Dragonborn10 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 At least Kiper owns up to his misses. McShay never does. Kiper added the loss of a future 1 and 4 into the grade. Let's face it if Watkins is a bust this draft will set the franchise back three years. If EJ and Watkins are legit Whaley is 2014 executive of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno999 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Trading away Stevie Johnson has to go in the decision. We now have to rely on the questionable Mike Williams and having a 6 foot nothing receiver be a #1. We have no size in the receiver position not a way to be successful in todays NFL undersized receivers with no TE Desean Jackson is 5'10" and has been to 3 pro bowls in 6 years. Let's give Sammy a shot and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 These guys like to boil the draft down to an exercise in arithmetic as if players all have a perfectly quantifiable, universal "value". That isn't how it works. These are human beings and that makes them unpredictable and infinitely variable. The plain fact is that there are only a handful of players in any draft that will have long careers in the league as reliable starters. How many first round picks would an Andre Reed be worth? Two? Three? Four? How many picks will the Bills not have to spend in the future looking for an all pro receiver because they have Watkins? If you spent three first round picks to get Bruce Smith, would you have "mortgaged your future", "paid too much" or "squandered" your picks? If Watkins ends up a great WR, then no one will give a damn that we spent two first rounders on him and if he stinks, than even if we got him in the 3rd round it will be remembered as a draft day blunder. Kiper on Ryan Leaf: “His attitude will be an asset in the NFL and give him a mental advantage over [other players in his draft class].” On Jimmy Clausen: “If [Clausen is] not a successful starting quarterback in the NFL, I’m done. That’s it. I’m out.” On Jason Smith: “The OT spot is strong at the top with Smith, a former tight end who is supremely athletic and exactly what you want in a left tackle: someone you can count on to protect theblind side of your quarterback.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I'll give Mel a pass for thinking Russell Wilson wasn't worth the pick for Seattle. Everyone else passed on the guy a few rounds as well. But here's a few Kiper classics - "I think Ryan Leaf is more mature than Drew Bledsoe, he's very much a grown up 21 year old." He followed that up by saying Leaf's attitude would be an asset in the NFL and give him a mental edge over Peyton Manning. - "Wes Welker is not worth a second round pick. I don't care how much you like his work ethic ... he has done nothing to show a value that high" - Kiper had QBs Dan McGwire and Brett Favre rated evenly heading into the 1991 draft. - “JaMarcus Russell’s gonna immediately energize that Raider Nation, that fanbase, that football team- on the practice field, in that locker room- three years from now you could be looking at a guy that’s certainly one of the elite top five quarterbacks in this league. You’re talking about a 2-3 year period once he’s under center. Look out because skill level that he has is certainly John Elway like.” - "Ki-Jana (Carter) could be the next Bo Jackson" - Kiper rated LaDainian Tomlinson as tied for the 25th-best player in the 2001 draft, and only the third-best running back that year, behind Mississippi's Deuce McAllister and Wisconsin's Michael Bennett. - Kiper said Matt Hasselbeck was "a waste of a pick" by the Packers (6th round 1998) When disagreed with about his rating of Mike Williams WR USC in the 2005 draft, Mel said "I'll see you at his Hall of Fame Induction." - In 1999, Mel said Akili Smith would give the Bengals "the type of passer they've not had since Boomer Esiason." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsguy Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Nobody knows at this point. If someone gives the Bills an "A+" or somebody else gives them an "F" then they are equally ridiculous. Equal. If you think the Bills had a great draft then your opinion is as nonsensical as another person who claims they had a horrible draft. The are equally and logically pointless. In 3 or 4 years, it might be fair to determine if the 2014 draft was productive or not. Until then, all opinions are useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 On Jimmy Clausen: “If [Clausen is] not a successful starting quarterback in the NFL, I’m done. That’s it. I’m out.” Oooh, someone oughta hold him to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drop Kick Flutie Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 giving up 2 top 10 picks for a WR is crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Kiper gave the Seahawks a C- for their 2012 draft as well. He said this Russell Wilson is a great test case for shorter QBs, because he has everything else, but did they need him in the third round after grabbing Matt Flynn to come in and likely start? And the Bleacher Report had this to say about the same draft As if the day wasn’t bad enough, Seattle selecting Russell Wilson, a QB that doesn’t fit their offense at all, was by far the worst move of the draft. Gave them a F. Hopefully the Bills have the same results in 2 years!! If I recall correctly, a lot of that Seattle low grade was for picking Irvin so high--he's also become a decent (albeit not dominant) player, as fate would have