Edit: now confirmed rumor that Bills will release Cassel

[Kelly the Dog]

Don't forget that he never really outshined the other two in practice either. If he's not a markedly better "thrower" than either TT or EJ, then why is he around? TT brings the dynamic playmaking ability with his legs, and EJ has the youth and high ceiling.

 

That said -- I agree with you with respect to how he likely views the situation.

Yeah that was really looking at him from his POV more than anything, although it's true nonetheless.

 

Another thing I think people are overlooking is the leadership angle. I think they thought that Cassell because of his experience could be good for the team and in the huddle. They probably heard about TT's leadership rep, which was great, but they didn't know until they saw it firsthand, and they knew about EJ and his problems with both confidence and experience and his WRs.

 

But what happened was, TT blew them away with his leadership,and command of the huddle and offense, which was at least as big a factor as his performance (one leads to the other). And EJ too, in the last few weeks, showed incredible mettle and leadership and renewed confidence. It made the whole QB competition look in a different light when these things became apparent and it lessens the need for Cassell.

[BobbyC81]

Again, I would think they put Cassel and EJ on trade wire and see what they can get. But right now who knows. Again, my thought is one (likely EJ) would get traded with other staying (maybe). I also think/thought both could be gone and a backup closer to TT's style would be brought in.

Thad Lewis?

[metzelaars_lives]

Ok so by that rationale do you keep EJ over Cassel cause you know what you have with Cassel?

Ideally I think they keep all three. If it really is a situation where they could re-sign another guy with the money they'd be saving then I'm all in for cutting him but why couldn't they just cut him after this season? It's not like if they re-signed Dareus now that his new contract would count against this year's cap? I have no idea how that stuff works to be honest.

Edited September 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[Direhard Fan]

And the beat goes on. It's all about the money. It can be better spent on Marcel, and company. Good bye Cassel. It's been nice knowing you. Why did we sign Simms? To keep him. He is just as steady as Cassel and a lot less expensive. Spade is a spade.

[eball]

Yeah that was really looking at him from his POV more than anything, although it's true nonetheless.

 

Another thing I think people are overlooking is the leadership angle. I think they thought that Cassell because of his experience could be good for the team and in the huddle. They probably heard about TT's leadership rep, which was great, but they didn't know until they saw it firsthand, and they knew about EJ and his problems with both confidence and experience and his WRs.

 

But what happened was, TT blew them away with his leadership,and command of the huddle and offense, which was at least as big a factor as his performance (one leads to the other). And EJ too, in the last few weeks, showed incredible mettle and leadership and renewed confidence. It made the whole QB competition look in a different light when these things became apparent and it lessens the need for Cassell.

 

I agree -- and even with his confidence problems it's pretty widely known that EJ is well-liked in the locker room.

 

Another factor why Cassel is now the odd man out -- with TT starting, the game plan doesn't really change if EJ has to come in because he can still do the read option things and has some mobility. That is huge from a game week preparatory standpoint with installation. Cassel can't run the same plays.

[metzelaars_lives]

Unless Metz gets a Gm job. No one wants Cassel. He's washed

Oh Ryan L Billz, you're always on top of your game, I'll tell ya. I think the majority of the people on this site would keep all three if they could. I have already said that I would probably move EJ up to #2 based on his performance in the preseason. Is it a slam dunk that if Cassel and Manuel each got to play 16 games with this Bills team this season that Manuel would put up better numbers and lead them to more wins? I'm not so sure quite yet. Manuel had a GREAT preseason game. Cassel was better throughout camp. I'm not ready to anoint EJ anything just yet. You went from being an EJ cheerleader to a Cassel basher. You're like the kid in middle school who is mean to other kids because he doesn't feel all that good about himself. Everybody knows what Cassel is. A guy like that could come in handy in a long NFL season. The Cardinals could've sure used him last year.

Edited September 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[Maury Ballstein]

If Tyrod is injured do we really want EJ as the QB of this team ?? This would be a financial decision not a football decision. EJ is just scary bad out there.

His ceiling ??? !!! We can walk on his ceiling. Slow twitch and inaccurate.... not much of a ceiling

 

Wow someones giving takes from 2014. How nice.

