The Trump Economy

[Tiberius]

42 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Demise of globalization? That won't happen. That's silly. I know, I know, wait...

[TPS]

Never waste a good crisis...

 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

On 3/21/2020 at 7:56 AM, B-Man said:

 

 

U.S. Orders Up To A Yearlong Break On Mortgage Payments

National Public Radio, by Chris Arnold

 

Original Article

 

Homeowners who have lost income or their jobs because of the coronavirus outbreak are getting some relief. Depending on their situation, they should be eligible to have their mortgage payments reduced or suspended for up to 12 months. Federal regulators, through the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are ordering lenders to offer homeowners flexibility. 

 

 

 

.

What about renters?  I guess we already have protections in place? 

[/dev/null]

On 3/21/2020 at 10:56 AM, B-Man said:

 

 

U.S. Orders Up To A Yearlong Break On Mortgage Payments

 

 

32 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

What about renters?  I guess we already have protections in place? 

 

Or what about people that have already paid off their mortgage?

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

 

 

Or what about people that have already paid off their mortgage?

 

Or those that bought our house with cash?  

[Foxx]

7 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

 

 

Or what about people that have already paid off their mortgage?

 

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Or those that bought our house with cash?  

those mortgage payments will still be due, they will just be put on the backend. not sure how the interest is going to work though.

[Numark3]

It is shocking how many individuals can not withstand a brief financial emergency.  Finances need to be taught in high school.  
 

bills, debt (not all debt), and the creation of an emergency fund NEED to be where the vast amount of your money goes before anything else.  Saving, investments, vacations, etc.  

[Foxx]

Trump is scheduled to speak at 5pm EDT. i wonder if this is strategized to preempt the futures opening at 6pm EDT. if he shuts America down, he better shut the markets too.

[Tiberius]

59 minutes ago, TPS said:

Never waste a good crisis...

 

 

 

Ya, Democrats can't agree to that. A Non Disclosure Agree might work with Stormy Daniels but not this. Dems are right to fight to get this right 

4 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

It is shocking how many individuals can not withstand a brief financial emergency.  Finances need to be taught in high school.  
 

bills, debt (not all debt), and the creation of an emergency fund NEED to be where the vast amount of your money goes before anything else.  Saving, investments, vacations, etc.  

Been my experience that you can't teach anyone to manage their money well, some do well, some go gambling, some just spend it as soon as they get it. Thomas Jefferson was terrible with money, for instance, brilliant guy, just not good with money 

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

It is shocking how many individuals can not withstand a brief financial emergency.  Finances need to be taught in high school.  
 

bills, debt (not all debt), and the creation of an emergency fund NEED to be where the vast amount of your money goes before anything else.  Saving, investments, vacations, etc.  

  A lot of people are hand to mouth through no fault of their own.  People have health problems or somebody in their family does.  Some have disabilities.  Some are going to work a low wage job because that is all the skills that they have.  Not everybody has the potential intellectually for an advanced degree.  

[Foxx]

Just now, Crayola64 said:

It is shocking how many individuals can not withstand a brief financial emergency.  Finances need to be taught in high school.  
 

bills, debt (not all debt), and the creation of an emergency fund NEED to be where the vast amount of your money goes before anything else.  Saving, investments, vacations, etc.  

to be fair, society does not foster that mindset. it is always... buy now, pay later. every aspect of commercialism prompts you not to worry about tomorrow. as a result of this, living beyond ones means is how it is done today by a good segment of the population. 

[Numark3]

8 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  A lot of people are hand to mouth through no fault of their own.  People have health problems or somebody in their family does.  Some have disabilities.  Some are going to work a low wage job because that is all the skills that they have.  Not everybody has the potential intellectually for an advanced degree.  

 

Sure, but that's the exception.  40% of americans don't have an emergency fund of at least 400 dollars.  That is awful

 

7 minutes ago, Foxx said:

to be fair, society does not foster that mindset. it is always... buy now, pay later. every aspect of commercialism prompts you not to worry about tomorrow. as a result of this, living beyond ones means is how it is done today by a good segment of the population. 

 

Yup, that's why i said it needs to be taught

[Foxx]

14 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

Sure, but that's the exception.  40% of americans don't have an emergency fund of at least 400 dollars.  That is awful

 

 

Yup, that's why i said it needs to be taught

but... but... (and i'm being serious) isn't that a Conservative principal? the schools would have to rewrite their entire Liberal curriculum. not sure that is in the budget. 

