Bill from NYC Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 If our highest paid players will be: TT, MD, SG, then this Bills team is in BIG BIG TROUBLE FOR YEARS TO COME!The above certainly is ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Really Bro. Seriously? Losing him will set us back a game next year? How about the game he lost us yesterday? Would that make it a wash? If he was as great as some purport him to be, this team would be winning lots of games and playoff bound. And when you speak of, "a few years to recover," I do think it begs the question, recover from what? From 17 years of no playoffs? From Gilmore getting burned often? From his lack of effort? Â It can't get much worse imo and if it somehow did, we would draft in the top 5. he isn't he reason we lost yesterday. Yes he missed a tackle. But we missed field goals and had poor play on defense all over. One bad play doesn't wipe out a history of above average play. Further, if one specific player can be so responsible for a schematic failure and a systematic breakdown to lead to failure it is time to look at that scheme and reasses the entire process. Gilmore is not a tackler. He never was. Just like Dareus isn't a cover man. Or Darby a zone CB. I did not watch the game yesterday. I haven't seen his failures of yesterday. But I don't need to in order to know what he can, will, won't and shouldn't do. Gilmore being left to make that tackle ignores, however it was ignores the entire DL and LB doing their job. And the reality is that he needs to protect his investment. This is no different then taking cover in a shootout when you only have a .22 pistol and they have a shotgun. It sucks. But, I'd still retain him. Not because he is great, but because he is very good. Â When he gets to Carolina and closer to home as he wants he will make a difference. Of course, he will give up big plays, too. And just like mckelvin and brooks we will laugh and say how much he sucks. But every cab has this happen. And most all of them avoid contact. Peterson and honeybadger are the epitome of this. Sherman won't make tackles either. Â Gilmore is worth more to this team than Eric wood and kyle Williams. Woods is equal to him. And Taylor is somewhere between Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 First of all, do you seriously believe that Gilmore wants to play in Buffalo? Is this what you think? You and I are far from capable of running a player out of town. Â As far as next year, this team needs a complete rebuild from Brandon on down. Oooo going back to the run a player out because he doesnt like Buffalo based on body language at the draft and what other reason? Â You think if Gilmore was offered Market Value in the offseason he would have not signed. Of course he would have. But its ok Gilmore sucks because he doesnt embrace Buffalo like Fred Jackson or any other player like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I don't care. Gilmore is a kitty. Let him walk, or franchise the SOB. Give me Antoine Winfield any day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Oooo going back to the run a player out because he doesnt like Buffalo based on body language at the draft and what other reason?  You think if Gilmore was offered Market Value in the offseason he would have not signed. Of course he would have. But its ok Gilmore sucks because he doesnt embrace Buffalo like Fred Jackson or any other player like that I see.....you really don't get it. You think that if Gilmore (who played high school and college football at South Carolina) leaves Buffalo for a southern team, it will be because I ran him out of town. Gotcha. How about we agree to disagree and please accept my wishes for a happy holiday season for you and all of your loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eme123 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Ive had a change of heart after the past 3 games. Looks to me like he's playing not to get hurt rather than playing to win games. He doesn't seem to be the only one either. Â Let this guy get paid somewhere else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 He isn't worth retaining. This team already has too much money wrapped up in players who do not deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 The burnt often part lovely. Completely false but doesnt matter i guess  So when we run Gilmore out of town this offseason who it the next player we are gonna scapegoat for wanting to be paid?  Sammy? Just starting my offseason prep and want to know who i need to sharpen pitchforks for   He had SEVERAL BAD GAMES THIS YEAR. Look at the "goats" tally from at the end of the season.   Watkins? May be. Cant stay healthy. Not managements fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 They, reportedly offered him a deal. He wanted more. So they do believe in him. At a certain pay grade. That's business. Ok, right, I forgot they did try to sign him. Anyhow, agree - hope he moves along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 No id still pay Gilmore. Â Despite that **** attempt at a tackle he is still a good corner. He won't tackle when he's not being paid. Why will all off a sudden become a tackler when he's fat and happy with a big contract? This notion that he's trying not to get injured doesn't wash. He's never been anything more than a mediocre tackler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 He won't tackle when he's not being paid. Why will all off a sudden become a tackler when he's fat and happy with a big contract? This notion that he's trying not to get injured doesn't wash. He's never been anything more than a mediocre tackler. And who cares. Get me better Lbers i dont need my Corner making plays a Lber should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 And who cares. Get me better Lbers i dont need my Corner making plays a Lber should. Team defense. Have to tackle the ball carrier but Gilmore is a loser and doesn't care about doing any dirty work. Needs to be gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Team defense. Have to tackle the ball carrier but Gilmore is a loser and doesn't care about doing