The Affordable Care Act II - Because Mr. Obama Loves You All

[B-Man]

When everything is a catastrophe to media and dems, nothing is.

 

Healthcare hysterics are largely being ignored.

 

[GG]

 

I call it bribery ( I have first hand knowledge)

 

You're looking at the micro sample effect of a macro issue.

[Azalin]

 

It's not to push generics, just saying. I'm not against lower drug prices for the 3rd world countries by any means.

 

Equating the industry with the hackneyed stereotype of the mustache-twirling villain is not the way to identify the reasons for the high cost of pharmaceuticals.

 

Sorry to jump in the middle of a good discussion. But I'm surprised no one has ever advocated for a single payer system just for Americans under the age of 18, at least not that I've seen. Can any legislator in good conscience oppose that? I think it's a dystopian horror that parents have to create Go Fund Me's for their sick kids. I can understand personal responsibility at a certain age but it blows my mind kids that need chemo need to do all these fundraisers. Surely we could at least afford health care for every child in America.

 

Is this naive? I honestly don't know. The defense budget is pretty huge, I'll bet we could give every child free health care just from that pool. That sounds like one of those too simple to be true solutions and I'm admittedly not too educated on the finances involved.

 

I would imagine that children are covered on their parents' plan.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

I call it bribery ( I have first hand knowledge)

I also have first hand knowledge, and given that, I assume you feel that all sales and marketing directed at end suppliers is bribery, given the logical extensions of your position.

 

Which is absurd.

 

Yet, it's even more absurd that you feel this is worth discussing as a major driver of pharma costs when compared to our subsidization of costs for the rest of the world.

 

Let me say this as directly as possible: The reason all of Europe and the rest of the socialized West is able to artificially keep the costs of their drugs down is because the US subsidizes those costs. It's not a replicatable model, and if we do as GG suggests (and I happen to agree), drug companies will be forced to raise their costs with other developed nations, which will break their already strained (and in several cases already failing) models.

Sorry to jump in the middle of a good discussion. But I'm surprised no one has ever advocated for a single payer system just for Americans under the age of 18, at least not that I've seen. Can any legislator in good conscience oppose that? I think it's a dystopian horror that parents have to create Go Fund Me's for their sick kids. I can understand personal responsibility at a certain age but it blows my mind kids that need chemo need to do all these fundraisers. Surely we could at least afford health care for every child in America.

 

Is this naive? I honestly don't know. The defense budget is pretty huge, I'll bet we could give every child free health care just from that pool. That sounds like one of those too simple to be true solutions and I'm admittedly not too educated on the finances involved.

If you pull the demographics most likely to be healthy out of the risk pool, you drive up costs for those on the other end of the spectrum.

[Meathead]

house plan getting absolutely scorched in national dialog. rightly so, its an utter piece of crap

 

not to say that the popular opinion is always the right one, but don might have miscalculated by pushing through a known cartoon strip of a plan just to get it to the senate. now the entire thing starts from scratch, which is a monster undertaking. if the senate fails then don is right back where he started, except that now most of the country is pissed at him not just the right wingers

 

a real solution needs to be bipartisan. he might regret starting that process before it even got to the senate. we'll see

Edited May 5, 2017 by Meathead

[TakeYouToTasker]

house plan getting absolutely scorched in national dialog. rightly so, its an utter piece of crap

 

not to say that the popular opinion is always the right one, but don might have miscalculated by pushing through a known cartoon strip of a plan just to get it to the senate. now the entire thing starts from scratch, which is a monster undertaking. if the senate fails then don is right back where he started, except that now most of the country is pissed at him not just the right wingers

 

a real solution needs to be bipartisan. he might regret starting that process before it even got to the senate. we'll see

By national "dialog" [sic], I assume you mean elected Democrats and main stream media outlets who are their mouth piece.

 

You partisan hack.

[DC Tom]

a real solution needs to be bipartisan.

 

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...

 

<breath>

 

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

[HappyDays]

If you pull the demographics most likely to be healthy out of the risk pool, you drive up costs for those on the other end of the spectrum.

Is this supposed to convince me that sick children should suffer if their parents' health insurance doesn't cover their illness?

 

I don't think there should be any co-pays or any money at all coming from the families of these children. I think their care should be a universal coverage system. Unless I'm way off that's not how the current system works, or else there wouldn't be charity events "Help Timmy afford his liver transplant" which is absolutely an everyday occurrence in America.

