buffuct Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Pepper at #10 is ridiculous. Honestly, he has a better chance at being our 2nd round pick than our first. A lot of guys here, but all of these make sense at #10 to varying degrees: Davis, foster, Howard, Hooker, Adams, lattimore Run to the podium and draft at #10: Hooker, adams Fair value at #10: Davis, foster, Howard, lattimore. The #10 pick will have a lot of teams interested. I don't know which teams have multiple firsts or a first and an early 2nd, but my dream scenario would be to trade #10, for a first and an early 2nd and get: First: Davis, foster, Howard, lattimore, Williams or someone similar Early 2nd: Mahomes Our 2nd: Budda Baker or similar One can dream.... Btw, this thread is very good. A lot of knowledge, good rationale and justified arguments. Refresh I I agree with everything but mahomes other than that you are right on.. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo044 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I would be okay with Howard in the first, secondary (or a QB, if one falls) in the second and a WR in the third. My concerns: Is Howard a workout warrior, given his mediocre stats or is it a product of Alabama's system? What makes us think tyrod would be able to utilize him, considering his lack of targets to Clay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Which ones other than CB? Safety is important in this scheme as is the front 7 I do agree about Foster. Unfortunately we wasted a 2nd last year and a 4th this year on Ragland, a guy who isn't good in the 4-3 scheme Who knows where Ragland fits. He isnt unathletic or slow. He is down 20-25lbs from his days at Alabama. He is also a very long player, which helps make up some of that speed he may lack to be that sideline to sideline player we need. I think he will be fine. Preston Brown is much less athletic had his best season in a 4-3 weakside LB as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffuct Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 With the zone defensive scheme, I don't think you need to draft a CB in the first round. Really wish we would have signed shead from Seattle. Using a 1st rounder to replace a guy you lost in FA is backwards thinking saftey is way more important than cb in scheme. shead wouldn't play this year. but we still need cb help and fast lb help. pressure is key in this D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) I would be okay with Howard in the first, secondary (or a QB, if one falls) in the second and a WR in the third. My concerns: Is Howard a workout warrior, given his mediocre stats or is it a product of Alabama's system? What makes us think tyrod would be able to utilize him, considering his lack of targets to Clay? I can get on board with Howard because he can lineup everywhere, blocks in the run game, and Clay may not be a long-term solution at TE. He could potentially be our #2 target on offense, which Clay is now. Thats another thing for the WR people, this WR would likely be the #3 target, maybe #4 after McCoy. Edited March 19, 2017 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo044 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Didn't know Ragland was down that much weight, where have you read that? Valid argument about Howard plus there was that article that buffalo coveted him (smoke screen or not). Problem I have with Howard is when I watch him I see that TE that Detroit drafted in Rd one a few years back. Can't remember his name. He turned out good but not worth a first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I will be pretty disappointed if we draft a CB. This has nothing to do with whether or not it is a current need. Here's how I look at it... We've created a need at CB by our own poor roster management dating back to the early 2000's. Similar to how we've misunderstood the value of the RB position, the Bills have created and filled their own holes in the secondary... In 1999 we drafted Winfield in the first round to fill the hole at DB. In 2001 we drafted Clements in the first round and had a 1-2 tandem in Winfield/Clements. In 2003 we let Winfield go In 2006 we let Clements go ... We use UFA Jabari Greer and 4th RD McGee to plug in these holes eventually, but lose Greer to FA, draft Whitner and begin a new cycle at the position... ... In 2008 we draft McKelvin in the first. In 2012 we draft Gilmore in the first. In 2015 we draft Darby with our first pick (2nd round). In 2016 we get rid of Mckelvin In 2017 we get rid of Gilmore As much as this is a condemnation of the free agent era, it's a frustrating look at how many times we have created and filled holes due to poor roster management. If the argument is that GIlmore is too expensive, well then it's a terrible investment of a first round pick. All the CBs (Winfield, Clements, Gilmore, Whitner and even McKelvin to an extent) were let go to the market because they were too expensive. We continually fall for this trick, and then panic when it's time to pony up. Winfield was probably the only player worth the big contract, and when you look back, the only recurring trend in this ineptitude is that we've missed the playoffs. Yes, other teams have let a lot of quality starters walk because they were too expensive. The Patriots are pretty famous for drafting a player and not resigning him, but I'll argue that for us, these are mostly top 10 picks we're talking about here, not last in the first round. These are positions of value in the draft board that are sure-thing starters...and yet we seem to cyclically release and draft DB's anyways. I've brought this up over the years and I'm often looked at as not understanding how the team is being built. Well, at the 17 year mark all