Why isn't anyone talking about Stevie?

[BADOLBILZ]

Stevie gets criticized (heavily by some Bills fans) for three things: excessive celebrations in the end zone, dropping passes and injuries. I think all issues are highly overblown.

 

From my recollection (correct me if I'm wrong), Stevie has drawn exactly TWO celebration penalties over his 6 seasons in the NFL. The Plaxico Burress-Gun imitation, and the Happy New Year writing on his t-shirt a few weeks later. Both happened 2 seasons ago, and we haven't seen ANY excessive celebrations since. Meanwhile, Victor Cruz can do a salsa dance practically every week and Gronkowski can imitate a British guard, and get no criticism.

 

The injury criticism is even more ridiculous. Until 2013, Stevie hasn't missed a single start because of injury. He's a very tough player, who guts it out for his team. Fred Jackson does the same thing - gets injured and plays hurt every other week, But he gets praised because of it.

 

Dropped passes? Probably the only legitimate issue with Stevie. But the truth is, everyone drops passes (even Jerry Rice and Calvin Johnson). Stevie has had 2 big ones in his career - Pittsburgh 2010 and New York 2011. It's not like he's got a chronic dropping problem. He's just had the unfortunate luck to lose them at very memorable times.

 

The dead ball fouls have been or could have been costly....like the ridiculous taunting penalty in the Jets game this year......but the issue with them isn't the actual yardage/impact of the plays it is what it says about his lack of discipline. He really put Gailey is an awful spot in that NE game with his utter lack of respect for the man.

 

Stevie has had a lot of did not finish (DNF) games.......which leads to the belief that he is more hurt than injured and that he is in fact, not that tough. I found it very interesting that he was held out last week. I think his reputation for being too hurt to practice has reached a point where you will start to see him being sat out by the coaching staff when he doesn't practice. I think the days of him deciding when he feels like practicing(or training) are coming to an end. They have to really, you can't have a non-superstar dictating terms to the coaching staff and expect the team to abide by the same rules. The receiving corps still isn't great but it is much more capable than it has been at any point in his time in Buffalo.

 

To me, the biggest drop of Stevie's career was at the end of the Cinci game in 2011. The Bills had just blown a big lead and were driving to win the game and Stevie had an opportunity to keep the final drive alive and he dropped a pass you would expect a good receiver to come down with...killing the drive and the Bills lost the game, dropping them from the ranks of the unbeaten. He just repeatedly comes up small in the clutch. First half? Target him all you can. Late in a close, meaningful game? No.

Edited November 25, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[Section242]

The dead ball fouls have been or could have been costly....like the ridiculous taunting penalty in the Jets game this year......but the issue with them isn't the actual yardage/impact of the plays it is what it says about his lack of discipline. He really put Gailey is an awful spot in that NE game with his utter lack of respect for the man.

 

Stevie has had a lot of did not finish (DNF) games.......which leads to the belief that he is more hurt than injured and that he is in fact, not that tough. I found it very interesting that he was held out last week. I think his reputation for being too hurt to practice has reached a point where you will start to see him being sat out by the coaching staff when he doesn't practice. I think the days of him deciding when he feels like practicing(or training) are coming to an end. They have to really, you can't have a non-superstar dictating terms to the coaching staff and expect the team to abide by the same rules. The receiving corps still isn't great but it is much more capable than it has been at any point in his time in Buffalo.

 

To me, the biggest drop of Stevie's career was at the end of the Cinci game in 2011. The Bills had just blown a big lead and were driving to win the game and Stevie had an opportunity to keep the final drive alive and he dropped a pass you would expect a good receiver to come down with...killing the drive and the Bills lost the game, dropping them from the ranks of the unbeaten. He just repeatedly comes up small in the clutch. First half? Target him all you can. Late in a close, meaningful game? No.

 

Except he caught that ball. Much like Goodwin vs KC.

[dave mcbride]

The dead ball fouls have been or could have been costly....like the ridiculous taunting penalty in the Jets game this year......but the issue with them isn't the actual yardage/impact of the plays it is what it says about his lack of discipline. He really put Gailey is an awful spot in that NE game with his utter lack of respect for the man.

 

Stevie has had a lot of did not finish (DNF) games.......which leads to the belief that he is more hurt than injured and that he is in fact, not that tough. I found it very interesting that he was held out last week. I think his reputation for being too hurt to practice has reached a point where you will start to see him being sat out by the coaching staff when he doesn't practice. I think the days of him deciding when he feels like practicing(or training) are coming to an end. They have to really, you can't have a non-superstar dictating terms to the coaching staff and expect the team to abide by the same rules. The receiving corps still isn't great but it is much more capable than it has been at any point in his time in Buffalo.

