Marrone's Schwartz for Pettine Plot

[nucci]

Marrone banged hard on the table to hire Pettine in the first place and it was Marrone that put the full court press on him during Pettine's interview process. Sorry, but I can't buy your premise on any level here.

 

GO BILLS!!!

This pretty much says it all.

[FireChan]

 

 

I have posted stuff like this too, and people don't get it. They also played over half their games against all the teams that were deadful running the ball, the absolute worst in the NFL, and the Bills STILL FINISHED 28th AGAINST THE RUN!!!

 

LOOK AT THE RANKINGS OF RUSHING THE BALL WHO WE PLAYED AND WE STILL SUCKED!!!! Don't let the door hit you in he rear, Pettine...

 

Atlanta - 32

Jags - 31

Ravens- 30

Browns- 28

Steelers- 27

Dolphins - 26

Dolphins - 26

Saints -25

Cardinals- 22

 

We didn't play the Cards. The Dolphins couldn't run on us when we shut them out. I don't remember the Saints running all over us, but I could be wrong. The Ravens couldn't run on us, they didn't have one run play in the 3rd quarter.

 

Pettine wasn't the worst.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

I don't understand all the nitpicking about Schwartz and where the teams ranked statistically. He will have different players here, and different assistant coaches. Not a single negative mention from the media or anyone else about this hire, in fact, it has been vocally praised. It does not have to be Pettine good/Schwartz bad or Pettine bad/Schwartz good. They are both very good DCs, good enough to get HC jobs. Let's go D.

 

I'm not opposed to Schwartz at all; I'm just fed up with the critics of Pettine and the 2013 Bills D. It was the best they've had in a long time. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth ...

 

So since the Lions D "under Schwartz" finished 16th, 13th, 23rd, 21st, and 32nd, it really doesn't matter, because the Bills D "under Marrone" finished 8th. So we're good...

 

Oh come on. You know that the Raiders offense when Gruden coached there was a Gruden offense, and that the Gailey-coached Bills ran a Gailey offense. Marrone is an offensive coach and basically let Pettine do whatever he wanted. From everything I've read, the Lions ran a defense designed by Schwartz. To be sure, Gunther Cunnningham has had a long career coordinating defenses, but I have to think that Schwartz had a major say in the design and implementation.

[enlightener]

I blame our improved defense having "close" to last years number on our offense. We had game after game where we would get an INT then go 3 and out thanks to the ridiculous running game we had where CJ would run outside for -3 yards then run up the middle for +1, then EJ would misfire or throw short of the sticks. Our lame running game and spillers lack of intelligence made our defense work twice as hard as it should have, giving up a lot more yards due to being on the field too long.

Edited February 25, 2014 by enlightener

[Ronin]

I have posted stuff like this too, and people don't get it. They also played over half their games against all the teams that were deadful running the ball, the absolute worst in the NFL, and the Bills STILL FINISHED 28th AGAINST THE RUN!!!

 

LOOK AT THE RANKINGS OF RUSHING THE BALL WHO WE PLAYED AND WE STILL SUCKED!!!! Don't let the door hit you in he rear, Pettine...

 

Atlanta - 32

Jags - 31

Ravens- 30

Browns- 28

Steelers- 27

Dolphins - 26

Dolphins - 26

Saints -25

Cardinals- 22

 

Agreed, and there's even more statistical ammo than that.

 

It's what creates all the false hope(s) around here from season to season because most fans, of this team or others, tend to look at cherry-picked stats or view them entirely one-dimensionally.

 

All you can do is lay it out, people are going to believe what they want to believe.

 

What's funny is how things will change next season, like as you said, the caliber of rushing teams, or even passing teams, will improve, will therefore reflect in the stats, yet it will be the fault of Schwartz or whatever else will be the raison de etre.

