Alex Carrington.... i don't get it

MarkyMannn · December 24, 2013

He has shown to be a very good run stopper, very good pass deflector and a decent pass rusher PLUS a very good player on special teams (FG block unit). Just because he doesn't have 10+ sacks/year doesn't mean he isn't good.

With a build up like that, he should have more than 9 starts for a career. "Very good" players can be pro bowl candidates, not bench sitters.

That other teams mention him says a lot.

Seriously? C'mon................

BillnutinHouston · December 24, 2013

What is not stated here is that besides Carrington, we have been injury-free on the front 7. It is easy to point how his absence was not missed but one injury on the front 4 would have been a big problem. I havent seen enough of any backup to feel comfortable . AC is home grown, hard worker while not spectacular.

I would favor signing him to a reasonable contract worthy of a good backup.

That's a solid point.

KOKBILLS · December 24, 2013

With a build up like that, he should have more than 9 starts for a career. "Very good" players can be pro bowl candidates, not bench sitters.

Seriously? C'mon................

No offense...But do you watch the games or just read the stat sheet?...

There is no possible way that any Bills fan paying any attention to what is actually going on (on the field) could not have come away impressed by Carrington in 2012...And this year, Pettine put him in the line-up as a starting DE from day #1, and the current coaching staff did nothing but rave about Carrington...

He was a a little slow to develop early on in his career...Coming out of Arkansas St as a 3rd Round pick, and having 2 different Defensive Coordinators in his first three years in the NFL did not help his progress...And both of those DC's were absolutely terrible...The first one (Edwards) tried to make him an OLB in the 3-4 which is obviously not his natural position, and forced him to try to keep a weight that was far less than his body-type...I think all things considered it's understandable Carrington took a bit of time...But Alex came on big time in 2012 and was clearly one of the Bills best players on Defense that year...There were games where he was in the backfield constantly...Don't know how you missed that...He's a very solid D-Lineman, and if he comes back healthy he will be entering the prime of his career...You can't judge the kid by his early years...This organization was a complete cluster-you-know-what under Edwards and Wanny on D...Still...Once Carrington became a full time D-lineman, and filled in, he blossomed big-time... B-)

Utah John · December 24, 2013

I'm with the "(1) Hope Carrington is on the team next year but (2) Eugene Parker" group on this one.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Utah John

JM57 · December 24, 2013

Whats interesting is I think Charles gives us more playmaking ability the guy from Canada......u resign Carrington u take playing time away from Charles......

Signing Branch to that extenstion was great......I really thought we were gonna lose him

Charles is a DT and Carrington a DE in this system, are they not?

DL depth is necessary. Corbin Bryant and Charles have been OK, I guess. But there was a TD drive vs. Atlanta where I remember seeing Bryant, Charles and one other backup DL on the field and Atlanta ran a hurry-up to prevent substitutions. They got absolutely gashed.

Carrington is a solid rotational player, and hopefully can be re-signed at a reasonable rate to have better depth in cases like that.

BUNCH OF MULARKEY · December 24, 2013

It's a shame because I thought he was poised for a very big year in the new system. Another unlucky break that contributed to our disappointing record.

I remember a preseason interview with some defensive lineman and they referred to carringtons as the "strongest guy on the team"

CSBill · December 24, 2013

BmarvB, on 23 December 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

I'm thinking they should at least give him (and Troupe) a fair chance to compete in training camp before cutting them both loose or working out a trade for whatever they can get for either or both.

"Troup was cut this preseason. No one picked him up."

Good! Now we can really get him cheap, and then think how good that DLine will be!

Carrington was the best D lineman last year to me. I thought he was really coming on as a force. Seeing as the Bills vaunted 6-9 defense still sucks against the run, I think the Bills should be interested in anyone who has shown ability to stop it.

this!

John from Riverside · December 24, 2013

I thought they were playing Carrington inside in Pettine's system

By the way....im not AGAINST Carrington being resigned.....I hate when we draft talent only to have it leave.......but that Eugene Parker man........

JM57 · December 24, 2013

I thought they were playing Carrington inside in Pettine's system

By the way....im not AGAINST Carrington being resigned.....I hate when we draft talent only to have it leave.......but that Eugene Parker man........

I thought that Branch took his spot in the starting lineup when Carrington got injured. I know they list both Dareus and K. Williams as DT and Mario as OLB. I want to say Branch/Carrington are called DE when they post starting lineups and such

Wayne Fontes · December 25, 2013

Bill Parcells says: Just a guy.

ganesh · December 25, 2013

I think he was playing pretty well at the end if last year. But I agree with you. I really don't see him as some irreplaceable piece. Honestly, I don't think he will be a Bill next year.