[ALLEN1QB]

I can see it happening.

[Maury Ballstein]

Oh Ryan L Billz, you're always on top of your game, I'll tell ya. I think the majority of the people on this site would keep all three if they could. I have already said that I would probably move EJ up to #2 based on his performance in the preseason. Is it a slam dunk that if Cassel and Manuel each got to play 16 games with this Bills team this season that Manuel would put up better numbers and lead them to more wins? I'm not so sure quite yet. Manuel had a GREAT preseason game. Cassel was better throughout camp. I'm not ready to anoint EJ anything just yet. You went from being an EJ cheerleader to a Cassel basher. You're like the kid in middle school who is mean to other kids because he doesn't feel all that good about himself. Everybody knows what Cassel is. A guy like that could come in handy in a long NFL season. The Cardinals could've sure used him last year.

I'm a man. I'm 40 !!

 

Your diagnosis is flawed. Love the emotion though. Sorry you and the rambling Ej bashers wasted all offseason with bashing.

 

REALISTS UNITE !!! Bwahahahaha. Middle school kids. Lol

Edited September 1, 2015 by Ryan L Billz

[Bill from NYC]

 

But what happened was, TT blew them away with his leadership,and command of the huddle and offense, which was at least as big a factor as his performance (one leads to the other). And EJ too, in the last few weeks, showed incredible mettle and leadership and renewed confidence. It made the whole QB competition look in a different light when these things became apparent and it lessens the need for Cassell.

A bit of a reach? He did look improved but incredible mettle and leadership? His TD pass to Clay was nice, but the man was 15 yards away from a defender. A play like this in a preseason game is good, but I don't view it as concrete evidence that EJ has completely turned his game around.

 

Is that what you think? Has he found is stride? If so perhaps he should start, no?

[metzelaars_lives]

I'm a man. I'm 40 !!

 

Your diagnosis is flawed. Love the emotion though.

What's flawed about what I said just there?

[....lybob]

does anyone think the Bills say something like Matt we were willing to give you 4.5mil to be a starting QB will you take 1.5 million to be a backup QB

[PromoTheRobot]

Care to explain to why Cassel only played FOUR SERIES?

 

Maybe there was a reason for it. Maybe the coaches new exactly what he was. An insurance blanket in case BOTH TT and EJM were horrible in all practices and PS games.

 

Both of the younger guys looked pretty damn good so far in 3 PS games. Matt is not needed, but his $4.5 Million are.

Because he was going to be the starter obviously. Just like Roethlisberger.

[dollars 2 donuts]

i won't believe this until I see more threads on this page with the same information with just slightly different thread titles.

This...made me laugh...quite a bit.

 

Thank you, Pooj.

[rsxfirefighter]

i have no idea. I like to post but not for that reason...

oh i know..just giving ya a hard time.

 

you post a lot of useful information that others just dont have the time to search out.

[metzelaars_lives]

I'm a man. I'm 40 !!

 

Your diagnosis is flawed. Love the emotion though. Sorry you and the rambling Ej bashers wasted all offseason with bashing.

 

REALISTS UNITE !!! Bwahahahaha. Middle school kids. Lol

What is unrealistic about what I wrote? Instead of your one sentence jabs with your patented "lol's" at the end, why don't engage me in an actual discussion and tell me one thing you disagree with in my last post. Come on, this should be interesting.

does anyone think the Bills say something like Matt we were willing to give you 4.5mil to be a starting QB will you take 1.5 million to be a backup QB

That's not a bad idea at all and I'm kinda surprised no one had mentioned it yet

[Kelly the Dog]

A bit of a reach? He did look improved but incredible mettle and leadership? His TD pass to Clay was nice, but the man was 15 yards away from a defender. A play like this in a preseason game is good, but I don't view it as concrete evidence that EJ has completely turned his game around.

 

Is that what you think? Has he found is stride? If so perhaps he should start, no?