it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUBillsFan Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 giving up 2 top 10 picks for a WR is crazy That would be crazy, who did that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir andrew Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 What did Kiper actually do to get where he is today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) These low marks really don't surprise me at all. From the outside, the Watkins trade-up really is a bit of a head scratcher. Nobody was saying that WR was one of our greatest needs. But, from Whaley's "all-in on EJ" perspective, it was a high risk/high reward move. In terms of value, it seems crazy. We paid a high price to replace our #1 receiver with another #1 receiver. And, we're not just betting "all-in" for this year-- we sacrificed next year's draft as well. But, every pick we made AFTER round #1 seems perfectly in line with this strategy, and with GOOD VALUE. So be it. I HATE that we traded away Stevie-- I'll admit it, I was a fan. I was face-palming at the Watkins trade-up. I think we paid WAY too much. But, all-in, means ALL-IN. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to gamble. In fact, it's one of my favorite things about football. I was always a little lukewarm on Whaley, but now I LOVE him. I don't agree with pushing in all of our chips at this moment, but, what the hell? Sometimes, you just go for it, and I respect that. There is no back-peddling with an all-in bet. Edited May 12, 2014 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBackupQB Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 He said we could have kept the pick and took Odell Beckman, but he said all through the process....Watkins is ELITE! So basically if Watkins pans out yoy are saying elite talent Vs Good....and giving up a pick next year us not worth Elite talent.... Also next year draft us not projected to be a strong draft because if all the underclassmen that came out this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Which is funny because he liked all of our picks when watching live. I know right. I was thinking the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoto Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Kipper is Mr irrelevant of all analysis I place no value in ANYTHING the fool says. Gruden despises Kiper and the is no validity in anything that comes out of his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 What did Kiper actually do to get where he is today? First mover advantage--he was the original draft fanatic back 30 years or so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Kiper is giving his opinion based on how he evaluated the draft and the individual teams needs he evaluated. Every year he or another pundit gives the Bills a bad draft grade they knock them and call them idiots. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and analysis. Just because someone thinks the Bills did a bad job doesn't invalidate their opinion simply for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Kiper is giving his opinion based on how he evaluated the draft and the individual teams needs he evaluated. Every year he or another pundit gives the Bills a bad draft grade they knock them and call them idiots. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and analysis. Just because someone thinks the Bills did a bad job doesn't invalidate their opinion simply for that reason. Not at all. It simply makes them lazy at their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Kipper is Mr irrelevant of all analysis I place no value in ANYTHING the fool says. Gruden despises Kiper and the is no validity in anything that comes out of his mouth. http://youtu.be/hmEXtRZTKVo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) I didn't bother to read the thread so I apologize if this is repetitive but who cares? It really used to get to me when I felt that the Bills were being disrespected. Now I just don't care. I look at this draft and feel that they took care of pretty much everything that I wanted. I wanted an elite pass catcher (they got the best in 5 years) and better OL play where they landed 3 guys that can all play today. In addition, they got another run stuffing LB, a big corner and traded for a RB with worlds of talent (and some question marks). A TE would have been nice but outside of ASJ & Ebron I really wasn't interested in anyone else (including Niklas). A DE would have helped and I believe that Crichton would have been the pick in the 3rd & bumped the next 2 down a round (and they wouldn't have traded that 5th). That kind of is what it is. When I look at this team they are better at WR, RB, OL, QB (experience), LB & CB. They are the same at DL, TE & worse at S. This team is in much better shape top to bottom so I really don't care what Kiper has to say. Edited May 12, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Mel Kiper gave the Bills a C- grade for the draft. LOL It's the traditional time to assign letter grades to teams' draft hauls and this year is no different. ESPN NFL draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr.'s draft grades are posted and the Buffalo Bills did not fare well. Kiper gave the Bills a "C-minus," the second-lowest grade of any team. Only the Colts, with a "D-plus" grade, had a worse draft, according to Kiper. The grade is divided into two parts: "needs" and "value." Kiper gave the Bills a "D-plus" for needs and a "C" for value. What does mean?? It means the Bills had a