Lurker Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 There are always leaks. What's your point? Exactly. Name an organiztion that doesn't leak. It's human nature... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 put him on the commissioners exempt list indefinitely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) this is a great point, but (being a conspiracy theorist) it makes me wonder: has the league, since then, paid hargrove an excessive amount of money to keep silent? because if I was hargrove, and brady got anything less than a year, i would sue the league into oblivion for all maters of lost wages, lost endorsements, defamation of character, racism(?), etc. etc. etc. it doesnt matter if theyre part of a players union... there is not a court in the world that would throw that case out. hargrove WOULD win, so the only reason hes not pursuing litigation in this case would have to be because of a payoff... right? I checked and I guess Hargrove got 8 games, which was eventually reduced to 2. The other players were reduced too on appeal. However, it ended up being a full year out of football for Hargrove who had trouble catching onto a team because of this situation. He is quoted as saying the whole thing "took away my earning power." Ended up out of football for a full year and eventually out of football. So one could say Bountygate sped up the end of his career significantly, all because it was supposedly his voice on a tape (which he denied) and Goodell felt he was lying. As for why he's not pursuing litigation, you may be right. He does have grounds, as the evidence of his voice being the one on tape was hardly conclusive. But Goodell felt the preponderance of evidence had been met. It's easy to say oh Hargrove got 8 and reduced to 2, but it was way worse. He became blacklisted almost, had trouble catching onto a squad, not really given a fair shake, and essentially lost his career. I'd be livid if I were him and Brady gets less than 8 pre-appeal. But like others have said, what does he have to appeal? Hargrove at least had some ground to stand on with asking Goodell how he proved it was his voice on the tape. Edited May 8, 2015 by ko12010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 The NFL would look way worse if they suspended him, it was appealed, and they reversed the suspension to no games than they would if they didnt suspend him at all. That ain't gonna happen IMO. right. and this line of thinking is asinine anyways. to "appeal" the suspension, you would need either *contradictory evidence: which in this case, literally the ONLY thing that could contradict the wells report that the pats/brady could have would be bradys texts, which he didnt turn over in the first place, so if they could exhonerate him, why wouldnt he have turned them over anyways? and/or * precedent that had been set but not recognized, which, in this case, the precedent seems to be season long suspensions (hargrove, payton), so if he got 8, there is no precedent he could really appeal on... definitely not 4 or 2 game suspension. SO, with that taken into account. If the league hit him with 8 he would have nothing to appeal. if it hit him with 16, MAYBE he could appeal to 8. but the thought that he can just magically "appeal" a 4 game suspension down to 2 is ridiculous. any appeal WOULD still involve a representative from both sides (league and pats) AS WELL AS a likely representative from the wells firm AND MOST IMPORTANTLY an independent arbitrator like tagliabue ala bountygate. this is not to mention representatives from the competition committee (which may include the colts and/or jets--both teams that have ratted out the pats). AND in both statements from bradys agent and kraft, neither has denied guilt OR said they were going to fight the punishment. people keep saying brady is going to appeal from 4 to 2, or 8 to 4. i just dont see it. the initial ruling will likely stick, and i expect it to be heavy since the league is in a tight spot. 16 games would put the league in a tighter spot, as they would be suspending the league championship game mvp for the entire next season for cheating, but 4 would be seen as weak by fanbases of other teams. 8 games, no appeal, brady comes back in week 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 If he's suspended they should enforce it Week 1 for their hoist the trophy TNF season opener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 trade cassel back to them for gronk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Plus I'm sure some players and the whole Saints organization will be pissed if nothing happens.Yep, there are a lot of people standing there saying, "you better do to the Pats as you would to the rest of us." That's part of the reason that they have to come down hard on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInMaine Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I don't want any suspensions for Brady. I want no excuses for the Cheats when we beat them. I don't want to hear any yea buts when we take the division and last I want no fuel for Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I don't want any suspensions for Brady. I want no excuses for the Cheats when we beat them. I don't