 

We didn't play the Cards. The Dolphins couldn't run on us when we shut them out. I don't remember the Saints running all over us, but I could be wrong. The Ravens couldn't run on us, they didn't have one run play in the 3rd quarter.

 

Pettine wasn't the worst.

 

Come on now, to put some perspective in this, 11 teams had 120+ rushing yards against us this year. 7 of 16 opponents logged 150+ rushing against us.

 

That's hardly good, particularly when the best offenses didn't even feature any of the top RBs in the league; NE, Cincy, NYJ, Tampa, the Jags, ... not one of those teams had a RB that was even close to 1,000 yards rushing.

 

 

We only played four rushing teams that were among the top-16 rushing teams; NE, Jets, KC, and Carolina.

 

 

 

They averaged 160 ypg rushing against us. If not for that light schedule of rushing opponents, featuring none in the top-5 and only one (Jets, not exactly laden with rushing talent) in the top-8, it would've been FUGLY. Carolina didn't have anything close to a 1,000-yard rusher either and Deangelo Williams is washed up.

Edited February 26, 2014 by TaskersGhost

[YoloinOhio]

Agreed, and there's even more statistical ammo than that.

 

It's what creates all the false hope(s) around here from season to season because most fans, of this team or others, tend to look at cherry-picked stats or view them entirely one-dimensionally.

 

All you can do is lay it out, people are going to believe what they want to believe.

 

What's funny is how things will change next season, like as you said, the caliber of rushing teams, or even passing teams, will improve, will therefore reflect in the stats, yet it will be the fault of Schwartz or whatever else will be the raison de etre.

 

 

 

Come on now, to put some perspective in this, 11 teams had 120+ rushing yards against us this year. 7 of 16 opponents logged 150+ rushing against us.

 

That's hardly good, particularly when the best offenses didn't even feature any of the top RBs in the league; NE, Cincy, NYJ, Tampa, the Jags, ... not one of those teams had a RB that was even close to 1,000 yards rushing.

 

 

We only played four rushing teams that were among the top-16 rushing teams; NE, Jets, KC, and Carolina.

 

 

 

They averaged 160 ypg rushing against us. If not for that light schedule of rushing opponents, featuring none in the top-5 and only one (Jets, not exactly laden with rushing talent) in the top-8, it would've been FUGLY. Carolina didn't have anything close to a 1,000-yard rusher either and Deangelo Williams is washed up.

Right on... it gets very confusing for a non-stats person like myself.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

Agreed, and there's even more statistical ammo than that.

 

It's what creates all the false hope(s) around here from season to season because most fans, of this team or others, tend to look at cherry-picked stats or view them entirely one-dimensionally.

 

All you can do is lay it out, people are going to believe what they want to believe.

 

What's funny is how things will change next season, like as you said, the caliber of rushing teams, or even passing teams, will improve, will therefore reflect in the stats, yet it will be the fault of Schwartz or whatever else will be the raison de etre.

 

 

 

Come on now, to put some perspective in this, 11 teams had 120+ rushing yards against us this year. 7 of 16 opponents logged 150+ rushing against us.

 

That's hardly good, particularly when the best offenses didn't even feature any of the top RBs in the league; NE, Cincy, NYJ, Tampa, the Jags, ... not one of those teams had a RB that was even close to 1,000 yards rushing.

 

 

We only played four rushing teams that were among the top-16 rushing teams; NE, Jets, KC, and Carolina.

 

 

 

They averaged 160 ypg rushing against us. If not for that light schedule of rushing opponents, featuring none in the top-5 and only one (Jets, not exactly laden with rushing talent) in the top-8, it would've been FUGLY. Carolina didn't have anything close to a 1,000-yard rusher either and Deangelo Williams is washed up.

Passing defense is what separates the good defenses from all of the others. It's a passing game now, not a running game, and the Bills' pass defense allowed opposing QB's the third worst passer rating in the league: 74.9. I'm hardly in favor of a poor rushing defense, but it's secondary to pass defense. Check this out: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/06/23/most.important.stat.passer.rating.differential/ . Of course, the Bills' passing offense was horrible last year (75.0), so they weren't able to establish a positive differential.