 

To me, the biggest drop of Stevie's career was at the end of the Cinci game in 2011. The Bills had just blown a big lead and were driving to win the game and Stevie had an opportunity to keep the final drive alive and he dropped a pass you would expect a good receiver to come down with...killing the drive and the Bills lost the game, dropping them from the ranks of the unbeaten. He just repeatedly comes up small in the clutch. First half? Target him all you can. Late in a close, meaningful game? No.

 

Johnson actually caught that ball. It was as clear as day on the replay. On that play, the replay system failed. I don't know that wasn't overturned. He didn't juggle it and he had both hands underneath it.

Edited November 25, 2013 by dave mcbride

[thebandit27]

Johnson actually caught that ball. It was as clear as day on the replay. On that play, the replay system failed. I don't know that wasn't overturned. He didn't juggle it and he had both hands underneath it.

 

I remember that as well; it was extremely frustrating.

[BADOLBILZ]

Johnson actually caught that ball. It was as clear as day on the replay. On that play, the replay system failed. I don't know that wasn't overturned. He didn't juggle it and he had both hands underneath it.

 

My perception was that it was accurately ruled an incomplete pass. Stevie made the mistake of letting it get into his body and it looked like a trap. Replay looked the same. That is my recollection, and in all fairness I rarely blame officiating so perhaps those who are constantly blaming things on officiating won't see things the same way I do. This is the NFL and it is what the record says it is. My concern going into big games is always that Stevie will get too hyped up and hurt the team. Like that infamous Jets game where he drew the penalty before hafltime and set up a Jets score and then dropped a potential TD pass at the 25 and a sure TD pass in the endzone on the last drive. That was just Stevie at his most ugly. I think he just implodes under self imposed pressure. I'd like to see him get over it, but not at the expense of more losses.

Edited November 25, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[dave mcbride]

My perception was that it was accurately ruled an incomplete pass. Stevie made the mistake of letting it get into his body and it looked like a trap. Replay looked the same. That is my recollection, and in all fairness I rarely blame officiating so perhaps those who are constantly blaming things on officiating won't see things the same way I do. This is the NFL and it is what the record says it is. My concern going into big games is always that Stevie will get too hyped up and hurt the team. Like that infamous Jets game where he drew the penalty before hafltime and set up a Jets score and then dropped a potential TD pass at the 25 and a sure TD pass in the endzone on the last drive. That was just Stevie at his most ugly. I think he just implodes under self imposed pressure. I'd like to see him get over it, but not at the expense of more losses.

 

That was key play in retrospect, but at the time the Bills had a TD lead and it was a garden variety third down play. I don't blame the refs for the loss - the Bills D failed to make stops afterward, and that is what decided the game - but that was a catch. The Bills still needed to move the ball after that completion (assuming it had been ruled as such), and obviously, we don't know whether they would have.

 

The basic point is that while you can blame him for the first drop in the Jets loss (definitely not the second one though - that was a bad pass) and Steelers games, it's unfair to blame him for the Cincy game.

Edited November 25, 2013 by dave mcbride

[QB Bills]

My perception was that it was accurately ruled an incomplete pass. Stevie made the mistake of letting it get into his body and it looked like a trap. Replay looked the same. That is my recollection, and in all fairness I rarely blame officiating so perhaps those who are constantly blaming things on officiating won't see things the same way I do. This is the NFL and it is what the record says it is. My concern going into big games is always that Stevie will get too hyped up and hurt the team. Like that infamous Jets game where he drew the penalty before hafltime and set up a Jets score and then dropped a potential TD pass at the 25 and a sure TD pass in the endzone on the last drive. That was just Stevie at his most ugly. I think he just implodes under self imposed pressure. I'd like to see him get over it, but not at the expense of more losses.

Ya, man...I mean, who could forget that drop at the end of the game against Carolina this year.

 

Or how about when Fitzpatrick threw (another) horrible late INT last year against the Colts, and Stevie DIDN'T race back and strip and recover the ball from the DB.

 

Saying any player who plays professional football for a living isn't tough shows you either have a personal grudge, or you have no idea about the sport itself. In either case, you're completely out to lunch here, but nice try.

[mjt328]

 

The dead ball fouls have been or could have been costly....like the ridiculous taunting penalty in the Jets game this year......but the issue with them isn't the actual yardage/impact of the plays it is what it says about his lack of discipline. He really put Gailey is an awful spot in that NE game with his utter lack of respect for the man.

