BADOLBILZ Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Well at least there are some names. I just don't see Cutler and Foles bringing more than 26 PPG. Maybe they will but I think that Tyrod is WAY better than those guys. Romo is a total wild card. I've always been a fan. He could come in for 2 years max (if healthy) and be a good bridge. If he thinks that the Bills are his best option to win. I'm not sure he would pick them over Denver or Houston though. In terms of the draft 2018, on paper, looks like a decent QB draft. Watson is the only guy that interests me at all in 2017. The grass isn't always greener... I honestly do not think some fans understand how poor of a pass blocking OL this is. Glenn is good and Kujo might be able to bookend ok with him............ but in a league now stocked with tremendous interior DL the Bills are physically outmatched man to man inside. There is a difference between giving up 45 sacks when 10-15 of them are your QB running out of bounds 2 yards behind the LOS and giving up 45 legit, frame shaking sacks. Sans Tyrod if I am a DC I do just what Pittsburgh did.......all out upfield attack.......short circuit the running game on the way to the QB. So yeah.......if you have one of those 2.5 second release franchise-type QB's it's not a problem.........otherwise........it's a big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I don't like Tyrod... but I'm not sure what choice we have. Unless they find a QB in the middle part of the draft like Dak Prescott that unexpectedly starts out of the middle of nowhere, they're essentially stuck with him. I don't like Cutler. Rivers and Romo will command more money than TT and I'm not really sure they are more than Bledsoe-type caretarker quarterbacks. EJ will be gone. Hard to gauge Cardale Jones in one quarter of action, but he seemed pretty raw and I wouldn't enter next season with him as the #1 quarterback. They probably pick up a quarterback in the draft, and bring in a journeyman, Kelly Holcomb-esque guy to compete with TT for the starting job. But your whole post is predicated on picking up Tyrod option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 That's bold, and a lot of resources but I could get behind that. I just have no idea how you have the chips t get Romo AND Watson? Well ideally we could hang onto on our 2017 first and hope Watson falls there. Then trade the farm behind that pick for Romo. Maybe like a 2018 first and a 2017 3rd or 2nd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 That's bold, and a lot of resources but I could get behind that. I just have no idea how you have the chips to get Romo AND Watson? I am wondering how we would do both trade for romo and draft that high Does not seem possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I respect your view of TT, but I don't understand it.. You keep saying he is not good enough, but he directed the 7th rated scoring offense though week 16. Isn't scoring points what it's all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I guess the point is, he IS a competent starter. He's far from perfect but you could easily do worse. There is a lot of bad QB play out there (we watched that Jets game). TT isn't great but he's an okay NFL starter. The question that Whaley has to consider is being an okay NFL starter good enough to get his team anywhere meaningful? My position is without any hesitation:"I just don't know??" Is being good enough adequate enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I am wondering how we would do both trade for romo and draft that high Does not seem possible. If Lynn goes to Denver does that move Tyrods trade value up to round 1? Just speculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 The question that Whaley has to consider is being an okay NFL starter good enough to get his team anywhere meaningful? My position is without any hesitation:"I just don't know??" Is being good enough adequate enough? "Good enough " is NOT good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullim4 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 But your whole post is predicated on picking up Tyrod option TT holds the cards at this point. If the Bills decline his option and offer to renegotiate, he walks... there will be a team or two that will make him a starter and pay him. Heck, the Jets could be one of those teams. Cleveland would take him. Maybe a team like San Diego if Rivers is gone? His reaction this week demonstrates he's pissed at the front office for his benching... why go back to that if the team wants to cut your pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I am wondering how we would do both trade for romo and draft that high Does not seem possible. 2018 first and 2017 second would lock up Romo, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 2018 first and 2017 second would lock up Romo, IMO. No thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 No thanks Enjoy 18 years and counting. Whaley will get it right in his next 7 years of employment, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 The question that Whaley has to consider is being an okay NFL starter good enough to get his team anywhere meaningful? My position is without any hesitation:"I just don't know??" Is being good enough adequate enough? Building a super bowl roster is a lot differnet than find the best QB in the league. A qb like tyrod can help you win partly because of the salary cap. No we cannot afford to pay him 30 mil but im sure that can be renegotiated. With an affordable qb you can build the rest of your roster. TT has shown that he can produce points well above the "game manager" label AND commit little to no turn overs. Salaries for the lucks of rodgers etc can really handcuff your team. We will never have that problem with TT. Please please please resign Tyrod Taylor!