GG Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 Just now, transplantbillsfan said: Wow. Well that's a stupid analogy. I get that you're just trolling, which is fine and fun for you, I'm sure, but clearly you're incredibly focused on calling out what you perceive to be racism in others... so much so that you are lost in this phrase. Read through all those damn articles you cite yourself. The words "well-spoken" and "articulate" are not themselves racist unless you exclusively use them with African Americans with feelings of amazement and bewilderment. I use those words all the time. The fact that you saw that word and it jumped out at you tells me there must be some amazement and bewilderment over a Black person being "articulate" and "well spoken" on your part. Actually no. Using those terms in a complimentary manner is racist. You don’t need to point out that an Ivy League graduate is articulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: you haven't been for a couple years now, which is disappointing. i articulate just fine. you're just upset because i don't trust any opinion you have on any/all quarterbacks anymore. Edited March 1, 2019 by Foxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said: How is it possible that you’re this thick? All the pieces that have been linked to you, several scholarly, and at least one a first hand accounting given by a black woman about what It means to call a black person “well spoken” go on to say that “well spoken” when said in that context implies that the black person speaking possesses a cultural whiteness (which encompasses proper diction and a strong volcabulary) which is preferable to a cultural blackness which does not, which shows inherent racial bias (IE racism). There is no wiggle room here. 26 minutes ago, GG said: Actually no. Using those terms in a complimentary manner is racist. You don’t need to point out that an Ivy League graduate is articulate. Except that even these articles themselves don't make these words concretely and universally racist and they're being cited as though they universally and completely categorize those as racist words. https://ideas.ted.com/why-we-need-to-call-out-casual-racism/ Microaggressions and instances of casual racism like this pepper our daily lives, leaving a terrible taste in our collective mouths. If you want to correct their “articulate” comments, you will often be met with, “Oh, I didn’t mean it like that!” Ma’am. Sir. How did you mean it? Have you ever given a white colleague a pat on the back for knowing how to speak in complete sentences? No? Okay. A literal pat on the back? Not necessarily. But I say/write it in evaluative forms to students and colleagues alike frequently. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html What faint praise, indeed. Being articulate must surely be a baseline requirement for a former president of The Harvard Law Review. After all, Webster’s definitions of the word include “able to speak” and “expressing oneself easily and clearly.” It would be more incredible, more of a phenomenon, to borrow two more of the senator’s puzzling words, if Mr. Obama were inarticulate. That is the core of the issue. When whites use the word in reference to blacks, it often carries a subtext of amazement, even bewilderment. So, in reverse order, the core issue is that when whites use the word, it OFTEN carries a subtext of amazement and/or bewilderment. So, the word is OFTEN racist. Again, I use those words all the time for all my students and colleagues. Plus, considering this article was written 12 years ago and we currently have an inarticulate dumbass in office, I think talking about Presidential candidates as needing to be "articulate" or "well-spoken" is just fine considering that bar has been massively lowered in the last couple years. 26 minutes ago, GG said: Actually no. Using those terms in a complimentary manner is racist. You don’t need to point out that an Ivy League graduate is articulate. Considering Donald Trump and George W Bush went to Ivy League schools, I strongly disagree. Edited March 1, 2019 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Except that even these articles themselves don't make these words concretely and universally racist and they're being cited as though they universally and completely categorize those as racist words. https://ideas.ted.com/why-we-need-to-call-out-casual-racism/ Microaggressions and instances of casual racism like this pepper our daily lives, leaving a terrible taste in our collective mouths. If you want to correct their “articulate” comments, you will often be met with, “Oh, I didn’t mean it like that!” Ma’am. Sir. How did you mean it? Have you ever given a white colleague a pat on the back for knowing how to speak in complete sentences? No? Okay. A literal pat on the back? Not necessarily. But I say/write it in evaluative forms to students and colleagues alike frequently. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html What faint praise, indeed. Being articulate must surely be a baseline requirement for a former president of The Harvard Law Review. After all, Webster’s definitions of the word include “able to speak” and “expressing oneself easily and clearly.” It would be more incredible, more of a phenomenon, to borrow two more of the senator’s puzzling words, if Mr. Obama were inarticulate. That is the core of the issue. When whites use the word in reference to blacks, it often carries a subtext of amazement, even bewilderment. So, in reverse order, the core issue is that when whites use the word, it OFTEN carries a subtext of amazement and/or bewilderment. So, the word is OFTEN racist. Again, I use those words all the time for all my students and colleagues. Plus, considering this article was written 12 years ago and we currently have an inarticulate dumbass in office, I think talking about Presidential candidates as needing to be "articulate" or "well-spoken" is just fine considering that bar has been massively lowered in the last couple years. Considering Donald Trump and George W Bush went to Ivy League schools, I strongly disagree. Yeah those Ivy League degrees are basically the same as an ECC degree because Bush went to one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: I don't like Elizabeth Warren, in part, because I don't think she's very well-spoken or articulate. I'm sorry, am I being racist when I use those words in speaking about them? Only 1/1024th racist, according to the data. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Only 1/1024th racist, according to the data. This one's pretty funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 29 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Except that even these articles themselves don't make these words concretely and universally racist and they're being cited as though they universally and completely categorize those as racist words. https://ideas.ted.com/why-we-need-to-call-out-casual-racism/ Microaggressions and instances of casual racism like this pepper our daily lives, leaving a terrible taste in our collective mouths. If you want to correct their “articulate” comments, you will often be met with, “Oh, I didn’t mean it like that!” Ma’am. Sir. How did you mean it? Have you ever given a white colleague a pat on the back for knowing how to speak in complete sentences? No? Okay. A literal pat on the back? Not necessarily. But I say/write it in evaluative forms to students and colleagues alike frequently. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html What faint praise, indeed. Being articulate must surely be a baseline requirement for a former president of The Harvard Law Review. After all, Webster’s definitions of the word include “able to speak” and “expressing oneself easily and clearly.” It would be more incredible, more of a phenomenon, to borrow two more of the senator’s puzzling words, if Mr. Obama were inarticulate. That is the core of the issue. When whites use the word in reference to blacks, it often carries a subtext of amazement, even bewilderment. So, in reverse order, the core issue is that when whites use the word, it OFTEN carries a subtext of amazement and/or bewilderment. So, the word is OFTEN racist. Again, I use those words all the time for all my students and colleagues. Plus, considering this article was written 12 years ago and we currently have an inarticulate dumbass in office, I think talking about Presidential candidates as needing to be "articulate" or "well-spoken" is just fine considering that bar has been massively lowered in the last couple years. Considering Donald Trump and George W Bush went to Ivy League schools, I strongly disagree. No true Scotsman fallacy. You don’t get to toss that out and exempt yourself from the connotations assigned to the phrasing because of your own experience. In fact, your experience in and of itself in this regard is racist. The only way for you not to be racist is to beg mea culpa for your inherent racist, and deny that your experience matters even a little bit. You have no standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Yeah those Ivy League degrees are basically the same as an ECC degree because Bush went to one. Bush graduated Yale and Harvard. Trump never did attend an Ivy League school, but now that he's President, using "well-spoken" and "articulate" as a standard in the conversation for the Presidency is logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 31 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Except that even these articles themselves don't make these words concretely and universally racist and they're being cited as though they universally and completely categorize those as racist words. https://ideas.ted.com/why-we-need-to-call-out-casual-racism/ Microaggressions and instances of casual racism like this pepper our daily lives, leaving a terrible taste in our collective mouths. If you want to correct their “articulate” comments, you will often be met with, “Oh, I didn’t mean it like that!” Ma’am. Sir. How did you mean it? Have you ever given a white colleague a pat on the back for knowing how to speak in complete sentences? No? Okay. A literal pat on the back? Not necessarily. But I say/write it in evaluative forms to students and colleagues alike frequently. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html What faint praise, indeed. Being articulate must surely be a baseline requirement for a former president of The Harvard Law Review. After all, Webster’s definitions of the word include “able to speak” and “expressing oneself easily and clearly.” It would be more incredible, more of a phenomenon, to borrow two more of the senator’s puzzling words, if Mr. Obama were inarticulate. That is the core of the issue. When whites use the word in reference to blacks, it often carries a subtext of amazement, even bewilderment. So, in reverse order, the core issue is that when whites use the word, it OFTEN carries a subtext of amazement and/or bewilderment. So, the word is OFTEN racist. Again, I use those words all the time for all my students and colleagues. Plus, considering this article was written 12 years ago and we currently have an inarticulate dumbass in office, I think talking about Presidential candidates as needing to be "articulate" or "well-spoken" is just fine considering that bar has been massively lowered in the last couple years. Considering Donald Trump and George W Bush went to Ivy League schools, I strongly disagree. You know what's funny? Quote If you want to correct their “articulate” comments, you will often be met with, “Oh, I didn’t mean it like that!” Is exactly what you're doing. Yeah, all those articles are completely inapplicable to your racist ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: No true Scotsman fallacy. You don’t get to toss that out and exempt yourself from the connotations assigned to the phrasing because of your own experience. In fact, your experience in and of itself in this regard is racist. The only way for you not to be racist is to beg mea culpa for your inherent racist, and deny that your experience matters even a little bit. You have no standing. There were no connotations to the phrasing until DC Tom ascribed them to skin color. I stand tall and sturdy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: There were no connotations to the phrasing until DC Tom ascribed them to skin color. I stand tall and sturdy. Yes, I invented articles and papers twelve years ago showing you're a racist. Standing as tall and sturdy as Ralph Northam in blackface... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: You know what's funny? Is exactly what you're doing. Yeah, all those articles are completely inapplicable to your racist ass. Man... you're predictable. This place isn't a place for genuine discussion. It's mental *****. Talk about being disingenuous. Just now, DC Tom said: Yes, I invented articles and papers twelve years ago showing you're a racist. Standing as tall and sturdy as Ralph Northam in blackface... Except that's not what they show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: There were no connotations to the phrasing until DC Tom ascribed them to skin color. I stand tall and sturdy. They are naturally assigned skin color through their utterance, given the target of your descriptor. You engaged in racism. Full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Just now, TakeYouToTasker said: They are naturally assigned skin color through their utterance, given the target of your descriptor. You engaged in racism. Full stop. Sooooo.... Amy Klobuchar and Mitt Romney are black because I called them well-spoken and articulate, too? All of my students and colleagues that are white, Asian, Pacific Islander, etc. that I label as well-spoken and articulate should identify themselves as Black instead because I used those words for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Just now, transplantbillsfan said: Sooooo.... Amy Klobuchar and Mitt Romney are black because I called them well-spoken and articulate, too? All of my students and colleagues that are white, Asian, Pacific Islander, etc. that I label as well-spoken and articulate should identify themselves as Black instead because I used those words for them? /facepalm Stop being so thick. You claim to be an English teacher, so read. The utterance of the phrase “well spoken” when made to, or about, a black person in America is derogatory and racist, because it implies a superiority of cultural whiteness, and applauds the black individuals acceptance of its superiority, and following assimilation. What you said is racist. Full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Sooooo.... Amy Klobuchar and Mitt Romney are black because I called them well-spoken and articulate, too? All of my students and colleagues that are white, Asian, Pacific Islander, etc. that I label as well-spoken and articulate should identify themselves as Black instead because I used those words for them? You know, it just occurred to me...if you're going to call your students "articulate" and "well-spoken," you should probably check your school's guidance on that, since it is considered a microaggression that creates a hostile environment of hate speech by many schools. Of course, you think I'm trolling you...but it's genuinely surprising you haven't been fired for racism yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Trump never did attend an Ivy League school, but now that he's President, using "well-spoken" and "articulate" as a standard in the conversation for the Presidency is logical. U Penn begs to differ. Please stop already, when do you recognize that you’re ***** ting your pants? Edited March 2, 2019 by GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Listen, if we can end this “racist” nonsense that’d be great. If need be I’ll identify as a racist, everybody yell at me once, then let’s move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 22 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Bush graduated Yale and Harvard. Trump never did attend an Ivy League school, but now that he's President, using "well-spoken" and "articulate" as a standard in the conversation for the Presidency is logical. In case no one corrected you, Wharton is Ivy League (part of the Univeristy of Pennsylvania). President Trump has an economics degree from Wharton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: /facepalm Stop being so thick. You claim to be an English teacher, so read. The utterance of the phrase “well spoken” when made to, or about, a black person in America is derogatory and racist, because it implies a superiority of cultural whiteness, and applauds the black individuals acceptance of its superiority, and following assimilation. What you said is racist. Full stop. No. Ya know, I really do think 16 minutes ago, DC Tom said: You know, it just occurred to me...if you're going to call your students "articulate" and "well-spoken," you should probably check your school's guidance on that, since it is considered a microaggression that creates a hostile environment of hate speech by many schools. Of course, you think I'm trolling you...but it's genuinely surprising you haven't been fired for racism yet. Yeah, because according to you a teacher should be fired for saying "calm down" to a kid in class who's acting up iif he's black, but it's fine to say it if he's not. Because, according to you, a teacher should be fired for asking a black student "where are you from?" if you get a brand new student in class in the middle of the year (which I often do because there's a large military population that comes and goes), but it's fine asking that question if he/she's not black. Because, according to you, when students are delivering their formal oral presentations at the end of each semester and we are evaluating the student, if it's a black student I should not say "you articulated well," but I can say that to students if they aren't black. ... but then... holding those terms back from Black students while saying them to all other students would itself be racist, wouldn't it? I bet you have very little face to face interaction with actual people... you just live in a bubble hammering away on the Internet. 12 minutes ago, GG said: U Penn begs to differ. Please stop already, when do you recognize that you’re ***** ting your pants? 10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: In case no one corrected you, Wharton is Ivy League (part of the Univeristy of Pennsylvania). President Trump has an economics degree from Wharton. Well thank you. So I guess we can't assume an Ivy League Graduate is articulate, at all. Edited March 2, 2019 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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