Eagles released Evan Mathis

[Buffalo Barbarian]

My money is on Mathis signing with San Francisco, which is in dire need of OL help after losing Iupati and the sudden retirement of Davis.

 

I would have to not get a contract from EVERYBODY ELSE before I signed with that trainwreck

https://twitter.com/john_wawrow/status/609456278419714048

 

From JW:

 

 

hopefully they can get him later at a lower price

[North Buffalo]

Teams never wins championships because they have the best O-line. The teams that have drafted OL high without a good QB still don't get much better.

Really? Redskins won 2 superbowls without a legit QB, but outstanding o-line, Ravens won 1 with oline and D and who is Trent Dilfer.... Who also won at TB under same scenario. Heck, the boys kicked Bills butts because of oline in SB.... So to say the least, I disagree... Edited June 13, 2015 by North Buffalo

[mikemac2001]

Pats have been able to run on teams for years while giving Brady a huge pocket with any pressure he drops

 

But idk I guess if u know the d ahead of time it's easier to block or throw a dump off

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

I say drop Chris Williams and Urbik, if we have to and go after Mathis and Spikes. Let's go all out for the Bowl! Spend every dime if we have to.

[thebandit27]

 

Really? Redskins won 2 superbowls without a legit QB, but outstanding o-line, Ravens won 1 with oline and D and who is Trent Dilfer.... Who also won at TB under same scenario. Heck, the boys kicked Bills butts because of oline in SB.... So to say the least, I disagree...

Sorry, but I don't think those examples really hold water. Maybe the Redskins of 20 years ago, but Baltimore and TB (who won with Brad Johnson, not Dilfer) won with defenses that dominated.

 

Dallas had Troy Aikman, who is a HOFer.

Pats have been able to run on teams for years while giving Brady a huge pocket with any pressure he drops

 

But idk I guess if u know the d ahead of time it's easier to block or throw a dump off

NE*s run blocking has been very good; their former OL coach--Dante Scarnecchia--was an excellent teacher in that regard. Their pass protection has never been great; Brady makes a lot of space for himself with his pocket presence and ability to keep his feet moving and climb to safety

Edited June 13, 2015 by thebandit27

[KDIGGZ]

I say drop Chris Williams and Urbik, if we have to and go after Mathis and Spikes. Let's go all out for the Bowl! Spend every dime if we have to.

They won't drop Urbik because he's the backup Center too and the beat reporters have already said they have no interest in Spikes and they won't be pursuing Mathis

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

They won't drop Urbik because he's the backup Center too and the beat reporters have already said they have no interest in Spikes and they won't be pursuing Mathis

 

I hadn't heard that they wouldn't pursue Mathis. But I agree about Urbik.

Edited June 13, 2015 by WhitewalkerInPhilly

[CardinalScotts]

always be leary of the guy playing next to the pro bowl player

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Pats have been able to run on teams for years while giving Brady a huge pocket with any pressure he drops

 

This is true. The interesting thing is that they've been able to do so with a relatively no-name OL.

NE*s run blocking has been very good; their former OL coach--Dante Scarnecchia--was an excellent teacher in that regard. Their pass protection has never been great; Brady makes a lot of space for himself with his pocket presence and ability to keep his feet moving and climb to safety

 

NE pass protection has been good. Brady does have pocket presence, but he's not a mobile/teflon kind of guy like Rodgers or Brees. Part of their formula for success has been the quick 4-5 yd pass over the middle to Welker (now to Edelman) or to Gronk, that turns into a gain of 8-9 yds. Historically, Brady only gets between 48-51% of his yards through the air; the rest is YAC

Edited June 13, 2015 by Hopeful

[atlbillsfan1975]

Glad to hear the Bills are passing. IMHO it backs up more what we have been hearing from the staff, they like what they have. Yes money came into play. I also really believe we are going to be pleasantly surprised by a new staff with a new scheme and some players having a year to develope.

 

I predict Mathis to the Falcons.

[Reed83HOF]

We're at the point where the OL is somehow responsible for no Bills' QB since Kelly being good enough (despite Bledsoe breaking Kelly's single season yards and TD record in 2002).

 

I think Mathis is good and would be thrilled to get him; it wouldn't come within 1,000 figurative miles of bringing in an even mediocre starting QB.

 

Good QBs figure out a way to get it done...

 

Personally I will never understand drafting an OL in the top 10-15 in the draft. Yes OL is important, but good QBs use their feet to make space within the pocket, keep their eyes down the field and make plays....

Edited June 13, 2015 by Reed83HOF

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Don't think you can drop a player that is still injured. You can have an injury settlement, but don't think you can do that either until the player is cleared for play. And with injury settlements, I'd think the player kind of has the upper hand in agreeing to the settlement terms as otherwise he's still under contract.

 

 

I say drop Chris Williams and Urbik, if we have to and go after Mathis and Spikes. Let's go all out for the Bowl! Spend every dime if we have to.

