McCoy's nightclub fight and the ongoing investigation

[YoloinOhio]

I was watching People vs OJ last night and thinking about how a case can look cut and dried but you get a bunch of pricey attorneys together and they will find any angle to show the prosecution that the case isn't going to be so easy to prove. I am sure they are diving into every last sordid detail of those cops. This also kind of what happened with Jameis Winston. They didn't think they could win because of what his lawyers dug up on the girl, and that she didn't remember clearly what happened because of the alcohol involved, so couldn't charge him.

Edited February 17, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[JohnC]

 

LOL!

 

I agree the video hurts Shady and that Sir Roger shall smite him with suspension no matter what happens legally.

 

That's my point John. We haven't heard a peep from the general public, aside from the cell phone videos. Usually people are lining up to talk to Inside Edition or whoever. Weird, innit?

Stunningly so. Clearly many people witnessed the brawl but probably few people saw what precipitated it.

As long as McCoy's crew has a DFG (Designated Fall Guy), we're good.

When McCoy was asked if it was he who was in the tape he responded by saying no, that was my doppelganger. He was then asked if he knew what a doppelganger was. He said no but my attorney does. .

[Doc]

Probably because players would start figuring out how to get arrested so they can become free agents!. Would become a windfall for too many players!

 

The longer this drags out, the more likely this whole thing is on somewhat shaky ground IMO. Or they can't figure out how to come after McCoy & co without also making the cops look bad.

 

I doubt that committing a felony with the possibility of facing jail time is what players would want to do to get out of contracts.

 

Stunningly so. Clearly many people witnessed the brawl but probably few people saw what precipitated it.

 

Yup. Which would make the security footage so crucial.

[Mr. WEO]

 

So let me get this straight. One cop is getting pummeled by 4 guys, another gets a bottle to his face, and the 3rd guy feels awkward about calling for backup even though Shady and his boys intend to inflict "serious bodily injury" on his buds... and they have to wait and assess that a crime was committed? LOL! Well, it is the Keystone state.

 

And the video definitely hurts Shady. Even if he gets a misdemeanor or if the charges are somehow dropped, I can't see him escaping without a suspension from Sir Rog.

 

 

I don't know why they other guy didn't call other cops. Maybe they do have something to hide (carrying service weapons while drinking?). I'm not sure why it matters with regard to the fight itself, part of which we see and the results (documented injuries) are known.

[JohnC]

 

I doubt that committing a felony with the possibility of facing jail time is what players would want to do to get out of contracts.

 

 

Yup. Which would make the security footage so crucial.

Too much attention is given to the non-functioning security tape. Even if it was working it wouldn't necessarily give you as much useful information as many people are indicating. If the tape was working it could indicate who the participants were (which is already known) but it wouldn't necessarily tell you what precipitated the brawl and what was said between the parties before the fight. Security tapes are notoriously not clear/sharp and the location of the cameras could be such that they are too misaligned to the location of the event to give you a good rendering of the event.

 

Let's not forget there were phone camera footage that is very useful. It captured a portion of the fight, it showed people who were punching and stomping and it showed McCoy not only involved in the fight but also pulled away and then re-engaging. Those phone shots are much more valuable to determining what happened than most security cameras would. And make no mistake about it they are damning to McCoy and his crew.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Stunningly so. Clearly many people witnessed the brawl but probably few people saw what precipitated it.

When McCoy was asked if it was he who was in the tape he responded by saying no, that was my doppelganger. He was then asked if he knew what a doppelganger was. He said no but my attorney does. .

 

LOL! A former colleague and I used to refer to each other as "my evil twin..."

Isn't a "doppelganger" an Amish gang-banger?

[26CornerBlitz]

@viccarucci

Philadelphia DA spokesman: "We continue to investigate" nightclub brawl allegedly involving LeSean McCoy & "I don't expect anything today."

[Maury Ballstein]

@viccarucci

 

Philadelphia DA spokesman: "We continue to investigate" nightclub brawl allegedly involving LeSean McCoy & "I don't expect anything today."

 

Geez Louise.

 

 

They waiting for Weo's and truth on holds testimony ?