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Well ideally we could hang onto on our 2017 first and hope Watson falls there. Then trade the farm behind that pick for Romo. Maybe like a 2018 first and a 2017 3rd or 2nd?Okay, that is fair. That is a ton to give up though for what you hope improves on 26 PPG. If our offense was a disaster I'd probably be cool with it. They aren't though. I'd rather have Tyrod and our next 2 firsts and this year's second than Romo & Watson. If this make sense I think that the Bills are better with Tyrod Taylor, Jamal Adams, Roderick Johnson and Minkah Fitzpatrick than Romo and Watson. That's the type of thing that we are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Enjoy 18 years and counting. Whaley will get it right in his next 7 years of employment, maybe. I would totally do except I dont see Romo playing more than a handful of games due to injury. What about a conditional pick if he plays 15/16 games? Id do that. But a 1st and a 2nd for a QB who is one hit away from retirement? Why? Okay, that is fair. That is a ton to give up though for what you hope improves on 26 PPG. If our offense was a disaster I'd probably be cool with it. They aren't though. I'd rather have Tyrod and our next 2 firsts and this year's second than Romo & Watson. If this make sense I think that the Bills are better with Tyrod Taylor, Jamal Adams, Roderick Johnson and Minkah Fitzpatrick than Romo and Watson. That's the type of thing that we are talking about. Yup. 100% agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 The question that Whaley has to consider is being an okay NFL starter good enough to get his team anywhere meaningful? My position is without any hesitation:"I just don't know??" Is being good enough adequate enough? The 7th highest scoring offense is good enough to make noise. The defense obviously needs to improve but 26 PPG is good enough to play meaningful football in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 2018 first and 2017 second would lock up Romo, IMO. OK....so if you give up your 1st then your not taking a QB in this next years draft in the first? Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I respect your view of TT, but I don't understand it.. You keep saying he is not good enough, but he directed the 7th rated scoring offense though week 16. Isn't scoring points what it's all about?He's an inadequate passer who manages to balance out a bit of that with his legs and play-making ability. The problem is that he isn't consistent, and doesn't string together drives often enough. A massive percentage of the Bills scores were on quick strike long plays. Because of that (read short offensive possessions) it leaves the defense out on the field far too long and too often. If Tyrod is a guy who requires strong defensive performances to win consistently, he does a lousy job of setting his defense up for success. Add to that his great difficulty (read: near inability) to lead his team back from behind... Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesyyy Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I don't normally comment on here, I mostly just read what people say! If you cant see how much better QB he is then other QB's you don't watch football. Plus he is night and day between him and the backups! He is limited in what he does by the coaching not his ability! Yes he is not Peyton or Tom B. but he is a franchise QB and would have taken us to the playoffs with a half decent defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rant_and_go Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 A major league team once started a dwarf in the batting lineup. Seeing an NFL QB stand on his tip toes to throw over the middle reminds me of that. TT gets yards because no one can see him run. The dwarf gets on base because he has no strike zone. Cardale actually looked really good. Already he's talking too many hits. Don't go to Lynn. Running the read-option with a QB who's fatter than Sheldon Richardson should tell you a lot.Coughlin, Cardale, McCoy and Watkins will be perfect for each other. Sign Gilmore, draft a MLB. That's the problem with the safeties, the browns can't stop the runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Okay, that is fair. That is a ton to give up though for what you hope improves on 26 PPG. If our offense was a disaster I'd probably be cool with it. They aren't though. I'd rather have Tyrod and our next 2 firsts and this year's second than Romo & Watson. If this make sense I think that the Bills are better with Tyrod Taylor, Jamal Adams, Roderick Johnson and Minkah Fitzpatrick than Romo and Watson. That's the type of thing that we are talking about. Adams, Johnson and Fitzpatrick aren't going to be the difference between a Super Bowl or not. We've had this discussion before Kirby, and I know your goal is not to back into the postseason but to win a championship. And I'm sorry but Romo is the guy who can play at a high level 3-4 games to get us there and win it. Tyrod can play at a high level for maybe 1 of those games and then falls asleep for 3 Q's. It will never happen. He simply has proven he cannot string good games together. With that in mind, he's worth it. I would totally do except I dont see Romo playing more than a handful of games due to injury. What about a conditional pick if he plays 15/16 games? Id do that. But a 1st and a 2nd for a QB who is one hit away from retirement? Why? Yup. 100% agree. You have to take a shot at a franchise QB when it arises. Everyone said Peyton was one hit away from retirement when Denver paid him. OK....so if you give up your 1st then your not taking a QB in this next years draft in the first? Am I missing something? Quite a bit. I said trade the 2018 first. Not 2017. We take Watson this year. Edited January 1, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 A major league team once started a dwarf in the batting lineup. Seeing an NFL QB stand on his tip toes to throw over the middle reminds me of that. TT gets yards because no one can see him run. The dwarf gets on base because he has no strike zone. Cardale actually looked really good. Already he's talking too many hits. Don't go to Lynn. Running the read-option with a QB who's fatter than Sheldon Richardson should tell you a lot. Coughlin, Cardale, McCoy and Watkins will be perfect for each other. Sign Gilmore, draft a MLB. That's the problem with the safeties, the browns can't stop the runs. 1Q and Cardale looked real good???? He was terrible until he hit a wide open receiver (after Revis fell). And really you want a 70 yo coaching who was lousy since his last SB? Please no...