CTE in nearly 90 percent of football players

[GaryPinC]

 

Certainly smarter than people who didn't read "the science" but think they understand it.

 

The study was facile. Useful...but simplistic and hardly conclusive. The Times' article is less scientific than Gary's post, above (which wouldn't be winning any medals for its scienceyness anytime soon.)

 

Just some facts and perspectives, no science there. The science on this is in its infancy. You'll have to forgive the 10 fold over-inflation of those 2 numbers. Was trying to elicit some sort of reasoned response from the poster. Oh well.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20170808/baltimore-ravens-offensive-lineman-john-urschel-retires-abruptly

 

In a related story, Ravens OL John Urschel retired due to CTE study. He's the mathematician doing PhD in MIT on math.

 

 

What he's going to find is, this impairment will come back later on. He is now more susceptible to even minor bodily jolts or shocks. His relative youth will negate the impact of this MTBI he suffered from football for now - he is still likely undergoing the last growth stage of the brain and that stage will help he not feel the impact of MTBI. And so, because of that he will think it is "cured"

 

But he will feel its impact in adulthood. His mental faculties will get impaired from time to time. He is going to find that there will be times he can't understand his own work. He will feel confused and betrayed. And unable to grasp what is happening because you literally have mental short-wiring.

 

I applaud him. This is John choosing the rest of his life - my guess is he still has 60-75 years more to live. Live well John.

As someone who does have an active interest in concussions, I'm curious. Why will he be susceptible to all these things moving forward?

 

My daughter had a concussion (playing in the street, slipped on gravel for a header off the concrete) and it took her about 3 months to recover fully. She's been perfectly normal for 2 years now with no reappearance of anything like this. I have a long time friend who's had multiple concussions over 20 years and recovered from all them. Beyond being a mush-head, she exhibits none of these symptoms and hasn't had any long term issues like this. I ask them both regularly beyond the time I spend with them.

[boyst]

 

Just some facts and perspectives, no science there. The science on this is in its infancy. You'll have to forgive the 10 fold over-inflation of those 2 numbers. Was trying to elicit some sort of reasoned response from the poster. Oh well.

 

As someone who does have an active interest in concussions, I'm curious. Why will he be susceptible to all these things moving forward?

 

My daughter had a concussion (playing in the street, slipped on gravel for a header off the concrete) and it took her about 3 months to recover fully. She's been perfectly normal for 2 years now with no reappearance of anything like this. I have a long time friend who's had multiple concussions over 20 years and recovered from all them. Beyond being a mush-head, she exhibits none of these symptoms and hasn't had any long term issues like this. I ask them both regularly beyond the time I spend with them.

I've had at least 4 confirmed concussions. Probably 6-7 through amateur sports and at least one from farming when stampeded

 

The only lingering effects I feel are common symptoms of being human. I forget things. Some times I'm blue. Some times I have mood swings. Some times anything. I would bet i habe some brain damage but by no means is it a plausible excuse for my behavior at any time.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I've had at least 4 confirmed concussions. Probably 6-7 through amateur sports and at least one from farming when stampeded

 

The only lingering effects I feel are common symptoms of being human. I forget things. Some times I'm blue. Some times I have mood swings. Some times anything. I would bet i habe some brain damage but by no means is it a plausible excuse for my behavior at any time.

I agree. Dementia and Alzheimer's is a major epidemic in the world today. Sure, there are stories about domestic violence and the like with the elderly, but it is far from frequent. Yet every time a former NFL player does somentimg stupid we blame it on CTE. It just doesn't make sense to me. Edited July 28, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Benjamin Franklin]

 

 

Risk in MMA is real. Risk in Football is real. They are just discovering other aspects of it and reporting it now.

 

You can always find adults to play football. I just wonder how much longer you'll find kids.

 

And as to equipment in an earlier post, there's a limit to what and how you can distribute force on a blow to the head. A hit to the head will shake your brain in your skull.

[Benjamin Franklin]

 

Just some facts and perspectives, no science there. The science on this is in its infancy. You'll have to forgive the 10 fold over-inflation of those 2 numbers. Was trying to elicit some sort of reasoned response from the poster. Oh well.

