Meathead Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 The biggest BS of this whole thing is the Republicans calling this health care reform. Its not, its a tax cut/health care cut and their deep pocket donors are driving it for financial gain. Blood money? agreed I'm starting to wonder if there might be enough traction on universal healthcare to get things happening. I'm actually seeing more conservatives warm up to the idea lately. ultimately its the only permanent solution. it should have been implemented decades ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 In theory it's very practical. A healthy society makes for a more efficient and productive society. But with the amount of money flowing into congress, and everyone needing to make profit off of every step, I'm wary of it actually working in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Tom, you are a pre existing condition, lol boring dickicitis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 and completely ignores the occurrence of random events that frequently make ppl sick to no fault of their own whatsoever bad idea by the fraud chef How does that ignore those random events? You get insurance to protect against those random events. Or you self insure with a very tax friendly HSA. Once again it's all in the education and marketing. Oh, so we should treat all insurance the same even though they are very different All insurance? No just health and life insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 and completely ignores the occurrence of random events that frequently make ppl sick to no fault of their own whatsoever bad idea by the fraud chef What are you even talking about? Seeing as kids are covered on their parents insurance until 26 (I believe that is what it is now) they would be on insurance up to that point where they can make the choice to cover themselves or not. It would be up to them if they want to risk it or not. With the way medical stuff is nowadays I personally cant see someone not wanting to be on insurance but if they choose not to that is their right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Wow. Trump is really happy about this. Who's going to tell him it still has to pass the Senate and the House again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) no it is not their right. by choosing to not be on insurance until you get sick you are stealing from the system its like a game. random events just happen. that doesnt matter to a lot of you bc it hasnt happened to you yet. should we let you wait until it does, or until you get signs its coming before you participate? or do we do what is going to happen WAAAY more often under doncare, do we let those hit with random events go bankrupt even when their random event is treatable and they could return to productive lives? hell the fk no everybody participates. everybody is covered Edited May 4, 2017 by Meathead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) no it is not their right. by choosing to not be on insurance until you get sick you are stealing from the system its like a game. random events just happen. that doesnt matter to a lot of you bc it hasnt happened to you yet. should we let you wait until it does, or until you get signs its coming before you participate? or do we do what is going to happen WAAAY more often under doncare, do we let those hit with random events go bankrupt even when their random event is treatable and they could return to productive lives? hell the fk no everybody participates. everybody is covered What, other than your own personal decision making, prevents you from acquiring health insurance prior to one of these "random events"? Also, spare me your "I've got a gun to your head" altruism. Edited May 4, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 What, other than your own personal decision making, prevents you from acquiring health insurance prior to one of these "random events"? Also, spare me your "I've got a gun to your head" altruism. So your basis for arguing the merits of HC are not neceesarily actuarial theory, math, quantitative results but rather idealism.....sounds just like our GOP. Not setting a set of outome goals and determing the best path to get there....but developing policy on a set of ideals and surprised when the outome is what was desired.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 What, other than your own personal decision making, prevents you from acquiring health insurance prior to one of these "random events"? Also, spare me your "I've got a gun to your head" altruism. Until recently, pre-existing conditions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 So your basis for arguing the merits of HC are not neceesarily actuarial theory, math, quantitative results but rather idealism.....sounds just like our GOP. Not setting a set of outome goals and determing the best path to get there....but developing policy on a set of ideals and surprised when the outome is what was desired.... My basis is that individuals should be free to make whatever decisions they want, poor or otherwise, and that the government should not legitimize poor decisions by forcing other individuals to subsidize the poor outcomes created by those poor decisions. Until recently, pre-existing conditions... What prevents someone from making the decision to purchase insurance prior to contracting a condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 I can't believe the GOP is this stupid...or desperate. Why do they want this bill out there being debated? Aside from libertarian cranks this is a big loser to most people. On to the Senate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 I can't believe the GOP is this stupid...or desperate. Why do they want this