[Numark3]

Just now, Foxx said:

but... but... (and i'm being serious) isn't that a Conservative principal? the schools would have to rewrite their entire Liberal curriculum. not sure that is in the budget. 

 

I am not sure where it falls on republican vs democrat spectrum, I don't think like that (you can twist it either way tbh).  It is something that needs to be taught though

[RochesterRob]

12 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

Sure, but that's the exception.  40% of americans don't have an emergency fund of at least 400 dollars.  That is awful

 

 

Yup, that's why i said it needs to be taught

  I would suggest if it were possible to go out into the communities of WNY and survey people.  Many have not had a pay raise in over 20-25 years.  They watched their 10-12 dollars per hour that they were getting back in 1995 turn into minimum wage.  I could go into Wegman's back in 1995, spend 40-45 dollars and live like a king for a week.  40-45 dollars to spend having to purchase juice, vegetables, etc. does not leave a lot for the meat dept these days.  Gas was 1.39-1.49 per gallon in 1995.  With crude oil "down" gas is 2.25-2.45 per gallon.  A Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD extended cab was around 18-22K in the mid-1990's.  Starting price today for a similar vehicle is close to 40,000 dollars.  A Toyota Corolla back in the mid-1990's was around 10,000 dollars.  Today that same car is 20,000 dollars or more.

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

I am not sure where it falls on republican vs democrat spectrum, I don't think like that (you can twist it either way tbh).  It is something that needs to be taught though

i never said it was a repub/dem issue. i said it was a conservative ideal (saving for a rainy day) and a liberal ideal (school curriculum). these are generally accepted, aren't they? that they are associated with those particular political mindsets is besides the point. saving for a rainy day is a very much conservative ideal, that can not be disputed with any sense of a logical argument that would withstand scrutiny.

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

I am not sure where it falls on republican vs democrat spectrum, I don't think like that (you can twist it either way tbh).  It is something that needs to be taught though

 

Here's the challenge.  Teaching it in high school is a complete waste of time. By the time a 17 or 18 year old is working and making any kind of money that can be put aside they will have long forgotten anything they learned an many as 10 years previously.  It needs to be taught in the home by mom and dad and reinforced throughout the kids early adult years.  The problem here is mom and dad typically don't know what the ***** they're doing.  Unless they're working with me of course.  ?

[Numark3]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 

Here's the challenge.  Teaching it in high school is a complete waste of time. By the time a 17 or 18 year old is working and making any kind of money that can be put aside they will have long forgotten anything they learned an many as 10 years previously.  It needs to be taught in the home by mom and dad and reinforced throughout the kids early adult years.  The problem here is mom and dad typically don't know what the ***** they're doing.  Unless they're working with me of course.  ?

 

Parents in this country are in no way qualified to teach this.  And I really disagree, an 18 year old is very close to making money, and they have money at that point.  And teaching kids how to make a lot more money through financial principles could be appealing.  

 

But I don't know if teaching will fix the issue (just my best idea), but it is such an issue

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  I would suggest if it were possible to go out into the communities of WNY and survey people.  Many have not had a pay raise in over 20-25 years.  They watched their 10-12 dollars per hour that they were getting back in 1995 turn into minimum wage.  I could go into Wegman's back in 1995, spend 40-45 dollars and live like a king for a week.  40-45 dollars to spend having to purchase juice, vegetables, etc. does not leave a lot for the meat dept these days.  Gas was 1.39-1.49 per gallon in 1995.  With crude oil "down" gas is 2.25-2.45 per gallon.  A Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD extended cab was around 18-22K in the mid-1990's.  Starting price today for a similar vehicle is close to 40,000 dollars.  A Toyota Corolla back in the mid-1990's was around 10,000 dollars.  Today that same car is 20,000 dollars or more.

not to worry, we are about to see a bifurcation of goods. hyperinflation for essentials and deflation for luxury items.

[Numark3]

5 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i never said it was a repub/dem issue. i said it was a conservative ideal (saving for a rainy day) and a liberal ideal (school curriculum). these are generally accepted, aren't they? that they are associated with those particular political mindsets is besides the point. saving for a rainy day is a very much conservative ideal, that can not be disputed with any sense of a logical argument that would withstand scrutiny.

 

okay, I am just not interested in politicizing that issue, maybe others are

Edited March 22, 2020 by Crayola64

[Buffalo_Gal]

2 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i never said it was a repub/dem issue. i said it was a conservative ideal (saving for a rainy day) and a liberal ideal (school curriculum). these are generally accepted, aren't they? that they are associated with those particular political mindsets is besides the point. saving for a rainy day is a very much conservative ideal, that can not be disputed with any sense of a logical argument that would withstand scrutiny.