[OCinBuffalo]

This is exactly what McCoy meant when he called Kelly a racist. He was talking about top players who spoke their mind. At that point it was only black players that had been gotten rid of, and like it or not, a black guy (with good reason because of history although it may not be true) will perceive that as black entering into the equation. That whitey in power doesn't like anyone usurping or questioning or equaling that power and whitey ESPECIALLY does not like when it is a black guy.

 

McCoy was right then and he is right now. It's just not as much a black thing as he perceived it. Kelly doesn't like strong willed and loud mouthed players on his team.

This entire post needs a rewrite. I get what you are trying to say, maybe, but, I don't get how "with good reason because of history" and "although it may not be true" belongs in the same phrase, in any post, about any topic, anywhere on this board. These things are mutually exclusive. Something cannot be both true for good reason, because: history, and, false, at the same time, because...what...reason(other than "here is where I cover my ass")? Your last sentence would have sufficed as the entire post. Instead, you feel the need to contort this into a race issue initially, but then contort back, with that last sentence? Why did you bother to write anything else besdies your last sentence?

 

Question:

What are all these contortions?

Answer:

1. Trying to be "on record" as both accepting and defying reality at the same time, so you can make the race charge you need to make

2. Carrying the brackish PC water, again

3. Inserting race into discussion for no good reason, but, covering your ass so that you don't get Duke Lacrossed.

 

This post is hysterical, because it illustrates in technicolor exactly how much absurdity people like you willl post in avoidance of reality: To the point of contradicting themselves in the same phrase, never mind sentence. Perhaps with all your contortions here, an audition for the circus is in order?

I keep reading this. He is a FA. He has no contract the Bills inherit. Structured properly, the Bills could afford him this year, and perhaps moving forward. Great teams (and GMs) make contacts like this happen.

Yep.

Well, that he publicly spoke out against his coach this week is slightly different than just holding out.

 

Additionally that a team didn't want to give him the deal AND picks to the Eagles doesn't mean a team won't give a monster deal. See Byrd, j.

 

Otherwise, sure, that he and his agent think he's worth 6m per year totally isn't worth mentioning in reply to someone saying get him for less than 4m

All irrelevant, especially when we are talking Rosenhaus. Mathis lost, but Rosenhaus lost bigger. He's the guy doing the advising here, and he got his client released rather than extended or traded. Now, his client has to take whatever he is given by the other 31 teams, and ALL of them have an axe to grind with Roesnhaus. It is possible somebody steps ahead oif the pack and offers Mathis more than he was making? Sure. Is it likely? No.

 

This is the risk every player takes when they hold out. If the team cuts them, they automatically become damaged goods, whether true or not, BECAUSE they held out. Doubly so when they publicy talk schit about the coach that released them afterwards. Think: which of the 31 teams ISN"t going to be saying to themselves: "Hey if this is how the guy behaves during this, what's to say he doesn't do the same thing here? How do I know I'm not putting a cancer on my team, and over-paying for it?"

 

 

Yep. Not gonna write a story on it, so just going to report it on Twitter, but my sourcing is AP-worthy.

 

jw

Edited June 13, 2015 by OCinBuffalo

[Bob Malooga]

He was the 2nd rated OG according to profootballfocus.com.......rated only behind Marshal Yanda. He's old, but he'd be a major upgrade for us this season and maybe the next.

 

He's looking for big money though and the Bills are up against the cap as it is. With a bunch of their own guys up in FA next year I'm not sure the Bills have the cap space to squeeze Evan Mathis in. Couple that with he way the staff has been raving about John Miller and I just don't see it happening. Would be a major upgrade though.

In a completely different scheme.

 

Glad they aren't wasting the money on him. He's a finesse blocker, who has been good in a zone-blocking scheme.

 

Not at all a match for the Bills and what they are trying to do.

[3rdand12]

 

Good QBs figure out a way to get it done...

 

Personally I will never understand drafting an OL in the top 10-15 in the draft. Yes OL is important, but good QBs use their feet to make space within the pocket, keep their eyes down the field and make plays....

and if you cant have That QB? Might as well upgrade somewhere else. Like helping the run game and offering better protection and more time for the mediocre QB to see the field?

[Reed83HOF]

and if you cant have That QB? Might as well upgrade somewhere else. Like helping the run game and offering better protection and more time for the mediocre QB to see the field?

 

In our case, you spend it on your DL...

 

By all means that is what we need to do right now...

[3rdand12]

 

In our case, you spend it on your DL...

 

By all means that is what we need to do right now...

get the Mr Big Stuff deal done. thats for sure

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Don't think you can drop a player that is still injured. You can have an injury settlement, but don't think you can do that either until the player is cleared for play. And with injury settlements, I'd think the player kind of has the upper hand in agreeing to the settlement terms as otherwise he's still under contract.

 

You can waive/injured a player who is still injured. If they clear waivers, they can either go back on IR or take an injury settlement. The terms of the injury settlement involve negotiating how long the injury would take to heal (ie how many weeks will you pay the player). That's if the player is injured during training camp or preseason.