What I was talking about with the mettle and the leadership was the last drive of the Cleveland game, combined with the Pitt game. Most of us, including me, thought his career is Buffalo was basically over. But that last drive showed tremendous mettle and leadership under those circumstances. He was all but left for dead and he got up and put together the best drive of his life, preseason or not. He threw five fantastic passes in one minute of time, including two of them on fourth and fourteen with about a minute to go. One of them was a TD and game winner. Then he had a pretty good practice and then he had a monster game against Pitt where again his career with the Bills was likely on the line.

 

Several players noted the difference in his confidence level and the way he was in the huddle. I think it saved his career with the Bills and I think it showed a ton of leadership that he just didn't have before.

 

And no, I don't think he should start, I think TT should, and I don't think he is ready to be given the keys to the car. But that doesn't mean he hasn't made huge strides in leadership in the last few weeks.

 

I also think that a great deal of accuracy problems and breakdown of mechanics that results in accuracy problems is simply being comfortable in the game and the offense and what you need to do. And EJ always looked pretty skittish and very often looked inaccurate. But he got godawful coaching in his first two years which hurt him and now he is getting great coaching. And it took awhile but he is finally looking comfortable and he knows the offense and he is just winging it for the first time in his pro career and it shows in his accuracy and his mechanics don't break down nearly as much and his confidence has skyrocketed and that all feeds off itself.

 

He may have had the light turned on. He may just be on a lucky streak. But he's clearly benefitting from being more comfortable and getting better coaching.

[Maury Ballstein]

What is unrealistic about what I wrote? Instead of your one sentence jabs with your patented "lol's" at the end, why don't engage me in an actual discussion and tell me one thing you disagree with in my last post. Come on, this should be interesting.

Not interesting.... Talking about me and the middle school kid that hates himself...

 

I assure you I don't hate myself fwiw.

 

You want a link to my Wikipedia page ? I'm sleeping with a 9.5 and I am self employed.

 

Calmer than you are dude. Not sure what you want to debate now.

 

Cassel sucks. Deal with it. We've had to deal with the same nonsense from you in regards to Manuel.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Ryan L Billz

[metzelaars_lives]

Not interesting.... Talking about me and the middle school kid that hates himself...

 

I assure you I don't hate myself fwiw.

 

You want a link to my Wikipedia page ? I'm sleeping with a 9.5 and I am self employed.

 

Calmer than you are dude. Not sure what you want to debate now.

What? What in the world does that have anything to do with what I wrote in my post about the Bills QB situation? And yes, I would love a link to your wiki page in the meantime. Not trying to get personal, just sincerely curious about your what prompted you to "bwahahahaha" my post.

[Doc]

Good post Doc. I agree with all of that with the exception of "Taylor was always the favorite." I think they all really didn't know what they had. They never had him in camp. His tape from preseason was promising. His tape from regular season was limited and misleading. I think they just did it and looked at it holistically. And it was the right thing to do although they somewhat lucked out. I think they got Cassell for exactly what you said and pretty much knew what they were going to get. And they both agreed we can live with this, especially because of later on when they got McCoy and Harvin. They hoped that TT could be all they imagined but I very much doubt they were banking on it and I think they were in a wait and see with EJ, too. Like most of us were.

 

It happened that TT was everything they hoped for, and EJ progressed recently enough to get them really excited.

 

But I think they didn't really have a favorite in mind, they just wanted TT and or EJ to shine but could always have Cassell to do enough in case neither of the other two panned out.

I believe that Taylor was the favorite because Ryan loved him and having the HC in your corner is a huge plus. And Cassel was a journeyman and EJ hadn't established himself.

[Maury Ballstein]

What? What in the world does that have anything to do with what I wrote in my post about the Bills QB situation? And yes, I would love a link to your wiki page in the meantime. Not trying to get personal, just sincerely curious about your what prompted you to "bwahahahaha" my post.

You said I hate myself. Presently I do not.

 

I do hate Cassels arm #opinions

[dollars 2 donuts]

Rex to Whaley: "I'm starting TT, not your guy EJ, and that's it!"

 

Whaley: (dejected) "Fine." (as he's walking away) "BTW, I'm cutting your boy Cassell ON FRIDAY!!!"

 

Roman: "WHA-WHA-WHAAATTT?!!!"