My father was a math teacher. He used to teach the kids how to write a check, balance a budget, etc. In algebra class! He simply wanted to make certain they had those life skills.  He did this as long as he was teaching (he started in 1964).  I cannot imagine what it is like these days if he felt it was necessary way back then.

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

My father was a math teacher. He used to teach the kids how to write a check, balance a budget, etc. In algebra class! He simply wanted to make certain they had those life skills.  He did this as long as he was teaching (he started in 1964).  I cannot imagine what it is like these days if he felt it was necessary way back then.

i have said for many years now and i firmly believe it to this day.

 

calculators in the classroom is the cause of the downfall of society.

[Chef Jim]

14 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

Parents in this country are in no way qualified to teach this.  And I really disagree, an 18 year old is very close to making money, and they have money at that point.  And teaching kids how to make a lot more money through financial principles could be appealing.  

 

But I don't know if teaching will fix the issue (just my best idea), but it is such an issue

 

Seriously?  How many 18 year olds are working in this country let alone saving?  And my point was if mom and dad are working with a competent advisor he should be insisting the  parents bring the kids along to their reviews.  

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

My father was a math teacher. He used to teach the kids how to write a check, balance a budget, etc. In algebra class! He simply wanted to make certain they had those life skills.  He did this as long as he was teaching (he started in 1964).  I cannot imagine what it is like these days if he felt it was necessary way back then.

 

I took an "Economics" course in HS and had no idea how to balance a checkbook until I got married at 22.  

Edited March 22, 2020 by Chef Jim

[Foxx]

11 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

okay, I am just not interested in politicizing that issue, maybe others are

is there such a thing as long held conservative beliefs?

[RochesterRob]

26 minutes ago, Foxx said:

not to worry, we are about to see a bifurcation of goods. hyperinflation for essentials and deflation for luxury items.

  People will have to reprioritize on expenditures.  There will be fewer people buying a full size pickup truck just to be seen in it versus having a productive use for it.  

[Foxx]

10 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  People will have to reprioritize on expenditures.  There will be fewer people buying a full size pickup truck just to be seen in it versus having a productive use for it.  

lol. i saw a commercial last night, a couple actually for different car makers. they are offering deferred payment for either 90 or 120 days if you purchase a new truck. not to mention the 0% financing that can now be had, yes, can now be had for a mere 84 months.

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Foxx

[jrober38]

The economy is going to be destroyed by the end of April. 

 

If this lasts more than a few months, which seems likely give the curve the US is tracking along, the economy will crash. 

 

First the hotel, airline and restaurant industries will fail. Then autos will begin to fail as no one will be buying cars anymore. Same for real estate construction.

 

This is going to be a colossal disaster. No other way to put it. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

The economy is going to be destroyed by the end of April. 

 

If this lasts more than a few months, which seems likely give the curve the US is tracking along, the economy will crash. 

 

First the hotel, airline and restaurant industries will fail. Then autos will begin to fail as no one will be buying cars anymore. Same for real estate construction.

 

This is going to be a colossal disaster. No other way to put it. 

Agreed! This was fun for a week or two but it’s time for everyone to go back to work and practice good hygiene and social distancing. Stay home if you’re sick! Easy access to tests will certainly help. Pence reported that 90% of those asking for tests, don’t have the virus. That’s good for many reasons.

[RochesterRob]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

The economy is going to be destroyed by the end of April. 

 

If this lasts more than a few months, which seems likely give the curve the US is tracking along, the economy will crash. 

 

First the hotel, airline and restaurant industries will fail. Then autos will begin to fail as no one will be buying cars anymore. Same for real estate construction.

 

This is going to be a colossal disaster. No other way to put it. 

  So, what are you going to do when the looters show up at your door?

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Agreed! This was fun for a week or two but it’s time for everyone to go back to work and practice good hygiene and social distancing. Stay home if you’re sick! Easy access to tests will certainly help. Pence reported that 90% of those asking for tests, don’t have the virus. That’s good for many reasons.

  What is transpiring in California in terms of isolation and shutdowns?

[jrober38]

10 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  So, what are you going to do when the looters show up at your door?

 

Seems unlikely. 

[RochesterRob]

17 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Seems unlikely. 

  Because....................?

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Because....................?

 

Were people looting homes in Europe during the financial crisis when places like Spain, Italy and Greece had near 20% unemployment? 

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Were people looting homes in Europe during the financial crisis when places like Spain, Italy and Greece had near 20% unemployment? 