 

As someone who does have an active interest in concussions, I'm curious. Why will he be susceptible to all these things moving forward?

 

My daughter had a concussion (playing in the street, slipped on gravel for a header off the concrete) and it took her about 3 months to recover fully. She's been perfectly normal for 2 years now with no reappearance of anything like this. I have a long time friend who's had multiple concussions over 20 years and recovered from all them. Beyond being a mush-head, she exhibits none of these symptoms and hasn't had any long term issues like this. I ask them both regularly beyond the time I spend with them.

 

If you have a friend who's had 20 concussions, he's in a really tough risk group. CTE research thus far points in only one direction. I've been in seminars on this and there are no studies stating that multiple concussions or playing sports with head contact and multiple minor brain injury moments (like football) show brain trauma at the same rate as a control group: Said another way, there are no studies that show 10 years of football is as good for your brain as 10 years of chess.

 

Maybe you think that a study like that is coming. I guess it's possible. But right now, the studies correlate head banging sports with CTE and later life brain dysfunction. Yes the samples on hand are biased. Since the brain is actually injured in a head hit, and your brain is "you," this isn't a shocking correlation.

 

Causation we don't have yet.

 

And I repeat: Who would willingly put their kid in harm's way like this? There are a million other sports than boxing and football. Those sports are premised on head blows. You cannot avoid them. And the risk in soccer can even be mitigated (and the sport is starting to enforce rules to penalize headers and educate coaches on "no headers" for kids) but if not, then throw that in the same risk category.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Benjamin Franklin

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

If you have a friend who's had 20 concussions, he's in a really tough risk group. CTE research thus far points in only one direction. I've been in seminars on this and there are no studies stating that multiple concussions or playing sports with head contact and multiple minor brain injury moments (like football) show brain trauma at the same rate as a control group: Said another way, there are no studies that show 10 years of football is as good for your brain as 10 years of chess.

 

Maybe you think that a study like that is coming. I guess it's possible. But right now, the studies correlate head banging sports with CTE and later life brain dysfunction. Yes the samples on hand are biased. Since the brain is actually injured in a head hit, and your brain is "you," this isn't a shocking correlation.

 

Causation we don't have yet.

 

And I repeat: Who would willingly put their kid in harm's way like this? There are a million other sports than boxing and football. Those sports are premised on head blows. You cannot avoid them. And the risk in soccer can even be mitigated (and the sport is starting to enforce rules to penalize headers and educate coaches on "no headers" for kids) but if not, then throw that in the same risk category.

If you were to tour neighborhoods where many NFL players grew up you'd see why a parent would allow their child to play football. Playing football is a far healthier outlet than roaming the streets. This still holds true even when taking CTE into consideration.

[Benjamin Franklin]

If you were to tour neighborhoods where many NFL players grew up you'd see why a parent would allow their child to play football. Playing football is a far healthier outlet than roaming the streets. This still holds true even when taking CTE into consideration.

That's not really an argument for football over other sports. And it applies to a fraction of the youth football nationwide. I don't want to castigate parents. Just point noting out that increasing awareness of this may gut youth football.

[boyst]

If you were to tour neighborhoods where many NFL players grew up you'd see why a parent would allow their child to play football. Playing football is a far healthier outlet than roaming the streets. This still holds true even when taking CTE into consideration.

that's just laughable. I needed that.

 

A socio economic demographic creates NFL players. Loooooooove it

[CanadianFan]

 

As someone who does have an active interest in concussions, I'm curious. Why will he be susceptible to all these things moving forward?

 

My daughter had a concussion (playing in the street, slipped on gravel for a header off the concrete) and it took her about 3 months to recover fully. She's been perfectly normal for 2 years now with no reappearance of anything like this. I have a long time friend who's had multiple concussions over 20 years and recovered from all them. Beyond being a mush-head, she exhibits none of these symptoms and hasn't had any long term issues like this. I ask them both regularly beyond the time I spend with them.

 

Childhood concussion can have an impact much later on in life. I had a very bad concussion when I was a kid. blacked out and was bed ridden for a few days due to impact. I soon recovered fully seemingly. I have dealt with severe depressions since teen years. Is it related to my childhood concussion? I do not know. The only strong correlation that medical community knows is concussions often lead to depression/related issues and head injury specialists often prescribe anti-depressants once patients exhibit symptoms.