 

Who finished #1 in passer rating differential this season? The Seahawks. Numbers 2 and 3? Denver and SF. They were the three best teams in the league.

Edited February 26, 2014 by dave mcbride

[Security]

Hate to say it, but with Kyle Williams in the middle, the Bills will never be able to stop the run. He is too small.

 

Year - rank

2013 - 28

2012-31

2011 - 28

2010- 32

2009 - 30

2008 -22 --> most successful recent year, was 7-9 with a good start, no offense at all, Trent got walloped and the season was over

2007 - 25

2006 - 28 --> Kyle Williams first year, and a continued inability to stop the run

2005 - 31

2004 - 7 --> Bills were 9-7. and coincidentally, not stopping the run against the Steelers cost the most recently successful Bills team a playoff spot

 

I don't care that people think it is a passing league. It is not all that. This is still a stop the run, get a key turnover, and play well on third down league as far as defense goes. There are always some differences, like when your QB throws for almost 60 TDs, that overcomes a lot, but what I say still holds true.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Security

[K-9]

Hate to say it, but with Kyle Williams in the middle, the Bills will never be able to stop the run. He is too small.

 

Year - rank

2013 - 28

2012-31

2011 - 28

2010- 32

2009 - 30

2008 -22 --> most successful recent year, was 7-9 with a good start, no offense at all, Trent got walloped and the season was over

2007 - 25

2006 - 28 --> Kyle Williams first year, and a continued inability to stop the run

2005 - 31

2004 - 7 --> Bills were 9-7. and coincidentally, not stopping the run against the Steelers cost the most recently successful Bills team a playoff spot

 

I don't care that people think it is a passing league. It is not all that. This is still a stop the run, get a key turnover, and play well on third down league as far as defense goes. There are always some differences, like when your QB throws for almost 60 TDs, that overcomes a lot, but what I say still holds true.

 

Coincidence and nothing more. KW controls his gap like few DTs in the league. Our troubles vs. the run predate KW and can be directly attributed to craptastic LB play; THAT'S the common thread, not KW.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Security]

Coincidence and nothing more. KW controls his gap like few DTs in the league. Our troubles vs. the run predate KW and can be directly attributed to craptastic LB play; THAT'S the common thread, not KW.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Bills, always thinking doing the same thing will somehow provide you different results. I don't care anymore what people say about Kyle Williams, no one can convince me the Bills would not better replacing him. Kyle Williams is a like a .300 hitter in baseball that drives in 50 runs a year and plays in a power hitting position. He is easily replaceable. Kyle WIlliams is the classic hard to play against, but in reality easy to defend player. Baseball has a stat called WAR, Wins above Replacement, Kyle Williams would be 0. He has no impact and never has.

[K-9]

Bills, always thinking doing the same thing will somehow provide you different results. I don't care anymore what people say about Kyle Williams, no one can convince me the Bills would not better replacing him. Kyle Williams is a like a .300 hitter in baseball that drives in 50 runs a year and plays in a power hitting position. He is easily replaceable. Kyle WIlliams is the classic hard to play against, but in reality easy to defend player. Baseball has a stat called WAR, Wins above Replacement, Kyle Williams would be 0. He has no impact and never has.

 

Film doesn't lie. And if you could provide some video showing him losing his gap control more than a handful of times, I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

On the other hand, there is no shortage of tape showing our LBs losing their gap control, being late, over-pursuing, and flat out not being able to shed blocks in order to make a stop.

 

As far as having no impact, that's just not accurate. Cue up his game against the Steelers in 2010 and that's just for starters.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited February 26, 2014 by K-9

[Security]

Film doesn't lie. And if you could provide some video showing him losing his gap control more than a handful of times, I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

On the other hand, there is no shortage of tape showing our LBs losing their gap control, being late, over-pursuing, and flat out not being able to shed blocks in order to make a stop.