  North America is not Europe and if the predictions come true the US has not had this kind of financial stress in quite some time.  I believe that we have far less connection to society than in the 1930's so it would be far easier to do anti-social things such as looting.  "The economy is going to be destroyed by the end of April."  Your words, not mine.  What do you think is going to happen when the economy is destroyed in approximate 40 days?  Block parties?  Also, if the economy is going to be destroyed by the end of April then how is it only going to be only crashed a couple of months after that?  OK, again I would ask how you would deal with looters at your door.  I assume that you do not live in a dumpster so even if it is just a laptop and a dorm refrigerator you have things of value.  You don't seem like the kind of person to have a gun and if it is as chaotic as you suggest it is unlikely the cops will get there before the looters leave.

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  North America is not Europe and if the predictions come true the US has not had this kind of financial stress in quite some time.  I believe that we have far less connection to society than in the 1930's so it would be far easier to do anti-social things such as looting.  "The economy is going to be destroyed by the end of April."  Your words, not mine.  What do you think is going to happen when the economy is destroyed in approximate 40 days?  Block parties?  Also, if the economy is going to be destroyed by the end of April then how is it only going to be only crashed a couple of months after that?  OK, again I would ask how you would deal with looters at your door.  I assume that you do not live in a dumpster so even if it is just a laptop and a dorm refrigerator you have things of value.  You don't seem like the kind of person to have a gun and if it is as chaotic as you suggest it is unlikely the cops will get there before the looters leave.

 

The government is going to have to start shipping people money every month. 

 

That is going to be the only option with unemployment upwards of 15%. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by jrober38

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The government is going to have to start shipping people money every month. 

 

That is going to be the only option with unemployment upwards of 15%. 

  The risk in shipping people large sums of money is that you get the Weimar Republic and hyperinflation.  You were talking 20 percent unemployment and now you say 15 percent?

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  The risk in shipping people large sums of money is that you get the Weimar Republic and hyperinflation.  You were talking 20 percent unemployment and now you say 15 percent?

 

I don't think borrowing money to pay people a monthly amount will lead to hyper inflation.

 

The US economy 30 days ago was buzzing. In your example Germany had just lost a war and had to pay massive reparation payments that crashed their economy.

 

When people can't pay rent, can't pay for food, can't pay for anything, the government is going to have no choice but to start shipping people money to survive. 

[RochesterRob]

14 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't think borrowing money to pay people a monthly amount will lead to hyper inflation.

 

The US economy 30 days ago was buzzing. In your example Germany had just lost a war and had to pay massive reparation payments that crashed their economy.

 

When people can't pay rent, can't pay for food, can't pay for anything, the government is going to have no choice but to start shipping people money to survive. 

  I did not say that the causes would be the same but I wanted to cite an example of hyperinflation and its effect on the economy.  Pretty sure before your edit that you said large sums of money implying more than what is needed based on need.  Again, what will you do to protect yourself if your neighborhood descends into chaos?

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  I did not say that the causes would be the same but I wanted to cite an example of hyperinflation and its effect on the economy.  Pretty sure before your edit that you said large sums of money implying more than what is needed based on need.  Again, what will you do to protect yourself if your neighborhood descends into chaos?

 

I own multiple firearms. I have no belief that I'll have to use them.

 

I didn't edit anything. 

[CoudyBills]

4 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Here's the challenge.  Teaching it in high school is a complete waste of time. By the time a 17 or 18 year old is working and making any kind of money that can be put aside they will have long forgotten anything they learned an many as 10 years previously.  It needs to be taught in the home by mom and dad and reinforced throughout the kids early adult years.  The problem here is mom and dad typically don't know what the ***** they're doing.  Unless they're working with me of course.  ?

We train our kids like that.  They have jobs within the home, get paid, save, spend, give.  Been doing it for years.  

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  So, what are you going to do when the looters show up at your door?

Um, shoot them?  In the face, that way they know you are serious?

[CoudyBills]

5 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  A lot of people are hand to mouth through no fault of their own.  People have health problems or somebody in their family does.  Some have disabilities.  Some are going to work a low wage job because that is all the skills that they have.  Not everybody has the potential intellectually for an advanced degree.  

You don't need an advanced degree.  I have a buddy who makes 33k a year.  He has a wife who doesn't work, a kid, a house (mortgage), a fully funded emergency fund, and he is self funding a master's degree.  While it is different for people who are on a fixed government income, I put very little stock in the little guy can't get ahead argument.  People don't have to make a killing to have an emergency fund.  There are options.