 

There's a reason for young people to recover from concussion and fast - their brains are still growing. Humans have distinct growth states to mid/late 20s and that helps with recovery.

 

As an adult past mid-20s to 30, the brain doesn't "grow" anymore that presumably helps with the fast healing process.

 

Part of the problem with concussions is, externally to most, we look "fine". Internally a lot of small things are going wrong that unless one has a high degree of self-awareness. So in the past, I didn't self-recognize the issues I was having. Yes one does get "dumb" from head injury.

 

So your friend's "mushhead" is part of his faculties not performing optimally. I'm a financial analyst, and there have been times when I couldn't understand my own work, and my physical symptoms were seemingly ok. Mental processing speed impact - it's like having a slow computer - it can't respond well in real time, especially in social interactions. It becomes an impairment in professional interactions. This goes up and down.

 

Emotional regulation - you've heard of hockey players who couldn't control impulses and bashed the ref. The story of former Bills kicker who left home because he couldn't control his own sudden bouts of anger. That's just one emotion but most anti-social one that impacts others. Thoughts and moods can go to extremes.

 

Why people who've had concussions once have them more often, from lesser impacts is a question medical science has no answer on at this time. We can only speculate or theorize why that may be.

 

But the brain does have capacity to repair itself. It's called neuroplasticity, a fairly recent but not well understood recent discovery. Some lucky people have a genetic pre-disposition for it. The rest of us have to do things to promote it. I have found certain supplements help with the recovery. Some of my findings have been from this year.

 

If there is one thing you do for your daughter, see to it that she takes Omega3 with a high DHA count (up to 600mg) on a daily basis from now on. It helps with her brain development. A large part of our brain (30-60%) is made up of Omega3 and is building block for our brain.

 

Better awareness can only help us deal with it better going forward.

[Luxy312]

So MMA, Boxing, and Football are all violent sports that have the side effect of CTE. Now that it's been identified and there's a definitive causal relationship, what does that mean? All of these athletes make good money. I would simply posit that if any athlete doesn't want to take the risk, that they shouldn't take a career in any of those sports. While they're at it, don't go into logging, fishing, agriculture, or electrical work. Stay away from construction and aircraft engineering as well. They have some of the highest death rates (on the job) of any career, but pay a heck of a lot less. Putting CTE aside, we've known for 30+ years that football is a violent sport, with a short career span. We've known that these athlete's bodies at 35-40 years old are often broken down. Should we be so shocked that it is also true of their brains? At least they get to wear helmets. I would be EXTREMELY interested in now the percentages compare for MMA and boxing. To me it comes down to perceived risk vs reward.

[CodeMonkey]

Knowing all the risks, I wouldn't trade my years of playing football for anything.

But if you had a son born today, knowing what you know, would you allow him to play tackle football?

[Benjamin Franklin]

So MMA, Boxing, and Football are all violent sports that have the side effect of CTE. Now that it's been identified and there's a definitive causal relationship, what does that mean? All of these athletes make good money. I would simply posit that if any athlete doesn't want to take the risk, that they shouldn't take a career in any of those sports. While they're at it, don't go into logging, fishing, agriculture, or electrical work. Stay away from construction and aircraft engineering as well. They have some of the highest death rates (on the job) of any career, but pay a heck of a lot less. Putting CTE aside, we've known for 30+ years that football is a violent sport, with a short career span. We've known that these athlete's bodies at 35-40 years old are often broken down. Should we be so shocked that it is also true of their brains? At least they get to wear helmets. I would be EXTREMELY interested in now the percentages compare for MMA and boxing. To me it comes down to perceived risk vs reward.

The adult question is easy. Go participate in the head cinder block smashing olympics if you want. But what about kids?

But if you had a son born today, knowing what you know, would you allow him to play tackle football?

Yesh, this is the issue.

[Luxy312]

But if you had a son born today, knowing what you know, would you allow him to play tackle football?