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 A major league team once started a dwarf in the batting lineup. Seeing an NFL QB stand on his tip toes to throw over the middle reminds me of that. TT gets yards because no one can see him run. The dwarf gets on base because he has no strike zone. Cardale actually looked really good. Already he's talking too many hits. Don't go to Lynn. Running the read-option with a QB who's fatter than Sheldon Richardson should tell you a lot. Coughlin, Cardale, McCoy and Watkins will be perfect for each other. Sign Gilmore, draft a MLB. That's the problem with the safeties, the browns can't stop the runs. Taylor is taller than Drew Brees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Adams, Johnson and Fitzpatrick aren't going to be the difference between a Super Bowl or not. We've had this discussion before Kirby, and I know your goal is not to back into the postseason but to win a championship. And I'm sorry but Romo is the guy who can play at a high level 3-4 games to get us there and win it. Tyrod can play at a high level for maybe 1 of those games and then falls asleep for 3 Q's. It will never happen. He simply has proven he cannot string good games together. With that in mind, he's worth it.I actually agree that Romo is the best chance at a Super Bowl. He also has a TON of question marks. He much, much, much more likely to never play effectively again as he is to win a Super Bowl. It's basically a Hail Mary. It's so low percentage but possible. I'm not willing to forsake everything for the 2% chance that Romo comes, healthy, plays at an MVP level AND the defense comes back to a top 10 unit. Edited January 1, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Trade for Romo, draft Watson and roll with Cardale. There's no downside. Romo won't make it through the season without a serious upgrade to the o-line. Trading for him will cost draft picks that the Bills need so bad. What are you trading to get up to Watson, because he's likely to go before the Bills pick? Trading up will deplete draft picks that the Bills need so bad. If you go with Watson (because I'm presuming that Romo will get injured early) then why is he a better option thanTyrod? He's basically the same player who has zero NFL experience. Cardale isn't close to being ready, and he won't be close by the end of next season. Your plan is equivalent to blowing up next season. Keeping Taylor and drafting his replacement is a better option for next season. Upgrading the defense and not losing 4 games to the Dolphins and Jets would be a better plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long suffering bills fan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 He's an inadequate passer who manages to balance out a bit of that with his legs and play-making ability. The problem is that he isn't consistent, and doesn't string together drives often enough. A massive percentage of the Bills scores were on quick strike long plays. Because of that (read short offensive possessions) it leaves the defense out on the field far too long and too often. If Tyrod is a guy who requires strong defensive performances to win consistently, he does a lousy job of setting his defense up for success. Add to that his great difficulty (read: near inability) to lead his team back from behind... Time to move on. We will agree to disagree. I do appreciate your passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Ive been tossing around the idea of Romo on the Bills for the reason that he could be a great player/coach mentor to a high quality rookie. His handling of the Prescott situation in Dallas showed nothing but class and leadership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I actually agree that Romo is the best chance at a Super Bowl. He also has a TON of question marks. He much, much, much more likely to never play effectively again as he is to win a Super Bowl. It's basically a Hail Mary. It's so low percentage but possible. I'm not willing to forsake everything for the 2% chance that Romo comes, healthy, plays at an MVP level AND the defense comes back to a top 10 unit. He looked okay today. I'm not saying it's not risky. It is. But God damnit after 17 years, let's take some risks. Let's go for a guy with question marks who we KNOW can play at a high level. None of this 3rd or 4th best QB prospect developmental crap. It's just as low percentage and it's boring. Let's go for it all. The talent on this team isn't gonna get that much better. That and you know lots of defenses look way better playing with a lead. Let's grab the QB who can give us one. This roster, as is in 2016, is 12-4 at worst with a Romo at QB all year. It's a no brainer. Whaley loves risky but high potential moves. Now's not the time to get gun shy. It was the right move for a Denver team with a peaking talent level and it's the right move for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Adams, Johnson and Fitzpatrick aren't going to be the difference between a Super Bowl or not. We've had this discussion before Kirby, and I know your goal is not to back into the postseason but to win a championship. And I'm sorry but Romo is the guy who can play at a high level 3-4 games to get us there and win it. Tyrod can play at a high level for maybe 1 of those games and then falls asleep for 3 Q's. It will never happen. He simply has proven he cannot string good games together. With that in mind, he's worth it. You have to take a shot at a franchise QB when it arises. Everyone said Peyton was one hit away from retirement when Denver paid him. Quite a bit. I said trade the 2018 first. Not 2017. We take Watson this year. If we got Romo i would be