TPS Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Marrone banged hard on the table to hire Pettine in the first place and it was Marrone that put the full court press on him during Pettine's interview process. Sorry, but I can't buy your premise on any level here. GO BILLS!!! Yes, he wanted someone with an "aggressive D" philosophy. Pettine was one of a couple names available, and DM courted him. Yes, Pettine brought and delivered it, but, in the end, not to Marrone's satisfaction with the run D (and some other stats mentioned by others in the thread). AND, while I think they had to have a decent professional working relationship, I don't think it went any further than that; and I do think that the personal relationship matters, especially if there's going to be a difference of opinion on philosophy wrt the run D. Firing Driesbach doesn't make a lot of sense in isolation. If DM said it was due to "philosophical differences," doesn't that suggest he has the same differences with Driesbach's mentor Pettine? It would've been interesting to see how the defensive "changes" would've played out if Pettine didn't get the Browns' job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Put this in the category of thinking too much during the off-season... Every time I see an article about Marrone wanting to make changes on defense, I wonder about what happened behind the scenes in the D-Co regime change? I think that once Schwartz was fired, and several coaching jobs became available, Marrone started to work toward the Schwartz hire. My reasoning... 1. Any time Marrone is asked about Pettine, he says something like "I have nothing but the utmost respect for him," but you can tell there is no emotional attachment. Pettine was never a Marrone guy, in the sense they had some personal history. I never sensed any kind of friendship between them, and I think their relationship was just that, professional. What you see with most coaching relationships is some past connection that is also personal--you typically hire a guy you like and know you can work with. Marrone went for Pettine as one of the best available options for the type of D he wanted, but they shared no personal history; it was purely a professional relationship between the two. 2. We know that Marrone was not happy with Pettine's D overall. Yes, it generated flashy sack numbers and TOs, but did poorly against the run. I think Marrone is philosophically a "run and stop the run" kind of coach. He said changes were happening regardless, and the change was mainly going to be focused on stopping the run. 3. Pettine credited Marrone for preparing him for the job interviews; not just a general thanks, but DM went above and beyond. As I believe, getting Pettine hired was the easiest solution for Marrone's change on D, especially knowing Schwartz was available. 4. Firing Driesbach seemed to come out of the blue, and DM's reasoning was cited as "philosophical differences." Driesbach was a Pettine man who coached up the (almost) DOY in Kiko. That is a pretty flimsy excuse, unless he was trying to ruffle Pettine's feathers? Pettine picked Driesbach up once he was hired. Marrone obviously couldn't fire Pettine without setting off a fire storm, so I believe this was the next best thing--urge Pettine to go for the Browns' opening by both encouraging him to and firing one of his boys. Yes, purely conjecture, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some substance to it... I disagree with your first point and see absolutely no relevance to reality. Do you think Pettine left b/c he isn't friends with Marrone? Or do you think Pettine left b/c he had an opportunity to be a HC? Was Marrone not happy with the Defense? Are you trying to say that Marrone pushed Pettine out the door? I'm not completely following what you're trying to say. Whether or not Pettine and Marrone went out for dinner is irrelevant to anything, IMO. Pettine didn't resign, he went for a promotion. The move makes sense for Pettine. I think you're looking into it too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 I disagree with your first point and see absolutely no relevance to reality. Do you think Pettine left b/c he isn't friends with Marrone? Or do you think Pettine left b/c he had an opportunity to be a HC? Was Marrone not happy with the Defense? Are you trying to say that Marrone pushed Pettine out the door? I'm not completely following what you're trying to say. Whether or not Pettine and Marrone went out for dinner is irrelevant to anything, IMO. Pettine didn't resign, he went for a promotion. The move makes sense for Pettine. I think you're looking into it too much. obviously I'm looking into it too much, however... Most HCs hire coordinators they have some kind of history with, or a coaching friend vouches for. Hackett and crossman for example. A HC wants a coordinator who is capable, but also one he can work with day in, day out. What I'm saying is that I think there were philosophical differences AND I don't think they got along all that well. Lastly, there was a little bit of pushing and helping out the door. The push came from firing Driesbach, pettine's guy, for philosophical differences, the help was prepping him for the interview, and probably encouraging him to apply.