C.Biscuit97 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Again, even with 14 tds and 4 ints, Bradford had a 48 qbr. He put up stats in garbage time & against the worst teams in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 IMHO, the *ONLY* QBs the BILLS should be evaluating and scouting at the collegiate level, are QBs who run a Pro Style offense....otherwise, learning curve is too steep and development is even longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 What is the likelihood that signing/acquiring Bradford or another QB of that caliber would cost us to lose Dareus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 David Carr was around a long time as a backup Not with Houston, who drafted him. He was never a back up there after being named starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offyourocker Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Can he stay healthy is the question. Still not really proven. Behind our guards no problem Edited October 16, 2014 by offyourocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 genetic predisposition to injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I have no idea why some fans always think another teams garbage is going to be the savior of the franchise. I suppose we learned nothing about the supposed great pass rusher in "lights out" Shawn Merriman who was a waste of time & money. Last off season it was answer at TE in KC's Tony Moeaki, and how did that work out? The Bills FO knowing they need a decent top TE never addressed that position in the draft. Instead its two first rounders for a WR they want to use as a decoy. Man, I can't wait until a real football man is hired above* Whaley Edited October 16, 2014 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Bradford would be a great signing. He was a number one overall pick for a reason and if not for a fluke injury in the preseason he would limey be lighting up St. Louis right now. People forget how little help he had in the early years of his career. Think Alex Smith and how horrible he looked until he finally got a decent team around him. I would be ecstatic if they got Bradford and had someone like Orton (Who I bet will opt out of his contract btw) here just in case Jamarcus Russell was a first overall pick for a reason. I have no idea why some fans always think another teams garbage is going to be the savior of the franchise. I suppose we learned nothing about the supposed great pass rusher in "lights out" Shawn Merriman who was a waste of time & money. Last off season it was answer at TE in KC's Tony Moeaki, and how did that work out? The Bills FO knowing they need a decent top TE never addressed that position in the draft. Instead its two first rounders for a WR they want to use as a decoy. Man, I can't wait until a real football man is hired over Whaley I was listening to Peg's latest presser; he said he doesn't believe in drafting guards anywhere before the third round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Jamarcus Russell was a first overall pick for a reason. I was listening to Peg's latest presser; he said he doesn't believe in drafting guards anywhere before the third round. yea sure.. go stir somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 What evidence do you have that he isn't just that - a mediocre QB? He certainly is not a bum, but why the love for a guy who has been very ordinary? no evidence, but there a few examples of qb's floating along their first 5 years in the NFL and then getting good. Rich Gannon cones to mind. went from ho hum to superbowl champion level, chris chandler did it after tons of injuries, kurt warner got better and better. it can happen. we're seeing entire draft classes with no decent nfl qb's sometimes. maybe we should look at underperforming pro's in the wrong system. bradford has the intangibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I have no idea why some fans always think another teams garbage is going to be the savior of the franchise. I suppose we learned nothing about the supposed great pass rusher in "lights out" Shawn Merriman who was a waste of time & money. Last off season it was answer at TE in KC's Tony Moeaki, and how did that work out? The Bills FO knowing they need a decent top TE never addressed that position in the draft. Instead its two first rounders for a WR they want to use as a decoy. Man, I can't wait until a real football man is hired above* Whaley I disagree with the way you framed the issue. No one is looking for a savior that doesn't exist. What all teams do is constantly search to improve the team and depth. Hughes didn't work out in Indianapolis but he has been an impact player for us. For the previous few years both Urbik and Pears were functional players who upgraded (to an extent) the positions they played. As far as your example of TE Tony Moeaki what was the harm in bringing him in? He had some intriquing physical abilities. The staff gave him a good look and it didn't work out. He simply couldn't overcome his propensity to being injured. DT Charles is certainly contributing. I believe we got him off of another team's practice squad. Hoyer was a long time backup in New England. He rarely got an opportunity to play. He is far from being an all-star but he is good enugh to stabilize Cleveland's offense and give them a chance to be a good team. Orton at best is a fringe qb. Not only is he a dramatic improvement over EJ he also gives the Bills a