Complete the tank, McBean. Do it.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Here's your driver.

 

[quinnearlysghost88]

No, they are not

team rushing stats look pretty even, save for the top four (three of which didn't make the playoffs), and 24 teams managed 100+ yards rushing/game.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing

 

passing matters, rbs don't.

[Scott7975]

Wish I had that outlook. But fighting for .500 is THE reason we've been out of playoff contention for 17 years._____________________________________________Man that's bull ****. We never fight for .500, we fight to win every game.And don't forget, as much as it pains me to say, a big reason we have been out of playoff contention for 17 years is because we play in the same division as Tom Brady and the Patriots. Thanks for making me puke in my mouth.

That's only 2 games. There are 14 more.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

"That's only 2 games. There are 14 more."

 

 

It's not just 2 losses, it's the fact that they win the division, so now you're competing for a wild card where a host of other tie-breaking scenarios can come into play.

 

I'm not arguing the Bills haven't been inept for a long time, been run by/coached by fools, and caught some seriously bad luck here and there. But to think that by tanking the season everything will get fixed is silly.

[Bangarang]

 

Thats actually just not true unfortunately...thats a refusal to look at the context of whats really more likely to play out. Its going to be VERY hard to end the season with a worse record than either the Jets or 49ers. Did you see the bounty the Bears had to give up to move up from 3 to 2 in this last draft to get a QB the 49ers were not going to draft anyway? All just to keep another team from making the trade.

 

This team is too talented to likely finish worse than either of those teams. If we tanked so hard we got the 3rd pick...its no different than picking 10th. First, 2 desperately needy teams in Jets and 49ers likely do NOT trade out of those spots unless there is another QB prospect they feel they can still get that they love. And if that does happen, literally no chance they trade down without us sending them a bounty, even to move 1 spot from 3rd to 2nd in the draft.

 

So there is almost no scenario where we can take hard enough to be bad enough to get ahead of those 2 teams. They are bad enough that going winless is actually on the table for both of them. The Bills roster is substantially in better shape than either of those teams.

 

This is why trying to tank more isn't going to improve how much we give up by much, if at all, to move high enough to take one of the top 2 QB prospects in the draft. And this is why jettisoning all of our talent to TRY and do that is a colossal mistake as we likely wont succeed and then we are drafting a young QB to a substantially worse roster rather than drafting a young QB to a team with good pieces on it that could allow us to compete fast.

 

Look at Seattle...that was a 7-9 team 2 years in a row before Wilson and they made a massive leap first year because the team was talented everywhere but the QB. We could easily have a similar path if our D keeps improving the way it seems, and we go out and use these assets to get a QB rather than make 5 more holes we desperately need to fill and don't have any draft picks to do so because we still traded most of them to get a QB.

Trading Shady and starting Peterman all but guarantees we're in the running for the top pick. If the goal was to tank for the top pick then it's certainly attainable.

 

There's also a pretty significant difference between picking 3rd and picking 10th. The 49ers could easily land Cousins as a free agent and with us picking 3rd we could be the next team up to get a QB

Edited August 21, 2017 by Bangarang

[thunderingsquid]

I think instilling the fear of being traded - which all players including Shady have reason to believe, now after Sammy and Ronald were shipped out - will absolutely affect the play on the field and contribute to mounting losses.

[Alphadawg7]

Trading Shady and starting Peterman all but guarantees we're in the running for the top pick. If the goal was to tank for the top pick then it's certainly attainable.

 

There's also a pretty significant difference between picking 3rd and picking 10th.

 

I could not disagree more. We are still a better team with no McCoy and Peterman at QB than Jets and 49ers. I would still fully believe we sweep the Jets with Peterman and no McCoy. We have a great run blocking OL, and JWill should still be productive behind it. And our Defense has looked stout so far, and there is a lot of reasons to believe it will live up to that hype given its got more talent and a scheme and staff that is substantially better suited for the personnel.

 

I mean the Jets are being discussed as not being able to win a game this year. 49ers are not that far behind that talk either.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

I could not disagree more. We are still a better team with no McCoy and Peterman at QB than Jets and 49ers. I would still fully believe we sweep the Jets with Peterman and no McCoy. We have a great run blocking OL, and JWill should still be productive behind it. And our Defense has looked stout so far, and there is a lot of reasons to believe it will live up to that hype given its got more talent and a scheme and staff that is substantially better suited for the personnel.

