Anybody Have A Change Of Heart About Gilmore?

[All_Pro_Bills]

Under different circumstances signing Gilmore to a big deal would make sense but given how poor this defense is the money might be wisely spent elsewhere. This defense is just too slow all over but noticeably at OLB. And the safety position needs a significant upgrade.

Edited December 25, 2016 by All_Pro_Bills

[PO16FFS]

Under different circumstances signing Gilmore to a big deal would make sense but given how poor this defense is the money might be wisely spent elsewhere. This defense is just too slow all over but noticeably at OLB. And the safety position needs a significant upgrade.

 

Preston Brown is not a good football player!

[Boatdrinks]

No one on this team other than McCoy deserve to get protected.

But you can't change the entire Defense, so they have to decide on SG due to his contract status. The price tag greatly exceeds the value, and the guy brings almost no intangibles to the table. The Bills should pass on SG and spend those $ elsewhere.

[PO16FFS]

But you can't change the entire Defense, so they have to decide on SG due to his contract status. The price tag greatly exceeds the value, and the guy brings almost no intangibles to the table. The Bills should pass on SG and spend those $ elsewhere.

Good post. Not sure what some on here see what he brings. Good for him that he will make his money and have a good life. I just don't his passion for the game. The will to win. And yes, once again he got injured again.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Deion Sanders sucked at tackling too. Most corners suck at it outside of Aqib Taleb.

Winfield was a fine tackler, but yes, it's the exception not the rule. That looks like the weakness the phins exploit with Ajayi. Run that big horse outside challenging the corners in run support.

 

Preston Brown is not a good football player!

"I'll take him off of your hands"- signed Jim

 

No one on this team other than McCoy deserve to get protected.

The running back unit, less Reggie is solid. LeShady, Gilly, Felton all get a pass in my view. J-will dunno yet

Edited December 25, 2016 by Over 28 years of fanhood

[thebandit27]

Anyone that believes he can be easily replaced is in for a rude awakening.

 

He's a top-10 corner, and there's a reason why teams don't target him in the pass game.

 

There's also a reason why he's smothered receivers like Allen Robinson, Antonio Brown, and Terrelle Pryor (among others) in the last 6 weeks.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

It's amazing.

 

Any time we have a FA up for a pay day fans slam them due to any mistake they make as a way to justify not paying him.

 

It's like some sort of defense mechanism in that they feel OBD won't pay the guy so they have to convince themselves he's not worth it.

Dude, Gilmore is soft as baby ****. You are never going to turn this thing around if you are making Gilmore one of your largest contracts.

[thebandit27]

Dude, Gilmore is soft as baby ****. You are never going to turn this thing around if you are making Gilmore one of your largest contracts.

This is a contextually-bereft, purely emotional argument.

 

I typically like your posts, but c'mon man.

 

PS Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

This is a contextually-bereft, purely emotional argument.

 

I typically like your posts, but c'mon man.

 

PS Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah

Guys who throw shoulders when they are in perfect tackling position cost their team games. He isn't good enough in coverage to make up for his lack of effort when it comes to tackling. He is good but he isn't going to make the difference between the Bills ending the drought or not. Use the money on more competitive players.

[TPS]

It's amazing.

Any time we have a FA up for a pay day fans slam them due to any mistake they make as a way to justify not paying him.

It's like some sort of defense mechanism in that they feel OBD won't pay the guy so they have to convince themselves he's not worth it.

so true. Gilmore and Darby will make a very solid tandem with a new (good) DC.

[JohnC]

Anyone that believes he can be easily replaced is in for a rude awakening.

 

He's a top-10 corner, and there's a reason why teams don't target him in the pass game.

 

There's also a reason why he's smothered receivers like Allen Robinson, Antonio Brown, and Terrelle Pryor (among others) in the last 6 weeks.

He's a top tier cover corner who if he leaves this team will pay handsomely to try to replace him. The same people who criticize Gilmore will react with indignation when a high draft pick or a high cost free agent is brought in to fill the vacancy.

 

This league has a large number of game breaking receivers. Those types of special talents are going to win their share of battles with the corners covering them. That's a reality that even the best corners in the league have to deal with. Having a corner that can stay with elite receivers and straight up contest them , even if some battles are lost, is a precious commodity.