I think Hughes has already replaced him as the Pass Rusher. I don't think the Bills will sign Carrington. The question is: How long has Hughes been signed.

Thurman#1 · December 25, 2013

With a build up like that, he should have more than 9 starts for a career. "Very good" players can be pro bowl candidates, not bench sitters.

Seriously? C'mon................

Poor logic.

It's still dependent on circumstances. For Carrington, he wasn't especially good for his first year or two. He was a developmental player who has now developed. He started the first three games this year and would have started a bunch more if not injured. He was absolutely playing very well in camp and up until he was injured.

As always, price matters, but the Bills really like Carrington, and the reason is simply that he was playing very well for us before the injury.

I'm with the "(1) Hope Carrington is on the team next year but (2) Eugene Parker" group on this one.

Worth remembering that one of the things Parker is known for is understanding extremely well what the market is for his players. He asks a lot, but not more than he actually ends up getting. Carrington, unlike Byrd and Jason Peters, isn't in position to ask for break-the-bank money, not coming off the injury and not with his lack of playing time.

Parker researches the heck out of what comparable players are getting. He'll ask as much as he can get, but likely won't ask more than he can get around the league.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Thurman#1

Thurman#1 · December 25, 2013

Here's a Pro Football Focus article on Carrington's 2012 performance:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/16/secret-superstar-alex-carrington/

And he had improved quite a bit and was playing better at the beginning of this year.

littlelouie · December 25, 2013

I would re sign Carrington if he would take a reasonable contract. He is a good back up. But if he wants starter money I would let him walk. He's a back up and has to realize it for me to want him back. Bottom line I wouldn't over pay him especially since the Bills have locked up Allen Branch.

3rdand12 · December 25, 2013

Here's a Pro Football Focus article on Carrington's 2012 performance:

https://www.profootb...lex-carrington/

And he had improved quite a bit and was playing better at the beginning of this year.

Nice article . thanks for the find . And i think that about sums it up. Carrington is step up from Charles and Bryant . No Offense to either of them but they are both raw and Alex was just getting his footing when injury occurred I dont think he has much leverage as far as contracts go . And i sure hope we sign him up .

Hapless Bills Fan · December 26, 2013

He hasn't really excelled in this defense, something many others have. Since he serves no obvious role on defense, he's probably gone at the end of the season.

Um, he went on season ending IR in mid-September

I would re sign Carrington if he would take a reasonable contract. He is a good back up. But if he wants starter money I would let him walk. He's a back up and has to realize it for me to want him back. Bottom line I wouldn't over pay him especially since the Bills have locked up Allen Branch.

This, except I'm OK with starter money. Parker is his agent and is likely to try for star money tho.

Worth remembering that one of the things Parker is known for is understanding extremely well what the market is for his players. He asks a lot, but not more than he actually ends up getting. Carrington, unlike Byrd and Jason Peters, isn't in position to ask for break-the-bank money, not coming off the injury and not with his lack of playing time.

Parker researches the heck out of what comparable players are getting. He'll ask as much as he can get, but likely won't ask more than he can get around the league.

Parker's research sometimes seems to slur over a few distinctions. Overall, you're right in that he usually gets his asking price, but I'm not sure it's always to the long term benefit of his players.

Dibs · December 26, 2013

I think Hughes has already replaced him as the Pass Rusher. I don't think the Bills will sign Carrington. The question is: How long has Hughes been signed.

Hughes is signed through 2014.....becomes a FA in 2015. If the pattern continues of re-signing desired players within their last contract year continues, I would imagine that we will rework his deal sometime during next season.

Thurman#1 · December 26, 2013

Parker's research sometimes seems to slur over a few distinctions. Overall, you're right in that he usually gets his asking price, but I'm not sure it's always to the long term benefit of his players.

His players would disagree with you. As would I. Crabtree's the only one I can think of, and can we be sure it was Parker who wanted to do that and not Crabtree himself?

Outside of the Crabtree holdout, where has he caused problems for his players? Just the opposite, He's caused a lot of problems for teams not willing to pay market value, but he hasn't hurt his players interest.

What distinctions does Parker's research slur over? Peters got what he wanted. Byrd almost certainly will to if the Bills don't sign him. You said his players generally get his asking price, so in what way is he hurting the long-term interests of his players?

Parker is one of the few - the only - agents who signs lifetime contracts with his players. He stays with them and represents them even after their playing days when their earning potential is a great deal less. For his players, Parker is a good guy.

I think Hughes has already replaced him as the Pass Rusher. I don't think the Bills will sign Carrington. The question is: How long has Hughes been signed.

Those two aren't filling the same role at all. All you have to do is look at them to know that.