[Doc Brown]

house plan getting absolutely scorched in national dialog. rightly so, its an utter piece of crap

 

not to say that the popular opinion is always the right one, but don might have miscalculated by pushing through a known cartoon strip of a plan just to get it to the senate. now the entire thing starts from scratch, which is a monster undertaking. if the senate fails then don is right back where he started, except that now most of the country is pissed at him not just the right wingers

 

a real solution needs to be bipartisan. he might regret starting that process before it even got to the senate. we'll see

Even if Senate passes the bill it has to go back to the House and it will be somewhat closer to election time so they're going to have to do a good job of selling the bill.

 

Bipartisanship died in 2010 with the rise of the Tea Party. Now it looks like the left will go the progressive route of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren so good luck with congress working across the aisle.

[GG]

Even if Senate passes the bill it has to go back to the House and it will be somewhat closer to election time so they're going to have to do a good job of selling the bill.

 

Bipartisanship died in 2010 with the rise of the Tea Party. Now it looks like the left will go the progressive route of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren so good luck with congress working across the aisle.

2010, really?

[Azalin]

2010, really?

 

I know, right?

[Doc Brown]

2010, really?

Well, it's been slowly deteriorating for a long time before that, but that's when it turned into pure gridlock.

[B-Man]

Quick reminder for those with blinders on.

 

The Affordable Care Act, deemed "Obamacare" by some, received no Republican votes in either the Senate or the House of Representatives.

 

In the Senate, the bill was passed with a total of 60 votes, or 58 Democratic Party votes and 2 Independent Party votes. 0 - GOP

 

The House passed the legislation with 219 Democratic votes, 0 - GOP

[bbb]

FAKE NEWS:

 

No, the AHCA Doesn’t Make Rape a Preexisting Condition.

 

by Elizabeth Nolan Brown

 

The latest less-than-truthful meme about Republicans' Affordable Health Care Act (AHCA), passed by the U.S. House on Thursday, is that it makes rape a "preexisting condition" for health-insurance purposes.

 

According to a host of women's publications and an army of outraged tweeters, sexual assault and domestic abuse survivors could soon be forced to disclose their attacks to insurance companies, which could subsequently deny them health-insurance coverage because of it.

 

None of this is true. Like, not even a little bit.

 

And the fact it's not just being shared by shady social-media activists and their unwitting dupes but by ostensibly-legitimate media outlets is another sad indictment of press standards these days.

 

Nothing in the new Republican health care bill specifically addresses sexual assault or domestic violence whatsoever.

 

What it does say is that states can apply for waivers that will allow insurance companies, under certain limited circumstances, to charge higher premiums to people based on their personal medical histories—that's it.

 

(States that are granted the waivers must also set up special high-risk insurance pools to try and help defray costs for these people.) Under Obamacare, no such price variances based on preexisting conditions are permitted.

 

{snip}

 

If Democrats and progressives would just stick to actual details of the AHCA, they would still have plenty of material to make Republicans look bad.

 

But once again, that's not enough for them. In their zeal to portray Donald Trump and the current GOP as worse than Nazis, the actual details of the bill don't matter—and if that terrifies a ton of sexual-assault survivors and terrorizes American women in the process, so be it.

 

 

 

More at the link:

 

 

.

 

The rape thing was totally made up?

[Tiberius]

The rape thing was totally made up?

 

 

As Gina Scaramella, executive director of the Boston Area Rape Crisis Center, argued in an Op-ed for The Hill, the so-called “MacArthur-Meadows amendment” lets states waive the Obamacare ban on charging higher premiums for women who have been raped, for example — which is a thing that actually happened pre-Obamacare.

 

“In one widely reported case, a 45-year-old woman met two men at a bar in Florida who bought her a drink. Hours later, she found herself lying by the side of the road with injuries indicating that she had been raped and that the men had spiked her drink. Her doctor prescribed a treatment of anti-viral, post-HIV exposure drugs to protect against HIV transmission,” Scaramella wrote to explain what women who were victims of sexual assault experienced before Obamacare.

 

“When the woman lost her health insurance several months after the attack, she was unable to obtain new insurance due to the health care treatment she had received for the assault,” Scarmella wrote. (That case was first reported on by HuffPost’s Investigative Fund.)

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/under-the-new-healthcare-bill-rape-could-be-a-pre-existing-condition_us_590b3773e4b0bb2d0875ea54

[Doc Brown]

Quick reminder for those with blinders on.

 

The Affordable Care Act, deemed "Obamacare" by some, received no Republican votes in either the Senate or the House of Representatives.