 

So CTE is the ONLY risk? That's just stupid. Run track and field or play tennis and trash your knees. Be a catcher in baseball and do the same. Be a pitcher and have to have TJ surgery. There are risks in every physical sport that you play. Knowing that for every 1 million children playing sports right now, roughly 0.005% of them will play at a high level professionally. Many of those won't even last a few years. Just golf or chess club? Shelter your kids from everything because the world is scary? Sounds pretty accurate for this millennial generation and even more accurate for the next generations to come.

[Benjamin Franklin]

 

So CTE is the ONLY risk? That's just stupid. Run track and field or play tennis and trash your knees. Be a catcher in baseball and do the same. Be a pitcher and have to have TJ surgery. There are risks in every physical sport that you play. Knowing that for every 1 million children playing sports right now, roughly 0.005% of them will play at a high level professionally. Many of those won't even last a few years. Just golf or chess club? Shelter your kids from everything because the world is scary? Sounds pretty accurate for this millennial generation and even more accurate for the next generations to come.

That's a straw man argument and you know it. No one in this thread is saying that.

 

Blowing out your knee and blowing up your mind are not comparable.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

that's just laughable. I needed that.

 

A socio economic demographic creates NFL players. Loooooooove it

What's laughable is that you don't think upper class suburban parents are more likely to cringe at the idea of thier child playing football. What explains the popularity of soccer with northeastern yuppies?

[CanadianFan]

Ben Roethlisberger not committing beyond this season to football due to CTE concerns

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20184874/pittsburgh-steelers-quarterback-ben-roethlisberger-shares-thought-process-future

 

 

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

So CTE is the ONLY risk? That's just stupid. Run track and field or play tennis and trash your knees. Be a catcher in baseball and do the same. Be a pitcher and have to have TJ surgery. There are risks in every physical sport that you play. Knowing that for every 1 million children playing sports right now, roughly 0.005% of them will play at a high level professionally. Many of those won't even last a few years. Just golf or chess club? Shelter your kids from everything because the world is scary? Sounds pretty accurate for this millennial generation and even more accurate for the next generations to come.

Life has risks. That's my problem with the CTE issue. I don't doubt that signs of CTE are shown in former football players. I also won't be ignorant enough to claim that it isn't real. The issue I have is people who make it seem as simple as saying football is bad. It is a far deeper issue than that.

 

There are too many unanswered questions. At what point do cognitive problems begin? How severe are they compared to the normal aging process? Lets not use examples of criminal behavior as being a result of CTE. Sadly that is what the media has done. I don't doubt CTE, I just question if we can quantify how much it really impacts former players. What about all the former college players who don't make the pros? The type of guys who become doctors,lawyers, and CEO's. There are millions of professionally sucessfull former football players. At what point does CTE "ruin" their life? It's far more complicated than just saying football shouldn't be played by humans.

Ben Roethlisberger not committing beyond this season to football due to CTE concerns

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20184874/pittsburgh-steelers-quarterback-ben-roethlisberger-shares-thought-process-future

 

 

Then people will say that Ben doesn't seem mentally sharp. These same people who probably didn't hear him talk when he was a rookie.

[Wayne Cubed]

Ben Roethlisberger not committing beyond this season to football due to CTE concerns

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20184874/pittsburgh-steelers-quarterback-ben-roethlisberger-shares-thought-process-future

 

 

Come on, that's not what the article said and not what he said. Hell thats not even the title of the article.

 

He said he would weigh the risk when he makes his decision. Also said his kids are part of his decision. Why not say this:

 

Ben Roesthlisberger not committing to next season because of his kids.

[Adam]

Which is why we need preventative testing for CTE. I cannot believe its not part of the physical for all draft eligible players and free agents. The NFL is a ruthless business.

And it's also why they hired the son of a former politician as commissioner. They are fighting tooth and nail.

[boyst]

What's laughable is that you don't think upper class suburban parents are more likely to cringe at the idea of thier child playing football. What explains the popularity of soccer with northeastern yuppies?

thise parents always did.