I can do is throw my hands in the air and wonder how wrong have I been? If you're going to let Gilmore go, fine. I don't have a problem with it, really, but you need to STOP the cycle there. You need to use the back half of the draft and bring on depth players to compete for the position. You cannot afford to simply replace with another first round pick because in 4-5 years (less if you count Darby) it will just happen again. To me, it's simple...if you're going to keep getting these high draft picks you NEED to gamble on the game changer, the QB. If you try and fill a position of need, you're going to soon release that player and be right back in the same spot in a few years. If you hit on a QB, the decision is easy. You keep him, you pay him, etc. Every year we go down this same road, every year we scratch our heads at how all these other teams are always in it while we're out. You can't solve ANY problem until you solve the QB problem. TLDR: Don't draft a CB. It's a waste and we'll just let him go in 4-5 years like we've done several times during the drought. Draft a QB. Even if it's a swing and a miss it's a better value. My thoughts exactly on the CB position. They have to keep using high picks because they let their own CBs leave. One of the reasons why we're stuck in mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 So your willing to count on a guy who had 14 receptions last season to be our number two? Number two WR is still a major question mark. Drafting a reciever wouldn't be crazy at all simply based on that fact alone. You are correct.....the team appears to have many third and fourth receivers but no #2. That said if a top rated CB or S is on the board, it would be a good problem to have in making the selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I would be okay with Howard in the first, secondary (or a QB, if one falls) in the second and a WR in the third. My concerns: Is Howard a workout warrior, given his mediocre stats or is it a product of Alabama's system? What makes us think tyrod would be able to utilize him, considering his lack of targets to Clay? I think Dennison has a totally different scheme to get TE and slot receivers open than what we applied last two years with TT. More of a "move" style, lots of PA roll outs, cutting the field in half with receivers flowing in the same direction as the roll out making for more run after catch style plays. I was never a fan of the 6 and 12 yard "hitch" routes we constantly ran last two seasons. Anyway, Howard has experience with this style with Alabama. They applied a lot of the play action roll out crossing routes to get him involved as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Didn't know Ragland was down that much weight, where have you read that? Valid argument about Howard plus there was that article that buffalo coveted him (smoke screen or not). Problem I have with Howard is when I watch him I see that TE that Detroit drafted in Rd one a few years back. Can't remember his name. He turned out good but not worth a first I think that was Pettigrew. Supposedly an 'all round' TE, yet never really has caught enough passes to justify the label. Big solid blocker though, but hardly what you want from a 1st round pick at the position. Not that I know much about the various prospects, but it's also being said that the TE group is one of the best ever. Taking one with our 1st rounder, might qualify as being as wasteful as taking a CB, when we could have alternatives, e.g. LB, at other positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I think if Sidney Jones was healthy he would def be in the fold for us. Icould see Barnett or Taco being in the fold for us too. However, I think, at this point it will be between Williams and Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 i think if all db's are gone they will look at OJ real hard . having another oj would be cool . maybe ease a little pain with a user name like yours,it's no wonder you feel a little pain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 You don't take the 3rd rated prospect at a position just because it is a need. What I mean is that Hooker and Adams are probably gone, so you are not taking a safety. In terms of CB, there isn't much high end talent. The 2nd rated guy isn't much difference than the 5th rated guy. I am also scared of Lattimore. I have heard some things about him that scare me (personal choice decisions). In such a deep draft, you are better waiting. It would be really nice to get another 2nd round pick and be able to get a safety and CB. There are just so many options in the 2nd that could start right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 You don't take the 3rd rated prospect at a position just because it is a need. What I mean is that Hooker and Adams are probably gone, so you are not taking a safety. In terms of CB, there isn't much high end talent. The 2nd rated guy isn't much difference than the 5th rated guy. I am also scared of Lattimore. I have heard some things about him that scare me (personal choice decisions). In such a deep draft, you are better waiting. It would be really nice to get another 2nd round pick and be able to get a safety and CB. There are just so many options in the 2nd that could start right away. Lattimore scares me because of his injury history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Get your QB of the future in Rd 1... If you can trade down abit and still get the guy you want fine... Get your CB/WR in rds 2 and or 3... If you can trade down and pick up an extra 2nd or high 3rd that gives you even more flexibility... Until TT can show that he is even capable of integrating Clay (our 7mill/yr TE) into the offense it's just plain silly to talk about