 

In the Senate, the bill was passed with a total of 60 votes, or 58 Democratic Party votes and 2 Independent Party votes. 0 - GOP

 

The House passed the legislation with 219 Democratic votes, 0 - GOP

Dems had the House and the Super majority once Ted Kennedy's replacement was put in of September of '09 making it 60-40 (Lieberman and Sanders were basically Democrats labeled Independents) and that's when the ACA passed. If it wasn't for Lieberman the public option would of been included. Why in the world would you need bipartanship then?

Edited May 5, 2017 by Doc Brown

[Dante]

When everything is a catastrophe to media and dems, nothing is.

 

Healthcare hysterics are largely being ignored.

 

All a show. All fake by the communist Democrats. It's all about control and wealth transference. They could give a shite about babies dying or pre existing conditions or anything else. No rocket science here. Free market and I mean a real free market. Not something heavily regulated by the government because they fug everything up. Free market will do what it always does. Create a better product for cheaper. Stop. If you can't get insurance well I guess you get medicade or a state run thing like here it's Medical. If thats not good enough for you improve your station in life and get with a good provider .

[B-Man]

Another reminder for those with blinders on.......................

 

 

Nothing in the new Republican health care bill specifically addresses sexual assault or domestic violence whatsoever.

What it does say is that states can apply for waivers that will allow insurance companies, under certain limited circumstances, to charge higher premiums to people based on their personal medical histories—that's it.

(States that are granted the waivers must also set up special high-risk insurance pools to try and help defray costs for these people.) Under Obamacare, no such price variances based on preexisting conditions are permitted.

Historically, conditions that could trigger higher premiums or coverage denials have been mostly chronic diseases and syndromes. Some insurance plans also included pregnancy as a preexisting condition, which—contra the current pop narrative—did not mean that any woman who was or had been pregnant would be denied insurance coverage altogether, simply that those applying for new health insurance while currently pregnant might not be eligible for immediate maternity/prenatal care. And for a while, in the 1980s, it was apparently not unheard of for health insurance companies to deny coverage to domestic abuse victims.

By 2009, however, all but eight U.S. states had passed laws directly prohibiting the practice, and as of July 2014, all but six states had.* Even if Obamacare is replaced by the AHCA tomorrow, insurers in 44 states will still be barred by law from considering domestic and sexual abuse a preexisting condition.

Doesn't that mean there's a possibility that those other six states could choose to apply for waivers, and then insurance companies within them could perhaps choose to charge higher premiums for abuse victims? ..............................................As simpletons who read HuffPo suggest

Yes.

They also could choose to charge higher premiums for prior victims of car accidents and ingrown toenails.

It doesn't mean they will.

 

[Meathead]

the free market doesnt work in healthcare mainly bc the insurance companies always end up defacto colluding to cover only the most profitable ppl: the well-off, the well-working, and the healthy

in multiple instances throughout american history, they were caught actually intentionally colluding to that end. but even when they dont do it intentionally, thats the way it ends up as policies always coalesce to the natural and obvious heart of the profit curve. everyone else gets left with scraps at best

what you end up with are armies of duplicated administrators sucking money from a system that becomes increasingly non-competition oriented

thus healthcare simply is not well suited for reliance on the profit motive as a self-regulating entity

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

the free market doesnt work in healthcare mainly bc the insurance companies always end up defacto colluding to cover only the most profitable ppl: the well-off, the well-working, and the healthy

 

in multiple instances throughout american history, they were caught actually intentionally colluding to that end. but even when they dont do it intentionally, thats the way it ends up as policies always coalesce to the natural and obvious heart of the profit curve. everyone else gets left with scraps at best

 

what you end up with are armies of duplicated administrators sucking money from a system that becomes increasingly non-competition oriented

 

thus healthcare simply is not well suited for reliance on the profit motive as a self-regulating entity

You &#33;@#&#036;ing retard.

 

LEARN ABOUT INSURANCE.

[DC Tom]

You !@#$ing retard.

 

LEARN ABOUT INSURANCE.

 

[/dev/null]

You !@#$ing retard.

 

LEARN ABOUT INSURANCE.

Think like a Progressive

 

You have something

I want something

 

Why aren't you paying for the thing I want?

[Joe Miner]

You !@#$ing retard.

 

LEARN ABOUT INSURANCE.

He did &#33;@#&#036; his insurance agent once.