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Also, while the team's 30 Takeaways may seem impressive, probably based on the 6th ranking or whatever around there it was, it really was a pretty average figure. The league average was 25.4 but the standard deviation nearly 6, so over 2/3 of the league was between 31.3 and 19.5. More specifically, and narrowed down a bit, 15 teams were between 26 and 31 Takeaways. So how impressive was 30 really? Not all that much except in contrast with other crud seasons. When we consider that 23 of the 30 were INTs it's even more telling. When we consider that of those 23 INTs, 5 were against Flacco, 5 against Geno Smith, and 2 against Henne, QBs on the most anemic offenses in the league, how impressive is it really. Someones taking intro to statistics. Hated that class! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) The Bills finished 8th in defense this past year. Over the past five years, the Lions D under Schwartz finished 16th, 13th, 23rd, 21st, and 32nd. He was the head coach not coordinator...unless he was calling the plays and drawing up schemes every game that's irrelevant. No matter how much a DC is like minded they will still see how to attack things differently, call plays at certain times for different reasons, etc...so unless he was the one doing all those things it doesn't matter Edited February 24, 2014 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 too rational! LOL. Yep, nobody is going to take that story and run with it. Not enough conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The Bills finished 8th in defense this past year. Over the past five years, the Lions D under Schwartz finished 16th, 13th, 23rd, 21st, and 32nd. that is shortsighted Dave Mcbride . Most of us know this. I am concerned too. But would you care to recite his stats as a defensive coordinator to be fair ? True, but Greggo Marrone has already shown a penchant for selecting and keeping underperforming Lions coaches so Schwantz seems to fit. still mad about Crosman huh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) I can believe there is much more than meets the eye in regard to the Brotherhood of NFL coaches. I would imagine a lot more regular dialogue than we fans will ever know between those guys . And planning , scheming , wining and dining (not literal of course ) etc. Marrone knew the moves well before we could imagine them. Big chess game , coaching. The way the Bills sit right now after two years of fairly sweeping changes. I myself see a plan of sorts . So who do you guys think moves into Schwaatzes job next. His role must be temporary ? I imagine he is here to teach . pass on knowledge and stop the run , and then move back into a HC position. at this point i hope we can have a DC for two years in a row ! Edited February 25, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I think Marrone was happy to have Pettine and he may just be a decent guy that wanted him to do well on a personal level. #Longoffseason That's just what Haslam's mind control machines want us to think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) that is shortsighted Dave Mcbride . Most of us know this. I am concerned too. But would you care to recite his stats as a defensive coordinator to be fair ? still mad about Crosman huh ? Schwartz's defensive rankings in yardage in TN, working backward from 2008: 7th, 5th, 32nd, 19th, 27th, 12th, 10th, 25th. The average over 8 years: 17th. The median: 15.5. The epitome of average, no? I'm not saying he's bad, mind you. I think he's probably fine. But I do think Pettine is a better coordinator. Pettine took over a bad defense and made it good. In TN, Schwartz took over the number one defense and made it bad (25th). In Detroit, he took over the 32nd ranked defense and in his first year made them .. 32nd. Edited February 25, 2014 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 tricky. working backwards so the defense improved in Tenn. after bottoming out. and finished very strong . Is he be all end all ? heck no. But he knows the game knows the opponents and he has been in the big league over a decade . I expect Marrone to get all he can from Jim's knowledge base and solve the missing bits . Average is an odd word in the midst of being an NFL coach , much less a head coach . The results might be averaged. but the experience and considerable abilities from these guys rely heavily on circumstances . On any Sunday kinda thinking of sorts. May be Jim is the better fit in the Whaley Marrone puzzle. but geez that Pettine sure was fun to watch. Loved the aggressive disguised defense. Detroit has had some real issues that a head coach maybe should have fixed , but i dont pretend to know the