 

I mean the Jets are being discussed as not being able to win a game this year. 49ers are not that far behind that talk either.

I'm of the belief that their defense is better than ours.

[Bangarang]

 

I could not disagree more. We are still a better team with no McCoy and Peterman at QB than Jets and 49ers. I would still fully believe we sweep the Jets with Peterman and no McCoy. We have a great run blocking OL, and JWill should still be productive behind it. And our Defense has looked stout so far, and there is a lot of reasons to believe it will live up to that hype given its got more talent and a scheme and staff that is substantially better suited for the personnel.

 

I mean the Jets are being discussed as not being able to win a game this year. 49ers are not that far behind that talk either.

49ers could also easily get Cousins as a free agent and all of a sudden they no longer are in the market for a QB. Picking 3rd in that scenario looks a lot better than 10th.

 

I think getting rid of Shady and starting Peterman makes us one of the worst teams in the league. We'll just have to disagree on that though.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Bangarang

[Mat68]

There are too many good football players to completley tank. The defense will be much better than many think. The run game is still incredibly good with Mccoy. I think Jones and Matthews will be able to make plays. I do not see Buffalo being flashy but they will definetly be competive and most likley better than last year.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Mat68

[Scott7975]

"That's only 2 games. There are 14 more."

 

 

It's not just 2 losses, it's the fact that they win the division, so now you're competing for a wild card where a host of other tie-breaking scenarios can come into play.

 

I'm not arguing the Bills haven't been inept for a long time, been run by/coached by fools, and caught some seriously bad luck here and there. But to think that by tanking the season everything will get fixed is silly.

Yeah but with our record over the last 17 years we may have won in another division maybe 1 time when we hit 9-7.

[dave mcbride]

 

Thats actually just not true unfortunately...thats a refusal to look at the context of whats really more likely to play out. Its going to be VERY hard to end the season with a worse record than either the Jets or 49ers. Did you see the bounty the Bears had to give up to move up from 3 to 2 in this last draft to get a QB the 49ers were not going to draft anyway? All just to keep another team from making the trade.

 

This team is too talented to likely finish worse than either of those teams. If we tanked so hard we got the 3rd pick...its no different than picking 10th. First, 2 desperately needy teams in Jets and 49ers likely do NOT trade out of those spots unless there is another QB prospect they feel they can still get that they love. And if that does happen, literally no chance they trade down without us sending them a bounty, even to move 1 spot from 3rd to 2nd in the draft.

 

So there is almost no scenario where we can take hard enough to be bad enough to get ahead of those 2 teams. They are bad enough that going winless is actually on the table for both of them. The Bills roster is substantially in better shape than either of those teams.

 

This is why trying to tank more isn't going to improve how much we give up by much, if at all, to move high enough to take one of the top 2 QB prospects in the draft. And this is why jettisoning all of our talent to TRY and do that is a colossal mistake as we likely wont succeed and then we are drafting a young QB to a substantially worse roster rather than drafting a young QB to a team with good pieces on it that could allow us to compete fast.

 

Look at Seattle...that was a 7-9 team 2 years in a row before Wilson and they made a massive leap first year because the team was talented everywhere but the QB. We could easily have a similar path if our D keeps improving the way it seems, and we go out and use these assets to get a QB rather than make 5 more holes we desperately need to fill and don't have any draft picks to do so because we still traded most of them to get a QB.

I think the Niners win at least 5 this year. They aren't *that* bad now, and Hoyer is a get-you-to-six/seven-wins sort of qb ( https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HoyeBr00.htm) . Tell me how this depth chart is worse than the Bills' chart: http://www.49ers.com/team/depth-chart.html. Bear in mind that a lot of people out there think DeForest Buckner is the league's next defensive superstar. Solomon Thomas is going to be great too, in my opinion. He is super-talented. I think we fans tend to overrate the Bills roster. In my view, they have two-and-only-two elite level players: Dareus and McCoy. After those two, there is a whole lot of average. Glenn is good but hurt, and Hughes has underperformed for too long now for me to consider him top tier. Kyle Williams is good but too long in the tooth at this point. Maybe 3D turns out to be elite, but it's far too early to tell. On offense, outside of McCoy they have no one who is remotely special.