[Tiberius]

John Kasich on Bill Mahler. Sounds like a Democrat. That idea that health care s a right is probably one of the best things Obama helped ingrain in the US consciousness

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nzEklhnkOx4

the free market doesnt work in healthcare mainly bc the insurance companies always end up defacto colluding to cover only the most profitable ppl: the well-off, the well-working, and the healthy

 

in multiple instances throughout american history, they were caught actually intentionally colluding to that end. but even when they dont do it intentionally, thats the way it ends up as policies always coalesce to the natural and obvious heart of the profit curve. everyone else gets left with scraps at best

 

what you end up with are armies of duplicated administrators sucking money from a system that becomes increasingly non-competition oriented

 

thus healthcare simply is not well suited for reliance on the profit motive as a self-regulating entity

Yup! Hard to explain that to people too partisan to listen to anything outside their of their bubble, though.

[B-Man]

When the GOP Isn’t Murdering People, It’s Exploiting Rape Victims .........

by David French

 

If yesterday’s accusation that yesterday Republicans voted to “sentence millions of Americans to death” takes the gold in the hyperbole Olympics, then the claim that the GOP just rendered rape a pre-existing condition comes in with a strong silver. The argument goes something like this: A woman who is raped or sexually assaulted suffers physical and emotional injuries. If the GOP bill passes, those injuries could constitute pre-existing conditions that wouldn’t be covered under certain circumstances. So rape itself is now a pre-existing condition.

 

I was set to respond, but my friend Ben Shapiro beat me to it:

 

So, let’s parse this. According to the leftist media, if you suffer an injury in a terrible situation, the situation itself is now a pre-existing condition.

 

In other words, these headlines could just have easily read, “In Trump’s America, Car Crashes Are Pre-Existing Conditions,” or “Under The New Health Care Bill, Soccer Accidents Could Be A Pre-Existing Condition.” The bill itself says that pre-existing conditions are pre-existing conditions. Nowhere does it give a list of pre-existing conditions including “rape” or “sexual assault,” because these are activities leading to injury, not actual injuries.

 

 

As Ben notes, “The debate has now been so skewed that we think the government can magically have health insurance cover rape – which doesn’t even make sense.

{snip}

 

One of the things that’s most galling about the Obamacare debate is the stubborn insistence from all too many activists on the Left that we can have it all. We can have universal, affordable, high-quality health care, and the reasons why we don’t are due to the greed, heartlessness, and hatefulness of our political opponents. Santa Claus is real, they argue, and the only thing keeping him from shimmying down into your house is that spiked grate the GOP put at the top of the chimney.

 

But the GOP is used to this by now, and so are GOP voters. When it comes to arguments over health care, there truly is nothing new under the sun:

 

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/447375/when-gop-isnt-murdering-people-its-exploiting-rape-victims

[ALF]

John Kasich on Bill Mahler. Sounds like a Democrat. That idea that health care s a right is probably one of the best things Obama helped ingrain in the US consciousness

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nzEklhnkOx4

 

 

 

I thought Kasich was the only presidential candidate that could of had bipartisan support from Congress. That is how he got things done as Ohio Gov. He was by far my favorite , but that's history .

 

Chairman of the House Budget Committee

In 1997, Kasich rose to national prominence after becoming "the chief architect of a deal that balanced the federal budget for the first time since 1969"—the Balanced Budget Act of 1997

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kasich

Edited May 6, 2017 by ALF

[Chef Jim]

John Kasich on Bill Mahler. Sounds like a Democrat. That idea that health care s a right is probably one of the best things Obama helped ingrain in the US consciousness

 

 

 

I'll take The Left STILL Doesn't Know Why Hillary Lost for $1,000,000 Alex.

[grinreaper]

John Kasich on Bill Mahler. Sounds like a Democrat. That idea that health care s a right is probably one of the best things Obama helped ingrain in the US consciousness

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nzEklhnkOx4

 

Yup! Hard to explain that to people too partisan to listen to anything outside their of their bubble, though.

Two things: The way you mangle the English language makes me believe that you would lose out to a rock in an IQ contest. The other thing is if health care is a right, what else is? Wealth? Happiness? A nice tan?

[Meathead]

John Kasich on Bill Mahler. Sounds like a Democrat. That idea that health care s a right is probably one of the best things Obama helped ingrain in the US consciousness

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nzEklhnkOx4

 

Yup! Hard to explain that to people too partisan to listen to anything outside their of their bubble, though.

 

and yet im the retard

[Meathead]

We can have universal, affordable, high-quality health care, and the reasons why we don’t are due to the greed, heartlessness, and hatefulness of our political opponents.