dynamics . We can bet a beer if you like. I will take Jim over Mike. Not fair really because Jim will be springboarding off pettines work to a degree. Bills defense is improved this coming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 illuminati Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The Bills finished 8th in defense this past year. Over the past five years, the Lions D under Schwartz finished 16th, 13th, 23rd, 21st, and 32nd. Schwartz was the HC. Why would you tie the Defensive record on him. It is easy to adapt statistics to everyone's argument. We could easily probably see that the Lions D (under Schwartz as you quote) were better stopping the run than any of the Bills past 4 years defense!!!. I believe the Pettine loss is bad for this team from a continuity perspective, but the Bills couldn't do much about it. They have to move on and Schwartz gives them a credible DC who ran an excellent program back in Tennessee as a DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Pettine's defense was much improved from previous seasons. But there had to be changes coming no matter what, the team was so porous against the run at times (And susceptible against the pass at times too, although that was due more so to injuries) that there had to be some changes coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillies Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 So who do you guys think moves into Schwaatzes job next. His role must be temporary ? I imagine he is here to teach . pass on knowledge and stop the run , and then move back into a HC position. at this point i hope we can have a DC for two years in a row ! Pepper Johnson! Isn't that why he left NE? To become a DC quicker somewhere else than he would have (if at all) in NE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 His role must be temporary ? I imagine he is here to teach . pass on knowledge and stop the run , and then move back into a HC position. I've read this on here many times. I'm having a hard time imagining why ANY NFL team would want to hire Schwartz as HC. His teams were undisciplined and under performing. They had some serious talent, but squandered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I've read this on here many times. I'm having a hard time imagining why ANY NFL team would want to hire Schwartz as HC. His teams were undisciplined and under performing. They had some serious talent, but squandered it. Because there only so many to go around i suppose ? Pepper Johnson! Isn't that why he left NE? To become a DC quicker somewhere else than he would have (if at all) in NE? That is what i read and why he came over. So his defense may be the next generation after Jim . something to look forward too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I don't understand all the nitpicking about Schwartz and where the teams ranked statistically. He will have different players here, and different assistant coaches. Not a single negative mention from the media or anyone else about this hire, in fact, it has been vocally praised. It does not have to be Pettine good/Schwartz bad or Pettine bad/Schwartz good. They are both very good DCs, good enough to get HC jobs. Let's go D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) The Bills finished 8th in defense this past year. Over the past five years, the Lions D under Schwartz finished 16th, 13th, 23rd, 21st, and 32nd. So since the Lions D "under Schwartz" finished 16th, 13th, 23rd, 21st, and 32nd, it really doesn't matter, because the Bills D "under Marrone" finished 8th. So we're good... Edited February 25, 2014 by ricojes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Also, while the team's 30 Takeaways may seem impressive, probably based on the 6th ranking or whatever around there it was, it really was a pretty average figure. The league average was 25.4 but the standard deviation nearly 6, so over 2/3 of the league was between 31.3 and 19.5. More specifically, and narrowed down a bit, 15 teams were between 26 and 31 Takeaways. So how impressive was 30 really? Not all that much except in contrast with other crud seasons. When we consider that 23 of the 30 were INTs it's even more telling. When we consider that of those 23 INTs, 5 were against Flacco, 5 against Geno Smith, and 2 against Henne, QBs on the most anemic offenses in the league, how impressive is it really. I have posted stuff like this too, and people don't get it. They also played over half their games against all the teams that were deadful running the ball, the absolute worst in the NFL, and the Bills STILL FINISHED 28th AGAINST THE RUN!!! LOOK AT THE RANKINGS OF RUSHING THE BALL WHO WE PLAYED AND WE STILL SUCKED!!!! Don't let the door hit you in he rear, Pettine... Atlanta - 32 Jags - 31 Ravens- 30 Browns- 28 Steelers- 27 Dolphins - 26 Dolphins - 26 Saints -25 Cardinals- 22 Edited February 25, 2014 by Security Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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