Andrew Luck not ready to start regular season

[BringBackOrton]

How do you think the Packers would have done in the AFC south?

The 2008 Packers played the AFC South funnily enough. Lost to the Texans, Jags and Titans. All with A A Ron.

 

Luck has more 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives in his career already than Rodgers.

Edited August 31, 2017 by jmc12290

[BringBackOrton]

 

 

Andrew Luck was deemed to be the second coming. There is no denying this. So far the results are:

 

He is a great dude, has a good arm and a good football sense when things are going his way.

He has played in inarguably the weakest division the NFL has seen in decades.

His team has squeaked by in this division a few times and lost other times.

The arrows are pointing down and the Colts can't afford free agents because they are saddled with his contract.

In crunch time, whether in the playoffs or individual games he has choked aplenty.

 

His "career" at this point is a complete myth in terms of results. If it were to end today, he would likely be remembered as football's version of Sandy Koufax and he has done nothing to earn that.

LOL.

 

This is just sad.

 

Luck has absolutely lived up to the hype. He was hyped as a quality QB out of the box. Can someone name the last #1 overall QB to go to the playoffs their first three seasons? Can someone name the last #1 overall QB to make a CCG in his third year starting?

 

You'll be looking back before Peyton was drafted, at least. But, being the best #1 QB drafted in 20 years is being overhyped.

[4merper4mer]

The 2008 Packers played the AFC South funnily enough. Lost to the Texans, Jags and Titans. All with A A Ron.

 

Luck has more 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives in his career already than Rodgers.

 

How did they do against the Colts?

Edited August 31, 2017 by 4merper4mer

[BringBackOrton]

r

 

How did they do against the Colts?

They won. 1-3 in the AFC South baby! Go Rodgers! Edited August 31, 2017 by jmc12290

[4merper4mer]

They won. 1-3 in the AFC South baby! Go Rodgers!

You're right. Rodgers sucks. It's not like you're cherry picking results or anything.

[BringBackOrton]

You're right. Rodgers sucks. It's not like you're cherry picking results or anything.

What results would you like me to pull?

 

Can we discuss how even though Andrew Luck has been the best #1 overall QB in 30 years, you consider him over hyped?

[4merper4mer]

LOL.

 

This is just sad.

 

Luck has absolutely lived up to the hype. He was hyped as a quality QB out of the box. Can someone name the last #1 overall QB to go to the playoffs their first three seasons? Can someone name the last #1 overall QB to make a CCG in his third year starting?

 

You'll be looking back before Peyton was drafted, at least. But, being the best #1 QB drafted in 20 years is being overhyped.

 

 

OK so let me get this straight. Best #1 overall QB in the last 20 years. That means he is better than:

 

Goff

Winston

Newton

Bradford

Stafford

Russell

Alex Smith

Eli

Palmer

Carr

Vick

Couch

P Manning

 

Maybe I missed someone else.

 

You're defining "best" as "bringing your team to the playoffs for the first three years". It doesn't matter if your team was well established and tanked right before they got you? It doesn't matter if they played in a horrible division? It doesn't matter if you're a playoff turnover machine? It doesn't matter if

 

 

All that matters is winning the AFC South 3 times. This makes you greater than both Mannings and their 4 Super Bowls. Are you are also better than Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and many many others because they were not drafted #1? They were not held in as high a regard as David Carr, Jamarcus Russell or Tim Couch so you must be better than them.

 

Dude if you twist and turn and put in all sorts of stipulations you can make Tim Tebow look like the greatest QB ever. I mean show me another #25 overall with a middle name of Richard that averages 80 yards and a touchdown PER ATTEMPT in playoff overtimes. Luck? No. Brady? No. Unitas? Don't think so.

[BringBackOrton]

 

 

OK so let me get this straight. Best #1 overall QB in the last 20 years. That means he is better than:

 

Goff

Winston

Newton

Bradford

Stafford

Russell

Alex Smith

Eli

Palmer

Carr

Vick

Couch

P Manning

 

Maybe I missed someone else.

