NorthBuffaloKid Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) I don't think the OP is saying there's a K worth the risk in EVERY draft... It is a specialty position... Aguayo was a standout, and to TAM was clearly worth taking the chance... Remember, they already have what they feel is the franchise arm... Why not compliment that with a franchise leg? Yep... We shall see. Edited June 11, 2016 by NorthBuffaloKid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I don't think the OP is saying there's a K worth the risk in EVERY draft... It is a specialty position... Aguayo was a standout, and to TAM was clearly worth taking the chance... Remember, they already have what they feel is the franchise arm... Why not compliment that with a franchise leg? As special as Aguayo is (and I think that he will be one of the best) as shown above the gap between the best and the middle is negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) Right but Janikowski didn't turn the tide for the Raiders with his large amount of points scored as is suggested by the OP. In fact after the Raiders drafted Janikowski in 2000 the raiders exceeded 8-8 just three times (2000,2001,2002). Do you think the Raiders make the same pick if they had a redo? Edit: Granted they did go to the Super Bowl one of those years. Yah, I think they do... -Janky is frickin' awesome... To your point, however, they may reconsider some other first round picks... Derrick Gibson '01... Fabian Washington 'o5... Michael Huff '06... Jamarcus "Purple Drank" Russell '07... Darrius Heyward-Bey '09... etc... As special as Aguayo is (and I think that he will be one of the best) as shown above the gap between the best and the middle is negligible. Look, we're talking about the Suckaneers here... Last time they went to a SB they had the #2 Kicker in the league in Martin Gramatica... They may not have needed him much to win it, but they had a great season which he played a key role in... I don't blame them one bit for building their team this way. Edited June 11, 2016 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBuffaloKid Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 Yah, I think they do... -Janky is frickin' awesome... To your point, however, they may reconsider some other first round picks... Derrick Gibson '01... Fabian Washington 'o5... Michael Huff '06... Jamarcus "Purple Drank" Russell '07... Darrius Heyward-Bey '09... etc... Look, we're talking about the Suckaneers here... Last time they went to a SB they had the #2 Kicker in the league in Martin Gramatica... They may not have needed him much to win it, but they had a great season which he played a key role in... I don't blame them one bit for building their team this way. 2 good points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 There's a very good reason why not one NFL team in the last 15 years has picked a kicker in the 1st round. We made the right call if Lawson is completely healed and has a very productive career with us. As far as the remarks about Tampa, they had one of the best defenses for 10 years in the NFL. Grammatical was a good kicker, but was not even close to the reason they won a SB. It was Sapp (as much as I hate the guy as a person), Brooks, Lynch, Barber, Rice, and McFarland. They were well coached, and masked an average offense. No one here in Tampa thought Gramatica was indispensable, and it is next to impossible to find anyone here in Tampa who agreed with the pick this year. I should know since I've lived in Tampa for the last 25 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 would you agree that Dan may have lost us some games last year ? The ability of the Kicker also changes how the game is managed. Announcers often talk about " getting into field goal range " If you have a " Money " kicker you play the game differently. But there is no comparison as to his value as compared to QB. Apples to Bok Choy I had him on my list if he lasted to the 5th-6th. But that me reaching for a kicker too. He might be an excellent kicker for many years to come ! Well let's look at it. Carpenter missed 6 extra points, and 4 field goals last year. Working backwards 4 out of the 6 missed extra points we ended up winning anyway. A few of us may have had minor heart attacks but we came out with wins. The remaining 2 missed extra points were against the Chiefs in which we lost 30-22, and the Patriots in which we lost 40-32. Maybe momentum changes if we don't miss in either of those games, maybe it doesn't. Hard to tell. As for field goals, out of the 4 missed, 2 still resulted in wins. The remaining two field goals were against the Giants in which we lost 24-10, and the Patriots in which we lost 20-13. While making either of them may have changed the momentum, neither were game changing in a scoring sense. Then you have the field goals that were not attempted because they didn't have faith in Carpenter. This is where I call it quits because I have to get something done today. But if anyone knows a site that maps out where we punted from each game, we could probably tell exactly where we could've tried a field goal with someone like Aguayo rather than punting because of Carpenter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Well let's look at it. Carpenter missed 6 extra points, and 4 field goals last year. Working backwards 4 out of the 6 missed extra points we ended up winning anyway. A few of us may have had minor heart attacks but we came out with wins. The remaining 2 missed extra points were against the Chiefs in which we lost 30-22, and the Patriots in which we lost 40-32. Maybe momentum changes if we don't miss in either of those games, maybe it doesn't. Hard to tell. As for field goals, out of the 4 missed, 2 still resulted in wins. The remaining two field goals were against the Giants in