Who believes in Manuel?

[Maury Ballstein]

As soon as EJ can throw receivers open then I'm all in. For now Casserly is spot on. EJ is more of a project than Manziel, Bortles, Carr, McCarron or Garappolo.

 

Lock it in. You lost me at Mccarron though FTR.

[Heitz]

Heitz.....besides from the natural talents that EJ has going in his favor this is the single biggest thing that makes me believe he will succeed.....

 

John unless you can speak in absolute facts and tell me 100% if EJ is going to be the best QB in the history of the NFL or the biggest bust ever to be drafted I'm just not sure what to think

Edited April 13, 2014 by Heitz

[CSBill]

I see such a mixed result in views of our #1 pick from last year that I am curious as to who actually believes in him and why or why not.

 

IMHO I believe in the kid. He seems to have the right attitude and work ethic. Minus a couple "learning curve" injuries I think EJ is our man. He has all the tools and Buffalo seems poised to put weapons around him and I think he can get it done. Am I in the minority or majority here?

 

My Response: I want to believe in Manuel. The jury is still out, some signs of greatness, but so much more to do.

[JESSEFEFFER]

I appreciate the optimism, and all, but Flacco made it to the conference championship his rookie year, starting every game. If your prediction is going to come true, EJ has some catching up to do.

 

The normalized production of EJ's and Flacco's rookie seasons are vitually identical. As far as 2013 goes, Flacco returned to rookie/EJ-like production once again in what was his sixth year. I do not think Flacco is elite nor is he on a HOF path. I doubt he can justify that contract he received espcecially since Baltimore had to purge their roster to accomodate it.

 

He has held the starting job for 6 years (and not missed a game) and been good enough to get a consistently good team to the playoffs multiple times. Winning it all was surprising to me but Ozzie Newsome is generally credited with being one of the best organizational talent evaluators in the NFL and Flacco did not screw it up when they got their chance.

 

So, using Joe Flacco as the standard for EJ is not really setting the bar too high, imo.

Edited April 13, 2014 by JESSEFEFFER

[Maury Ballstein]

 

Patience grasshoppers.....with a lineman and another weapon I think EJ will do well.

 

If not...then the 2015 qb will have a nice setup at least.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Ryan L Billz

[BillsBytheBay]

I dont like the thought of burning a high pick on another QB when we still have plenty of holes. The Bills scouted this guy and decided he was worth a 1st round pick. Be committed and build around him. The book on Manuel was that he was one of the most talented QB's last year, but was raw. As Ive said before. New rookie coordinator. Young receiving corps. Sub par o-line. Average to below average TE. As they get better, EJ will get better. Jim Kelly was average at best his first four years here. Add lofton and get reed and thomas some experience and the 1990 bills offense evolves into one of the best. Not to mention the improvements they made on the o-line in his first four years.

Washington spent two high picks on QB's in one draft last year. Looked smart to me. Edited April 13, 2014 by JaxBills

[chris heff]

Washington spent two high picks on QB's in one draft last year. Looked smart to me.

So far it's turned out great for them.

[dave mcbride]

So far it's turned out great for them.

They at least made the playoffs in one of those seasons, and largely because of QB play. The Bills have not made the playoffs in a very, very long time. It's hard to question the Redskins' approach from a Bills-oriented standpoint ...

 

The normalized production of EJ's and Flacco's rookie seasons are vitually identical. As far as 2013 goes, Flacco returned to rookie/EJ-like production once again in what was his sixth year. I do not think Flacco is elite nor is he on a HOF path. I doubt he can justify that contract he received espcecially since Baltimore had to purge their roster to accomodate it.

 

He has held the starting job for 6 years (and not missed a game) and been good enough to get a consistently good team to the playoffs multiple times. Winning it all was surprising to me but Ozzie Newsome is generally credited with being one of the best organizational talent evaluators in the NFL and Flacco did not screw it up when they got their chance.

 

So, using Joe Flacco as the standard for EJ is not really setting the bar too high, imo.

If you're going to assess Flacco, you can't exclude his 13-game playoff record. He has thrown 19 TDs to 8 INTs, and the Ravens have gone 9-4 with him as a starter. And it would be 10-3 if Lee Evans holds onto the ball.

[JESSEFEFFER]

They at least made the playoffs in one of those seasons, and largely because of QB play. The Bills have not made the playoffs in a very, very long time. It's hard to question the Redskins' approach from a Bills-oriented standpoint ...

