are hoping to keep losing players and be forced to play untested rookies/backups and then they have the excuse "well, we had a lot of injuries and don't have the depth yet to overcome them", but if they would just go find the depth, we COULD overcome them...but they don't want them to...kind of like in Major Leagues when the owner was secretly rooting for the team to lose so he could move them...the McBrothers are secretly hoping for the injury bug to keep hitting so they can keep slipping further and further down the standings while having nothing come back on them that we were actively "tanking" while having to play a bunch of untested depth players on the roster. They're 3-2 at the bye week. Chill out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Murica Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just a question for the OP, do you wear a tin foil hat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I'll ask again, give one example of an NFL team planning and executing a tank. The two examples that have been given in other tank threads are the Colts, but they didn't plan Payton's injury, without which the tank never happens and how has it worked out? The other example is the Cowboys Herschel Walker trade. Cowboys were 0-5 when trade happened, Aikman and Irvin were already on the team and they had already used their first round pick in supplemental draft on Steve Walsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schick Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 No professional league should have any type of incentive for losing. The first handful of picks may have to be random or some other formula to discourage losing. Winning should always reap any rewards. Others have suggested different scenarios for running the draft. Need to stop this intentional losing - period. Is there really any proof that intentional losing has ever helped any team? It's been pretty well documented that having the #1 overall pick doesn't guarantee a better player than say the #8 guy in any given draft. And that's not even getting into the discussion of whether or not the team as a whole actually gets better. The NFL is a totally different animal than the NBA or even the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 they are trying to win AND plan for the future. winning now is not going to take precedent over winning in the future however. i think they are trying to win the players over and get them to buy in and if you tank i guess it's hard to do that. so they are going to try and win with the little talent there is to work with now but if there's any opportunity to get better in the future that will be the priority over trying to compete now. personally i think it's the wrong approach. if it was me i would have kept Rex and gutted the roster and collected as many picks as possible and THEN get a new GM and let him pick his coach and franchise QB with the #1 overall pick. we have already tried this approach over and over again and it doesn't work. trying to win with a team that's not good enough just gets you worse draft picks and you get stuck in mediocrity for 17 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I am so sick of reading about tanking. Every GM, Coach, and Player wants to win. The FO made the trades to get rid of players that dont fit and bring in those that do along with picks. Can anyone say Gaines and Mathews have not been productive? I am sure this roster isnt where the coaches want it but it is what they have. It takes two teams to make a trade and I am sure every team out there knows the situation the Bills are in. I hope Beane doesnt over pay for offensive help. I am sure Beane and company are not just taking the week off to play golf. Players sitting at home are there for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Silent tanking at 3-2...boy we ca't even fail properly, we aren't careful we might make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 No professional league should have any type of incentive for losing. The first handful of picks may have to be random or some other formula to discourage losing. Winning should always reap any rewards. Others have suggested different scenarios for running the draft. Need to stop this intentional losing - period. I totally agree. A draft lotto is the way to go. Silent tanking at 3-2...boy we ca't even fail properly, we aren't careful we might make the playoffs. We win the Super Bowl. Do they get fired for not tanking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Silent tanking at 3-2...boy we ca't even fail properly, we aren't careful we might make the playoffs. Yep. Typical Bills. They just can't do anything right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Don't attribute to malice and conspiracy that which can be explained by pure stupidity. The FO moves left the roster dangerously thin in a game where injuries happen frequently. They happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliteqb Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Is there really any proof that intentional losing has ever helped any team? It's been pretty well documented that having the #1 overall pick doesn't guarantee a better player than say the #8 guy in any given draft. And that's not even getting into the discussion of whether or not the team as a whole actually gets better. The NFL is a totally different animal than the NBA or even the NHL. You're probably right and I agree with your sentiment but it hasn't stopped teams from trying any which way possible to draft higher in the draft where the supposed best players are. Whether it actually works is debatable as you can bring up the Tom Brady example. But, the best gamble is to try to draft higher for the projected better players and teams will do anything to get as high as possible to get a need player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I am so sick of reading about tanking. Every GM, Coach, and Player wants to win. The FO made the trades to get rid of players that dont fit and bring in those that do along with picks. Can anyone say Gaines and Mathews have not been productive? I am sure this roster isnt where the coaches want it but it is what they have. It takes two teams to make a trade and I am sure every team out there knows the situation the Bills are in. I hope Beane doesnt over pay for offensive help. I am sure Beane and company are not just taking the week off to play golf. Players sitting at home are there for a reason. I'm sorry, but if you believe this, then you are naïve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsherd Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 No, I don't believe so. I think they are trying to win with what they have today but also trying to build a system for the future. I would like to see more adjustments to the system to fit the personnel, but apparently they have faith that the system is most important. I am encouraged that they are moving away from the zone blocking scheme and hope they continue to make adjustments like this as needed. Just a question where did you hear about them moving away from zone blocking scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Very simple. If they can get back Matthews and Clay they will be good enough to contend in a thin AFC. The only hot team is KC. The Bills are not out of if. Yes they would have to play to their full potential to make the playoffs but it is not unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I am so sick of reading about tanking. Every GM, Coach, and Player wants to win. The FO made the trades to get rid of players that dont fit and bring in those that do along with picks. Can anyone say Gaines and Mathews have not been productive? I am sure this roster isnt where the coaches want it but it is what they have. It takes two teams to make a trade and I am sure every team out there knows the situation the Bills are in. I hope Beane doesnt over pay for offensive help. I am sure Beane and company are not just taking the week off to play golf. Players sitting at home are there for a reason. it just seems so preposterous. you take a couple guys who by all accounts are obsessively competitive. they take over a 7-9 team, and the plan is to strip the wins out of the season, display excellence by going backwards in the win column to 2-14, 2-13, yet stumble in doing so and win 3 out of the first 5? so now, after giving the fans hope that the season won't be a bust, you're going to try and drop the next 11 games and not look totally inept in doing so?? it's possible to have realistic expectations about your chances to win titles, the need to improve the roster in the manner you see fit, and not be in tank mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) Again how much better is the offense with watkins/boldin/jones to start the season. The O can't gain 300 yards since nyj (which was a boring game still). No effort to have a passable offense is a tank imo. Edited October 12, 2017 by Billsfan1972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I'm sorry, but if you believe this, then you are naïve. There's no "luck" to this defense. They are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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