Mr. WEO Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Well, true, but it also cuts the other way - it suggests they're at least trying... James Harrison has soemthing to say about trying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 James Harrison has soemthing to say about trying... "There is no try, only do" -JP Losman and Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 You EJ detractors use words like "regression", " mutiny" and "accuracy" but these are your words. No coach or real profeesional football talent evaluator has used those words. He has 2 seasons under his belt. How can you claim he's regressed? That's just a made up phrase to propel what many of you really mean, which was that you simply didn't like the pick. He's fine, he hasn't regressed, why are we blaming the FO for drafting him. Who else should they have taken. What franchise QB's are there for the Bills. What tree are franchise QB's falling from? There been no one! What vetern QB's have been available to man the ship while the prospect develops and learns the intricacies of the position. Kolb, Orton, and now, Cassel. That's who. That's the best that has been available to us. So many of you guys are "blaming" Whaley for not making the playoffs with these guys. "Blaming" EJ for not leading us to playoffs yet. C'mon men, get your heads screwed on straight. Quit arguing just to argue, and give up the position you took 2 1\2 years ago, because this is not 2013, let EJ sit behind Cassel and Tyrod, if that's how it's gonna be, and when we do get the chance to see him play, evaluate him on what he does now, not what you didn't like about a pick from a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 So you'd have rather picked a QB likely to not see the field this year over John Miller, our starting RG? I would say yes. QBs will take time to develop and especially ones selected in the middle rounds. But you have to start at some time. Unless we are sure we have landed on 'the one', there should not be an aversion to selecting a promising QB. Your question can be asked at pretty much any point in the draft. There will always be players (and positions) which are easier for a rookie to excel at in his rookie year. But if a QB starved team like the Bills were to keep thinking like that, they will hardly ever select a QB unless they back themselves into a corner as they were when they selected EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I would say yes. QBs will take time to develop Except EJ, he sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I would say yes. QBs will take time to develop and especially ones selected in the middle rounds. But you have to start at some time. Unless we are sure we have landed on 'the one', there should not be an aversion to selecting a promising QB. Your question can be asked at pretty much any point in the draft. There will always be players (and positions) which are easier for a rookie to excel at in his rookie year. But if a QB starved team like the Bills were to keep thinking like that, they will hardly ever select a QB unless they back themselves into a corner as they were when they selected EJ. :shrug: I'll agree to disagree here. I do believe there are times where it would have been a good idea to take a QB over what we did, but our 2015 3rd round pick was the correct choice for our situation at the time IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I would say yes. QBs will take time to develop and especially ones selected in the middle rounds. But you have to start at some time. Unless we are sure we have landed on 'the one', there should not be an aversion to selecting a promising QB. Your question can be asked at pretty much any point in the draft. There will always be players (and positions) which are easier for a rookie to excel at in his rookie year. But if a QB starved team like the Bills were to keep thinking like that, they will hardly ever select a QB unless they back themselves into a corner as they were when they selected EJ. Why wouldn't u have the John Miller pick and let EJ develop like he was intended to do? You EJ detractors use words like "regression", " mutiny" and "accuracy" but these are your words. No coach or real profeesional football talent evaluator has used those words. He has 2 seasons under his belt. How can you claim he's regressed? That's just a made up phrase to propel what many of you really mean, which was that you simply didn't like the pick. He's fine, he hasn't regressed, why are we blaming the FO for drafting him. Who else should they have taken. What franchise QB's are there for the Bills. What tree are franchise QB's falling from? There been no one! What vetern QB's have been available to man the ship while the prospect develops and learns the intricacies of the position. Kolb, Orton, and now, Cassel. That's who. That's the best that has been available to us. So many of you guys are "blaming" Whaley for not making the playoffs with these guys. "Blaming" EJ for not leading us to playoffs yet. C'mon men, get your heads screwed on straight. Quit arguing just to argue, and give up the position you took 2 1\2 years ago, because this is not 2013, let EJ sit behind Cassel and Tyrod, if that's how it's gonna be, and when we do get the chance to see him play, evaluate him on what he does now, not what you didn't like about a pick from a few years ago. BRAVO!! ENCORE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 BRAVO!! ENCORE!! Oh I have plenty more, its just so pointless to argue with these cement heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 You EJ detractors use words like "regression", " mutiny" and "accuracy" but these are your words. No coach or real profeesional football talent evaluator has used those words. He has 2 seasons under his belt. How can you claim he's regressed? That's just a made up phrase to propel what many of you really mean, which was that you simply didn't like the pick. He's fine, he hasn't regressed, why are we blaming the FO for drafting him. Who else should they have taken. What franchise QB's are there for the Bills. What tree are franchise QB's falling from? There been no one! What vetern QB's have been available to man the ship while the prospect develops and learns the intricacies of the position. Kolb, Orton, and now, Cassel. That's who. That's the best that has been available to us. So many of you guys are "blaming" Whaley for not making the playoffs with these