chance to compete against most teams, something that Manuel couldn't do. No team is going to give away talented players. But rosters are limited and end of the roster players and developing players for some teams can be good players for teams that have position needs. Without a doubt a team with a losing history can't afford to be dismissive of any options to getting better, even marginally so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Just wondering everyone's thoughts on him. Doesn't appear he'll get his job back in St. Louis. Would you like us to bring him in? I would love to see him and a qb we draft battle it out for the job. He's shown some flashes in St Louis and was playing well last year before getting hurt. But he seems to be a QB who thrives in the right system - he was under-achieving notably previous to that. He also needs a solid OL ahead of him to function well. If we put him in with Hackett and our current OL I don't believe we'd like the results. The real problem is the reason he's done in St Louis. He's essentially like picking up Kolb - a guy who has shown flashes of true talent, but appears to be named after the German word for "knee made of glass". You can't plan on him, you can't count on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I disagree with the way you framed the issue. No one is looking for a savior that doesn't exist. What all teams do is constantly search to improve the team and depth. Hughes didn't work out in Indianapolis but he has been an impact player for us. For the previous few years both Urbik and Pears were functional players who upgraded (to an extent) the positions they played. As far as your example of TE Tony Moeaki what was the harm in bringing him in? He had some intriquing physical abilities. The staff gave him a good look and it didn't work out. He simply couldn't overcome his propensity to being injured. DT Charles is certainly contributing. I believe we got him off of another team's practice squad. Hoyer was a long time backup in New England. He rarely got an opportunity to play. He is far from being an all-star but he is good enugh to stabilize Cleveland's offense and give them a chance to be a good team. Orton at best is a fringe qb. Not only is he a dramatic improvement over EJ he also gives the Bills a chance to compete against most teams, something that Manuel couldn't do. No team is going to give away talented players. But rosters are limited and end of the roster players and developing players for some teams can be good players for teams that have position needs. Without a doubt a team with a losing history can't afford to be dismissive of any options to getting better, even marginally so. Great post John!! One more thing stemming off of it, no one is saying that Bradford is the savior. Realistically, what better options do the Bills have going into next year?!? You can only add guys that are available via the draft, a trade or FA. Even if the Bills had a 1st round pick you are going to be talking the middle of the round. I don't believe that Mariota or Cook will have been there anyways so who are we talking about handing the keys over to? Bryce Petty? Sean Mannion? What about via trade? I suppose that you can trade for Cousins but I don't see that making the Bills better. Hoyer and Bradford are the 2 guys that may hit the market and make a team better. Again, it's not perfect but you only have so many options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I have no idea why some fans always think another teams garbage is going to be the savior of the franchise. I suppose we learned nothing about the supposed great pass rusher in "lights out" Shawn Merriman who was a waste of time & money. Last off season it was answer at TE in KC's Tony Moeaki, and how did that work out? The Bills FO knowing they need a decent top TE never addressed that position in the draft. Instead its two first rounders for a WR they want to use as a decoy. Man, I can't wait until a real football man is hired above* Whaley Bradford is not garbage. He's a talented kid who had Steve Spagnuolo as his head coach his first 2 seasons and had 4 different OCs under 2 HC. That never helps. He was also doing a remake of "run for your life" most of the time. Last year, his second under Fisher/Schottenheimer, he looked as though the light bulb had finally flicked on and he was ready to go places. The problem is, "oooh shiny" from another team usually does come with a down side, and in Bradford's case that would be injury. A history of injury to the same knee is not good in a relatively immobile QB. If nothing else, other teams D will key on his knee for the rest of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 When Bradford went down (again) with injury, I knew his tenure with the Rams was over and suspected that he might end up with the Bills next season to push EJ. Even with his injury history, Bradford will attract many suitors and command a decent contract. With no 1st round pick and a new owner (and possibly new coach), I could see the bills overpaying for Bradford. Thats assuming Bradford even hits the market as UFA. I would not be surprised if the Rams slap the franchise tag on him. If that happens, the Bills are out of the running with no 1st rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Orton has a 2 year deal so he WILL be in Buffalo next year... right? Orton's deal has a player option for year 2. He can void it if he wants. Which he may choose to do if: 1.) He plays well as our starter and thinks he will get a better deal elsewhere. 