 

I don't understand the hostility directed toward Gilmore. He was a highly ranked player coming out of college for the simple reason that he was a very talented player playing one of the most challenging positions in the game. What's so perplexing is that overall he has been a stellar player for us. Yet the hound dogs continue to bark at one of our best defensive players. There are plenty of underachieving defensive players to focus one's attention on. In this case it is misplaced. I don't get it!

 

My recommendation is to pay the CB with dreadlocks his market value (not go beyond) and address other positions of greater need. There certainly are plenty of areas on this porous defense that need addressing. Where he plays is not one of them.

Edited December 25, 2016 by JohnC

[JohnC]

It's simple.

 

Hostility towards Gilmore is there because at times he's shown a hesitancy to tackle in the open field and he's a FA that will get a lot of money that many fans don't feel we will pay him. So they bash him as justification for when we don't resign him.

He is far from being a perfect player. The criticism that he is not a good tackler is valid. But it is not unusual that a top cover corner isn't a superb tackler and isn't a thumper as some safeties are. His biggest asset is covering ability. and it is an asset that should be coveted not diminished because of his lack of crunching physical play.

 

You are right that the primary source of the hostility towards Gilmore is his status of being a free agent. There is a recognition that he will receive a big payday from the market that the Bills may not be inclined to match. That in itself is an admission that he is a valued player.

 

If the Bills don't resign him because of cap considerations or they simply make a judgment that the value ratio to contract size doesn't match, then so be it. Those are the the type of decisions all teams are faced with. Good players leave teams all the time. That's an inescapable part of the business.

 

It just seems to me that the general fan attitude towards Gilmore is a demonstration of resentfulness. I just don't like that attitude. It seems so small to me.

Edited December 25, 2016 by JohnC

[Boatdrinks]

He's a top tier cover corner who if he leaves this team will pay handsomely to try to replace him. The same people who criticize Gilmore will react with indignation when a high draft pick or a high cost free agent is brought in to fill the vacancy.

 

This league has a large number of game breaking receivers. Those types of special talents are going to win their share of battles with the corners covering them. That's a reality that even the best corners in the league have to deal with. Having a corner that can stay with elite receivers and straight up contest them , even if some battles are lost, is a precious commodity.

 

I don't understand the hostility directed toward Gilmore. He was a highly ranked player coming out of college for the simple reason that he was a very talented player playing one of the most challenging positions in the game. What's so perplexing is that overall he has been a stellar player for us. Yet the hound dogs continue to bark at one of our best defensive players. There are plenty of underachieving defensive players to focus one's attention on. In this case it is misplaced. I don't get it!

 

My recommendation is to pay the CB with dreadlocks his market value (not go beyond) and address other positions of greater need. There certainly are plenty of areas on this porous defense that need addressing. Where he plays is not one of them.

 

When I watch a player in say, Seattles secondary I think " I'd pay that guy in FA he's worth it. " Then I see Gilmore play. Definitely not worth it. They will draft a CB or fill it with a better FA. Gilmore is soft and not even worth his current salary. He's not what the defense needs to make it elite. That's about it. Why pay a guy that gives halfhearted effort? If you don't know how to tackle by now , it's just a part of the game that he has no taste for. Cares only about the payday, doesn't have that burning desire to hit someone.

It's amazing.

Any time we have a FA up for a pay day fans slam them due to any mistake they make as a way to justify not paying him.

It's like some sort of defense mechanism in that they feel OBD won't pay the guy so they have to convince themselves he's not worth it.

Those days are over with and were as soon as the Wilson regime ended. Any fan paying attention no longer feels that way. They simply don't want the Bills to pay the guy. Dollars will be spent, just better spent elsewhere. Overpaying a CB isn't the ticket to improving the defense.

[bananathumb]

He's a cowardly piece of @#$%

[MAJBobby]

This team will he worse with not Gilmore at CB.

[purple haze]

I get it, Gilmore wants to stay healthy for a big contract somewhere else next season. Remember how bad Clements wanted out of Buffalo? We have seen this before.

 

Even given the above, Gilmore (imo) is a disgrace and I truly do hope he moves on. A case could be made that his attempt at a "shoulder tackle" cost us a game with playoff implications, on Christmas Eve.

 

I like when we fans disagree. It makes this board great and I learn from good dialogue. Can anyone explain to me how getting rid of Mario was good but losing Gilmore would be bad?