 

You're defining "best" as "bringing your team to the playoffs for the first three years". It doesn't matter if your team was well established and tanked right before they got you? It doesn't matter if they played in a horrible division? It doesn't matter if you're a playoff turnover machine? It doesn't matter if

 

 

All that matters is winning the AFC South 3 times. This makes you greater than both Mannings and their 4 Super Bowls. Are you are also better than Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and many many others because they were not drafted #1? They were not held in as high a regard as David Carr, Jamarcus Russell or Tim Couch so you must be better than them.

 

Dude if you twist and turn and put in all sorts of stipulations you can make Tim Tebow look like the greatest QB ever. I mean show me another #25 overall with a middle name of Richard that averages 80 yards and a touchdown PER ATTEMPT in playoff overtimes. Luck? No. Brady? No. Unitas? Don't think so.

He's been better in his first 5 years than every QB on that list, yes. Peyton hadn't been to a Super Bowl, let alone won one yet. He threw 23 INT's on his way to 6-10 in year 4.

 

You try to twist things to an absurd level. It's boring.

Edited August 31, 2017 by jmc12290

[JM2009]

He's been better in his first 5 years than every QB on that list, yes. Peyton hadn't been to a Super Bowl, let alone won one yet. He threw 23 INT's on his way to 6-10 in year 4.

 

You try to twist things to an absurd level. It's boring.

Bills could have won that division, esp in 2015. Bills beat the Colts and Luck. Even the better QBs need a supporting cast around them- unless of course it's TT-he has to do it all on his own or he is terrible-right?

[aristocrat]

i am afraid what we will do if we get a franchise guy

[HappyDays]

I stand by that. It's not half as stupid as pretending Luck and Taylor suffer from the same deficiencies, which IS what Alphadawg7 (and presumably you too?) is saying.

Alphadawg didn't say Luck and Tyrod suffer from the same deficiencies. He said, correctly, that people make the same excuses for their losses. Look in this thread. People saying Luck has a bad offensive line, bad coaching, bad defense, subpar offensive talent... Where have I seen this before? And people like you say these excuses don't count for Tyrod. Now of course these excuses are stronger for Luck - his offensive line is worse than Tyrod's, his defense is worse than Tyrod's, I'd say the offensive talent is about a wash but Tyrod has the far better running game. Coaching is a wash and Luck has had the easier schedule.

 

Clearly there is a relationship between teams and QB performance but certain posters only apply that relationship when talking about QBs that don't play for the Bills. It's just funny to see the excuses pile up for Luck. Of course they are valid excuses, anyone can see Luck is good enough to take a good team to the Super Bowl. But there are valid excuses for Tyrod too. And saying you'd trade 4 1st round picks for a QB who has not shown he is elite at any point, who has abysmal stats in the 1st quarter, who throws too many picks, is ridiculous. It's much more ridiculous than anything Alphadawg has said and it tells me you don't really know how to build a team.

[BringBackOrton]

Bills could have won that division, esp in 2015. Bills beat the Colts and Luck. Even the better QBs need a supporting cast around them- unless of course it's TT-he has to do it all on his own or he is terrible-right?

I'm confused, is this the Andrew Luck thread?

 

Take your constant propping up of a deficient QB elsewhere. 1 more year to go.

[JM2009]

I'm confused, is this the Andrew Luck thread?

 

Take your constant propping up of a deficient QB elsewhere. 1 more year to go.

My post was spot on. Post 171 was spot on too. Sorry.

[HumbleAndHungry]

I would give both of our 1st rounders TODAY for luck

[oldmanfan]

Alphadawg didn't say Luck and Tyrod suffer from the same deficiencies. He said, correctly, that people make the same excuses for their losses. Look in this thread. People saying Luck has a bad offensive line, bad coaching, bad defense, subpar offensive talent... Where have I seen this before? And people like you say these excuses don't count for Tyrod. Now of course these excuses are stronger for Luck - his offensive line is worse than Tyrod's, his defense is worse than Tyrod's, I'd say the offensive talent is about a wash but Tyrod has the far better running game. Coaching is a wash and Luck has had the easier schedule.

 

Clearly there is a relationship between teams and QB performance but certain posters only apply that relationship when talking about QBs that don't play for the Bills. It's just funny to see the excuses pile up for Luck. Of course they are valid excuses, anyone can see Luck is good enough to take a good team to the Super Bowl. But there are valid excuses for Tyrod too. And saying you'd trade 4 1st round picks for a QB who has not shown he is elite at any point, who has abysmal stats in the 1st quarter, who throws too many picks, is ridiculous. It's much more ridiculous than anything Alphadawg has said and it tells me you don't really know how to build a team.