 

 

If you're going to assess Flacco, you can't exclude his 13-game playoff record. He has thrown 19 TDs to 8 INTs, and the Ravens have gone 9-4 with him as a starter. And it would be 10-3 if Lee Evans holds onto the ball.

 

I am not excluding anything. Read the 2nd paragraph. That's my assessment. Joe Flacco's overall ability, much like Eli Manning's, has been the subject of much scrutiny amongst their interested observers. Given their 2013 seasons I suspect the doubters have gotten their 2nd wind.

[dave mcbride]

I am not excluding anything. Read the 2nd paragraph. That's my assessment. Joe Flacco's overall ability, much like Eli Manning's, has been the subject of much scrutiny amongst their interested observers. Given their 2013 seasons I suspect the doubters have gotten their 2nd wind.

Well, the doubters are foolish then. The Ravens have gone 62-34 with Flacco as a starter and 9-4 in the playoffs. Moreover, he CARRIED them in the 2012 playoffs, during which the Ravens defense gave up 419, 398, 428, and 468 yards in successive games. He's an elite QB although his numbers aren't Brees-like.

Edited April 13, 2014 by dave mcbride

[PearlHowardman]

Please Google Phil Simms.

 

You mean this:

 

"Simms won his first five starts of his rookie year. He led the team to a 6–4 record as a starter, throwing for 1,743 yards and 13 touchdown passes and was named to the NFL All Rookie Team. He was runner-up in 1979 for Rookie of the Year, losing out to future teammate, Ottis Anderson."

[FireChan]

I am not excluding anything. Read the 2nd paragraph. That's my assessment. Joe Flacco's overall ability, much like Eli Manning's, has been the subject of much scrutiny amongst their interested observers. Given their 2013 seasons I suspect the doubters have gotten their 2nd wind.

 

Doubters? They've won Superbowls. That's not doubtable. Please stop comparing EJ to SB winning QB's. It makes it that much sadder.

[Sisyphean Bills]

EJ will start next year. If he doesn't show any progress, we'll have a repeat of the last decade, get a new coach, and blow it up again. It feels like we all argue about the same chit every off-season about EJ/ Fitz/ Edwards(who I think compares to EJ well)/ Losman or whoever.

 

If a QB has a higher grade to the team than EJ did at the draft, they need to take him.

 

Pittsburgh knew they had their guy, Indy knew they had their guy, twice. Washington knew, Seattle knew, green bay knew. It doesn't take long to see. I don't see it in EJ. He's just Trent Edwards with an arm.

 

I think this debate is a little more centered than the Edwards debate. Edwards got the love and support of a majority of Bills fans as I recall. Manuel has his supporters, but people are expressing doubts at roughly the same rate it seems.

[BillsBytheBay]

 

 

I think this debate is a little more centered than the Edwards debate. Edwards got the love and support of a majority of Bills fans as I recall. Manuel has his supporters, but people are expressing doubts at roughly the same rate it seems.

my only point is that in most cases, teams that have good QB's knew it going into year two. We, are still having the same issues of arguing if he will be the guy.

 

If the Bills belive that a QB is going to be better than EJ (and I think theirs a few) and he's available, and they don't take him, it'll be a travesty.

[88what]

you guys are ridiculous! it was a rookie season, he will come out of year 2 as the best buffalo quarterback ever in his 2nd year after college

[chris heff]

 

 

You mean this:

 

"Simms won his first five starts of his rookie year. He led the team to a 6–4 record as a starter, throwing for 1,743 yards and 13 touchdown passes and was named to the NFL All Rookie Team. He was runner-up in 1979 for Rookie of the Year, losing out to future teammate, Ottis Anderson."

 

Next two paragraphs.

 

"Simms' next four years were marred by injuries and inconsistent play. He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards.[12] In 1981, Simms threw for 2,031 yards, 11 touchdowns, and 9 interceptions on 54.4% completion percentage[12] before suffering a separated shoulder in a November 15 loss to the Washington Redskins.[13] With Simms out, the Giants went on a run led by Scott Brunner and advanced to the second round of the playoffs. Simms suffered a torn knee ligament in a preseason game against the New York Jets, preventing him from playing the entire 1982 season.[14] Following the season, Ray Perkins resigned as head coach to take over the same position at the University of Alabama, and was replaced by the team's defensive coordinator Bill Parcells. In the coming years this change would prove crucial to the Giants and Simms.

