Kaepernick and the National Anthem

[Maury Ballstein]

I think the vast majority of Americans do believe that and do practice it.

 

A lot of this may be generational. Are you a baby boomer? Your elevator analogy indicates you probably are. My generation doesn't have quite the same hang-ups. And my kids have no idea what we are even talking about. To them everyone is defined by their social media page not their skin color.

Agree. Everyone seems to be getting along just fine in Hampton Roads.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think the vast majority of Americans do believe that and do practice it.

 

A lot of this may be generational. Are you a baby boomer? Your elevator analogy indicates you probably are. My generation doesn't have quite the same hang-ups. And my kids have no idea what we are even talking about. To them everyone is defined by their social media page not their skin color.

I agree that kids are much, much less likely to see color as any difference, which is a great thing. And a generation or two from now the country will be enormously different, and better.

[What a Tuel]

I do, and you do, too. And I will almost always say something nice, or joke with him or her, which is racist, I know, but in a good way.

 

I don't even know what the heck you are talking about now. This idea that the country views things a certain way because you do it and it is very clear to you is a bit presumptuous.

 

That's like saying something racist and then attributing it to the country because you are part of the country.

 

Edit: and no, noticing that someone is a different or same skin color as you is not racist lol.

Edited August 28, 2016 by What a Tuel

[Kelly the Dog]

Racism is taught.

[Magox]

You bring up good points, and I believe America and Americans to be amongst the most tolerant and generous people, too. But that doesn't mean they are not racist, as well. After reading that article, I'm not sure it gauges the kind of racism that is widespread across the country at all. All it did is ask a bunch of people who would you not want to live in your neighborhood. Americans, regardless of their level of racism, are not going to answer "Black people!!!" to that question no matter what.

 

I'm sure if there were some well-executed very private polling done, you'd see that racism exists just as much in minority households as they do in white ones.

 

There is blatant and what I consider to be ugly racism and then there is soft racism. The soft racism more than anything is a general lack of understanding of cultures. It's not out of malicious intent just that often people tend to react with fear when they don't understand something. This sort of understanding, despite the current political climate is definitely improving as the years go by. People are being exposed to different cultures and as a result there is generally a higher level of tolerance. Don't get me wrong, these things as most things don't move in a linear fashion, there certainly are hiccups along the way.

 

Look at what is happening in Europe, there has been a huge Muslim migration and there has been some severe backlash, it's not just in Britain or France but throughout the Scandinavian countries as well. To be honest, it's not just because there are bigoted forces working against many Muslims who have moved to Europe, but also because many Muslims refuse to integrate themselves to western culture. Some people in the U.S have similar sentiments towards Latino's as well.

 

A similar argument can be made for the relationship between law enforcement and people of color. If you are a police officer, most likely you were someone who decided to become an officer for honorable intentions. I have little doubt in my mind that most officers didn't join the police officer so that they could contribute to becoming an oppressive force in this world.

 

These guys risk their lives, if you take away the racial component and just look at stats, they enter into some neighborhoods that are higher risk areas. They are naturally more guarded. I'm not making the case that the police practices have been perfect or anything along those lines, just that we also have to understand it from their point of view. Fear is part of the equation.

 

It's a two way street, and at the end of the day these things are moving in the right direction.

In regards to the article that you were responding to, that people

are not going to answer "Black people!!!" to that question no matter what.

 

 

 

That's quite a supposition, but lets just say there is some validity to that statement. Then that at least means there is more public awareness and consciousness to answer it in such a manner. The other countries didn't even have the awareness to answer it as such, that's if we take your assumption at face value.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Magox

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

I agree that kids are much, much less likely to see color as any difference, which is a great thing. And a generation or two from now the country will be enormously different, and better.

Agreed. Common ground achieved. Second time today!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Well that actually explains a lot. When I stand for the National Anthem, I'm not standing up for a flag or a set of institutions. I'm singing a song of unity with the other 70k or so people and, by extension, 300 million others who live here. That doesn't mean I don't think the institutions can be made better. I do.

 

Yep, This.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

Agreed. Common ground achieved. Second time today!

 

I just hope the Republic can withstand the transition.

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm sure if there were some well-executed very private polling done, you'd see that racism exists just as much in minority households as they do in white ones.

 

There is blatant and what I consider to be ugly racism and then there is soft racism. The soft racism more than anything is a general lack of understanding of cultures. It's not out of malicious intent just that often people tend to react with fear when they don't understand something. This sort of understanding, despite the current political climate is definitely improving as the years go by. People are being exposed to different cultures and as a result there is generally a higher level of tolerance. Don't get me wrong, these things as most things don't move in a linear fashion, there certainly are hiccups along the way.

 

Look at what is happening in Europe, there has been a huge Muslim migration and there has been some severe backlash, it's not just in Britain or France but throughout the Scandinavian countries as well. To be honest, it's not just because there are bigoted forces working against many Muslims who have moved to Europe, but also because many Muslims refuse to integrate themselves to western culture. Some people in the U.S have similar sentiments towards Latino's as well.

 

A similar argument can be made for the relationship between law enforcement and people of color. If you are a police officer, most likely you were someone who decided to become an officer for honorable intentions. I have little doubt in my mind that most officers didn't join the police officer so that they could contribute to becoming an oppressive force in this world.

