Wayne Cubed Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 7m7 minutes ago If Marrone didn't like Watkins trade, fine. He'll probably be right. But as HC with major input on gameplan, did he purposely limit targets? Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 7m7 minutes ago Ultimately, QB decides where to throw the football. But I think we all can agree Watkins wasn't first option as much as he should have been. Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 1m1 minute ago Watkins had five games with more than 10 targets. His average stat line in those games...5 catches and 127.4 yards. Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 2m2 minutes ago In the end, I doubt a HC would purposely not feature a player in the game plan as talented as Watkins, but it's worth wondering w/ Marrone. Boom goes the cannon. But who cares how often WR is targeted. Edited January 4, 2015 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Boom goes the cannon. But who cares how offer WR is targeted. It's pointless! It means nothing! All that matters is that ODB is ten times better than Sammy, CASE CLOSED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Doug-Marrone-All-I-care-about-is-what-you%E2%80%99re-going-to-do-now/7a113c7a-740e-4410-808e-a845a98e6ffb Q: What did you see on tape of Cyrus Kouandjio? Everything I read about him was how he has great feet? A: Yeah, he's a great football player. All three of those kids are impressive from what they can do. From a footwook standpoint, from an athletic standpoint... Q: What did you see specifically on Kouandjio? A: I thought he was a good football player. He's an excellent run blocker. He can knock people off the ball... Q: Given Seantrel (Henderson)'s issues in the past, does your background as a former offense line coach make the team more willing to take a chance on a player like that? A: Doug (Whaley) handles the roster, so that might be a better suited question for him, but we do talk about that... Very interesting quotes. Looks like he was onboard with the kujo pick but not the Henderson pick. Another reason why Marrone sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 If true, then it corroborates much of what we've debated for months now, but I'm not convinced Marrone's at fault. If he handed Whaley a grocery list for ground beef and taco shells only to have him come back with red sauce and pasta, then IMO Whaley was wrong. Marrone changed philosphies, that much is clear. More like he handed Whaley a grocery list with ground beef and taco on it, Whaley brings it back and Marrone yells at him "I wanted red sauce and pasta" and then storms out of the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 7m7 minutes ago If Marrone didn't like Watkins trade, fine. He'll probably be right. But as HC with major input on gameplan, did he purposely limit targets? Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 7m7 minutes ago Ultimately, QB decides where to throw the football. But I think we all can agree Watkins wasn't first option as much as he should have been. Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 1m1 minute ago Watkins had five games with more than 10 targets. His average stat line in those games...5 catches and 127.4 yards. Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 2m2 minutes ago In the end, I doubt a HC would purposely not feature a player in the game plan as talented as Watkins, but it's worth wondering w/ Marrone. Seeing how he alienated other players, I don't doubt it one bit. Marrone seems like the type of human being who will continuously cut off his nose to spite his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 If true, then it corroborates much of what we've debated for months now, but I'm not convinced Marrone's at fault. If he handed Whaley a grocery list for ground beef and taco shells only to have him come back with red sauce and pasta, then IMO Whaley was wrong. He was supposedly an offensive mind and OL whisperer. He was neither. That's on him and/or Hackett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) I love Sammy Watkins and I have a lot of faith that he is going to be a great receiver for the Bills. He is not as good as Odell Beckham, plain and simple. I really don't understand why that is so hard to admit. Sometimes there are guys who come out of the draft that are just on another level, Beckham is one of those guys. I don't give a flying **** how many times he was targeted per game. That is such a weak argument that I would be embarrassed to bring it up if I were you. Watkins is going to have to battle it out to be the 2nd best WR to come out of that draft with Mike Evans, and right now he is 3rd to Evans. Oh wait I forgot, Evans had McCown and Glennon throwing to him. As stated above, in games Watkins was targeted 10+ times, 5 of them, he averaged 127 yards a game. EDIT. Trapassos stats are way off. He didn't average that much. He had four games of over 10, and they were 11-117, 12-87, 14-122, 12-127. Edited January 4, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 As stated above, in games Watkins was targeted 10+ times, 5 of them, he averaged 127 yards a game. And he did it against better DBs than ODB played... but again, context means nothing to some folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Boom goes the cannon. But who cares how often WR is targeted. It's hilarious; as this thread was going back and forth and I was