[YoloinOhio]

I am wondering if they are negotiating a pre-indictment deal of some kind.

perhaps the lawyers are explaining how they plan to expose the late night, clubbing shenanigans of Philly's law enforcement for everyone to see, and something will get "worked out"

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I was watching People vs OJ last night and thinking about how a case can look cut and dried but you get a bunch of pricey attorneys together and they will find any angle to show the prosecution that the case isn't going to be so easy to prove. I am sure they are diving into every last sordid detail of those cops. This also kind of what happened with Jameis Winston. They didn't think they could win because of what his lawyers dug up on the girl, and that she didn't remember clearly what happened because of the alcohol involved, so couldn't charge him.

 

People vs OJ? Seriously? Slow night? I think in this case, trouble tracking down witnesses and forensic collection of cell phone video may be problematic. And you're right, a pricey attorney with an unlimited research budget and a good courtroom manner can make a "cut and dried" case look far dicier than it really is.

 

Jameis Winston is a bad example since the investigators documentably did things to discourage prosecution and omitted to do many things that could have strengthened the case. I have never before heard "what his lawyers dug up on the girl" as a key factor in decision to not prosecute. I don't want to derail this thread into a Winston discussion.

 

However, it's historically been far more difficult to put a police officer's behavior on trial during an assault case where he was the victim, than it is to put an inebriated young woman's behavior on trial during a rape case where she was the victim (which has, historically, been so easy it's like shooting a duck in a bucket).

[YoloinOhio]

 

People vs OJ? Seriously? Slow night? I think in this case, trouble tracking down witnesses and forensic collection of cell phone video may be problematic. And you're right, a pricey attorney with an unlimited research budget and a good courtroom manner can make a "cut and dried" case look far dicier than it really is.

 

Jameis Winston is a bad example since the investigators documentably did things to discourage prosecution and omitted to do many things that could have strengthened the case. I have never before heard "what his lawyers dug up on the girl" as a key factor in decision to not prosecute. I don't want to derail this thread into a Winston discussion.

 

However, it's historically been far more difficult to put a police officer's behavior on trial during an assault case where he was the victim, than it is to put an inebriated young woman's behavior on trial during a rape case where she was the victim (which has, historically, been so easy it's like shooting a duck in a bucket).

i didn't follow the Winston case all that closely but Winston's lawyer talked about her being part of a group of girls who hung around the team all the time, there were smiling photos of her with him after the attack, etc ... He painted a picture of a girl who was not a "victim" - as a I recall. Just saying that lawyers will go after the other side to muddy the waters enough to cast doubt on the whole situation. Edited February 17, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[JoeF]

perhaps the lawyers are explaining how they plan to expose the late night, clubbing shenanigans of Philly's law enforcement for everyone to see, and something will get "worked out"

Let's see--three potentially drunk cops clubbing at 3 AM....hmmmm -- I agree Yolo...

 

The mayor and the head of the FOP really hurt this case with their idiotic statements...when the fact that three of Philly's finest were off duty clubbing at 3 AM is who they are defending...come the heck on...

[Mr. WEO]

perhaps the lawyers are explaining how they plan to expose the late night, clubbing shenanigans of Philly's law enforcement for everyone to see, and something will get "worked out"

 

Yes, late night clubbing by guys after work should be exposed..especially if they are cops.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Yes, late night clubbing by guys after work should be exposed..especially if they are cops.

 

Especially if they paid for lap dances.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Too much attention is given to the non-functioning security tape. Even if it was working it wouldn't necessarily give you as much useful information as many people are indicating. If the tape was working it could indicate who the participants were (which is already known) but it wouldn't necessarily tell you what precipitated the brawl and what was said between the parties before the fight. Security tapes are notoriously not clear/sharp and the location of the cameras could be such that they are too misaligned to the location of the event to give you a good rendering of the event.

 

Let's not forget there were phone camera footage that is very useful. It captured a portion of the fight, it showed people who were punching and stomping and it showed McCoy not only involved in the fight but also pulled away and then re-engaging. Those phone shots are much more valuable to determining what happened than most security cameras would. And make no mistake about it they are damning to McCoy and his crew.