 

One of Parcells first decisions as coach was to replace Simms as the starting quarterback with Brunner.[15] Simms asked to be traded after the benching, but his request was ignored.[16] During the sixth game of the Giants' 1983 Season, Simms came in to replace the struggling Brunner against the Philadelphia Eagles. On his second drive, Simms suffered a season-ending injury when the thumb on his throwing hand hit a player's helmet on his follow-through. The injury was reported as a dislocation, but according to the book, Simms to McConkey, written by Phil McConkey, Simms, and Dick Schaap, the injury was much more severe, with the thumb literally hanging off after impact, and the bone sticking out through the skin.[17]"

[BillsBytheBay]

you guys are ridiculous! it was a rookie season, he will come out of year 2 as the best buffalo quarterback ever in his 2nd year after college

lol, the hypocrisy of you're two staments is awesome.

[Chandler#81]

you guys are ridiculous! it was a rookie season, he will come out of year 2 as the best buffalo quarterback ever in his 2nd year after college

 

Ridiculous personified.

 

 

 

Doubters? They've won Superbowls. That's not doubtable. Please stop comparing EJ to SB winning QB's. It makes it that much sadder.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. EJ, with all his at-best mediocrity, could well be a SB winning QB with a team as strong as Baltimore then. BUT...

 

We haven't had a strong team in decades. We NEED superior QB play to have a punchers chance and EJ Manuel AIN'T that guy!

[chris heff]

 

 

Ridiculous personified.

 

 

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. EJ, with all his at-best mediocrity, could well be a SB winning QB with a team as strong as Baltimore then. BUT...

 

We haven't had a strong team in decades. We NEED superior QB play to have a punchers chance and EJ Manuel AIN'T that guy!

I don't understand why people think it is easier to find an elite QB, who can carry a team, than building a great team around a good QB? This is not about Manuel, just in general. How many QBs playing now are elite, four maybe five? The oldest being Payton Manning, drafted in 1998, so the last 15 years has produced a hand full of elite QBs.. It is the same for every era.

[K-9]

I don't understand why people think it is easier to find an elite QB, who can carry a team, than building a great team around a good QB? This is not about Manuel, just in general. How many QBs playing now are elite, four maybe five? The oldest being Payton Manning, drafted in 1998, so the last 15 years has produced a hand full of elite QBs.. It is the same for every era.

 

Elite QBs are probably the rarest animal in sports. And none, repeat NONE of the prospects in this draft have exhibited anything remotely resembling elite to this point. Just wait to see the inevitable backlash by that certain segment of fans when the team that drafts and starts one of them this year struggles at the QB position.

 

Man, when I think of the Niners and their incredible good fortune in having 20 years of QB play by back to back HOFers...

 

GO BILLS!!!

[JESSEFEFFER]

Neither Flacco or E Manning won the SuperBowl in their rookie year. They both won it in year 5. EJs rookie year looks alot like Flacco's. The big difference is 10 vs. 16 games played. The first 3 statements are facts. The last is an opinion.

 

I am not a homer or a doubter. I am a "wait and seer" which is the only sensible place to be. Making definitive conclusions based on little to no evidence is rather foolish, imo.

[thebandit27]

Neither Flacco or E Manning won the SuperBowl in their rookie year. They both won it in year 5. EJs rookie year looks alot like Flacco's. The big difference is 10 vs. 16 games played. The first 3 statements are facts. The last is an opinion.

 

I am not a homer or a doubter. I am a "wait and seer" which is the only sensible place to be. Making definitive conclusions based on little to no evidence is rather foolish, imo.

 

Indeed

[chris heff]

 

 

Elite QBs are probably the rarest animal in sports. And none, repeat NONE of the prospects in this draft have exhibited anything remotely resembling elite to this point. Just wait to see the inevitable backlash by that certain segment of fans when the team that drafts and starts one of them this year struggles at the QB position.

 

Man, when I think of the Niners and their incredible good fortune in having 20 years of QB play by back to back HOFers...

 

GO BILLS!!!

Steve Young was considered a bust in Tampa.

[K-9]

Steve Young was considered a bust in Tampa.

 

True. And that was AFTER gaining valuable pro experience in the USFL.

 

Rookie QBs haven't evolved at the same pace as fan expectations.

 

I remember clearly the large segment of fans that didn't think Jim Kelly would amount to much, either when he struggled his rookie year. Even though he clearly showed glimpses of greatness. Even later, there was a segment that wanted to start Reich instead. Unbelievable the lack of patience even then. Imagine if the internet and other social media outlets of today were around then as well.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[CodeMonkey]

Neither Flacco or E Manning won the SuperBowl in their rookie year. They both won it in year 5. EJs rookie year looks alot like Flacco's. The big difference is 10 vs. 16 games played. The first 3 statements are facts. The last is an opinion.