Good stuff

[BringBackOrton]

My post was spot on. Post 171 was spot on too. Sorry.

Saying the sky is blue is also spot on. And about as exciting to read as yet another decent topic taken over by the CoT.

[Augie]

I would give both of our 1st rounders TODAY for luck

Heck, I'll throw in next year too! (Pending a physical.) But they wouldn't take it.

[Royale with Cheese]

You're right. Rodgers sucks. It's not like you're cherry picking results or anything.

 

You've been cherry picking like crazy! WOW!

He's been better in his first 5 years than every QB on that list, yes. Peyton hadn't been to a Super Bowl, let alone won one yet. He threw 23 INT's on his way to 6-10 in year 4.

 

You try to twist things to an absurd level. It's boring.

 

Yep. The majority of his posts are like this. He can't give anything with substance so his ploy is to go absurd.

[GoBills808]

Alphadawg didn't say Luck and Tyrod suffer from the same deficiencies. He said, correctly, that people make the same excuses for their losses. Look in this thread. People saying Luck has a bad offensive line, bad coaching, bad defense, subpar offensive talent... Where have I seen this before? And people like you say these excuses don't count for Tyrod. Now of course these excuses are stronger for Luck - his offensive line is worse than Tyrod's, his defense is worse than Tyrod's, I'd say the offensive talent is about a wash but Tyrod has the far better running game. Coaching is a wash and Luck has had the easier schedule.

 

Clearly there is a relationship between teams and QB performance but certain posters only apply that relationship when talking about QBs that don't play for the Bills. It's just funny to see the excuses pile up for Luck. Of course they are valid excuses, anyone can see Luck is good enough to take a good team to the Super Bowl. But there are valid excuses for Tyrod too. And saying you'd trade 4 1st round picks for a QB who has not shown he is elite at any point, who has abysmal stats in the 1st quarter, who throws too many picks, is ridiculous. It's much more ridiculous than anything Alphadawg has said and it tells me you don't really know how to build a team.

The 'excuses' are valid for Luck and not for Taylor. I'm sorry if that doesn't seem fair to you, but that's just how it is. With a great running game, competent offensive line and a #1 WR, Luck is probably the best QB in the league and Taylor is 7-9 with some of the worst passing stats in the NFL. So actually yes, you CAN make excuses for one and not the other when the evidence clearly suggests one QB would outperform the other if their circumstances were equal. It's not that hard to understand, and at this point I can only assume the two of you are being deliberately obtuse.

[Jasovon]

The 'excuses' are valid for Luck and not for Taylor. I'm sorry if that doesn't seem fair to you, but that's just how it is. With a great running game, competent offensive line and a #1 WR, Luck is probably the best QB in the league and Taylor is 7-9 with some of the worst passing stats in the NFL. So actually yes, you CAN make excuses for one and not the other when the evidence clearly suggests one QB would outperform the other if their circumstances were equal. It's not that hard to understand, and at this point I can only assume the two of you are being deliberately obtuse.

If Luck were on this team in our division we would still not make the playoffs. If Tyrod were on the Colts in that division they would also be the same.

 

I don't believe either QB is good enough to put a team on their back and take them to the playoffs or a super bowl because both have proven they are not. Both need a strong supporting cast, that is a fact.

[frostbitmic]

The Colts are tanking for Darnold.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Exhibit A (A for Andrew luck) in the argument exposing the futility of the tank.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[HappyDays]

If Luck were on this team in our division we would still not make the playoffs. If Tyrod were on the Colts in that division they would also be the same.

 

I don't believe either QB is good enough to put a team on their back and take them to the playoffs or a super bowl because both have proven they are not. Both need a strong supporting cast, that is a fact.

Exactly. Luck is better than Tyrod but he isn't so much better that you'd take on his contract for 4 1st round picks. That would be incredibly stupid. You trade that many picks for a Brees, Rodgers, or Brady. That's it.