 

You realize, John, that many of the caveats you apply to the security footage (wouldn't necessarily tell you what precipitated the brawl and what was said before the fight) apply in spades to cell phone video since most people pull out their phone, fumble about opening up the camera app, and point it at the ruckas long after it starts? They are also often not great quality.

 

Many a blurry and off-angle security camera tape has been used to successfully prosecute a case. When the case is important enough to digitally enhance the images, even better.

 

It's entirely possible that the cameras wouldn't have a good angle, but it wrecks of "sour grapes" since we've been told the tape doesn't exist. But if it DID exist, and showed that area of the club, it might show the initial physical events of the ruckus and that is important to establish the context. Which side that benefits more, depends upon what the tape would show

Just saying that lawyers will go after the other side to muddy the waters enough to cast doubt on the whole situation.

 

This is the key point.

 

Especially if they paid for lap dances.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't THINK Recess is THAT kind of club

[YoloinOhio]

 

You realize, John, that many of the caveats you apply to the security footage (wouldn't necessarily tell you what precipitated the brawl and what was said before the fight) apply in spades to cell phone video since most people pull out their phone, fumble about opening up the camera app, and point it at the ruckas long after it starts? They are also often not great quality.

 

Many a blurry and off-angle security camera tape has been used to successfully prosecute a case. When the case is important enough to digitally enhance the images, even better.

 

It's entirely possible that the cameras wouldn't have a good angle, but it wrecks of "sour grapes" since we've been told the tape doesn't exist. But if it DID exist, and showed that area of the club, it might show the initial physical events of the ruckus and that is important to establish the context. Which side that benefits more, depends upon what the tape would show

 

 

This is the key point.

 

 

I could be wrong, but I don't THINK Recess is THAT kind of club

i read that it is an "after hours hip hop club." Though we haven't seen anyone interviewed on the record who was there, there was someone who called into a Rochester radio show to say he knew someone who was there and that there were people "on the mic" (?) heckling McCoy all night Not that it means anything but there is one random voice from other side. Edited February 17, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[26CornerBlitz]

 

You realize, John, that many of the caveats you apply to the security footage (wouldn't necessarily tell you what precipitated the brawl and what was said before the fight) apply in spades to cell phone video since most people pull out their phone, fumble about opening up the camera app, and point it at the ruckas long after it starts? They are also often not great quality.

 

Many a blurry and off-angle security camera tape has been used to successfully prosecute a case. When the case is important enough to digitally enhance the images, even better.

 

It's entirely possible that the cameras wouldn't have a good angle, but it wrecks of "sour grapes" since we've been told the tape doesn't exist. But if it DID exist, and showed that area of the club, it might show the initial physical events of the ruckus and that is important to establish the context. Which side that benefits more, depends upon what the tape would show

 

This is the key point.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't THINK Recess is THAT kind of club

 

I don't know if it is or not, but that was not a post to be taken seriously.

[Doc]

I don't know why they other guy didn't call other cops. Maybe they do have something to hide (carrying service weapons while drinking?). I'm not sure why it matters with regard to the fight itself, part of which we see and the results (documented injuries) are known.

 

It matters because if 3 separate cops, 2 of whom were involved and one who was watching it all unfold, didn't think enough to call for backup immediately for what was later deemed an "aggravated assault," maybe it wasn't "aggravated assault."

[HamSandwhich]

 

Yes, late night clubbing by guys after work should be exposed..especially if they are cops.

If it's common practice for the officers to take a bottle from someone because they feel like they are rich enough that they wouldn't notice, then yes, it should be exposed.

[DC Greg]

 

It matters because if 3 separate cops, 2 of whom were involved and one who was watching it all unfold, didn't think enough to call for backup immediately for what was later deemed an "aggravated assault," maybe it wasn't "aggravated assault."

 

FREE SHADY!!!

[Doc]

FREE SHADY!!!

 

Again, this is about going from a felony to a misdemeanor.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I was watching People vs OJ last night and thinking about how a case can look cut and dried but you get a bunch of pricey attorneys together and they will find any angle to show the prosecution that the case isn't going to be so easy to prove. I am sure they are diving into every last sordid detail of those cops. This also kind of what happened with Jameis Winston. They didn't think they could win because of what his lawyers dug up on the girl, and that she didn't remember clearly what happened because of the alcohol involved, so couldn't charge him.