which we lost 24-10, and the Patriots in which we lost 20-13. While making either of them may have changed the momentum, neither were game changing in a scoring sense. Then you have the field goals that were not attempted because they didn't have faith in Carpenter. This is where I call it quits because I have to get something done today. But if anyone knows a site that maps out where we punted from each game, we could probably tell exactly where we could've tried a field goal with someone like Aguayo rather than punting because of Carpenter. Dude. Thanks for breaking it down ! The last paragraph I suppose is more to my question. and we may never know the answer? Getting the ball to a spot where Rex thought he considered . unfortunately you also have to consider the score, the Team being played and heck even momentum. Rabbit hole Mr Tuel. You have explained the details well enough. thanks : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBuffaloKid Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 Dude. Thanks for breaking it down ! The last paragraph I suppose is more to my question. and we may never know the answer? Getting the ball to a spot where Rex thought he considered . unfortunately you also have to consider the score, the Team being played and heck even momentum. Rabbit hole Mr Tuel. You have explained the details well enough. thanks : ) Both of you guys, well said! I think the Giants game was a momentum killer, but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 You don't pick a kicker In the first round for the same reason you don't pick an edge rusher with a bum shoulder in the first round - it causes too much dissension on message boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Well let's look at it. Carpenter missed 6 extra points, and 4 field goals last year. Working backwards 4 out of the 6 missed extra points we ended up winning anyway. A few of us may have had minor heart attacks but we came out with wins. The remaining 2 missed extra points were against the Chiefs in which we lost 30-22, and the Patriots in which we lost 40-32. Maybe momentum changes if we don't miss in either of those games, maybe it doesn't. Hard to tell. As for field goals, out of the 4 missed, 2 still resulted in wins. The remaining two field goals were against the Giants in which we lost 24-10, and the Patriots in which we lost 20-13. While making either of them may have changed the momentum, neither were game changing in a scoring sense. Then you have the field goals that were not attempted because they didn't have faith in Carpenter. This is where I call it quits because I have to get something done today. But if anyone knows a site that maps out where we punted from each game, we could probably tell exactly where we could've tried a field goal with someone like Aguayo rather than punting because of Carpenter. In fairness to Carpenter, we were the most penalized team in the NFL last season.... We drew more flags, and lost more yardage than any other team.... That lack of discipline will put ANY kicker, no matter how accurate, in crappy situations... I put that aspect on Rex.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 If Buffalo took a kicker in round 1 RWS would have been pillaged and burnt to the ground. Get real. At least that would have been a fun start to a new stadium. Maybe the fire could have been started by drunken fans jumping on tables. This, was sadly and unsuccessfully attempted last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Remember that Tom didn't deflate the balls. He got in trouble for interfering with the investigation. ;-) i like you despite your kicker ramblings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Even if the value is there for a kicker in the first you could still probably have him in the second. I was hoping the Bills might spend a late 3rd on Aguayo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Aguayo seemed to be less "automatic" each year, but was still very good. Those "short" kickoffs were, I believe, intentional to allow for better coverage and hopefully a better starting point for the defense. This would be even more important with a 25 yard line starting point. That kick off hang time could be a big deal for some teams. (Not to the Bills, as we'd have some type of penalty, of course.) Still not round one material in my mind, but an interesting thought. We could draft his little brother in a few years if we don't have any other holes to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Civilization is dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Maybe the Bills should trade their next three first rounders for a kicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Both of you guys, well said! I think the Giants game was a momentum killer, but I'm not sure. No, the Bills sucked in every aspect of that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Even if the value is there for a kicker in the first you could still probably have him in the second. I was hoping the Bills might spend a late 3rd on Aguayo. I thought the kicker was a sexy pick in the 4th round but I really like the way the draft fell for us....and I like our picks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I was betting our 4th rd pick for Aguayo, but happy with Cardale Jones for sure. Would not regret the Bill's first 3 picks at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Remember that Tom didn't deflate the balls. He got in trouble for interfering with the investigation.;-) The sad thing is Patriot fans really believe this. You don't have one without the other. If he didn't have the balls deflated then he wouldn't be destroying phones and lying and not cooperating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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