The 'excuses' are valid for Luck and not for Taylor. I'm sorry if that doesn't seem fair to you, but that's just how it is. With a great running game, competent offensive line and a #1 WR, Luck is probably the best QB in the league and Taylor is 7-9 with some of the worst passing stats in the NFL. So actually yes, you CAN make excuses for one and not the other when the evidence clearly suggests one QB would outperform the other if their circumstances were equal. It's not that hard to understand, and at this point I can only assume the two of you are being deliberately obtuse.

It would help if you understood what people were saying. The part I bolded - no one is saying that isn't true. What jasovon said, that's my position.

[JM2009]

The 'excuses' are valid for Luck and not for Taylor. I'm sorry if that doesn't seem fair to you, but that's just how it is. With a great running game, competent offensive line and a #1 WR, Luck is probably the best QB in the league and Taylor is 7-9 with some of the worst passing stats in the NFL. So actually yes, you CAN make excuses for one and not the other when the evidence clearly suggests one QB would outperform the other if their circumstances were equal. It's not that hard to understand, and at this point I can only assume the two of you are being deliberately obtuse.

First it's 7-8. Second it should have been 8-8. TT played very well that Miami game. Third the running game was even that much better because of TT. He has to be accounted for. Fourth Watkins missed a lot of time in 2016 and played injured....Luck is a better QB, no doubt, but in 2015 Watkins and TT put up very good numbers. The offense and scoring has not been the main problem the last two seasons. The defense and poor game day coaching was...Both QBs need good supporting casts around them. Nothing wrong with that. Most QBs do.

Edited August 31, 2017 by JM2009

[Jasovon]

Exactly. Luck is better than Tyrod but he isn't so much better that you'd take on his contract for 4 1st round picks. That would be incredibly stupid. You trade that many picks for a Brees, Rodgers, or Brady. That's it.

 

It would help if you understood what people were saying. The part I bolded - no one is saying that isn't true. What jasovon said, that's my position.

 

To be honesy i wouldn't trade for Brees at this point, he's not great playing outside and is getting on in age. Brady or Rodgers though agreed.

[JM2009]

 

To be honesy i wouldn't trade for Brees at this point, he's not great playing outside and is getting on in age. Brady or Rodgers though agreed.

How much time does Brady really have left, though?

[GoBills808]

Exactly. Luck is better than Tyrod but he isn't so much better that you'd take on his contract for 4 1st round picks. That would be incredibly stupid. You trade that many picks for a Brees, Rodgers, or Brady. That's it.

 

It would help if you understood what people were saying. The part I bolded - no one is saying that isn't true. What jasovon said, that's my position.

Luck has already taken a team to the playoffs on his back, three times. Only the 2014 Colts were even a halfway decent team, and that team was far less talented than the 2016 Bills.

[JM2009]

Luck has already taken a team to the playoffs on his back, three times. Only the 2014 Colts were even a halfway decent team, and that team was far less talented than the 2016 Bills.

And again, if the Bills were in that division they could have won it-esp in 2015. The 2016 Bills were an average team. that's it.And very poorly coached.The Bills with TT went 3-0 against that division in 2015, including a W against Luck and the Colts.

Edited August 31, 2017 by JM2009

[Alphadawg7]

Alphadawg didn't say Luck and Tyrod suffer from the same deficiencies. He said, correctly, that people make the same excuses for their losses. Look in this thread. People saying Luck has a bad offensive line, bad coaching, bad defense, subpar offensive talent... Where have I seen this before? And people like you say these excuses don't count for Tyrod. Now of course these excuses are stronger for Luck - his offensive line is worse than Tyrod's, his defense is worse than Tyrod's, I'd say the offensive talent is about a wash but Tyrod has the far better running game. Coaching is a wash and Luck has had the easier schedule.

 

Clearly there is a relationship between teams and QB performance but certain posters only apply that relationship when talking about QBs that don't play for the Bills. It's just funny to see the excuses pile up for Luck. Of course they are valid excuses, anyone can see Luck is good enough to take a good team to the Super Bowl. But there are valid excuses for Tyrod too. And saying you'd trade 4 1st round picks for a QB who has not shown he is elite at any point, who has abysmal stats in the 1st quarter, who throws too many picks, is ridiculous. It's much more ridiculous than anything Alphadawg has said and it tells me you don't really know how to build a team.

 

Well Said

[BringBackOrton]

Can we lock this this TT thread now?