 

My take is good riddance to both!

No change of heart at top 5 CB money. If he takes 11-12 million then by all means bring him back. Gilmore's tackling style has always been the same; using his shoulder instead of wrapping up with his arms. That didn't just start this season. He's injured himself doing that in past seasons. But he's good in coverage over all, although he can have his rough patches like most CB's in the league. There are no Deion Sanders' or Rod Woodson levels in today's NFL.

I think what is overlooked is why wasn't he traded last off-season? Why go into the season with a guy the Bills front office did not believe enough in to give a long-term contract to? It creates an mistrusting environment with neither party knowing or believing the intentions of the other. If the front office didn't really believe in the guy, then see what you can do on the trade market. All this said, I didn't see the game (yet), but if what you say is accurate, then the guy is truly a disgrace - regardless of circumstances, contracts, or whatever. It's about having competitors on the field and he's been a weak link in that regard, it seems.

They, reportedly offered him a deal. He wanted more. So they do believe in him. At a certain pay grade. That's business.

[boyst]

We have been so insanely spoiled by above average corner play that we don't realize they grow on trees. How many actually good corners are out there? Look what losing Norman did to the panthers? And he was replaced by two rookies playing better than expected.

When you have the right pieces already established its important to keep them. We let mckelvin, brooks go to try to keep Gilmore. If we fail at Gilmore it will set us back at least one game next yr and something that will take a few yrs to recover from. Even if we draft a stellar cb who can fill in we have other needs we must address. You build thru the draft and keep your talent that you have developed when you can. In hindsight paying guys like Hughes and Aaron Williams has shown to be a joke. Gilmore does not miss games and plays a much more important role than either.

[MAJBobby]

We have been so insanely spoiled by above average corner play that we don't realize they grow on trees. How many actually good corners are out there? Look what losing Norman did to the panthers? And he was replaced by two rookies playing better than expected.

When you have the right pieces already established its important to keep them. We let mckelvin, brooks go to try to keep Gilmore. If we fail at Gilmore it will set us back at least one game next yr and something that will take a few yrs to recover from. Even if we draft a stellar cb who can fill in we have other needs we must address. You build thru the draft and keep your talent that you have developed when you can. In hindsight paying guys like Hughes and Aaron Williams has shown to be a joke. Gilmore does not miss games and plays a much more important role than either.

Yeah Carolina didnt need Norman so much watch this contract they are about to hand Gilmore in the offseason when they get the chance

[PO16FFS]

Bandit keeps saying he is a top 10 corner in the league.

 

Also mentionning his game against Brown is pointless. The weather was awful and it was difficult to pass.

[MAJBobby]

Bandit keeps saying he is a top 10 corner in the league.

 

Also mentionning his game against Brown is pointless. The weather was awful and it was difficult to pass.

How about against Fitzgerald AJ Green? There are many examples over and over of him taking a premier WR out of the game

[PO16FFS]

We have been so insanely spoiled by above average corner play that we don't realize they grow on trees. How many actually good corners are out there? Look what losing Norman did to the panthers? And he was replaced by two rookies playing better than expected.

When you have the right pieces already established its important to keep them. We let mckelvin, brooks go to try to keep Gilmore. If we fail at Gilmore it will set us back at least one game next yr and something that will take a few yrs to recover from. Even if we draft a stellar cb who can fill in we have other needs we must address. You build thru the draft and keep your talent that you have developed when you can. In hindsight paying guys like Hughes and Aaron Williams has shown to be a joke. Gilmore does not miss games and plays a much more important role than either.

 

Other than rookie year, he hasnt played a full season.

How about against Fitzgerald AJ Green? There are many examples over and over of him taking a premier WR out of the game

How about against Fitzpatrick and the Jets? There are many examples over and over of him making the wrong play, taking penalties and just quitting on tackling or looking to blame others.

[Fan in Chicago]

Our secondary as a whole is bad. Gilmore has shown good things but several good things too. Considering that the overall D is up for an upgrade in the offseason, we need to keep as many of the good ones as we have and upgrade the other positions. Badly need safety help, as an example. Having said that, there is a budget to be mindful of and hence I would set a ceiling to his value and see where it shakes out.