any dirty work. Needs to be gone So team stuff only applies to Players you dont like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Maybe money better spent elsewhere, but I read the cap may increase dramatically next year. Money may not be an issue. They can re-sign Gilmore if they want to. But I agree, the money might be better spent elsewhere. Of course that depends on who the coach is and what defense is being run. If they play a defense that requires good man cover CB's then Gilmore would be a good expenditure up to a certain level. I like him, I just don't think 15 million is going to bring good returns for the team overall. He will never, as most CB's, shut down everybody. Meanwhile, paying him that much might leave holes elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 You Gilmore are no Robert James in the tackling dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Buh-bye Chiffon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I would like to have him back at a fair market value and then I would bring coaches that can teach fundamentals.  Whaley tried to re-sign him at aproximately 10-11 mill per year. He wanted to be payed like a top 5 CB.  Let's see what spotrac says about his market value  Market Value4 yrs, $43,814,944 Avg. Salary: $10,953,736 NFL Rank: #69 CB Rank: #9 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stephon-gilmore-9820/market-value/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I think he is a good player who could be great. This is what frustrates us as fans. The team will be worse with out him however. Are you willing to take a step back at the position ? Tough call for me. I have losing assets for nothing in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I would like to have him back at a fair market value and then I would bring coaches that can teach fundamentals. Â Whaley tried to re-sign him at aproximately 10-11 mill per year. He wanted to be payed like a top 5 CB. Â Let's see what spotrac says about his market value Market Value 4 yrs, $43,814,944 Avg. Salary: $10,953,736 NFL Rank: #69 CB Rank: #9 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stephon-gilmore-9820/market-value/ That has been updated because earlier in the year think it wwas closer to 14M a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Â The bonkers bit about this? Darby (in 250 less snaps), 7 missed tackles. Gilmore, 7 missed tackles. That's before today, according to PFF. Hand on my heart, they might be generous on Darby's MT's. possibly had 4 a couple weeks ago vs PIT, credit for 2. Thing about Darby is he is 110% effort all the time. Yesterday showed that. And he will improve. Â I have gone back and forth with Gilmore. But i dont care how good he is if he is not willing to leave it all on the field for his team mates . And he has never done that. He is very good cover corner though. Â Next ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Thing about Darby is he is 110% effort all the time. Yesterday showed that. And he will improve. Â I have gone back and forth with Gilmore. But i dont care how good he is if he is not willing to leave it all on the field for his team mates . And he has never done that. He is very good cover corner though. Â Next ! How do we know Darby will improve. His trend is one of regression. Â I love when Hope is part of a discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I think he is a good player who could be great. This is what frustrates us as fans. The team will be worse with out him however. Are you willing to take a step back at the position ? Tough call for me. I have losing assets for nothing in return. I agree with most of this. But I think Stephon is going to play the game like this regardless. Look to FA and draft another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 That has been updated because earlier in the year think it wwas closer to 14M a year  Good to see they pay attention to every player in the league. I rather have someone like Captain Munnerlynn (numbers below) than overpaying for Gilmore.  Market Value3 yrs, $25,608,782 Avg. Salary: $8,536,261 NFL Rank: #138 CB Rank: #19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 How do we know Darby will improve. His trend is one of regression. Â I love when Hope is part of a discussion I think that is harsh. If he played so well the first season he can obviously do it again. You know as well as I do CBs have a longer learning curve then two seasons. They are an investment, which is what makes it such a pain to let Gilmore go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I think that is harsh. If he played so well the first season he can obviously do it again. You know as well as I do CBs have a longer learning curve then two seasons. They are an investment, which is what makes it such a pain to let Gilmore go I understand that but the reality is 2 years 2 coaches trend regression. Not likely year 3 with a 3rd coach doesnt scream will improve to me. Â Specially when his regression was back to his college norms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I understand that but the reality is 2 years 2 coaches trend regression. Not likely year 3 with a 3rd coach doesnt scream will improve to me. Â Specially when his regression was back to his college norms. I am not suggesting screaming ! : ) Our secondary has regressed in general. I really don't think he has played poorly. Â I am fine letting Gilmore go regardless of money. It creates a hole for sure, buts that is why Coaches Coach. Â C'mon Tampa 2 !! lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I am not suggesting screaming ! : ) Our secondary has regressed in general. I really don't think he has played poorly. Â I am fine letting Gilmore go regardless of money. It creates a hole for sure, buts that is why Coaches Coach. Â C'mon Tampa 2 !! lolz I get it. I made the point early that it isnt likely the best use if assets with the way this team is built right now. Â But i just find the guys funny that want to say Seymour and such will be better. Ummm no they wont Gilmore was by far the best CB on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I