 

If a player is still injured the following season, frankly, I'm not sure. It seems to get into all sorts of stuff - did he have surgery? Was it surgery the team's physicians recommended? Or did he have surgery against their recommendations? Did he have the surgery when they recommended? Weeks or months later? Did he follow some program the club considers "reasonable rehab"? And last, is the pro-rated signing bonus considered guaranteed money (which is subtracted from any injury protection benefit)?

 

Here's one explanation: "The Injury Protection Benefit is a benefit available to a player if he meets the following criteria: (1) Suffers an injury in an NFL game or practice which causes him to be unable to play in all or part of the last game of the season of injury, or, which results in club-authorized offseason surgery; (2) Undergoes reasonable and customary club-required rehabilitation in the offseason following the injury; and (3) Fails the club’s preseason physical for the season following the injury and his contract is terminated.....During the first year after the year of injury, a player is guaranteed 50 percent of his salary, up to $1 million, if a contract is in place for that year. The previous maximum was $300,000. The injury protection benefit was also expanded, and a player is now guaranteed 30 percent of his salary, up to $500,000, in the second year after the injury if he has a contract in place for that year."

 

So if Williams fails his physical and is cut, the Bills owe him either an additional $150,000 (in addition to the pro-rated $850,000 guaranteed money of the signing bonus), an additional $1M (if the signing bonus doesn't count as guaranteed money subtracted from the injury protection) or nothing (if the surgery he had was not authorized by the club and he didn't follow club-required rehab).

 

I'm so confused. But in any case, there's not a lot of negotiation for the player here, but it is clear that it serves no purpose for the club to be trigger-happy in cutting the player, because if they do and he meets the terms for the injury protection benefit, they owe him.

[thewildrabbit]

 

 

Structured properly, the Bills could afford him this year, and perhaps moving forward. Great teams (and GMs) make contacts like this happen.

uh, well...

 

 

Someone brought up the name Drew Bledsoe who the Bills obtained from division rival NE Patriots in 2002, and in his first year in Buffalo went on to have a career year with 4,359 yards, 24 TD's along with his 4th trip to the pro bowl.

The Bills went from 3-13 before Bledsoe to 8-8 while #11 in offense in 2002.

 

Bledsoe did have a rep that if you hit him hard early in the game you could disrupt him enough that he could never get into a solid rhythm, and after that he would get "happy feet", and hear phantom sackers. BUT! If you couldn't get a solid hit on him early, and he was able to get into a solid rhythm he would tear that opposing team a new one.

 

In 2002 the team drafted OT Mike D Williams out of Texas with the #4 overall pick to be the new LT, and were sorely disappointed as the best he could do was RT for four seasons. At that same draft the Vikings drafted OT Bryant McKinnie with the #7th pick who went on to become a pro bowler, and started every game at LT from 2003 to 2007. Simply bad scouting, and a bad pick?

 

The point being the Bills already had some decent players on the line with all pro OG Ruben Brown, and wanted to further build a better line for Bledsoe under GM Tom Donahoe. Because of that sole bad draft pick the Bills basically stopped trying to build the line, and Bledsoe degraded further.

 

Then in 2003 they went 6-10 while having the 30th ranked offense with Bledsoe having a bad year 11TD's vs 17 INT's. If go back and look at the starts of the O line players that 2003 season only one of the five lineman played a full 16 games. Anyway HC Greg Williams was fired after that 2003 season and the team hired Mike Mularkey.

 

Now Mike & Tom decided that instead of building a better line for Bledsoe so he wouldn't get hit they wanted an old dog to learn new tricks, as they asked him to have a counter in his head to get the ball out within 4 seconds to either complete a pass or throw it away. That seemed to work somewhat because the team went 9-7 in 2004, and if the Bills beat the Steelers in the last regular season game they make the playoffs that year!

 

Regardless the team moved on from Bledsoe in 2005 after drafting JP Losman the year previous, and then went 5-11 with Losman and Kelly Holcomb at QB.

 

I would have to think that if the Bills had drafted McKinnie instead of Williams in 2002 the Bills probably make the playoffs with him at QB, and a different history is written. Dunno why the team gave up on finding a better LT back then.

But they did, and it cost them wins IMO. Bledsoe went to the Cowboys after 2004 and went on to another 9-7 season under Parcells.

 

You know what tho? Even after having a QB with a 4000 yard passing season and taking the Bills to a 9-7 season Bledsoe still earned the title " he sucks"!

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. anyone who thinks that building a top O line isn't important these days needs to take a long look at the Cowboys as they used three of the last four first round picks on the O line the last few years. Last season they had the #1 ranked O line in the league with 476 attempts passing vs 508 attempts rushing / 2354 yards rushing. From 8-8 to 12-4 with the same QB, coaches and a 19th ranked defense.

[thebandit27]

The streets are littered with former QB hopefuls that could've been good had they had 4 and 5 seconds to throw the ball consistently.

 

That's not reality in the NFL. Not for Dallas, not for Tom Brady, not for Aaron Rodgers, etc.

 

If that's what it takes for your QB to be successful, you're done for.

 

None of that means that the Bills shouldn't pursue Mathis; it means that expecting them so win by adding quality guards without finding a QB is, IMO, unreasonable.