typing a response, my twitter feed just popped up with this stuff... It's gold Jerry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I must've missed that. Where did he say he wouldn't have drafted EJ at 16? I was always under the impression that Marrone and Nix were both on the same page with EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 As much as I dislike Marrone, I have to agree with him here. Mortgaging the future that much to select a WR is not a smart move if you have no QB. Sure, Watkins will win us a few more games, but we are talking about going from 6-10 to 9-7. Still not good enough to get to the playoffs or win in them. I guess this also says Marrone wasn't convinced EJ was the answer either. Another thing he was correct about. I agree with both of these thoughts. I think Whaley has done a better job than his predecessors, but I said at the time I was against trading up, and I still feel that way. Sooner or later the Bills will probably have to pay big bucks to get some other team's backup QB to compete with EJ in training camp. That is not a good position to be in, but that's where Whaley has put the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Beckham is better man, get over it. It isn't a slight against Watkins, Beckham may end up being a top 5 receiver of all-time. Most GM's would have taken Sammy over Beckham so we can't fault Whaley for that, but we can fault for the trade. Watkins is going to be great, maybe the best Bills WR ever but Beckham is better. It might be a little hard to swallow as Bills fans but we can't pretend like Beckham isn't better so our feelings don't get hurt. Wow, one year in and you know that! Impressive. Did you have RG3 and Kaepernick on the HOF as well? Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 And he did it against better DBs than ODB played... but again, context means nothing to some folks. His stats were off. Trapassos. But point taken. Beckham played great. There is no doubt about it. I would still rather have Sammy. If you switched teams, Sammy would have been insane and Beckham would have been frustrated beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 All that matters to you is Watkins was drafted by the Bills therefore he is better. Also how have I made up my mind about Watkins career trajectory? I think he could end up being a HOFamer and the best Bills receiver of all time. How is that making up my mind? It just happens to be clear to anyone not wearing Bills rose colored glasses that Beckham is better. It is not even an argument. He was targeted 20 times a game so his 10 catches 150 yards and 1 TD per game doesn't really count. Just a pathetic stance to take.I watched both of their college careers pretty closely. Sammy is better. Played hurt in a worse offense. Barring injuries Sammy will have the better career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I must've missed that. Where did he say he wouldn't have drafted EJ at 16? I was always under the impression that Marrone and Nix were both on the same page with EJ. Hey BPA, did you mean to attach a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 His stats were off. Trapassos. But point taken. Beckham played great. There is no doubt about it. I would still rather have Sammy. If you switched teams, Sammy would have been insane and Beckham would have been frustrated beyond belief. I'm with you. I think ODB and Sammy are the top two in a DEEP WR class. If you think about how much Sammy produced considering his injuries AND Marrone's incompetent offensive philosophy it's actually astounding. The guy has crazy talent and the desire to get better. ODB has crazy talent but his work ethic is unknown. How will he react when Cruz is back taking targets and balls away from him? On paper it should make ODB better next year, but the NFL is a weird and wild place. You just never can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 His stats were off. Trapassos. But point taken. Beckham played great. There is no doubt about it. I would still rather have Sammy. If you switched teams, Sammy would have been insane and Beckham would have been frustrated beyond belief. I didn't feel like fact checking btw... You are correct Sammy would have been lights out with Eli as a qb and a better offensive system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I'm with you. I think ODB and Sammy are the top two in a DEEP WR class. If you think about how much Sammy produced considering his injuries AND Marrone's incompetent offensive philosophy it's actually astounding. The guy has crazy talent and the desire to get better. ODB has crazy talent but his work ethic is unknown. How will he react when Cruz is back taking targets and balls away from him? On paper it should make ODB better next year, but the NFL is a weird and wild place. You just never can tell. I'd also add ODB is a bit smaller than Watkins. That would have me question durability a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I didn't feel like fact checking btw... You are correct Sammy would have been lights out with Eli as a qb and a better offensive system Oh, I believed them at first too. But when I was looking something up I saw they were off. I think he counted the big yardage game, 157 on only 6 targets as one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 What did Marrone think of the three offensive linemen the Bills picked in the draft? Any word on that? You know