get it. I made the point early that it isnt likely the best use if assets with the way this team is built right now. Â But i just find the guys funny that want to say Seymour and such will be better. Ummm no they wont Gilmore was by far the best CB on this team. Oh heck no Kevon is not better, may never be better. Losing Gilmore is going to be a huge drop off at first. again that what makes it so hard. Â But for ? He aint my kinda player. But i am not doug whaley soo.. : ) and yes, the Defense is not built up properly yet, so no one player is going to make or break them. agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I am not suggesting screaming ! : ) Our secondary has regressed in general. I really don't think he has played poorly. Â I am fine letting Gilmore go regardless of money. It creates a hole for sure, buts that is why Coaches Coach. Â C'mon Tampa 2 !! lolz ...Tampa2. Those are fighting words. Don't you dare say we need Tampa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 ...Tampa2. Those are fighting words. Don't you dare say we need Tampa 2 I am more of the Cover 3 concept guys. Â The Tampa 2 has been busted easily with all they new Jacked up WRs playing TE. Of course if you have a QB willing to throw those cover 2 busters over and over (We know Brady will) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I am more of the Cover 3 concept guys. Â The Tampa 2 has been busted easily with all they new Jacked up WRs playing TE. Of course if you have a QB willing to throw those cover 2 busters over and over (We know Brady will) cover 3 lasts two more yrs as highly reasonable base coverage. Â Interior 1 cut running continues to dominate as I foretold. As the ss isn't enough to stop the Rb and the fs is left defenseless teams will have to go to more tradition base defenses. Â I can't wait for 2017 and the running that's gonna happen all over. Unfortunately I don't think McCoy is what we need. He's no ajayi, Peterson or Elliot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 cover 3 lasts two more yrs as highly reasonable base coverage. Â Interior 1 cut running continues to dominate as I foretold. As the ss isn't enough to stop the Rb and the fs is left defenseless teams will have to go to more tradition base defenses. Â I can't wait for 2017 and the running that's gonna happen all over. Unfortunately I don't think McCoy is what we need. He's no ajayi, Peterson or Elliot. No love for TD Mike ? ...Tampa2. Those are fighting words. Don't you dare say we need Tampa 2 Ha ! You still feel the pain too ? How about "bend don't break " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Guys, shoulder tackling is actually less safe than proper tackling. He was not playing to save his body. He just isn't very good at tackling. Still played decent in coverage. The key word in your reply is "decent". He wants top 5 $$$$$$. Let him walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Out of curuoisoty... who is the best tackler among all CBS? Who has the most tackles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 (edited) The burnt often part lovely. Completely false but doesnt matter i guess  So when we run Gilmore out of town this offseason who it the next player we are gonna scapegoat for wanting to be paid?  Sammy? Just starting my offseason prep and want to know who i need to sharpen pitchforks for You don't pay top dollar for guys with no heart and guys who underachieve. You try to come off like an expert but you are lacking common sense. If you have that big a man crush on him then you can follow whatever team he runs off to. He will probably get big money but if were the club that does it were crazy. He is one of the worst tacklers I have ever seen and yes he often plays timid and scared. I think he had one game where he had 2 picks but other than that he doesn't even have big play value. dump him Edited December 25, 2016 by offsides#76FredSmerlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 You don't pay top dollar for guys with no heart and guys who underachieve. You try to come off like an expert but you are lacking common sense. If you have that big a man crush on him then you can follow whatever team he runs off to. He will probably get big money but if were the club that does it were crazy. He is one of the worst tacklers I have ever seen and yes he often plays timid and scared. I think he had one game where he had 2 picks but other than that he doesn't even have big play value. dump him Read my posts on him tell me there is a man crush. Â Sorry though i want to expose the false statements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Out of curuoisoty... who is the best tackler among all CBS? Who has the most tackles? Â Most tackles isn't entirely telling the story with CB's in run support. Bad corners can rack up tackles after the catch pretty easily. Â In recent years, I'd probably say someone like Charles Tillman. Currently in the NFL, not many good ones spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 You don't pay top dollar for guys with no heart and guys who underachieve. You try to come off like an expert but you are lacking common sense. If you have that big a man crush on him then you can follow whatever team he runs off to. He will probably get big money but if were the club that does it were crazy. He is one of the worst tacklers I have ever seen and yes he often plays timid and scared. I think he had one game where he had 2 picks but other than that he doesn't even have big play value. dump him Who do you replace him with? Do you think that anyone will be an upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Â Most tackles isn't entirely telling the story with CB's in run support. Bad corners can rack up tackles after the catch pretty easily. Â In recent years, I'd probably say someone like Charles Tillman. Currently in the NFL, not many good ones spring to mind. Malcolm Butler is a pretty solid tackler. Â Others that come to mind for me include Damarious Randall and Jason Verrett. Â That's about it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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