And it's also why they hired the son of a former politician as commissioner. They are fighting tooth and nail.

you didnt grt his humor

[DC Tom]

Ben Roethlisberger not committing beyond this season to football due to CTE concerns

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20184874/pittsburgh-steelers-quarterback-ben-roethlisberger-shares-thought-process-future

 

 

 

Ruthlessbooger is such a great big dope, I'd think it's impossible to diagnose CTE in him anyway. He was probably born with it.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

thise parents always did.

you didnt grt his humor

I don't think they did, but we can agree to disagree. Not many kids if any played soccer in the 50's. If you don't think that many upper class suburban soccer players wouldn't have been football players in the past you are mistaken. Do you seriously think that a 1950's suburban parent would discourage their child from playing football? They had no reason to. Doctors smoked in exam rooms back then for crying out loud. No one regardless of class was worried about things being "dangerous". Edited July 28, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Mikie2times]

Knowing all the risks, I wouldn't trade my years of playing football for anything.

I don't have kids, if I did this would be a very hard decision. I agree with your statement, it taught me so many valuable lessons. It's really not a good time sport. I remember having to soak in ice baths in between two a days because my shin splints. All the times you have to push yourself past what you think you can. The team building. Football is very unique in character development for youth. I think it's worth the risk. Past high school, I don't know. College is pretty damn violent and most kids will never play pro ball.

Edited July 29, 2017 by KzooMike

[boyst]

 

Ruthlessbooger is such a great big dope, I'd think it's impossible to diagnose CTE in him anyway. He was probably born with it.

if you ever met him or talked to him, you can tell he is just an aloof guy who doesn't much engage people the ways others do.

 

but he has a very close personality.

 

met him twice in high school

[26CornerBlitz]

@SInow

'He has no idea what dealing with someone who has CTE is like' — Ex-wife of CTE victim rips Jamal Adams' comments

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/08/01/cte-victim-criticizes-jamal-adams-remarks

 

The ex-wife of Pittsburgh Steelers offensive lineman Justin Strzelczyk ripped comments made by New York Jets rookie safety Jamal Adams about CTE ​(chronic traumatic encephalopathy) and player safety.

 

Adams was asked about player safety during a forum with Jets fans on Monday and said, "Literally, if I had the perfect place to die, I'd die on the field."

 

[papazoid]

Roger Goodell: Football players live longer than non-football players

 

“The average NFL player lives five years longer than you,” Goodell said. “So their lifespan is actually longer and healthier. And I think because of all the advancements, including the medical care, that number is going to even increase for them.”

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/01/roger-goodell-football-players-live-longer-than-non-football-players/

[26CornerBlitz]

Roger Goodell: Football players live longer than non-football players

 

“The average NFL player lives five years longer than you,” Goodell said. “So their lifespan is actually longer and healthier. And I think because of all the advancements, including the medical care, that number is going to even increase for them.”

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/01/roger-goodell-football-players-live-longer-than-non-football-players/

 

Nice to hear that Rog, but there's quality of life to be considered in later years beyond longevity.

[SWATeam]

Roger Goodell: Football players live longer than non-football players

 

“The average NFL player lives five years longer than you,” Goodell said. “So their lifespan is actually longer and healthier. And I think because of all the advancements, including the medical care, that number is going to even increase for them.”

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/01/roger-goodell-football-players-live-longer-than-non-football-players/

I would like to see their lifespan compared to others with the same income levels

[DriveFor1Outta5]

@SInow

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'He has no idea what dealing with someone who has CTE is like' Ex-wife of CTE victim rips Jamal Adams' comments

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/08/01/cte-victim-criticizes-jamal-adams-remarks

 

 

I completely understand where this guy's ex-wife is coming from. She has been through a lot. Being aware that her ex was diagnosed with CTE makes it natural to blame football. However, is there any concrete credible scientific evidence that can conclusively link CTE to criminal behavior? I'm tired of the media and fans drawing this conclusion concerning player behavior.

[row_33]

I would like to see their lifespan compared to others with the same income levels

 

Tons of the filthy rich die very young.

[SWATeam]

 

Tons of the filthy rich die very young.

There is a positive correlation between income levels and lifespan

[y2zipper]

To be fair, this was a controlled study. They studied brains only from people who were thought to have symptoms of CTE and they found CTE. In general, it's a fair point that the quality of life of somebody that makes it to the NFL is better than that of an average person.