Edited September 1, 2015 by dollars 2 donuts

[metzelaars_lives]

You said I hate myself. Presently I do not.

 

I do hate Cassels arm #opinions

I said that your "well EJ didn't win the job so I'm going to instead turn to bashing Cassel to feel better about it" stance is middle school-esque. I did not mean to intimate that you hate yourself. So, what specifically do you disagree with in my post? I simply said that they should keep both of them. And where is the link to your wiki page?

[LeGOATski]

Poor Roman.

[Kelly the Dog]

I believe that Taylor was the favorite because Ryan loved him and having the HC in your corner is a huge plus. And Cassel was a journeyman and EJ hadn't established himself.

 

I understand and think Ryan wanted him, too. But he didn't know any better than anyone else if his belief was true or not. Favorite to me implies that if the decision on who was going to start was made before they got to camp, Ryan would have chosen TT and I don't think that was true. I think he would have chose Cassel. He wanted TT to win the job and thought he could but wasn't going to bet on it.

[DC Greg]

What I was talking about with the mettle and the leadership was the last drive of the Cleveland game, combined with the Pitt game. Most of us, including me, thought his career is Buffalo was basically over. But that last drive showed tremendous mettle and leadership under those circumstances. He was all but left for dead and he got up and put together the best drive of his life, preseason or not. He threw five fantastic passes in one minute of time, including two of them on fourth and fourteen with about a minute to go. One of them was a TD and game winner. Then he had a pretty good practice and then he had a monster game against Pitt where again his career with the Bills was likely on the line.

 

Several players noted the difference in his confidence level and the way he was in the huddle. I think it saved his career with the Bills and I think it showed a ton of leadership that he just didn't have before.

 

And no, I don't think he should start, I think TT should, and I don't think he is ready to be given the keys to the car. But that doesn't mean he hasn't made huge strides in leadership in the last few weeks.

 

I also think that a great deal of accuracy problems and breakdown of mechanics that results in accuracy problems is simply being comfortable in the game and the offense and what you need to do. And EJ always looked pretty skittish and very often looked inaccurate. But he got godawful coaching in his first two years which hurt him and now he is getting great coaching. And it took awhile but he is finally looking comfortable and he knows the offense and he is just winging it for the first time in his pro career and it shows in his accuracy and his mechanics don't break down nearly as much and his confidence has skyrocketed and that all feeds off itself.

 

He may have had the light turned on. He may just be on a lucky streak. But he's clearly benefitting from being more comfortable and getting better coaching.

 

This is a good post. I think this is an accurate take. Time will tell (if he gets in regular season action, which is very likely at some point) if we just saw a few more preseason flashes followed by regression. I think a lot of us are excited about TT and hopeful EJ is genuinely developing into a potential starter.

Edited September 1, 2015 by DC Greg

[Coach Tuesday]

Not interesting.... Talking about me and the middle school kid that hates himself...

 

I assure you I don't hate myself fwiw.

 

You want a link to my Wikipedia page ? I'm sleeping with a 9.5 and I am self employed.

 

Calmer than you are dude. Not sure what you want to debate now.

 

Cassel sucks. Deal with it. We've had to deal with the same nonsense from you in regards to Manuel.

 

LINK OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN DUDE

[1B4IDie]

I'd be shocked. We gave up a 5th and a 7th in a trade for him. Maybe a trade to get something, even a 7th back. But with no veteran on team, it just wouldn't make sense.

It makes a lot of sense.

 

You can't keep a Kick Return Specialist, Kick Off Specialist, 3 QBs, 7 WRs, 5 RBs.

 

You have to make some cuts. What does Cassel really bring to the table? He is a "caretaker" QB. That is important if you don't have a viable QB option. EJ and T-Mobile stepped up and passed the eye ball test in PreSeason. A caretaker QB isn't necessary at this point in time on a roster that is going to cut players that will be playing on other team's 53 after cutdown.

Edited September 1, 2015 by 1B4IDie

[Big Turk]

I really wouldn't be surprised. They'd save $4M in cap space. EJ looked good in Pre-season.