 

On a related note, it is striking how poorly the D has performed this season. Is it Ryan alone ? Rob Ryan or does Ed Reed also shoulder some of the blame for the poor secondary ? Gilmore is just one piece of this evaluation. Some of his performance is self preservation, but how much of it was due to poor schemes, being put in bad situations, having to cover for our weakness at safety, lack of communication ? Coaching evaluators should assess the overall performance and make changes where they need to be made. If it were up to me, as I said before, I would retain Gilmore at perhaps a top 6-10 corner scale.

[offsides#76FredSmerlas]

I get it, Gilmore wants to stay healthy for a big contract somewhere else next season. Remember how bad Clements wanted out of Buffalo? We have seen this before.

 

Even given the above, Gilmore (imo) is a disgrace and I truly do hope he moves on. A case could be made that his attempt at a "shoulder tackle" cost us a game with playoff implications, on Christmas Eve.

 

I like when we fans disagree. It makes this board great and I learn from good dialogue. Can anyone explain to me how getting rid of Mario was good but losing Gilmore would be bad?

 

My take is good riddance to both!

I doubt that in the heat of the battle Gilmore is pondering his contract. I mean if anything, he would get better money if he made more tackles and played better. The bottom line is he lacks heart and is not tough, Seymour in my opinion plays the same way. I would not give him a big pay day, use the money elsewhere.

[MAJBobby]

 

Other than rookie year, he hasnt played a full season.

 

How about against Fitzpatrick and the Jets? There are many examples over and over of him making the wrong play, taking penalties and just quitting on tackling or looking to blame others.

Going to the One game to trump last 3 years i see

 

Maybe Rex should not have ran Donnie Henderson out if town for Ed Reed.

 

But wanted to get fully pregnant

I doubt that in the heat of the battle Gilmore is pondering his contract. I mean if anything, he would get better money if he made more tackles and played better. The bottom line is he lacks heart and is not tough, Seymour in my opinion plays the same way. I would not give him a big pay day, use the money elsewhere.

Ha ha yeah watch his contract he is about to get CB DO NOT get paid because they can tackle.

 

One person leaves this year the entire secondary regresses under Rex and his Minions but its on Gilmore because he had a couple bad games. Was it Gilmore or the scheme. Hmmm

Edited December 25, 2016 by MAJBobby

[klos63]

Going to the One game to trump last 3 years i see

 

Maybe Rex should not have ran Donnie Henderson out if town for Ed Reed.

 

But wanted to get fully pregnant

just wanted to make note that I totally agree with you. A Christmas miracle.

 

Reed with no coaching experience replaces Henderson, who seemed to be an outstanding coach.

[MAJBobby]

just wanted to make note that I totally agree with you. A Christmas miracle.

 

Reed with no coaching experience replaces Henderson, who seemed to be an outstanding coach.

See not everything it on TT i can be very critical on other areas of the team in those threads.

 

However as much as i think the team is worse without Gilmore this team is not a Top 10 CB away from a run. Better use those assets elsewhere specially if we are overhauling the coaching staff and defensive philosophy

[I'm Spartacus]

I think Gilmore is an above average player, but not elite. What bothers me about him is his lack of fire & intensity.

I'm on the fence with him. But I am almost to the point where I would take a less talented corner with leadership skills and heart, over a player who "plays not to get hurt".

Just my 3 cents.

[MAJBobby]

I think Gilmore is an above average player, but not elite. What bothers me about him is his lack of fire & intensity.

I'm on the fence with him. But I am almost to the point where I would take a less talented corner with leadership skills and heart, over a player who "plays not to get hurt".

Just my 3 cents.

Bet he doesnt play not to get hurt if he had a contract in place. Just saying because history with him shows he will play hard

[klos63]

See not everything it on TT i can be very critical on other areas of the team in those threads.

 

However as much as i think the team is worse without Gilmore this team is not a Top 10 CB away from a run. Better use those assets elsewhere specially if we are overhauling the coaching staff and defensive philosophy

Maybe money better spent elsewhere, but I read the cap may increase dramatically next year. Money may not be an issue.

[boyst]

Yeah Carolina didnt need Norman so much watch this contract they are about to hand Gilmore in the offseason when they get the chance

good sources show he is headed to Carolina but not opposed to re-signing with the bills

[MAJBobby]

Maybe money better spent elsewhere, but I read the cap may increase dramatically next year. Money may not be an issue.