There is a big disconnect between how things seem like they should work and how they actually do work...

[KDS73]

If it's common practice for the officers to take a bottle from someone because they feel like they are rich enough that they wouldn't notice, then yes, it should be exposed.

 

Huh? Is this something that's being talked about by people close to the investigation? Or is it just more internet message board / radio caller rumor type stuff being started by people trying to paint the cops as the bad guys?

[SWATeam]

 

Huh? Is this something that's being talked about by people close to the investigation? Or is it just more internet message board / radio caller rumor type stuff being started by people trying to paint the cops as the bad guys?

Is anything not this at this point?

[YoloinOhio]

Florio must have been watching People vs OJ too

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/17/high-profile-injects-delay-into-lesean-mccoy-case/

[Mr. WEO]

 

It matters because if 3 separate cops, 2 of whom were involved and one who was watching it all unfold, didn't think enough to call for backup immediately for what was later deemed an "aggravated assault," maybe it wasn't "aggravated assault."

 

 

The definition of the charge doesn't depend on who called or didn't call the police, or when.

 

The DA will decide if it is aggravated assault based on the evidence he has. Again, it has nothing to do with the cops being called. It has much to do with what is in the video.

[JohnC]

 

You realize, John, that many of the caveats you apply to the security footage (wouldn't necessarily tell you what precipitated the brawl and what was said before the fight) apply in spades to cell phone video since most people pull out their phone, fumble about opening up the camera app, and point it at the ruckas long after it starts? They are also often not great quality.

 

Many a blurry and off-angle security camera tape has been used to successfully prosecute a case. When the case is important enough to digitally enhance the images, even better.

 

It's entirely possible that the cameras wouldn't have a good angle, but it wrecks of "sour grapes" since we've been told the tape doesn't exist. But if it DID exist, and showed that area of the club, it might show the initial physical events of the ruckus and that is important to establish the context. Which side that benefits more, depends upon what the tape would show

 

 

You work with what you got. If the taping system didn't work inside then there is nothing else that can be done. I'm confident the owners and the establishment would not be foolish enough to manipulate the system in order to favor one party over another. That in itself would be a chargeable offense.

 

If there was film footage including phone footage that doesn't mean that it would show the origin and context of the situation. It doesn't indicate what was initially said before the fight which could be very important. The phone footage that shows McCoy getting involved in the fracas and then be pulled back only to then re-engage is damaging to his case. At least that is how I see it.

 

This case is going to rely on victim statements, witness statements, medical statements, a receipt proving ownership of the disputed bottles and what can be gotten from the camera phones. Have McCoy and his crew given statements to the police? I don't know for sure but I doubt it. It's very likely that McCoy's attorney told him and the crew to say nothing. ,

 

I'm hoping there will be some legal action this week so that there is greater clarification on this chaotic scene. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle one is on this conflict it is better that the DA's office takes its time and be thorough. It realizes this is a high profile case and it knows that McCoy has a high quality attorney representing him.

 

There is another interesting issue arising from the McCoy group involvement assuming there is an indictment. Will McCoy's attorney also represent the others in his party? What if his attorney recommends that since he has so much at stake compared to his dependents he should seek a separate trial, if it comes to that. Can they afford competent representation? Will public defenders be used? Will McCoy pay for the attorneys of the others if he or they decide to separate their cases? Assuming this goes to trial the time period for a resolution of this case for McCoy will be extended if there are separate trials because the big fish is more likely to be last on the DA's trial list. You start with the minnows and then work your way up to the big fish.

 

My opinion almost from the start was that the charges were going to be aggravated assault against McCoy and the crew. Bu in the end after a cool down period my guess is that McCoy's attorney will work out a deal with the prosecutor.However, if any of the injuries turn out to be very serious and long lasting to permanent then the prosecutor's position will harden. Then the civil action will follow.

[Heitz]

Is anything not this at this point?

 

Haven't you read all 84 pages - clearly several members of SUV TBD have already determined Shady's guilt / innocence!