 

These guys risk their lives, if you take away the racial component and just look at stats, they enter into some neighborhoods that are higher risk areas. They are naturally more guarded. I'm not making the case that the police practices have been perfect or anything along those lines, just that we also have to understand it from their point of view. Fear is part of the equation.

 

It's a two way street, and at the end of the day these things are moving in the right direction.

 

In regards to the article that you were responding to, that people

 

 

That's quite a supposition, but lets just say there is some validity to that statement. Then that at least means there is more public awareness and consciousness to answer it in such a manner. The other countries didn't even have the awareness to answer it as such, that's if we take your assumption at face value.

 

It's a two way street, and at the end of the day these things are moving in the right direction.

 

I agree with almost all of that. Good post. The only thing I would add is it is changing far too slowly for my taste, and I believe in some serious ways it is going backwards, the way older white people are getting further entrenched.

[Mr. WEO]

 

That's publicly available information. Look it up.

 

We both know the answer---it was being run by a top cop and Mayor hell bent on perpetuating institutional racism.

 

Right?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

We both know the answer---it was being run by a top cop and Mayor hell bent on perpetuating institutional racism.

 

Right?

 

I'm not WEOing today. Answer your own questions in a discussion with yourself.

[Deranged Rhino]

I agree with almost all of that. Good post. The only thing I would add is it is changing far too slowly for my taste, and I believe in some serious ways it is going backwards, the way older white people are getting further entrenched.

 

If it feels like it's going backwards it's probably because there has been a very large, very artificial push to try to manufacture race riots and civil disorder over the past year.

[K-9]

I just read Tim Ghraham's snippet in today's news about this issue. We can debate Kaerpernick's protest all we want, but this theme of "disrespecting America and the anthem and the flag" is a bit hard to take when we've all witnessed countless acts of disrespect during the playing of the anthem at various sporting events over the years. I suspect some of these offenders are ripping Kaepernick the most.

 

Graham is right, the anthem is a solemn military war song and it has become bastardized over the years in part because of our insistence that we keep watering it down by playing it at sporting events in front of raucous crowds not assembled for a respectful and solemn salute. This lack of respect for the solemnity of the song and what it truly represents needs to end.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

I I believe in some serious ways it is going backwards, the way older white people are getting further entrenched.

You have a fair point there. Its the secret to Trump's success.

 

Which brings me back quite a few pages: now that we are having this conversation, can the Republic survive it with social media running rampant and mainstream media delegitimizing every institution?

 

And that brings us back to the beginning: is CK helping, or hurting the situation? Is he bringing awareness, or just piling on the hate?

 

I still think the latter, although I will admit I personally have a better understanding of certain views now than 24 hours ago. Not necessarily agree, but understand better.

[FireChan]

I agree with almost all of that. Good post. The only thing I would add is it is changing far too slowly for my taste, and I believe in some serious ways it is going backwards, the way older white people are getting further entrenched.

Racist.

 

Those damn old whites!

Edited August 28, 2016 by FireChan

[What a Tuel]

Racist.

 

Those damn old whites!

 

We would be better off without them! They are just the worst!

 

Love how this isn't seen as racist.

[FireChan]

 

We would be better off without them! They are just the worst!

 

Love how this isn't seen as racist.

Kelly is clearly projecting calling the majority of America racist.

[Prickly Pete]

 

If it feels like it's going backwards it's probably because there has been a very large, very artificial push to try to manufacture race riots and civil disorder over the past year.

 

I finally agree with GreggyT!

[Deranged Rhino]

You have a fair point there. Its the secret to Trump's success.

 

Which brings me back quite a few pages: now that we are having this conversation, can the Republic survive it with social media running rampant and mainstream media delegitimizing every institution?

 

Social media isn't what is bringing the republic down. Social media didn't demolish the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments in an effort to fight "terrorism". Social media didn't sell itself out to the highest bidder and make the bribing of public servants legal and standard operating procedure. Social media hasn't been waging non stop war for 15 years on a credit card in a deluded attempt to "nation build". Social media didn't spend taxpayer money bailing out the very institutions that caused the greatest financial crisis since the 1930s at the expense of the lower and middle class. Social media hasn't sold $190b in arms to monsters all over the globe in just the past 8 years while simultaneously trying to impinge on the rights of its own citizens to own firearms. Social media didn't change the republic into the largest surveillance state in history.

 

There are a lot of reasons why the empire (let's call it what it is) is crumbling -- and social media is way, waaaaay, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down on that list.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

 

Social media isn't what is bringing the republic down. Social media didn't demolish the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments in an effort to fight "terrorism". Social media didn't sell itself out to the highest bidder and make the bribing of public servants legal and standard operating procedure. Social media hasn't been waging non stop war for 15 years on a credit card in a deluded attempt to "nation build". Social media didn't spend taxpayer money bailing out the very institutions that caused the greatest financial crisis since the 1930s at the expense of the lower and middle class. Social media hasn't sold $190b in arms to monsters all over the globe in just the past 8 years while simultaneously trying to impinge on the rights of its own citizens to own firearms. Social media didn't change the republic into the largest surveillance state in history.

 

There are a lot of reasons why the empire (let's call it what it is) is crumbling -- and social media is way, waaaaay, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down on that list.

I can see you've been reading too much social media.