bill out there being debated? Aside from libertarian cranks this is a big loser to most people. On to the Senate! They just want to say they fulfilled a campaign promise and a promise they have made daily for the past 7 years......and now they can go home for 2 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 I'm starting to wonder if there might be enough traction on universal healthcare to get things happening. I'm actually seeing more conservatives warm up to the idea lately. Then those aren't conservatives. Until recently, pre-existing conditions... You can't insure against a condition that already exists. That is not insurance. People need to stop regarding it as such before the problem can be properly addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 I've said this from the beginning of this whole debate. Health insurance should be taught about, priced and marketed just as life insurance is. You are not required to have life insurance. How many people/families have been devastated by the untimely death of a bread winner however we don't require it. Same with health insurance. Life insurance is priced based on your age and health and that's essentially it. Why not do the same with health insurance. You get it when you're young and you lock in your cost for the rest of your life or the term of the policy. You need coverage until your 65 when Medicare kicks in. So a 25 year old gets a 40 year health insurance policy. He pays a fixed monthly premium just like life insurance. It contractually cannot increase. You wait until you're 40 to lock in a 25 year policy and you have high blood pressure it's more expensive. The key is educating and marketing to people. I have no idea if it would work but it's something I've thought a lot about. Why are you using common sense? how are the rich gonna get richer with this theory? The "normal" people will have the same as the elite people...this can't happen. BTW: One of the best posts I've seen in a long, long, long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 So your basis for arguing the merits of HC are not neceesarily actuarial theory, math, quantitative results but rather idealism.....sounds just like our GOP. Not setting a set of outome goals and determing the best path to get there....but developing policy on a set of ideals and surprised when the outome is what was desired.... well said They just want to say they fulfilled a campaign promise and a promise they have made daily for the past 7 years......and now they can go home for 2 weeks exactly they are trying to erase some of the embarrassment of the original failure with a political gesture. on to the senate where it stands no chance as it is. so this step is nothing but fluff more wasted fkg time on bullѕhit this crap that we consistently get from the gop on hc is disgusting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) well said exactly they are trying to erase some of the embarrassment of the original failure with a political gesture. on to the senate where it stands no chance as it is. so this step is nothing but fluff more wasted fkg time on bullѕhit this crap that we consistently get from the gop on hc is disgusting Never underestimate the Republicans ability to screw people over. The winners of this bill are insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, the rich, upper class income owners without preexisting conditions, young healthy people, and large employers. The losers are poor people, those with preexisting conditions, and older Americans who have to purchase health care as their premiums will skyrocket without the individual mandate. There is also a fine detail in the bill a lot of people are overlooking and it's if you get your insurance through work insurance companies can drop you if a catastrophic health crisis happens. Edited May 4, 2017 by Doc Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Pre existing conditions are the biggest red herring in the discussion. Insurance portability is a far more important item than covering pre-existing conditions, which by then not insurance, but a giveaway. If you have true portability, then it's another incentive for people to get coverage early when they're healthy and then there would be no such thing as a pre-existing condition. My son got a pre existing conditions when he was 4 years old. That said, I also have a pre existing condition and have had insurance through various employers for 32 years and have never been turned down and my pre existing condition has been fully covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 well said exactly they are trying to erase some of the embarrassment of the original failure with a political gesture. on to the senate where it stands no chance as it is. so this step is nothing but fluff more wasted fkg time on bullѕhit this crap that we consistently get from the gop on hc is disgusting Well sure, if you believe you are entitled to make slaves of others in order to fund your wish lists via barrel of a gun force, sure. But, if you believe in the inherent value of freedom as the best condition for man, then your nothing but an immoral fascist, which you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 The ACA was all smoke and mirrors. It provided so called insurance that for all practical purposes (except for the outliers) does nothing for people supposedly covered. Sky high deductibles and premiums costing ridiculous monthly amounts means they have insurance without actual health care. It obviously wasn't and isn't working for the insurers either. For people to criticize the GOP for trying to come up with a better plan just shows how partisan they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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