 

That's not Internet messageboard rumor type stuff, that's just good solid police speculation work! O_O

 

[reddogblitz]

This also kind of what happened with Jameis Winston. They didn't think they could win because of what his lawyers dug up on the girl, and that she didn't remember clearly what happened because of the alcohol involved, so couldn't charge him.

 

Well, that AND he can throw a football.

[JohnC]

 

It matters because if 3 separate cops, 2 of whom were involved and one who was watching it all unfold, didn't think enough to call for backup immediately for what was later deemed an "aggravated assault," maybe it wasn't "aggravated assault."

This is a WGRZ segment in which a Buffalo defense attorney speculating on this case brings up some of the same points that you are making.

 

http://www.wgrz.com/news/investigation-continues-into-philly-bar-fight/45214836

[3rdand12]

 

Haven't you read all 84 pages - clearly several members of SUV TBD have already determined Shady's guilt / innocence!

 

That's not Internet messageboard rumor type stuff, that's just good solid police speculation work! O_O

 

Its what we do

[Doc]

The definition of the charge doesn't depend on who called or didn't call the police, or when.

 

The DA will decide if it is aggravated assault based on the evidence he has. Again, it has nothing to do with the cops being called. It has much to do with what is in the video.

 

If the cops involved didn't think it was aggravated assault at the time, and you'd think they would know, the DA shouldn't either. That's the point, regardless of what the video (of them getting beaten) shows.

This is a WGRZ segment in which a Buffalo defense attorney speculating on this case brings up some of the same points that you are making.

 

http://www.wgrz.com/news/investigation-continues-into-philly-bar-fight/45214836

 

Thanks for that.

[Nanker]

If it's common practice for the officers to take a bottle from someone because they feel like they are rich enough that they wouldn't notice, then yes, it should be exposed.

#Champagne bottles matter!

[Heitz]

Its what we do

We hate our QBs.

 

We hate our coaches.

 

And we DEFINITELY investigate crimes better than any other NFL messageboard out there!

[3rdand12]

We hate our QBs.

 

We hate our coaches.

 

And we DEFINITELY investigate crimes better than any other NFL messageboard out there!

so we have all that trending upwards for us.

Sky is the limit for Bills fans!

Yes We Can!

[YoloinOhio]

Not sure if already posted but

 

@viccarucci

Philadelphia DA spokesman: "We continue to investigate" nightclub brawl allegedly involving LeSean McCoy & "I don't expect anything today."

[Doc]

Not sure if already posted but

 

@viccarucci

Philadelphia DA spokesman: "We continue to investigate" nightclub brawl allegedly involving LeSean McCoy & "I don't expect anything today."

 

26CB posted it this AM.

[Maury Ballstein]

We hate our QBs.

 

We hate our coaches.

 

And we DEFINITELY investigate crimes better than any other NFL messageboard out there!

Replace definetly with PAINFULLY !

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You work with what you got. If the taping system didn't work inside then there is nothing else that can be done. I'm confident the owners and the establishment would not be foolish enough to manipulate the system in order to favor one party over another. That in itself would be a chargeable offense.

 

Agreed, nothing can be done. My point is, it's a potentially important missing link. The fact that it doesn't exist can't be changed, but doesn't change its potential importance.

 

"confident the owners and the establishment would not be foolish...." "chargeable offense"

 

I would, perhaps share your confidence, had just that thing never been said to happen, from both sides of a story (*cough* Hernandez *cough*). In both those cases, those who did it were dumb and left obvious traces behind them. Cleverer people, well, who would know? It worked all the time for LIsbeth Salander LOL!

 

If the cops involved didn't think it was aggravated assault at the time, and you'd think they would know, the DA shouldn't either. That's the point, regardless of what the video (of them getting beaten) shows.

 

I'm a gonna stop posting 'cuz you use about 1/10th my words to make the same point. Yes, if I were a defense attorney, that is the point I would try to hammer home.

[JohnC]

 

 

 

I'm a gonna stop posting 'cuz you use about 1/10th my words to make the same point. Yes, if I were a defense attorney, that is the point I would try to hammer home.

This is the link that I provided Doc on the subject matter that he brought up.

 

http://www.wgrz.com/...-fight/45214836