Would releasing Cassel give them carry over cap room for next year if they don't use it this year? Thinking about the contracts coming up especially Dareus

[Maury Ballstein]

I said that your "well EJ didn't win the job so I'm going to instead turn to bashing Cassel to feel better about it" stance is middle school-esque. I did not mean to intimate that you hate yourself. So, what specifically do you disagree with in my post? I simply said that they should keep both of them. And where is the link to your wiki page?

I bash Cassel as I have watched him play and think he really brings nothing to the table personally.

 

I'm an ABC guy not an EJ lover fwiw. I'm fine w Tyrod.

[DC Greg]

 

LINK OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN DUDE

 

You just won the internet today

[metzelaars_lives]

I bash Cassel as I have watched him play and think he really brings nothing to the table personally.

 

I'm an ABC guy not an EJ lover fwiw. I'm fine w Tyrod.

OK so you feel that they should wing it with the two young guys and I think it wouldn't hurt keeping Cassel around even if he's just a #3. Is that worthy of "bwahahahahaha'ing" me, telling me that I'm not a realist and that my logic is flawed?

Edited September 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[Kelly the Dog]

It makes a lot of sense.

 

You can't keep a Kick Return Specialist, Kick Off Specialist, 3 QBs, 7 WRs, 5 RBs.

 

You have to make some cuts. What does Cassel really bring to the table? He is a "caretaker" QB. That is important if you don't have a viable QB option. EJ and T-Mobile stepped up and passed the eye ball test in PreSeason. A caretaker QB isn't necessary at this point in time on a roster that is going to cut players that will be playing on other team's 53 after cutdown.

 

Yep. Although it's really a matter of what they think of EJ more than Cassell. If they think EJ is ready to be a viable backup in this league and a starter for the rest of an important season should an unknown running QB get hurt, they cut Cassell. If they are unconvinced, they have to keep him. It doesn't really matter what they think of Cassell, we know what they think of Cassell.

[metzelaars_lives]

Yep. Although it's really a matter of what they think of EJ more than Cassell. If they think EJ is ready to be a viable backup in this league and a starter for the rest of an important season should an unknown running QB get hurt, they cut Cassell. If they are unconvinced, they have to keep him. It doesn't really matter what they think of Cassell, we know what they think of Cassell.

Perfectly stated. That's it.

[LeGOATski]

This thread is getting better and better.

[DC Greg]

Yep. Although it's really a matter of what they think of EJ more than Cassell. If they think EJ is ready to be a viable backup in this league and a starter for the rest of an important season should an unknown running QB get hurt, they cut Cassell. If they are unconvinced, they have to keep him. It doesn't really matter what they think of Cassell, we know what they think of Cassell.

 

With a running QB like Tyrod though, doesn't the injury concern have to cause some pause here? Is another tight end, even one who is a ST contributor, more valuable than that insurance? Not leading questions, just asking.

 

If Tyrod went down and we had EJ, who has injury history, and Simms backing him up, that's concerning.

[Maury Ballstein]

 

LINK OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN DUDE

Get on my level.

[Doc]

I understand and think Ryan wanted him, too. But he didn't know any better than anyone else if his belief was true or not. Favorite to me implies that if the decision on who was going to start was made before they got to camp, Ryan would have chosen TT and I don't think that was true. I think he would have chose Cassel. He wanted TT to win the job and thought he could but wasn't going to bet on it.

 

You don't have to know if someone/something is good to like it. You just have to believe he/she/it can be good. I think it's safe to say that TT was Ryan's favorite all along but that he still needed TT to prove it on the field.

[Luxy312]

Rex just said that the odds were stacked against Simms making the roster. That, coupled with the prior comments about keeping 3 QBs, tells me that they appear to be keeping all 3. Time will tell of course and we'll know in a couple of days. Just thought I would throw that out there.

[Smiley Dear]

i would like for them to keep Cassel. 3 unproven youngsters makes me nervous. i have high hopes but they weren't up against the complex schemes in the preseason that they will see in the regular season. would be nice to have that safety blanket just in case, just like last year with Orton

Orton was part of the problem last year. Benching EJ probably retarded his development and I don't think the won any more games because of it. Cassel is a marginal back up at best and would not help this team win. I'm sure of it.