Royale with Cheese Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Rodgers is clearly not as good as Luck because he sat and waited behind Favre. Lolololololollololololol You're ability to decipher a statement is pretty bad. I mean comically bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 White flagging hard. I apologize for dunking on you over and over and over. That Koolaid must be good at the Cult of Colt. It's weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 That Koolaid must be good at the Cult of Colt. It's weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 You're ability to decipher a statement is pretty bad. I mean comically bad. It must have been the part where he said Rodgers pales in comparison to Luck by primarily examining years where Rodgers was on the bench. That hurt my ability. See I thought a better comparison might be Rodgers first years when he was actually playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 (edited) It must have been the part where he said Rodgers pales in comparison to Luck by primarily examining years where Rodgers was on the bench. That hurt my ability. See I thought a better comparison might be Rodgers first years when he was actually playing. Rodgers didn't start his first 3 years. Why should he get the benefit of learning on the bench behind one of the greats when comparing his career to a kid forced to start at 22 who actually contributed to his team? It's like comparing TT as a first year starter 5 years out to Wilson's rookie year. Ridiculous. Besides, we are comparing from YOUR "5 years after he was drafted," remark. It's not my problem Rodgers sat for 3 years after he was drafted. If we had a time machine and went back to the day Luck was drafted, what would the predictions for his first 5 years and what the Colts would look like 5 years in be? There is no way anyone would have viewed 2017's reality as some sort of resounding success of the greatest QB prospect in a generation. And yet here we are and so many do. But compare him to Rodgers 8 years after he was drafted! Edited September 2, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 But that's the point Alpha. If Luck has the exact same career as Manning, choking in the playoffs etc etc, he'd still be an all-time great. I reject that Luck needed to have the first 5 years of a Brady or a Big Ben to be considered successful. Because Manning sure didn't. As to your point of comparing playoff games, the reason Manning has 3 playoff games compared to Luck's 6 in their first 5 years is because Manning kept losing in the playoffs. Kind of absurd to compare a 6 year player's 4th playoff game to a 2 year player's 4th playoff game, no? White flagging hard. I apologize for dunking on you over and over and over. Then its jut not an accurate comparison then is it? You guys are the ones who are comparing Luck and Manning when there is literally no similarity in their careers, talents, style of play, anything...the only thing they have in common is where they were drafted and by what team...it all ends there. You want to pick just 3 playoff games and compare them to Luck. You want to compare these 2 QBs. Ironically, they do have something else in common...compile stats regular season and struggle more often than not in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Rodgers didn't start his first 3 years. Why should he get the benefit of learning on the bench behind one of the greats when comparing his career to a kid forced to start at 22 who actually contributed to his team? It's like comparing TT as a first year starter 5 years out to Wilson's rookie year. Ridiculous. Besides, we are comparing from YOUR "5 years after he was drafted," remark. It's not my problem Rodgers sat for 3 years after he was drafted. If we had a time machine and went back to the day Luck was drafted, what would the predictions for his first 5 years and what the Colts would look like 5 years in be? There is no way anyone would have viewed 2017's reality as some sort of resounding success of the greatest QB prospect in a generation. And yet here we are and so many do. But compare him to Rodgers 8 years after he was drafted! Whoa dude, get a room. Was Rodgers touted as the greatest QB prospect in a generation? No. That was Luck. He has simply not lived up to any expectation approaching that. You can twist stats around all you want and count this but don't count that but you can't change the fact that he hasn't lived up to expectations. If, 5 years ago, some so called expert had predicted his first five years exactly as they have played out, they would have been laughed out of the room and maybe a job. It's the party line and it must be followed. Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Whoa dude, get a room. Was Rodgers touted as the greatest QB prospect in a generation? No. That was Luck. He has simply not lived up to any expectation approaching that. You can twist stats around all you want and count this but don't count that but you can't change the fact that he hasn't lived up to expectations. If, 5 years ago, some so called expert had predicted his first five years exactly as they have played out, they would have been laughed out of the room and maybe a job. It's the party line and it must be followed. Good job. Thats what is so funny...no one is saying he sucks, some of us just dispute this infallible, mythological elite status they give him despite the fact he hasn't lived up to it YET and now has compounded it with serious health concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Then its jut not an accurate comparison then is it? You guys are the ones who are comparing Luck and Manning when there is literally no similarity in their careers, talents, style of play, anything...the only thing they have in common is where they were drafted and by what team...it all ends there. You want to pick just 3 playoff games and compare them to Luck. You want to compare these 2 QBs. Ironically, they do have something else in common...compile stats regular season and struggle more often than not in the playoffs. I compared Luck's first 5 years to 6 of the best QB's playing in the NFL this decade. And he had accomplished more in his first 5 years than 3 HoFers did. I don't know what else there is to say. Whoa dude, get a room. Was Rodgers touted as the greatest QB prospect in a generation? No. That was Luck. He has simply not lived up to any expectation approaching that. You can twist stats around all you want and count this but don't count that but you can't change the fact that he hasn't lived up to expectations. If, 5 years ago, some so called expert had predicted his first five years exactly as they have played out, they would have been laughed out of the room and maybe a job. It's the party line and it must be followed. Good job. You are railing against facts. The greatest QB prospect in a generation has had a better first 5 years of his career than several Hall of Fame locks. What else do you want? What expectations did you have? Clearly you are arguing with the voices in your head that said Luck was going to be league MVP and win 5 Super Bowls in his first 5 years. Can't help ya there. Thats what is so funny...no one is saying he sucks, some of us just dispute this infallible, mythological elite status they give him despite the fact he hasn't lived up to it YET and now has compounded it with serious health concerns. You realize you are taking the anti-TT crowd stance. Nobody has said this in this thread. Not once. And you called folks "hypocrites." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Thats what is so funny...no one is saying he sucks, some of us just dispute this infallible, mythological elite status they give him despite the fact he hasn't lived up to it YET and now has compounded it with serious health concerns. Who has called him elite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Luck just lost a good WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Who has called him elite? 1. He was touted as the greatest QB prospect in generations.....are you denying this? 2. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the "greatest anything in generations" would project to be elite? Are you denying this was the expectation? 3. If anyone says Luck has not lived up to expectations, apoplectic responses ensue. This thread is 15 pages long after all. So the expectation was elite, but you can't say he hasn't lived up to expectations without getting slaughtered, but nobody has said he is elite? That is crazy train stuff right there. I found a prediction list from Bleacher report in 2012. TBD won't let me link it. It is a list of predictions for Luck, typical of 2012. See if you can find it and tell me how much of it has remotely come true. Luck just lost a good WR. What happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 1. He was touted as the greatest QB prospect in generations.....are you denying this? 2. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the "greatest anything in generations" would project to be elite? Are you denying this was the expectation? 3. If anyone says Luck has not lived up to expectations, apoplectic responses ensue. This thread is 15 pages long after all. So the expectation was elite, but you can't say he hasn't lived up to expectations without getting slaughtered, but nobody has said he is elite? That is crazy train stuff right there. I found a prediction list from Bleacher report in 2012. TBD won't let me link it. It is a list of predictions for Luck, typical of 2012. See if you can find it and tell me how much of it has remotely come true. What happened? Dorsett to NE for Brissett and a third round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Okay if your argument is purely he hasn't yet proven himself an elite generational player then I agree. But I am not sure how he was rated coming out 6 years ago is relevant to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 1. He was touted as the greatest QB prospect in generations.....are you denying this? 2. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the "greatest anything in generations" would project to be elite? Are you denying this was the expectation? 3. If anyone says Luck has not lived up to expectations, apoplectic responses ensue. This thread is 15 pages long after all. So the expectation was elite, but you can't say he hasn't lived up to expectations without getting slaughtered, but nobody has said he is elite? That is crazy train stuff right there. I found a prediction list from Bleacher report in 2012. TBD won't let me link it. It is a list of predictions for Luck, typical of 2012. See if you can find it and tell me how much of it has remotely come true. What happened? And yet I've asked you several times to define "elite" and define your expectations for Luck and all I get is crickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 And yet I've asked you several times to define "elite" and define your expectations for Luck and all I get is crickets. He can't carry a team without good talent around him, which is fine, most QBs can't. So he isn't elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 (edited) He can't carry a team without good talent around him, which is fine, most QBs can't. So he isn't elite. Who fits this bill, in your opinion? How does a QB carry a team? Do they have to carry them to a Super Bowl victory? Or just a playoff run? Edited September 2, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Who fits this bill, in your opinion? Luck, our QB for sure, many others. Brady and Rodgers are elite. But even they can be hurt a bit with enough injuries. People thought Luck would be in there class, but he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 And yet I've asked you several times to define "elite" and define your expectations for Luck and all I get is crickets. It's like porn. You know it when you see it. Scraping by occasionally in the worst division in football in decades probably doesn't qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 It's like porn. You know it when you see it. Scraping by occasionally in the worst division in football in decades probably doesn't qualify any more as elite than a Taylor Swift video does as porn even if they both get a rise out of you. Sorry...I had to. Well maybe YOU do. I've seen several folks in this topic talk about carrying a team and how it makes QB's elite, yet Big Ben hasn't had a good playoff in 7 years, Rivers choked on the best team maybe ever, and hasn't made the playoffs in 4 years, Drew Brees hasn't made the playoffs in 4, and the corpse of Peyton Manning was the version of him who actually won another ring 9 years after his first. So I don't think you really do know. Tom Brady may honestly be the only QB who can "carry" a team currently playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 How does a QB carry a team? Do they have to carry them to a Super Bowl victory? Or just a playoff run? If you're Manning it has to be a Super Bowl. If it's Luck you just have to beat the historically bad Titans, Texans and Jags once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Luck, our QB for sure, many others. Brady and Rodgers are elite. But even they can be hurt a bit with enough injuries. People thought Luck would be in there class, but he isn't. I'm sorry, I was asking about the QB's who can carry a team and thus, are elite. I worded that poorly. If you're Manning it has to be a