 

 

 

remove the hatefulness and that parts true

 

on the hc front its republicans i whole heartedly disagree with. it is indeed greed and heartlessness that drives its main healthcare policy

 

i wouldnt say hatefulness bc for most i dont think it goes that far. but it is a rigid worship of the idea that money equals worthiness, that we must let each individual keep as many pennies as they possibly can so that we can determine their worthiness

 

very sick. petty and selfish. deeply disappointing

 

theyve had many chances to deliver on hc and they never have. at least not nationally, its literally never. so what the hell else am i supposed to believe

 

right wingers suck ass on healthcare. and since the gop is now driven by the fear of being 'primaried', that party sucks the most serious ass on hc right now

[Bronc24]

Just an honest question....how much does an average American pay for comprehensive health insurance (without pre-existing conditions)?

[ALF]

 

and yet im the retard

 

No you are not Meathead. I respect your point of view , keep posting

[Bronc24]

I also have first hand knowledge, and given that, I assume you feel that all sales and marketing directed at end suppliers is bribery, given the logical extensions of your position.

 

Which is absurd.

 

Yet, it's even more absurd that you feel this is worth discussing as a major driver of pharma costs when compared to our subsidization of costs for the rest of the world.

 

Let me say this as directly as possible: The reason all of Europe and the rest of the socialized West is able to artificially keep the costs of their drugs down is because the US subsidizes those costs. It's not a replicatable model, and if we do as GG suggests (and I happen to agree), drug companies will be forced to raise their costs with other developed nations, which will break their already strained (and in several cases already failing) models.

If you pull the demographics most likely to be healthy out of the risk pool, you drive up costs for those on the other end of the spectrum.

I'm interested what failing models you are referring to. Not questioning the validity of your statement, just curious about specifics.

[Meathead]

thanks alf. i know

 

not hard considering. theyve built a ѕhit chamber here where empty insults win. not hard to ignore

 

it is annoying tho. our culture is in a bad time where we are literally manufacturing conflict. its little fkd up silos like the dominant element in this forum that are at the root

 

this is exactly the kind of baseless abuse environment we need to resist to move out of this self-created ѕhithole

 

here it the ѕhit tsunami that rules

 

resist the asshollery!

Edited May 6, 2017 by Meathead

[TakeYouToTasker]

I've always been curious how someone could assert that they have a "right" to something which is a commodity with a finite supply, which is 100% reliant on others to produce.

 

I've yet to hear an answer which is sufficient.

 

Anyone care to try?

[ALF]

I've always been curious how someone could assert that they have a "right" to something which is a commodity with a finite supply, which is 100% reliant on others to produce.

 

I've yet to hear an answer which is sufficient.

 

Anyone care to try?

 

That's a good question for DC Tom

 

Time to lean on the smartest guy in the room.

Edited May 6, 2017 by ALF

[Tiberius]

I've always been curious how someone could assert that they have a "right" to something which is a commodity with a finite supply, which is 100% reliant on others to produce.

 

I've yet to hear an answer which is sufficient.

 

Anyone care to try?

Put sufficient resources forward to ensure supply gets as close to meeting demand as possible.

 

 

 

That was difficult...

[reddogblitz]

I've been really busy the last few days and don't have it in me to read through a bunch of garbage in order to maybe finally get to the truth. So, can somebody tell me what is being talked about on social media - about rape being a precondition?

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

This what irritates me about this kind of stuff. The problem with the high cost of health care in this country goes WAY beyond insurance. Don't worry about pharma companies raising the price to ridiculous heights for no other reason than profit. Never mind how much money they and the big mail order prescription companies give us (Congress. My senator got $250,000.00 last year).

 

Look over here, rape is a pre existing condition. Death panels.

 

That's why this stuff will never change.

 

One dollar. One vote.

Edited May 6, 2017 by reddogblitz

[bbb]

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

This what irritates me about this kind of stuff. The problem with the high cost of health care in this country goes WAY beyond insurance. Don't worry about pharma companies raising the price to ridiculous heights for no other reason than profit. Never mind how much money they and the big mail order prescription companies give us (Congress. My senator got $250,000.00 last year).

 

Look over here, rape is a pre existing condition. Death panels.

 

That's why this stuff will never change.

 

One dollar. One vote.

 

I'm so sick of trying to sift through crap to try to find out the real deal on things. All these posts in my social media feeds about rape, etc. - and all I knew was that it was wrong without even knowing anything.

[ALF]

2018 Congressional election will be a referendum on healthcare and Trump imo