 

I am not a homer or a doubter. I am a "wait and seer" which is the only sensible place to be. Making definitive conclusions based on little to no evidence is rather foolish, imo.

How dare you come in here with a mere 300 posts and not state that either Manuel is great or he is a bust after his first season!?!?

Next you will be saying you don't know for a fact that the Bills new ownership will or will not move the team!

Blasphemy I say!

[YoloinOhio]

my only point is that in most cases, teams that have good QB's knew it going into year two. We, are still having the same issues of arguing if he will be the guy.

 

If the Bills belive that a QB is going to be better than EJ (and I think theirs a few) and he's available, and they don't take him, it'll be a travesty.

The "team" does know it going into year two. Or at least they are saying that. "We" are fans, not the team, that is having the same issues of arguing if he will be the guy. The Bills are not doing that. As far as we know.

 

On NFL AM they were discussing whether this upcoming season for Ryan Tannehill is a make it or break it year(his third). They all said no. Sam Bradford is going into his 5th year. No playoffs, injury bug, and seems to be regressing since his rookie year. Yet the Rams have the #2 overall pick and no QB mocked to them. They say it is Bradford's job. Not saying it is right or wrong for these QBs to get the benefit of the doubt. But interesting nonetheless that some 1st rounders get more time, whereas some posters, and Charlie Casserly, want to move on from EJ already. When they bring up Geno Smith, they say he was forced to play too early due to injury so no one can judge him. How is that not different than EJ, who also had the vet QB signed to be the starter in TC go down with injury? EJ was always looked at as a project, just like Blake Bortles (all the measurables, needs to develop), yet Bortles could go #1 in a class of great QB quantity. EJ was a "reach" at 16. I give up.

Edited April 13, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[K-9]

The "team" does know it going into year two. Or at least they are saying that. "We" are fans having the same issues of arguing if he will be the guy. The Bills are not doing that. As far as we know.

 

Well, if one of the "top 10" QBs falls to us at nine and they DO end up taking him, then we'll know for sure where the team stands. I highly doubt that happens though. If it does, I'll be shocked but not surprised. Nothing in the NFL surprises me anymore.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Big C]

Just watched this highlight reel from the first five games of last season:

 

While I know EJ had his share of poor judgement calls and bad games altogether, he did make some really great throws too. He also has GREAT chemistry with Woods and I am looking forward to seeing how the grow together this year. If EJ can stay healthy, I believe he still has a shot at being our guy.

[John from Riverside]

Doubters? They've won Superbowls. That's not doubtable. Please stop comparing EJ to SB winning QB's. It makes it that much sadder.

 

Perhaps if people also stop comparing to quarterback busts? Because that is equally as silly

[oman128]

He hasn't proven himself yet. He needs a big step forward 20 TD's min.

[Dorkington]

Just watched this highlight reel from the first five games of last season:

 

While I know EJ had his share of poor judgement calls and bad games altogether, he did make some really great throws too. He also has GREAT chemistry with Woods and I am looking forward to seeing how the grow together this year. If EJ can stay healthy, I believe he still has a shot at being our guy.

 

It really was too bad that he got injured against the Browns.

[K-9]

Just watched this highlight reel from the first five games of last season: http://www.reddit.co..._first_5_games/

 

While I know EJ had his share of poor judgement calls and bad games altogether, he did make some really great throws too. He also has GREAT chemistry with Woods and I am looking forward to seeing how the grow together this year. If EJ can stay healthy, I believe he still has a shot at being our guy.

 

Nice. That throw to Chandler vs. NE that preceded and set up the TD pass to Wood, is still the bellweather throw for me.

 

And I can't wait to see Robert Woods with a year under his belt. He can beat press or soft man as well as find the spaces in zones. He's good.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[FireChan]

 

 

Perhaps if people also stop comparing to quarterback busts? Because that is equally as silly

 

That makes no sense. There have only been 48 Superbowls. With guys who have won multiples.

 

How many QB busts have there been over the years? Probably quadruple that number.

[Chandler#81]

 

 

Elite QBs are probably the rarest animal in sports. And none, repeat NONE of the prospects in this draft have exhibited anything remotely resembling elite to this point. Just wait to see the inevitable backlash by that certain segment of fans when the team that drafts and starts one of them this year struggles at the QB position.

 

Man, when I think of the Niners and their incredible good fortune in having 20 years of QB play by back to back HOFers...

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

In your opinion, which again, no one's listening. There's a Heisman Trophy winner among this group and every year QB play at the college level improves as ex-NFL coaches take more reins there. I don't think Manuel will be good, unlike you who KNOWS everything.