2.) He plays poorly as our starter and we bring in another starter like Bradford. 3.) There is a coaching change and he doesn't want to team with a tear down and start over. 4.) He wants to stay home with his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 He's shown some flashes in St Louis and was playing well last year before getting hurt. But he seems to be a QB who thrives in the right system - he was under-achieving notably previous to that. He also needs a solid OL ahead of him to function well. If we put him in with Hackett and our current OL I don't believe we'd like the results. The real problem is the reason he's done in St Louis. He's essentially like picking up Kolb - a guy who has shown flashes of true talent, but appears to be named after the German word for "knee made of glass". You can't plan on him, you can't count on him. Flashes, really? Perhaps in his first year when he had Steven Jackson pounding the ball for him. His overall record is 18-30-1 That last line I bolded had me spitting coffee all over trying not to laugh so hard when I read it. The Bills O line is currently ranked as the worst in the league, and Hackett is probably the worst OC in the league. Dude, you are Hopeful! I do agree with the last part of your post tho Bradford simply doesn't look very promising to me, and he is more then likely ruined after 5 years on playing on bad teams, behind bad lines, with bad coaching. Sound familiar? In 2015 he will have played in 49 of 80 possible games over his five year career. The last two years he has played in only 7 games. I think I'll wait until we see who the Pegula's hire as a consultant, and then hear what he has to say before I put any credence into the idea of Bradford in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 If Oscar Goldman took him under his wing and paid for his surgeries, I'd take him. Other than that, I'd pay him 1-2 mill a year to be our backup. Too injury prone to roll the dice on imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Orton's deal has a player option for year 2. He can void it if he wants. Which he may choose to do if: 1.) He plays well as our starter and thinks he will get a better deal elsewhere. 2.) He plays poorly as our starter and we bring in another starter like Bradford. 3.) There is a coaching change and he doesn't want to team with a tear down and start over. 4.) He wants to stay home with his family. anyone have an idea on that date for the deadline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Great post John!! One more thing stemming off of it, no one is saying that Bradford is the savior. Realistically, what better options do the Bills have going into next year?!? You can only add guys that are available via the draft, a trade or FA. Even if the Bills had a 1st round pick you are going to be talking the middle of the round. I don't believe that Mariota or Cook will have been there anyways so who are we talking about handing the keys over to? Bryce Petty? Sean Mannion? What about via trade? I suppose that you can trade for Cousins but I don't see that making the Bills better. Hoyer and Bradford are the 2 guys that may hit the market and make a team better. Again, it's not perfect but you only have so many options. In the draft one mistake that many teams make is fixating on a "desperate" need instead of focusing on talent, regardless of position. Nix was determined to select a qb with a high round pick come hell or high water. And he was very public about it. Poker certainly is not a game he is suited to play. He was so concerned with not leaving this franchise without a qb prospect that he forced the issue by taking the best qb prospect in that particular draft year. The problem with that shortsighted approach is that the candidates in that year were not high end prospects, especially compared to the next year's draft. There was an overwhelming consensus by draft analysts that Manuel was an intriguing prospect who had very good physical attributes and admirable character traits. But almost everyone qualified their evaluations with the caveat that he was a developmental type prospect who would take years to be polished enough to start. Houston and Arizona are teams that had future qb needs this offseason. They went with the temporary fix with an experienced qb would serve as a bridge qb to when they finally found their qb of the future . Their approach is if he is not there, then he is not there. There are plenty of other positional needs that have to be addressed so work on upgrading the other positions with better prospects. The excruciating mistake with the Bills' approach is the nature of the qb position compared to other positions. If you are investing playing time and training in a qb that odds are may never develop then you have set the franchise back. What if over time Manuel improves to being an average qb? Is that good enough? Are you satisfied with a qb who will not get you anywhere meaningful? As others have stated I favor getting the best veteran qb we can get this offseason and then intelligently pursuing our long term franchise qb. Is Orton that type of qb? I think he could be. Ask Cleveland if they are satisfied with Hoyer at this point? I think they will say yes, although Manziel will probably question that issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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