Super Bowl. If it's Luck you just have to beat the historically bad Titans, Texans and Jags once in a while. The Texans have been a playoff team 3/5 years since Luck was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 I'm sorry, I was asking about the QB's who can carry a team and thus, are elite. I worded that poorly. The Texans have been a playoff team 3/5 years since Luck was drafted. Still think Luck doesn't fit the elite class. Very good, but not elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Still think Luck doesn't fit the elite class. Very good, but not elite. That's okay. Who do you think are elite, currently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Well maybe YOU do. I've seen several folks in this topic talk about carrying a team and how it makes QB's elite, yet Big Ben hasn't had a good playoff in 7 years, Rivers choked on the best team maybe ever, and hasn't made the playoffs in 4 years, Drew Brees hasn't made the playoffs in 4, and the corpse of Peyton Manning was the version of him who actually won another ring 9 years after his first. So I don't think you really do know. Tom Brady may honestly be the only QB who can "carry" a team currently playing. I don't think a QB should have to carry a team. I will side with you on that. I don't think Luck has done anything approaching it, but he doesn't have to do that to be elite. He does have to do more than he has done. His division has been God awful since he arrived. He hasn't had to do much to win it and he hasn't dominated it. His bloated salary doesn't help build the team but again, that is not on him. If you think he is elite I'm guessing you think Carmelo Anthony is elite. He puts up great stats too while his cap hit chokes the team. The Texans have been a playoff team 3/5 years since Luck was drafted. Are you kidding with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 I don't think a QB should have to carry a team. I will side with you on that. I don't think Luck has done anything approaching it, but he doesn't have to do that to be elite. He does have to do more than he has done. His division has been God awful since he arrived. He hasn't had to do much to win it and he hasn't dominated it. His bloated salary doesn't help build the team but again, that is not on him. If you think he is elite I'm guessing you think Carmelo Anthony is elite. He puts up great stats too while his cap hit chokes the team. Are you kidding with that? The greatest QB prospect in a generation has had a better first 5 years of his career than several Hall of Fame locks. What else do you want? What expectations did you have? And yet I've asked you several times to define "elite" and define your expectations for Luck and all I get is crickets. Who fits this bill, in your opinion? How does a QB carry a team? Do they have to carry them to a Super Bowl victory? Or just a playoff run? Answer these questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 F5 The colts and pats trade. Brisset to Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Answer these questions. I'm sure whatever I say you'll either call it unreasonable or twist things to show how Luck is elite. So it doesn't matter what I say. But he is still not elite no matter how much you worship him because the press said to worship him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 I'm sure whatever I say you'll either call it unreasonable or twist things to show how Luck is elite. So it doesn't matter what I say. But he is still not elite no matter how much you worship him because the press said to worship him. You can't tell me he's not elite until you define it. Words mean specific things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 You can't tell me he's not elite until you define it. Words mean specific things. Not what you see here at 9:40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Not what you see here at 9:40 Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 That's okay. Who do you think are elite, currently? Brady still is, Rodgers, Carr may even make this list, maybe. Is Wilson-I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) Brady still is, Rodgers, Carr may even make this list, maybe. Is Wilson-I don't know.Wilson is not elite. No way. Not even close. Brady is elite, Rodgers is elite and Drew Brees is also still elite (he hasn't just had a BAD defense he has had a D that over a 3 or 4 year period has been historically bad). Matt Ryan had an elite year in 2016 and Big Ben had a slightly down 2016 but had been elite level the 3 years before. So for me it is Brady, Rodgers and Brees then Ryan and Ben in borderline territory. The next group after that are definite franchise guys but not elite. Luck is in that group at the moment. Edited September 3, 2017 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Wilson is not elite. No way. Not even close. Brady is elite, Rodgers is elite and Drew Brees is also still elite (he hasn't just had a BAD defense he has had a D that over a 3 or 4 year period has been historically bad. Matt Ryan had an elite year in 2016 and Big Ben had a slightly down 2016 but had been elite level the 3 years before. Thanks for the reminders. I forgot Ryan and Ben. Brees has to decline sometime. Maybe this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 @RapSheet Sources: The #Colts are planning on starting QB Jacoby Brissett on Sunday vs. #AZCardinals. Former starter Scott Tolzien goes to the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 They could be a perfect trading partner if they finish like 2-14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Are the Colts tanking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Are the Colts tanking? Ha no, tanking would be keeping Tolzien as starter. He was brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Huh? He doesn't believe in judging a player by their total body of work. He will cherry pick a few games or plays here and there as his evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 I'm sure whatever I say you'll either call it unreasonable or twist things to show how Luck is elite. So it doesn't matter what I say. But he is still not elite no matter how much you worship him because the press said to worship him. Don't confuse TBD with a press room. You're arguing with people who want to engage with you about specifics, and responding by saying that you disapprove of his press is the metaphorical equivalent of hand-waving. Pretty much all of the informed posters here have the ability to dig deeper than mouthing cliches from the press, so in this particular context bringing it up is a red herring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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