great draft and Kiper is a moron. Everybody said Watkins was the best offensive and perhaps player in the draft. But God forbid that the Bills actually trade up and get the "best Player". When the Bills finish 10-6 and Watkins has 1300 yards and 8tds the experts can stuff it. Mel Kiper gave the Bills a C- grade for the draft. LOL It's the traditional time to assign letter grades to teams' draft hauls and this year is no different. ESPN NFL draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr.'s draft grades are posted and the Buffalo Bills did not fare well. Kiper gave the Bills a "C-minus," the second-lowest grade of any team. Only the Colts, with a "D-plus" grade, had a worse draft, according to Kiper. The grade is divided into two parts: "needs" and "value." Kiper gave the Bills a "D-plus" for needs and a "C" for value. What does mean?? It means the Bills had a great draft and Kiper is a moron. Everybody said Watkins was the best offensive and perhaps player in the draft. But God forbid that the Bills actually trade up and get the "best Player". When the Bills finish 10-6 and Watkins has 1300 yards and 8tds the experts can stuff it. Cancel the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Mel Kiper gave the Bills a C- grade for the draft. LOL It's the traditional time to assign letter grades to teams' draft hauls and this year is no different. ESPN NFL draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr.'s draft grades are posted and the Buffalo Bills did not fare well. Kiper gave the Bills a "C-minus," the second-lowest grade of any team. Only the Colts, with a "D-plus" grade, had a worse draft, according to Kiper. The grade is divided into two parts: "needs" and "value." Kiper gave the Bills a "D-plus" for needs and a "C" for value. What does mean?? It means the Bills had a great draft and Kiper is a moron. Everybody said Watkins was the best offensive and perhaps player in the draft. But God forbid that the Bills actually trade up and get the "best Player". When the Bills finish 10-6 and Watkins has 1300 yards and 8tds the experts can stuff it. I just don't get it? I mean...If you want to say the 3rd-7th round picks were average...Fine...I get it...But the 1st two picks were strong at need positions...So where does he get the D+? And value? Regardless of the off-the-field stuff, as players Henderson and Richardson could be tremendous values where they were picked...Whatever Mel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 So we paid for Watkins in future picks. What about teams that got compensatory picks? didn't they lose player to get the "welfare" pick from the league? Should they not be considered to have surrendered value for that pick? It should be all about net losses and net gains no matter how the player is lost or acquired. Is that not the only standard that counts? Mel Kiper never played and he never coached, he never had a job as a scout, he knows what he reads and looks at film. It's the equivalent of your neighbor who is an auto mechanic looking at your x ray and telling you that you need surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 it should be noted that mcshay, the other talking head of the espn machine's draft coverage, loved the trade for sammy watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oman128 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) Kiper is the only guy in America who can get 80% of his picks wrong and still keep his job for 30 years. Edited May 12, 2014 by oman128 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Kiper is the only guy in America who can get 80% of his picks wrong and still keep his job for 30 years. to be fair, 100% of the analysts get 80% of their picks wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Kiper spends hours and hours researching college players. I think it's probably safe to say he knows more about college football players than anyone on this board. But he's just one man. Teams have several regional scouts and national personnel guys. They do campus visits. They interview players - and their coaches. They check police records. They have a medical staff doing physicals. The resources a NFL franchise brings to the draft dwarfs what Kiper can bring to bear. Let's not forget, in the end, Kiper is just entertainment. He's got a job as long as we're amused by what he does. And apparently he's got some talent at amusing people because the public remains interested in what he has to say. Personally, though, I never take any entertainer too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 kiper is one man, can't be all knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) I haven't looked at his other grades, but if he's following form to the past, he grades everyone tough-- lots of B- , C+ type grades, and few, if any, A's. I don't know why he thinks he has to grade at a B- curve, but whatever. You can legitimately criticize Kiper for a lot of things, but you choose to criticize him for grading "tough" because he grades at a "B- curve?" So you're from Lake Wobegon, and a B- midpoint for the curve isn't far enough above average to satisfy you? http://www.theonion.com/articles/mel-kiper-trapped-for-3-days-under-toppled-big-boa,35979/ Edited May 12, 2014 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 My guess is the average draft grade for the Bills the last decade and a half has been a C or so by the media. On here probably a B+ or better. Judging by the results on the field perhaps we are not the best judges of talent