Hughes is 6'2" and 254 pounds.

Carrington is 6'5" and 301 pounds.

Carrington is a lineman who can play physical with just about anyone. He's quick for a lineman, but he can play DL or 3-4 DE. Hughes is playing as a lineman, a 4-3 DE, but he's essentially a designated pass rusher who gets taken out for run downs. Carrington won't get taken out on run downs.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Thurman#1

vincec · December 26, 2013

Those two aren't filling the same role at all. All you have to do is look at them to know that.

Hughes is 6'2" and 254 pounds.

Carrington is 6'5" and 301 pounds.

Carrington is a lineman who can play physical with just about anyone. He's quick for a lineman, but he can play DL or 3-4 DE. Hughes is playing as a lineman, a 4-3 DE, but he's essentially a designated pass rusher who gets taken out for run downs. Carrington won't get taken out on run downs.

He should though. He has not been very good vs there run and he is certainly not better against it than Branch.

So if Branch plays on run downs and Hughes on passing downs, where does that leave Carrington? Depth?

San Jose Bills Fan · December 26, 2013

So if Branch plays on run downs and Hughes on passing downs, where does that leave Carrington? Depth?

Exactly which is why there's probably less than a 50% chance that he returns.

I think some team out there desperate for D-linemen will offer him borderline starter's money.

Especially in view of Parker's relationship with the Bills, I think Carrington's departure is a fait accompli.

NoSaint · December 26, 2013

I think...Had he stayed healthy...Alex might have played his way into a big enough deal to assure he priced himself out of Buffalo...But now that's completely up in the air...I definitely like Carrington...Maybe a bit more than others around here...I think had he played all year, once he got used to this new Defense, he would have been a really big piece down the stretch...And still can be if he comes back...I'm thinking the best thing for him may be to take a one year deal with the Bills if he does not get an outrageous offer elsewhere...If Carrington comes back I think the Bills are 100% set at D-Line, and they can cross that off the needs list...I'm really hoping he comes back to Buffalo and stays healthy next year...Can't have enough athletes on that D-Line...And Carrington at 100% is a solid player who can make plays in the backfield from time to time...That being said I'm quite sure the extension to Branch was an insurance policy in case Carrington moves on...

im definitely a carrington fan, was just replying to the OPs assertion that there was some sort of pedestal he was being put on. i dont think thats the case at all. hes a very good contributor who has proven he has a spot in the league. due to a variety of circumstances almost wholly out of his control, he hasnt been able to prove what that spot really is though. in this case i dont think he will be a guy paid on potential, as much as one that is punished for lack of production come contract time. for the bills, thats not a bad thing though as he would be a low risk high reward signing potentially. at the very least i think his floor come contract time is being a good value even if he amounts to just a role player.

thebandit27 · December 26, 2013

If Parker is smart, he's going to advise his client that his best chance for a huge pay day is to sign a one-year "prove it" deal--somewhere--and have a monster season in 2014.

Now, if I were Alex, I'd want to give myself the best chance to flourish in that scenario, which I think would be with players, coaches, and surroundings that are familiar.

I have no trouble believing that the team can replace him if he leaves; I think it's in his best interest, long-term, to sign a 1-year deal here and play his butt off.

Just my 1 cent...

NoSaint · December 26, 2013

If Parker is smart, he's going to advise his client that his best chance for a huge pay day is to sign a one-year "prove it" deal--somewhere--and have a monster season in 2014.

Now, if I were Alex, I'd want to give myself the best chance to flourish in that scenario, which I think would be with players, coaches, and surroundings that are familiar.

I have no trouble believing that the team can replace him if he leaves; I think it's in his best interest, long-term, to sign a 1-year deal here and play his butt off.

Just my 1 cent...

unless theres a surprise in the market and some other coach has fallen in love with him in another city, or he has some sort of tie we are unaware of - it makes total sense to go that approach. and as much parker hate as there is here, he tends not to be an idiot and would likely be able to see the value there, assuming there werent back or side stories that we arent aware of. as far as we know the coaches seem to like him, he seems to be ok with buffalo (i dont recall anything suggesting otherwise, beyond the fact that weve asked him to do A LOT)

mountainwampus · December 26, 2013

Megahand doesn't just block kicks, he bats a lot of passes. He knows how to clog throwing lanes and get his arms in the way of the QB's ideal pass. I've seen him stuff runs while being double teamed. Lots of details that don't show up on the stat sheet. He's a keeper. Pettine needs DT/DE tweeners like him and Branch.

John from Riverside · December 26, 2013

One thing do have going for us with Carrington is this IS a good defense now....with the potential to be even more dominant next year......take Branch for example who is a quality starting player.......would we have had a shot at signing him before this year?