want to hear any yea buts when we take the division and last I want no fuel for Brady.Really? We aren't putting them on the table and measuring (sorry for the crude analogy but it's all that I could think of). You don't need to prove your manhood in this league. Guys miss games all of the time. The goal is to win as many games as you can. It doesn't matter against who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 If you use baseball as a guide (the only other sport where the bats/balls can be tinkered with to gain an advantage), he should be suspended. Pitchers are suspended all the time for doctoring baseballs, similarly hitters with corked bats. Most suspensions for this sort of thing in baseball is 8-10 games....not much considering the season is 162 games. Now the NFL doesn't want to look soft here and the Pats* are repeat offenders in rule bending, so I think Brady gets 4 games with it being reduced on appeal to 2 games. Just my gut feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Really? We aren't putting them on the table and measuring (sorry for the crude analogy but it's all that I could think of). You don't need to prove your manhood in this league. Guys miss games all of the time. The goal is to win as many games as you can. It doesn't matter against who. Yeah I'm starting to see it this way too. Plus the guy is 38 going on 39. Pretty soon Garrapolo will be their starter anyway, so that will be the Pats at full strength. And Brady cheated and lied. He deserves to be suspended. If he hurts his team it's only his fault. How about the Garrapolo era against the Bills is the opposite of Brady against the Bills. 2-24 or whatever. If you use baseball as a guide (the only other sport where the bats/balls can be tinkered with to gain an advantage), he should be suspended. Pitchers are suspended all the time for doctoring baseballs, similarly hitters with corked bats. Most suspensions for this sort of thing in baseball is 8-10 games....not much considering the season is 162 games. Now the NFL doesn't want to look soft here and the Pats* are repeat offenders in rule bending, so I think Brady gets 4 games with it being reduced on appeal to 2 games. Just my gut feeling. I'm changing my prediction to 8 and upheld on appeal. He really has no grounds for appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Goodell Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 While the NFL takes all investigations very seriously, I think fans would rather see Tom Brady on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Another Patriot found guilty on circumstantial evidence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Are appeals always allowed? Like has there ever been an incident where an appeal wasn't allowed? Kind of like "no parole" Edited May 9, 2015 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Don't suspend him. Suspend his entire offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I'd like the suspension to be something along the lines of not being able to participate in any team activities from now through the first game. No TC, no preseason games, no meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Are appeals always allowed? Like has there ever been an incident where an appeal wasn't allowed? Kind of like "no parole" I've never heard of an appeal not being allowed. I suspect it's part of the CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Oh my goodness, for the last time, PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE. That's the standard used here. It literally means if it's at all over a 50% chance he's guilty, then he's GUILTY. A standard is a standard. It was met and then some, I don't anyone can disagree based on this particular standard. Pretty crappy standard when determining guilt, IMO, but at least in this instance it's related to something that actually impacts the game, so I find it more acceptable than when King Goodell uses this chicken **** standard to determine guilt and punishment for conduct unrelated to league activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 No sh--! I remain skeptical, but that would be something. That said, cheat, win SB, lose a couple game checks? Big deal in the grand scheme. I want to see this guy's reputation forever tarnished. Me too. No access into the Hall of Fame for him or any Patriots member involved in all of this going back to Spygate. Seems a proper punishment to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 this is a great point, but (being a conspiracy theorist) it makes me wonder: has the league, since then, paid hargrove an excessive amount of money to keep silent? because if I was hargrove, and brady got anything less than a year, i would sue the league into oblivion for all maters of lost wages, lost endorsements, defamation of character, racism(?), etc. etc. etc. it doesnt matter if theyre part of a players union... there is not a court in the world that would throw that case out. hargrove WOULD win, so the only reason hes not pursuing litigation in this case would have to be because of a payoff... right? On what theory could Hargrove recover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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