 

Concussions are a real issue in sports and you'll see changes, the biggest of which is you'll see kids going in later and finishing their careers earlier. Instead of in at a young age, it'll be flag football until high school, tackle in high school and college, and a shorter NFL career. That way kids are playing are playing close to 12 or 13 years instead of 20 or 25.

[Buffalo716]

I suffered 10 concussions playing D1 ball and I know I suffer from CTE.

 

My life is fine and my Long term memory is great but my short term is shot... not to mention the ear ringing and fogginess

 

But I would never take back playing the game I love to the highest degree I could achieve

 

If my child wants to play, I'll let him but probably push him toward the QB position

[CanadianFan]

I suffered 10 concussions playing D1 ball and I know I suffer from CTE.

 

My life is fine and my Long term memory is great but my short term is shot... not to mention the ear ringing and fogginess

 

But I would never take back playing the game I love to the highest degree I could achieve

 

If my child wants to play, I'll let him but probably push him toward the QB position

 

 

I wish you well. I hope you are doing some things to get better. I'll send you a PM on what's working for me.

Edited August 1, 2017 by CanadianFan

[C.Biscuit97]

I suffered 10 concussions playing D1 ball and I know I suffer from CTE.

 

My life is fine and my Long term memory is great but my short term is shot... not to mention the ear ringing and fogginess

 

But I would never take back playing the game I love to the highest degree I could achieve

 

If my child wants to play, I'll let him but probably push him toward the QB position

Damn, that sucks man. I've "seen stars" multiple times but never got a concussion that I'm aware of. The only major injury I had playing football was a fairly minor knee injury. I actually got hurt worse playing baseball, hockey, & running track (I blew out my hip).

 

As for qb, my high school qb got an awful concussion and it seems like a position that can suffer some major head injuries.

I don't have kids, if I did this would be a very hard decision. I agree with your statement, it taught me so many valuable lessons. It's really not a good time sport. I remember having to soak in ice baths in between two a days because my shin splints. All the times you have to push yourself past what you think you can. The team building. Football is very unique in character development for youth. I think it's worth the risk. Past high school, I don't know. College is pretty damn violent and most kids will never play pro ball.

 

Great post. Honestly, college football becomes a job and that sometimes is worse than the physical pain.

 

I think you have to let your kids choose themselves. As you said, football teaches/ reveals character. I see no point in pop warner football as a kid. Flag and 7-7 leagues are enough until high school.

[Buffalo716]

Damn, that sucks man. I've "seen stars" multiple times but never got a concussion that I'm aware of. The only major injury I had playing football was a fairly minor knee injury. I actually got hurt worse playing baseball, hockey, & running track (I blew out my hip).

As for qb, my high school qb got an awful concussion and it seems like a position that can suffer some major head injuries.

 

Great post. Honestly, college football becomes a job and that sometimes is worse than the physical pain.

I think you have to let your kids choose themselves. As you said, football teaches/ reveals character. I see no point in pop warner football as a kid. Flag and 7-7 leagues are enough until high school.

Definitely. There isn't a safe position in football.

 

But as a CB and return man and occasional scat back I took a beating. Wouldn't want my kid being a RB.

 

Seen lots of blown out hips and injuries in track. Rough

Edited August 1, 2017 by Buffalo716

[C.Biscuit97]

Definitely. There isn't a safe position in football.

 

But as a CB and return man and occasional scat back I took a beating. Wouldn't want my kid being a RB.

 

Seen lots of blown out hips and injuries in track. Rough

Kicker?

[Buffalo716]

Kicker?

I've seen a kicker break his nose.

 

Break his leg

 

And been trucked

 

Hell of a lot safer than any other position but one day it will still be only you between the end zone and a sprinting Christian mccaffery or David Johnson lol

[DC Tom]

To be fair, this was a controlled study. They studied brains only from people who were thought to have symptoms of CTE and they found CTE.

 

That's not the definition of a "controlled study."

[papazoid]

Jared Veldheer: CTE study triggered day off to think about future

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/02/jared-veldheer-cte-study-triggered-day-off-to-think-about-future/