either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan since '64 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 What grade did Kiper get on HIS draft? Did he have Manziel falling to 22? And why did he need 8 versions of his mock, does v. 8.0 mean that the first 7 were garbage? (yes, and it also means that #8 was equally garbageous) I can't believe people pay premium membership fees to see the nonsense he writes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I don't really understand getting low marks for 2014 draft because they will certainly give us low marks for 2015 simply for not having a first round pick - drafts grades shouldn't be graded on the future consequences only on how they help team now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 ...and the horse he rode in on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The reason I watch the NFL network on draft days is simply to not hear Kiper. He's a tool. Actually I like NFL Radio even more so after awhile I muted the TV, and put the radio on from my phone. I like Kirwan, Miller, Brandt, etc. they are far more interesting, and provide much better information. From ESPN, the only person I really enjoy who adds to the program is Bill Polian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 He said we could have kept the pick and took Odell Beckman, but he said all through the process....Watkins is ELITE! So basically if Watkins pans out yoy are saying elite talent Vs Good....and giving up a pick next year us not worth Elite talent.... Also next year draft us not projected to be a strong draft because if all the underclassmen that came out this year I also saw Kiper say the Bills COULD have stayed at 9 and picked Beckham instead of Watkins. But in doing this I think Mel strayed from the task of evaluating the picks and into the world of evaluating the teams strategy. Well who is the better prospect? And after all, the move surrendered zero 2014 picks but rather next year. So if you want to give the Bills a bad draft grade for the Watkins trade of picks then do it next year, not in 2014. And he stated that Kouandjio had injury questions with his knee. Well, the Bills staff along with Dr. Andrews checked out his knee and gave him the okay. Who am I going to believe concerning orthopedic problems like the knee? Draft guru Mel Kiper or world class doctor James Andrews? Overall, I thought it was a pretty could draft that addressed areas of need specifically the offensive line. If these big roadgraders can do the job then if anything it will make me happy to see 3 and 1 turn back to a running situation where the line pushes the defense back a couple yards rather than throwing an incomplete slant pattern and punting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 When the Bills finish 10-6 and Watkins has 1300 yards and 8tds the experts can stuff it.[/size][/color][/font] Kiper's crystal ball is covered with his own crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I also saw Kiper say the Bills COULD have stayed at 9 and picked Beckham instead of Watkins. But in doing this I think Mel strayed from the task of evaluating the picks and into the world of evaluating the teams strategy. Well who is the better prospect? And after all, the move surrendered zero 2014 picks but rather next year. So if you want to give the Bills a bad draft grade for the Watkins trade of picks then do it next year, not in 2014. And he stated that Kouandjio had injury questions with his knee. Well, the Bills staff along with Dr. Andrews checked out his knee and gave him the okay. Who am I going to believe concerning orthopedic problems like the knee? Draft guru Mel Kiper or world class doctor James Andrews? Overall, I thought it was a pretty could draft that addressed areas of need specifically the offensive line. If these big roadgraders can do the job then if anything it will make me happy to see 3 and 1 turn back to a running situation where the line pushes the defense back a couple yards rather than throwing an incomplete slant pattern and punting. This is right on as an analysis. Also all the analysis had Watkins as the very best WR in this draft. The "best" requires a premium. Watkins has more ball skills than Beckham who is a combination of a speed and route runner who is not going to out fight a DB for the Ball. The Bills need a guy who can win the contested battles. I also want to see our running backs behind these huge linemen. It is possible that the Bills will have the biggest OL in the league next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Kiper seems to grade the Bills harshly year in and year out. Giving up a first next year, if they make the playoffs, will not be a killer. The draft was deep this year because nearly twice the number of undergrads declared for it. Blame the new CBA. The talent pool will not be nearly as deep near the top of the first. Watkins was a good trade. Mel did not like it. Tough. I agree Cyrus and company each can be either a great pick or their liabilites limit their effectiveness. Henderson is the only draft pick I see as not making it out of training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beggar13 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) Kipper is a tool bag. End of story. Edited May 12, 2014 by beggar13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Mel Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Mel Who? Kiper....his name is in the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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