excited. But the risk is crazy. Just dont see him starting more than 8-10 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Only sorta relevant, but there was one Whaley/QB-related irony today: whereas Whaley was able to showcase Manuel against one of the very worst teams in the league only to see him completely flop, Matt Cassel led the Titans to victory (with middling-but-not-horrible numbers) versus a good defense (Houston's). Don't get me wrong -- Cassel sucks. Just pointing out the irony. Not a good day for Doug ... Edited January 1, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 So a rookie looked like a rookie and ej played like ej means Taylor is now good ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 We will agree to disagree. I do appreciate your passion.Which is fine. It's not as though either of us has the ability to influence the decision anyway. I would encourage you to look at Taylor's numbers as relates to 3rd down conversions, 3rd down conversions on long situations, 3 and outs, and yards per attempt, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Romo won't make it through the season without a serious upgrade to the o-line. Trading for him will cost draft picks that the Bills need so bad. What are you trading to get up to Watson, because he's likely to go before the Bills pick? Trading up will deplete draft picks that the Bills need so bad. If you go with Watson (because I'm presuming that Romo will get injured early) then why is he a better option thanTyrod? He's basically the same player who has zero NFL experience. Cardale isn't close to being ready, and he won't be close by the end of next season. Your plan is equivalent to blowing up next season. Keeping Taylor and drafting his replacement is a better option for next season. Upgrading the defense and not losing 4 games to the Dolphins and Jets would be a better plan. We don't need draft picks. This team is peaking in talent. We need a QB. Watson doesn't cost nearly as much against the cap. No way we can carry Romo's salary and TT's. But you get Watson, a 1st round talent, waiting in the wing for the future in the next year or 2 if Romo hangs them up that soon. Your plan is to stay the course and hope this team is all-around leagues better around TT next year. It won't be. We're peaking. The time is now. We won't get 21 guys at their positions who could win a SB with TT at the helm. It's a waste of time. Edited January 1, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 If we got Romo i would be excited. But the risk is crazy. Just dont see him starting more than 8-10 games Jerry Jones is not trading one of his favorite players to a place he regards as the equivalent of Siberia. There is a ZERO percent chance Romo is on the Bills next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Adams, Johnson and Fitzpatrick aren't going to be the difference between a Super Bowl or not. We've had this discussion before Kirby, and I know your goal is not to back into the postseason but to win a championship. And I'm sorry but Romo is the guy who can play at a high level 3-4 games to get us there and win it. Tyrod can play at a high level for maybe 1 of those games and then falls asleep for 3 Q's. It will never happen. He simply has proven he cannot string good games together. With that in mind, he's worth it. You have to take a shot at a franchise QB when it arises. Everyone said Peyton was one hit away from retirement when Denver paid him. Quite a bit. I said trade the 2018 first. Not 2017. We take Watson this year. OK....but why would Dallas even do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) We don't need draft picks. This team is peaking in talent. We need a QB. Watson doesn't cost nearly as much against the cap. No way we can carry Romo's salary and TT's. But you get Watson, a 1st round talent, waiting in the wing for the future in the next year or 2 if Romo hangs them up that soon. Your plan is to stay the course and hope this team is all-around leagues better around TT next year. It won't be. We're peaking. The time is now. We won't get 21 guys at their positions who could win a SB with TT at the helm. It's a waste of time. The talent on this team, especially on the defensive side, is wildly overrated by many fans. The Bills' defensive talent falls in the middle of the nfl spectrum at best. Look at, say, Tampa and tell me Buffalo has better talent than them. They don't. Edited January 1, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Only sorta relevant, but there was one Whaley/QB-related irony today: whereas Whaley was able to showcase Manuel against one of the very worst teams in the league only to see him completely flop, Matt Cassel led the Titans to victory (with middling-but-not-horrible numbers) versus a good defense (Houston's). Don't get me wrong -- Cassel sucks. Just pointing out the irony. Not a good day for Doug ... And EJ didn't JUST have a bad day. He had a bad day a week after the offense put up a team record 590 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 No reason the bills cant go 11- 5 next year with tyrod and a realistic defensive improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long suffering bills fan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Which is fine. It's not as though either of us has the ability to influence the decision anyway. I would encourage you to look at Taylor's numbers as relates to 3rd down conversions, 3rd down conversions on long situations, 3 and outs, and yards per attempt, however. Those are things he needs to work on. But without any definitive alternatives right now, I still believe TT is out best option. I do not want to go into next season with a quarterback situation like we had in 2014 the ked us to make Kyle Orton our starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 And EJ didn't JUST have a bad day. He had a bad day a week after the offense put up a team record 590 yards. Against a playoff team too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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