 

Finally, I think Shanahan is a GREAT offensive coach.

Edited August 21, 2017 by dave mcbride

[harmonkillebrew]

Let's trade Dareus while we are at it. Hell, trade Tre White for a 2nd.

 

More draft picks! Less winning!

Shady will be too old by the time we're competing again. Dareus should still be serviceable.

Get what we can for Shady before he hits the wall (basically the same argument for trading Watkins). Who are contenders that need a RB? Baltimore? Philly? KC? Someone will give up a high pick

[WMDman]

Shady will be too old by the time we're competing again. Dareus should still be serviceable.

Get what we can for Shady before he hits the wall (basically the same argument for trading Watkins). Who are contenders that need a RB? Baltimore? Philly? KC? Someone will give up a high pick

No, the argument for trading Watkins is that he was gonna cost to much/not resign here so we might as well get some return opposed to just letting him walk

[SoCal Deek]

You Tankers need to relax.

 

This Team is an injury or two away from a complete dumpster fire. And guess what....they're are ALWAYS injuries in football. No trades are necessary to assure a total disaster in 2017.

 

Go Bills

[Fan in San Diego]

Didn't Cleveland already do something like this ? It got them nowhere.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Didn't Cleveland already do something like this ? It got them nowhere.

 

Yet.

[GoBills808]

 

I could not disagree more. We are still a better team with no McCoy and Peterman at QB than Jets and 49ers. I would still fully believe we sweep the Jets with Peterman and no McCoy. We have a great run blocking OL, and JWill should still be productive behind it. And our Defense has looked stout so far, and there is a lot of reasons to believe it will live up to that hype given its got more talent and a scheme and staff that is substantially better suited for the personnel.

 

I mean the Jets are being discussed as not being able to win a game this year. 49ers are not that far behind that talk either.

I think without McCoy we are in the running for worst record overall. Evidenced by:

 

WR: Matthews and Holmes/Jones , respectively. Two JAGs and a rookie. Behind them a bunch of nobodies.

 

QB: A guy in Taylor who relies heavily on defenses worried about McCoy, and is prone to waiting for his targets to come open. Without McCoy, can drop deeper and extend coverages.

 

TE: Clay. Decent. That's about all I have for him.

 

RB and Oline: Williams is unproven, the right side of the line isn't good, they're great in run blocking but I think a lot of that has to do with McCoy's effectiveness in making the initial guy miss. They won't look as good blocking for Williams et al.

 

Defense will (probably) be improved statistically over last year, but again:

 

DE: Lawson who has yet to impress, Hughes the head case (talented but if things go south I can see him phoning it in), very little depth behind them.

 

Williams/Dareus: An aging talent and a superstar with questionable motivation. Likely the strength of the team.

 

LB: Up and down Brown, Alexander who just cashed in after pretty much his one good season in 11 years, and not much behind them.

 

Secondary: Not much experience, not much depth. Went from a strength to a weakness this offseason. Teams will be able to throw on us. Hyde may be an upgrade but corners are a big issue.

 

Without McCoy we have no NFL caliber playmakers on either side of the ball sans Dareus. Throw in the inevitable injury at ANY key position and I have very little faith in this team competing for anything other than the #1 overall.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I'm not a guy that wants the team to tank on purpose but I'd be ok with it honestly. I can't see this team winning more than 4 to 6 games so what's the point.

Stockpile draft picks. Fight for first overall. Gm better know what he is doing in the draft though.

The same GM that wanted Bolden. They had to watch him do a workout, this is who is evaluating talent for the two 1st rd pick's that we have. This is going to be close to the Titanic. Edited August 21, 2017 by Call_Of_Ktulu

[Saint Doug]

 

In reality, it guarantees nothing, further creates a culture of losing, drives off the fanbase and makes no players want to sign here as free agents.

Seriously, hasn't this already happened? Do you really think a tank for 1 year would worsen our situation in regards to what you have listed above?