Defensive players will WANT to play on this defense

ganesh · December 27, 2013

He should though. He has not been very good vs there run and he is certainly not better against it than Branch.

So if Branch plays on run downs and Hughes on passing downs, where does that leave Carrington? Depth?

+1. You always put your Best Players on the field.

vincec · December 27, 2013

I'd like for the Bills to try and keep him as a rotational player who still has a high upside. Offer him a contract similar to Branch's.

San Jose Bills Fan · December 28, 2013

I'd like for the Bills to try and keep him as a rotational player who still has a high upside.

Offer him a contract similar to Branch's.

That's way too much money for Carrington IMO.

Buffaloed in Pa · December 28, 2013

He`s not needed....IF his agent and he,want crazy money. Seeya Alex.

Hapless Bills Fan · December 28, 2013

His players would disagree with you. As would I. Crabtree's the only one I can think of, and can we be sure it was Parker who wanted to do that and not Crabtree himself?

Outside of the Crabtree holdout, where has he caused problems for his players? Just the opposite, He's caused a lot of problems for teams not willing to pay market value, but he hasn't hurt his players interest. What distinctions does Parker's research slur over? Peters got what he wanted. Byrd almost certainly will to if the Bills don't sign him. You said his players generally get his asking price, so in what way is he hurting the long-term interests of his players?

Fair questions, and in many ways touches on intangibles.

I'm sure the players think he's a good guy, and not intending to imply that I think he does anything but represent his players best interest, as he sees it.

In many ways it comes down to the question "what is the players best interest, overall" or "is it always in the best interest of players to go for the biggest contract they can get, to "get his asking price"?

You point out one of the factors yourself- an NFL career is relatively short, and after-football earnings depend a lot upon the name recognition, the "brand", a player builds.

For one example of what I mean, Dan Dierdorf had huge name recognition in St Louis which led to a lucrative and prolonged post-career income as a St Louis advertising shill and enterprenuer. For a player to "jump teams" following the $$ may be a good thing for their short-term football earning potential, but may hamper their ability to "build their brand" and enable their post-career earnings, especially if they are not able to be as successful or have as much of a name with the new team.

Crabtree, whom you bring up, is one example. I'm sure it's what Crabtree wanted to do, which begs the question "why did he want to do it?" I don't think we can slough off Parker's influence there too easily, especially as Deion Saunders, who was a "confidante", is also a noteable Parker client. It took Crabtree until 2012 to have the kind of season expected of a #10 overall draftpick. Did holding out for the contract Parker thought he deserved hurt his short-term football income, no. Did it hurt his ability to make a name and build his "brand" to position himself as a top receiver in the league and win endorsement deals etc, quite plausibly.

Did it really help Steven Jackson, in terms of brand, to void the last year of his Rams contract and jump to the Falcons? Again, you can ask "was it what Jackson wanted to do?" but I don't think you can slough off the influence of the "lifetime agent" Parker "regarded as a good guy" by the players. It got him a new 3 year contract with a worse team than the Rams, as it turned out, and instead of riding his 8 years of St Louis "name recognition" for being one of the few amazing players on a mediocre team into home-town endorsement fervor a la Dierdorf, he now seems poised to slither into mediocre post-NFL obscurity, making headlines only as "is Steven Jackson still an elite talent?"

Third potential example, did it help Tyson Jackson to hold out for KC in 2009? It took him until this year to stop wearing the "bust" tag. DId it hurt him to hold out from his rookie training camp? Again, intangibles - team around him, scheme, coaching - but it surely didn't help him. And that's 3 years of "brand building" that's lost.

Distinctions he blurs - free safety money vs strong safety money comes to mind.

I'm sure Byrd can get the $$ Parker wants somewhere in the league. Will it be to his long term benefit over sticking with a Buffalo team that appears on the verge of building a nationally ranked D, and building a brand in Buffalo? Hard to tell.

My point is that "earning the most $$ as an NFL player" and "long term benefit of the player" may not be as synchronous as Parker and his clients appear to believe.

As for arguing my point any more: Take it or leave it

San Jose Bills Fan · December 28, 2013

My point is that "earning the most $$ as an NFL player" and "long term benefit of the player" may not be as synchronous as Parker and his clients appear to believe.

Good point however it's counterbalanced by the adage that "one in the hand is better than two in the bush."

RJ (not THAT RJ) · December 28, 2013

Hopeful really nailed it in his comment. I think that is the choice that many players face. Nate Clements (not a Parker client, of course) is another example of a player who made a ton of bucks, but did not build much of a brand. I hope he invested well...

Hopeful's post below [my quoting function is busted… again! Thanks, Safari!]