 

You're shtick is old and boring. News flash: you don't know crap about the future -just like all the rest of humankind.

[Best Player Available]

 

 

In your opinion, which again, no one's listening. There's a Heisman Trophy winner among this group and every year QB play at the college level improves as ex-NFL coaches take more reins there. I don't think Manuel will be good, unlike you who KNOWS everything.

 

You're shtick is old and boring. News flash: you don't know crap about the future -just like all the rest of humankind.

81 thanks for your comments here. Very hard to disagree with a single word of it. You're right no one is listening.

[chris heff]

 

 

In your opinion, which again, no one's listening. There's a Heisman Trophy winner among this group and every year QB play at the college level improves as ex-NFL coaches take more reins there. I don't think Manuel will be good, unlike you who KNOWS everything.

 

You're shtick is old and boring. News flash: you don't know crap about the future -just like all the rest of humankind.

So no one is paying attention to K-9 because he disagrees with you? Heisman Trophy winning QB equals success, got it.

[LB3]

 

 

In your opinion, which again, no one's listening. There's a Heisman Trophy winner among this group and every year QB play at the college level improves as ex-NFL coaches take more reins there. I don't think Manuel will be good, unlike you who KNOWS everything.

 

You're shtick is old and boring. News flash: you don't know crap about the future -just like all the rest of humankind.

 

What does one of the QB's being a Heisman winner have to do with anything other than it meaning he will probably not be successful in the NFL? Who was the last successful Heisman winning QB? Testaverde?

[BillsBytheBay]

The "team" does know it going into year two. Or at least they are saying that. "We" are fans, not the team, that is having the same issues of arguing if he will be the guy. The Bills are not doing that. As far as we know.

 

On NFL AM they were discussing whether this upcoming season for Ryan Tannehill is a make it or break it year(his third). They all said no. Sam Bradford is going into his 5th year. No playoffs, injury bug, and seems to be regressing since his rookie year. Yet the Rams have the #2 overall pick and no QB mocked to them. They say it is Bradford's job. Not saying it is right or wrong for these QBs to get the benefit of the doubt. But interesting nonetheless that some 1st rounders get more time, whereas some posters, and Charlie Casserly, want to move on from EJ already. When they bring up Geno Smith, they say he was forced to play too early due to injury so no one can judge him. How is that not different than EJ, who also had the vet QB signed to be the starter in TC go down with injury? EJ was always looked at as a project, just like Blake Bortles (all the measurables, needs to develop), yet Bortles could go #1 in a class of great QB quantity. EJ was a "reach" at 16. I give up.

I'm not speculating on what EJ can be. I'm observing what he is now. I like Tannehill more than I do EJ, but I don't think either are a lock to be franchise QB's. If I were the Bills, Phins or Rams, I would really consider an early QB.

Last year, everybody thought three or four QB's would go in the first. One did, and really shouldn't have. I see this year being much the same. I don't believe that more than one QB will go in the first round if any.

Now if I'm right, and a QB with a higher college grade than EJ (to the Bills) is their with our second round pick, do you not take him?

[3rdand12]

Just watched this highlight reel from the first five games of last season: http://www.reddit.co..._first_5_games/

 

While I know EJ had his share of poor judgement calls and bad games altogether, he did make some really great throws too. He also has GREAT chemistry with Woods and I am looking forward to seeing how the grow together this year. If EJ can stay healthy, I believe he still has a shot at being our guy.

This is an opinion i can respect. You went back and did the work. Then formed a qualified opinion.

Geez i wish i could do that better.

 

also i am sorry that this has gotten heated around here.

This is supposed to be place that provides some levels of comfort away from the sometimes harsh realities of life.

Mods please relax a pinch and let us fools carry on " You're shtick is old and boring. News flash: you don't know crap about the future -just like all the rest of humankind. " Sounds like a personal attack.

[chris heff]

I'm not speculating on what EJ can be. I'm observing what he is now. I like Tannehill more than I do EJ, but I don't think either are a lock to be franchise QB's. If I were the Bills, Phins or Rams, I would really consider an early QB.

Last year, everybody thought three or four QB's would go in the first. One did, and really shouldn't have. I see this year being much the same. I don't believe that more than one QB will go in the first round if any.

Now if I'm right, and a QB with a higher college grade than EJ (to the Bills) is their with our second round pick, do you not take him?

I read somewhere(can't remember where) that if there is a QB you want and your going to take him early the best place to take him is mid first. You won't over pay and you get fifth year option.