guys. "Blaming" EJ for not leading us to playoffs yet. C'mon men, get your heads screwed on straight. Quit arguing just to argue, and give up the position you took 2 1\2 years ago, because this is not 2013, let EJ sit behind Cassel and Tyrod, if that's how it's gonna be, and when we do get the chance to see him play, evaluate him on what he does now, not what you didn't like about a pick from a few years ago. Is EJ Manuel better than he was in 2013? Is he worse? Is he the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Is EJ Manuel better than he was in 2013? Is he worse? Is he the same?Now you know darn well none of us have seen him enough to answer that. We all saw the gorgeous pass he threw so we know he's capable of that. That was a "how you gonna cut me" kinda throw. Edited August 20, 2015 by mastershake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Now you know darn well none of us have seen him enough to answer that. We all saw the gorgeous pass he threw so we know he's capable of that. That was a "how you gonna cut me" kinda throw. What. You can't answer if he's better than when he was first drafted. And you don't think that's an issue? Hahahahah. Edited August 20, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Now you know darn well none of us have seen him enough to answer that. We all saw the gorgeous pass he threw so we know he's capable of that. That was a "how you gonna cut me" kinda throw. 3rd year in the league and you can't answer that, talk about cement heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 What. You can't answer if he's better than when he was first drafted. And you don't think that's an issue? Hahahahah. Alright, I think we're done here, Ive read enough of your anti EJ arguements to have realized that your posting has regressed. 3rd year in the league and you can't answer that, talk about cement heads. And old school, come up with something good and get back to me, I'll be here all season, OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I like the fact that there seems to be a semi-intelligent EJ discussion brewing on this thread without the name calling, etc. I would disagree with you however. I think a lot of people have this "we know what we have in Cassel so there's no point in starting him whatsoever- may as well let EJ start because he has a higher ceiling" attitude. Well for one, EJ may never hit the ceiling that Cassel has hit as a pro. My guess is he won't. And two, people say this while seemingly dismissing the fact that as we bicker on this board, the three of these guys are competing right now man vs. man and I'm sorry, bad coaching or not, third year in the league you better be able to beat out Matt Cassel for the starting job. Win the job. That's it. I agree with all the last three things you said: he has had a better camp than last year (I would hope so), he needs to improve more and I don't think any of even the staunch anti-EJ folks have said he "definitely" can't/won't improve. I just find it unlikely. Look, the Bills are going to start whoever gives them the best chance to win RIGHT NOW. The EJ people need to give up this idea that the organization should/will give him this leash to develop even if he's not producing. It's not 2013 anymore. There is the metz we like. Even though we have disagreed I think this is your best post on the subject. Even if it came 2 days after you said you were swearing off posting about him until September 13th As for the first bolded comment: Cassel's ceiling in this league was reached 5 years ago. To me he is on the decline. If it is CLOSE I would prefer EJ/Tyrod to Cassel. I am in the anyone but Cassel camp more due to the fact that him winning means the season will not go will imo, him winning means the young "potential" guys didn't show as well as a league scrub, him winning puts us in the need a qb sooner rather than later and another year of our defense was wasted. If he wins I will root like hell for him and have said as much multiple times. I just hope it isn't him. To the second bolded: Amen. If he is to be any good he should be beating out Matt Cassel. Cassel showed much better than expected in game 1. All 3 of them did. I am hopeful for EJ and hopeful that he does indeed beat out Cassel because well Cassel sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Alright, I think we're done here, Ive read enough of your anti EJ arguements to have realized that your posting has regressed. And old school, come up with something good and get back to me, I'll be here all season, OK? Your argument is that because no coach has come out and said EJ has regressed, he hasn't. Is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Is EJ Manuel better than he was in 2013? Is he worse? Is he the same? That's really a question for his coaches. Based on my eye test in the limited chances I get to see him, I'd say yes. I know his teammates think he's gotten better. Sammy, Fred, Woods all speak of the difference in his play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 See, it's training camp here too - we're sick of arguing with each other every day and fights are breaking out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 See, it's training camp here too - we're sick of arguing with each other every day and fights are breaking out... And guys keep pulling their hammies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 3rd year in the league and you can't answer that, talk about cement heads. Former first round pick Jerry Hughes did zippo in his first three full years in the NFL... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HughJe99.htm 2 years and 14 games is simply not enough of a body of work to go by with a QB like Manuel who by all accounts would be a QB who would need time to develop. Odds are you are probably right to give up on him, but even if there is a 5% chance that Manuel is going to become a franchise QB, that is a lottery ticket that's well worth holding onto especially given that Manuel would be considered a great backup QB compared to the rest of the league's backups. BTW, there's still 3 preseason games left. This story can change real quick if Manuel plays great in expended playing time tonight and the other two QBs look shaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 When did the comparisons to Peyton's rookie year end? I miss those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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