what that tells me? Maybe Marrone wanted an olinemen first--maybe trade back for Martin or Lewan. So to compensate Whaley picks 3 linemen later. What a circus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I must've missed that. Where did he say he wouldn't have drafted EJ at 16? I was always under the impression that Marrone and Nix were both on the same page with EJ. My comment was what Bill Polinan said of the pick. thirty seconds afterwords at the ESPN desk Berhman in shock asked Polian if he would pick EJ at 16. Polians comments shaking his head were " I think he is a project and a 2nd to 4th round pick". Maybe ESPN archives this video you can see it there. It is hard to forget if you saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 any retard could tell you that EJ was a waste of time. We really should have never drafted him. I think this was the major rift between Marrone and Whaley from Day 1. Whaley obviously stuck by EJ and not Marone. We really missed the boat on Carr and Bridgewater. We gotta find a QB. Hopefully Bryce Petty or someone can be had in teh 2nd round this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Oh, I believed them at first too. But when I was looking something up I saw they were off. I think he counted the big yardage game, 157 on only 6 targets as one of them. Still it's not bad. 5 games with 10+ targets 96.0 yard average. Consider his per game average for the season was 61.3 yards. Odell Beckham averaged 11 targets a game. Sammy averaged 8. It's funny but when Odell had below 10 targets his ypg was 49.0. Context people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Maybe Marrone walked out of the room after the Watkins trade because he knew we wouldn't be drafting again that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 any retard could tell you that EJ was a waste of time. We really should have never drafted him. I think this was the major rift between Marrone and Whaley from Day 1. Whaley obviously stuck by EJ and not Marone. We really missed the boat on Carr and Bridgewater. We gotta find a QB. Hopefully Bryce Petty or someone can be had in teh 2nd round this year. Except Nix was the Gm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCOHEN13 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 haha. I did see him writing some notes down. I think it was notes on how to maximize Lee Smith's playing time. LOL exactly... I still dont understand how as fans its SOOOOO beyond obvious and that to win football games u NEED your best players ON the field. On offense, coming into yr we were very deep at RB and had young and upcoming WR's that could have been dynamic if given SOME oppurtunities. However, we constantly saw Chandler, Gragg and Smith on the field together which means u give the D nothing to worry about down field. The running game could have been a weapon if we used our RB's properly and guys like M. Williams could have been productive and Goodwin should have seen more time on field just to pose a deep threat to give D a guy they know, if a coverage is blown, he could score from anywhere on field. Our personnel wasnt built to be a "3 TE vanilla O... Bad QB play or not... U need to give your best weapons at least some CHANCES to make plays for you. Especially when u have a D that you know can keep u in games. Most teams dont have that luxury. We did... Anyways, at least its over and i literally think nearly ANY candidate is better suited to guide this team as long as they have EYES and see who their best players are and USE THEM!!! RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I cant help but laugh at people sometimes. OBJ gets 20 targets per game. Sammy gets 5. Maybe OBJ is getting open more often than Sammy? I mean, maybe, just maybe, that's the reason for more targets???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I cant help but laugh at people sometimes. OBJ gets 20 targets per game. Sammy gets 5. Maybe OBJ is getting open more often than Sammy? I mean, maybe, just maybe, that's the reason for more targets???? It's not. Watching the all 22s will show this to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
run dat back Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 "Why do you keep handing me skill position players when I want plodders and maulers?" and punters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I cant help but laugh at people sometimes. OBJ gets 20 targets per game. Sammy gets 5. Maybe OBJ is getting open more often than Sammy? I mean, maybe, just maybe, that's the reason for more targets???? Really? ODB was being thrown to even when he wasn't open. QB's do target receivers that aren't "open". It's about giving the player a chance even if he isn't open. And the all-22 shows Watkins was in fact open quite a bit but either he wasn't the first read or Orton didn't look to him. Being open means diddlely squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Really? ODB was being thrown to even when he wasn't open. QB's do target receivers that aren't "open". It's about giving the player a chance even if he isn't open. And the all-22 shows Watkins was in fact open quite a bit but either he wasn't the first read or Orton didn't look to him. Being open means diddlely squat. Yup. It speaks to philosophy and game plan. The Giants made getting ODB the ball a priority. The Bills made getting Hogan and Lee Smith the ball priorities over Watkins. That's why it's ridiculous