 

As far as having no impact, that's just not accurate. Cue up his game against the Steelers in 2010 and that's just for starters.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

You don't care that the Bills have never even been in the top 20, and mostly in the bottom 5 (in 6 of 8 years) against the run the whole time he has been here? He is the only common denominator. The only logical conclusion is to replace him.

[K-9]

You don't care that the Bills have never even been in the top 20, and mostly in the bottom 5 (in 6 of 8 years) against the run the whole time he has been here? He is the only common denominator. The only logical conclusion is to replace him.

 

The common denominator is crappy LB play. If you closely review game tapes you'll see that's the case.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Security]

The common denominator is crappy LB play. If you closely review game tapes you'll see that's the case.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

OK. Bills have almost had at least 1 All pro level type of linebacker, from Spikes, to Poz, to Alonso. Their most recent best year was because of Marcus Stroud. Depending on Kyle Williams is a losing bet, and Dareus is crazy disappointing thus far.

[K-9]

OK. Bills have almost had at least 1 All pro level type of linebacker, from Spikes, to Poz, to Alonso. Their most recent best year was because of Marcus Stroud. Depending on Kyle Williams is a losing bet, and Dareus is crazy disappointing thus far.

 

I'm not going to quibble over his development as a player between his rookie year and 2010, which is when he "arrived" in the NFL. Once he flattened out the learning curve, he became a dominant player at his position and has been largely recognized as such.

 

We've had a few good LBs in the mix, including Spikes and Fletcher who were around when KW first started cutting his teeth. The others you cite leave a ton to be desired when it comes to stopping the run on a consistent basis. Alonso, for as good a season as he had, was absolutely abused at times. As was Poz for much of his time here. Bottom line is that since 2010, no LB on this team has controlled his gap assignment as well as KW. It's really not a matter for discussion as it's so self-evident and recognized by close observers of the game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Security]

I'm not going to quibble over his development as a player between his rookie year and 2010, which is when he "arrived" in the NFL. Once he flattened out the learning curve, he became a dominant player at his position and has been largely recognized as such.

 

We've had a few good LBs in the mix, including Spikes and Fletcher who were around when KW first started cutting his teeth. The others you cite leave a ton to be desired when it comes to stopping the run on a consistent basis. Alonso, for as good a season as he had, was absolutely abused at times. As was Poz for much of his time here. Bottom line is that since 2010, no LB on this team has controlled his gap assignment as well as KW. It's really not a matter for discussion as it's so self-evident and recognized by close observers of the game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Alright. I guess I will keep watching the Bills get gashed against the run, you focus on WIlliams getting handled pretty regularly. Kyle Williams is NEVER double teamed. That is a problem. He just does not warrant that. It helps to allow single blocking all the way through and allows a line man to block a LB. Kyle WIlliams also gambles a lot. Hence he led the league in jumping offsides last year. His gamble on plays completely takes him out of many.

 

He is easily the most overrated Buffalo Bills player, and maybe even in the entire NFL.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Security

[LB3]

 

He is easily the most overrated Buffalo Bills player, and maybe even in the entire NFL.

 

Good one. I actually thought you were serious until I read that.

Edited February 26, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall

[K-9]

Alright. I guess I will keep watching the Bills get gashed against the run, you focus on WIlliams getting handled pretty regularly. Kyle Williams is NEVER double teamed. That is a problem. He just does not warrant that. It helps to allow single blocking all the way through and allows a line man to block a LB. Kyle WIlliams also gambles a lot. Hence he led the league in jumping offsides last year. His gamble on plays completely takes him out of many.

 

He is easily the most overrated Buffalo Bills player, and maybe even in the entire NFL.

 

This isn't true, either.

 

GO BILLS!!!