drafting yet another TE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 It's Peppers at 10 watch. I certainly hope not. He might drop to the 2nd round. Guy doesn't have a true position and doesn't make plays in coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 You don't take the 3rd rated prospect at a position just because it is a need. What I mean is that Hooker and Adams are probably gone, so you are not taking a safety. Just because a player is 3rd rated at his position doesn't mean that he isn't better than players rated 1st at other positions. For example, this year I am pretty sure that 3 or 4 CBs 2-3 safeties, 2-3 WRs will be drafted before the top rated OG, C, OT,DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Not if Davis is there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I will be pretty disappointed if we draft a CB. This has nothing to do with whether or not it is a current need. Here's how I look at it... We've created a need at CB by our own poor roster management dating back to the early 2000's. Similar to how we've misunderstood the value of the RB position, the Bills have created and filled their own holes in the secondary... In 1999 we drafted Winfield in the first round to fill the hole at DB. In 2001 we drafted Clements in the first round and had a 1-2 tandem in Winfield/Clements. In 2003 we let Winfield go In 2006 we let Clements go ... We use UFA Jabari Greer and 4th RD McGee to plug in these holes eventually, but lose Greer to FA, draft Whitner and begin a new cycle at the position... ... In 2008 we draft McKelvin in the first. In 2012 we draft Gilmore in the first. In 2015 we draft Darby with our first pick (2nd round). In 2016 we get rid of Mckelvin In 2017 we get rid of Gilmore As much as this is a condemnation of the free agent era, it's a frustrating look at how many times we have created and filled holes due to poor roster management. If the argument is that GIlmore is too expensive, well then it's a terrible investment of a first round pick. All the CBs (Winfield, Clements, Gilmore, Whitner and even McKelvin to an extent) were let go to the market because they were too expensive. We continually fall for this trick, and then panic when it's time to pony up. Winfield was probably the only player worth the big contract, and when you look back, the only recurring trend in this ineptitude is that we've missed the playoffs. Yes, other teams have let a lot of quality starters walk because they were too expensive. The Patriots are pretty famous for drafting a player and not resigning him, but I'll argue that for us, these are mostly top 10 picks we're talking about here, not last in the first round. These are positions of value in the draft board that are sure-thing starters...and yet we seem to cyclically release and draft DB's anyways. I've brought this up over the years and I'm often looked at as not understanding how the team is being built. Well, at the 17 year mark all I can do is throw my hands in the air and wonder how wrong have I been? If you're going to let Gilmore go, fine. I don't have a problem with it, really, but you need to STOP the cycle there. You need to use the back half of the draft and bring on depth players to compete for the position. You cannot afford to simply replace with another first round pick because in 4-5 years (less if you count Darby) it will just happen again. To me, it's simple...if you're going to keep getting these high draft picks you NEED to gamble on the game changer, the QB. If you try and fill a position of need, you're going to soon release that player and be right back in the same spot in a few years. If you hit on a QB, the decision is easy. You keep him, you pay him, etc. Every year we go down this same road, every year we scratch our heads at how all these other teams are always in it while we're out. You can't solve ANY problem until you solve the QB problem. TLDR: Don't draft a CB. It's a waste and we'll just let him go in 4-5 years like we've done several times during the drought. Draft a QB. Even if it's a swing and a miss it's a better value. Great post. The common denominator is rarely do the Bills have a player on the roster to fill in when they let a guy go via UFA. They're not prepared given the terrible drafting (particularly after round 2) for someone to step in who's semi-proven when a UFA leaves. The other interesting thing is how every new HC in their first draft has used the top pick on the side of the ball they originate from: 1998 - Wade - Winfield 2001 - Greggo - Clements 2004 - Mularkey - Evans / Losman 2006 - Jauron - Whitner / McCargo 2010 - Gailey - Spiller 2013 - Marrone - Manuel 2015 - Ryan - Darby (2nd) I doubt this team goes offense in round 1. McDermott knows the defense was their weak point last year and even though the offense is on the downslide, their secondary is extremely weak. More using the draft to backfill for departed UFA's and/or guys the new HC didn't prefer. And, if anything is clear now, Whaley defers to HC's because he's a weak leader and gives in to show he's a "team player." McDermott wants to win now and isn't about to address the side of the ball that on paper is stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Didn't know Ragland was down that much weight, where have you read that? Valid argument about Howard plus there was that article that buffalo coveted him (smoke screen or not). Problem I have with Howard is when I watch him I see that TE that Detroit drafted in Rd one a few years back. Can't remember his name. He turned out good but not worth a first Eric Ebron ... He has been pretty much a bust because he has hands of stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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