to compare the two straight up without any context. ODB had not only the better QB, but the better scheme and a coach who was determined to get him the ball multiple times a quarter. Sammy would go entire halves with only one touch sometimes -- and it had nothing to do with whether or not he was open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 any retard could tell you that EJ was a waste of time. We really should have never drafted him. I think this was the major rift between Marrone and Whaley from Day 1. Whaley obviously stuck by EJ and not Marone. We really missed the boat on Carr and Bridgewater. We gotta find a QB. Hopefully Bryce Petty or someone can be had in teh 2nd round this year. More like the Bills have wasted time with EJ having clowns coaching him. The Bills had to take a QB in 2013. And waiting until 2014 wasn't an option, and the jury is still out on Carr and Bridgewater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The talent on this roster screams spread offense, particularly at O-line. The offense doesn't have maulers despite their size. Nix's perspective on moving Tackles inside has to do with running the spread, more specifically, utilizing wider gaps between linemen allowing longer players space to pass protect against what is hoped to be one less defensive player in the box. A stacked box in those situations makes it far easier to diagnose who is hot. This goes for the receivers too. Another plus is the draw aspect of the run game. This is the only way to get production out of Spiller while mitigating his poor blitz pickup issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 More like the Bills have wasted time with EJ having clowns coaching him. The Bills had to take a QB in 2013. And waiting until 2014 wasn't an option, and the jury is still out on Carr and Bridgewater. I have a bit of a conspiracy theory based on what we now know about St. Doug the Confessor. Given the way he is, is it possible he knew his time in the NFL was limited. He saw that EJ would require some work and knew if he put the work in and EJ not succeed he probably wouldn't make it to his 2nd contract. Coaches that fall to develop QB's don't tend to get a 2nd chance. Therefore he gave up on EJ early as to not tarnish his reputation. Or he didn't know how to develop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Beckham is better man, get over it. It isn't a slight against Watkins, Beckham may end up being a top 5 receiver of all-time. Most GM's would have taken Sammy over Beckham so we can't fault Whaley for that, but we can fault for the trade. Watkins is going to be great, maybe the best Bills WR ever but Beckham is better. It might be a little hard to swallow as Bills fans but we can't pretend like Beckham isn't better so our feelings don't get hurt.Anybody who is comfortable making that call after one season is simply being ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proteus Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Anybody who is comfortable making that call after one season is simply being ridiculous. How hard was it to see that Manning was better than Leaf after one year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 How hard was it to see that Manning was better than Leaf after one year? So now Sammy is Ryan Leaf to ODB's Peyton Manning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I love Sammy Watkins and I have a lot of faith that he is going to be a great receiver for the Bills. He is not as good as Odell Beckham, plain and simple. I really don't understand why that is so hard to admit. Sometimes there are guys who come out of the draft that are just on another level, Beckham is one of those guys. I don't give a flying **** how many times he was targeted per game. That is such a weak argument that I would be embarrassed to bring it up if I were you. Watkins is going to have to battle it out to be the 2nd best WR to come out of that draft with Mike Evans, and right now he is 3rd to Evans. Oh wait I forgot, Evans had McCown and Glennon throwing to him. actually it isn't a weak argument in the least. How can you produce as much with 1/4 of the opportunities? To say nothing of the fact that those opportunities were coming with the Bills' line and QBs. Ridiculous. How hard was it to see that Manning was better than Leaf after one year?You're comparing apples and hacksaws, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 actually it isn't a weak argument in the least. How can you produce as much with 1/4 of the opportunities? To say nothing of the fact that those opportunities were coming with the Bills' line and QBs. Ridiculous. You're comparing apples and hacksaws, my friend. The Ryan Leaf analogy is my new favorite -- overtaking JTSP's contention that Sammy is actually Troy Brown and better suited to be a DB than a WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Team Marrone is doing everything they can defuse the noise coming from one Bills drive about him being a jerk/ not liked by any of his players and average coach at best.The facts are he was 15-17 and Sammy won two games late for him this year alone (Detroit & Viking game) has even one player on the Bills come forward to speak of the Bills great loss?Once again his agent has been feeding the media with crap stories until he can get the Jets to offer contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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