[Alphadawg7]

Luck made the playoffs more in his first 5 years than Rodgers did.

 

Playing in what was seen as one of the worst divisions in football during those 3 playoff appearances. You can't compare the situation equally...How about you look at Rodgers first 3 postseasons, and see what QB performed better when it mattered most?

 

Hint: Not even close. Tebow has a better postseason resume than Luck lmao

[JM2009]

 

Playing in what was seen as one of the worst divisions in football during those 3 playoff appearances. You can't compare the situation equally...How about you look at Rodgers first 3 postseasons, and see what QB performed better when it mattered most?

 

Hint: Not even close. Tebow has a better postseason resume than Luck lmao

Like I said, the Bills could have won Luck's division in 2015. TT and the Bills were 3-0 against the division.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I'm hoping they put Luck on ice for the year...that way, there'll be a team picking ahead of us who doesn't need a QB.

[GoBills808]

We deserve Tyrod Taylor. You guys have convinced me.

[BringBackOrton]

 

Playing in what was seen as one of the worst divisions in football during those 3 playoff appearances. You can't compare the situation equally...How about you look at Rodgers first 3 postseasons, and see what QB performed better when it mattered most?

 

Hint: Not even close. Tebow has a better postseason resume than Luck lmao

Luck had to beat Denver to go to the AFCCG. That Denver team won the SB the year after.

 

#resume

 

Luck was so good he didn't sit on the bench for 3 seasons. You guys hold that against him. LMAO.

Edited August 31, 2017 by jmc12290

[Billschinatown]

what a boo boo kitty

[HappyDays]

Luck has already taken a team to the playoffs on his back, three times. Only the 2014 Colts were even a halfway decent team, and that team was far less talented than the 2016 Bills.

In 2014, by DVOA, the Colts had the 7th easiest schedule. They beat up on the Titans, Texans, and Jaguars. They lost games against the good teams they went against. Now where have I heard people saying a certain team led by a certain QB have only beaten bad teams?

 

And their defense that year was ranked 13th, again by DVOA. That's better than "halfway decent." Their offense that year was only 17th! Their pass rank was 13th. And that was 3 years ago. Maybe Luck's tendencies have been figured out a bit? His stats have gotten woese. He is one of the worst 1st quarter QBs in the game. He puts his team in holes and sometimes he's able to make it up.

 

Which part of this is so impressive that any team would give up 4 1st round picks? Give up that much for Luck on a rookie contract, maybe. On his current contract that's a laughable position to hold. You're better off using those picks on 2 top 1st round QBs in conjunction with some 2nds and 3rds. You can say Luck is better than Tyrod without being ridiculous.

[JM2009]

We deserve Tyrod Taylor. You guys have convinced me.

No one who supports him as ever said he is the long term answer.

[GoBills808]

In 2014, by DVOA, the Colts had the 7th easiest schedule. They beat up on the Titans, Texans, and Jaguars. They lost games against the good teams they went against. Now where have I heard people saying a certain team led by a certain QB have only beaten bad teams?

 

And their defense that year was ranked 13th, again by DVOA. That's better than "halfway decent." Their offense that year was only 17th! Their pass rank was 13th. And that was 3 years ago. Maybe Luck's tendencies have been figured out a bit? His stats have gotten woese. He is one of the worst 1st quarter QBs in the game. He puts his team in holes and sometimes he's able to make it up.

 

Which part of this is so impressive that any team would give up 4 1st round picks? Give up that much for Luck on a rookie contract, maybe. On his current contract that's a laughable position to hold. You're better off using those picks on 2 top 1st round QBs in conjunction with some 2nds and 3rds. You can say Luck is better than Tyrod without being ridiculous.

No. All I want is for Tyrod Taylor to play quarterback for the Bills in perpetuity.

[JM2009]

Luck had to beat Denver to go to the AFCCG. That Denver team won the SB the year after.

 

#resume

 

Luck was so good he didn't sit on the bench for 3 seasons. You guys hold that against him. LMAO.

The Bills could have won that division in 2015.

No. All I want is for Tyrod Taylor to play quarterback for the Bills in perpetuity.

This is the type of answer folks, when one cannot argue successfully and has been proven wrong. No TT supporter has said he is the long term answer. None.