True money might not be. But Scheme could be. Say they hire a Cover 3 Philosophy DC. Gilmore is gonna struggle because of the amount if off coverage there.

 

Just like i think he will struggle in Carolina if they keep their Zone heavy concepts.

 

He is a man cover physical press CB that is the type if defense he needs to be in.

good sources show he is headed to Carolina but not opposed to re-signing with the bills

Yeah his Women has said that often

 

I think he struggles in Carolina unless they change up their Zone heavy concepts

[PO16FFS]

Bet he doesnt play not to get hurt if he had a contract in place. Just saying because history with him shows he will play hard

 

 

What history? Remember when he played with the club? Remember when he quit on a play and looked at others? Remember when he hurt himself tackling with his neck down?

I watch the games, he is ok. nothing more, nothing less.

 

If our highest paid players will be: TT, MD, SG, then this Bills team is in BIG BIG TROUBLE FOR YEARS TO COME!

[klos63]

True money might not be. But Scheme could be. Say they hire a Cover 3 Philosophy DC. Gilmore is gonna struggle because of the amount if off coverage there.

 

Just like i think he will struggle in Carolina if they keep their Zone heavy concepts.

 

He is a man cover physical press CB that is the type if defense he needs to be in.

Goes back to the biggest blunder we made in Rex, need to hire a DC that fits the talent we have.

[MAJBobby]

 

 

What history? Remember when he played with the club? Remember when he quit on a play and looked at others? Remember when he hurt himself tackling with his neck down?

I watch the games, he is ok. nothing more, nothing less.

 

If our highest paid players will be: TT, MD, SG, then this Bills team is in BIG BIG TROUBLE FOR YEARS TO COME!

I do watch the games. Sorry you want our CB to be a Lber. Idea get better LBer and then your cover Corner doesnt need to be one in the fans eyes

[Bill from NYC]

When you have the right pieces already established its important to keep them. We let mckelvin, brooks go to try to keep Gilmore. If we fail at Gilmore it will set us back at least one game next yr and something that will take a few yrs to recover from.

Really Bro. Seriously? Losing him will set us back a game next year? How about the game he lost us yesterday? Would that make it a wash? If he was as great as some purport him to be, this team would be winning lots of games and playoff bound.

And when you speak of, "a few years to recover," I do think it begs the question, recover from what? From 17 years of no playoffs? From Gilmore getting burned often? From his lack of effort?

 

It can't get much worse imo and if it somehow did, we would draft in the top 5.

[MAJBobby]

Really Bro. Seriously? Losing him will set us back a game next year? How about the game he lost us yesterday? Would that make it a wash? If he was as great as some purport him to be, this team would be winning lots of games and playoff bound.

And when you speak of, "a few years to recover," I do think it begs the question, recover from what? From 17 years of no playoffs? From Gilmore getting burned often? From his lack of effort?

 

It can't get much worse imo and if it somehow did, we would draft in the top 5.

The burnt often part lovely. Completely false but doesnt matter i guess

 

So when we run Gilmore out of town this offseason who it the next player we are gonna scapegoat for wanting to be paid?

 

Sammy? Just starting my offseason prep and want to know who i need to sharpen pitchforks for

Edited December 25, 2016 by MAJBobby

[PO16FFS]

The burnt often part lovely. Completely false but doesnt matter i guess

Not false.

 

He is a typical Bills player. Under pressure, he wilts like the rest of them.

 

Frank

[MAJBobby]

Not false.

 

He is a typical Bills player. Under pressure, he wilts like the rest of them.

 

Frank

Yet every measurable coverage stat shows its false Edited December 25, 2016 by MAJBobby

[Bill from NYC]

The burnt often part lovely. Completely false but doesnt matter i guess

 

So when we run Gilmore out of town this offseason who it the next player we are gonna scapegoat for wanting to be paid?

 

Sammy? Just starting my offseason prep and want to know who i need to sharpen pitchforks for

First of all, do you seriously believe that Gilmore wants to play in Buffalo? Is this what you think? You and I are far from capable of running a player out of town.

 

As far as next year, this team needs a complete rebuild from Brandon on down.

[stony]

I urge many here to watch the CB play around the NFL. It's piss poor.

 

Our's have played well considering they're often in the wrong position given Rob Ryan is an idiot.