 

Stevie has had a lot of did not finish (DNF) games.......which leads to the belief that he is more hurt than injured and that he is in fact, not that tough. I found it very interesting that he was held out last week. I think his reputation for being too hurt to practice has reached a point where you will start to see him being sat out by the coaching staff when he doesn't practice. I think the days of him deciding when he feels like practicing(or training) are coming to an end. They have to really, you can't have a non-superstar dictating terms to the coaching staff and expect the team to abide by the same rules. The receiving corps still isn't great but it is much more capable than it has been at any point in his time in Buffalo.

 

To me, the biggest drop of Stevie's career was at the end of the Cinci game in 2011. The Bills had just blown a big lead and were driving to win the game and Stevie had an opportunity to keep the final drive alive and he dropped a pass you would expect a good receiver to come down with...killing the drive and the Bills lost the game, dropping them from the ranks of the unbeaten. He just repeatedly comes up small in the clutch. First half? Target him all you can. Late in a close, meaningful game? No.

 

What exactly was "ridiculous" about the taunting penalty against the Jets? From my TV set, I couldn't hear what was said. Maybe your ears are better than mine. Kyle Williams also got a taunting penalty this season. Was it equally as ridiculous?

 

I already mentioned the celebration penalties. Stevie has gotten 2 flags in his whole career for excessive celebration, and both occurred 2 years ago. I think it's fair to say he learned from that mistake.

 

There is absolutely NO evidence to support your accusations about Stevie's injuries. Since his injuries are of the "muscle pull" variety, doctors will say the best cure is rest. AKA sitting out practice.

 

And oh yeah... Stevie caught that pass against the Bengals.

Edited November 25, 2013 by mjt328

[dave mcbride]

My perception was that it was accurately ruled an incomplete pass. Stevie made the mistake of letting it get into his body and it looked like a trap. Replay looked the same. That is my recollection, and in all fairness I rarely blame officiating so perhaps those who are constantly blaming things on officiating won't see things the same way I do. This is the NFL and it is what the record says it is. My concern going into big games is always that Stevie will get too hyped up and hurt the team. Like that infamous Jets game where he drew the penalty before hafltime and set up a Jets score and then dropped a potential TD pass at the 25 and a sure TD pass in the endzone on the last drive. That was just Stevie at his most ugly. I think he just implodes under self imposed pressure. I'd like to see him get over it, but not at the expense of more losses.

 

Re the Jets game -- yes, he made a terrible drop, but the pass into the end zone was the definition of uncatchable. It's fair to criticize him, but let's not overdo it. He got open on that play and Fitzpatrick just flat out missed him. Start watching at the 3:20 mark: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011112700/2011/REG12/bills@jets#menu=highlights&tab=recap .

[BADOLBILZ]

Re the Jets game -- yes, he made a terrible drop, but the pass into the end zone was the definition of uncatchable. It's fair to criticize him, but let's not overdo it. He got open on that play and Fitzpatrick just flat out missed him. Start watching at the 3:20 mark: http://www.nfl.com/g...ights&tab=recap .

 

Yeah that drop at the 25 was horrendous in and of itself. Especially in light of what had transpired earlier in the game. I mean you are going to make fun of an accident that caused a man to do jail time......ruined his career.......and then you come out and choke at the end of the game. Brutal. It's also a bit concerning when he doesn't take accountability for his mistakes. He blamed God for his Pitt drop, denied that he dropped a potential TD in that Jets game and intially denied that his critical drop in the opener was a drop at all.

 

And yes, asking your star receiver to make a difficult catch in the clutch is also entirely out of the question. That we have never seen from Stevie. It happens as often as a Torrel Troup strip-sack.

 

I like the guy upthread that wants to give him credit for securing that frozen rope to win the game versus Carolina. If he drops that hot air balloon nobody forgives him.....not even Bills Mafia/upperdeck jumpers. I have to admit watching that play transpire from my seat in the stadium I thought for sure Stevie would drop that ball or drift out of bounds or something awfully stupid. When I saw it was him open.....one word came to mind......no. Just have not trust in him whatsoever.

 

All this said......I don't dwell on Stevie......I know there have been more drops and more issues with Stevie........I think he dropped 4 or 5 passes in that infamous Steelers game......which for the uneducated is A LOT......but he is what he is. He is a talented player, he can get open and make big plays but the guy brings a lot of baggage IMO. At some point he needs to quiet the critics by not being what people say he is......a ball dropper.....a nagging injury issue......and a distraction. They actually played a quiet, controlled game against the Jets last week and Stevie wasn't in there. Maybe he just can't handle big games.

[thebandit27]

Yeah that drop at the 25 was horrendous in and of itself. Especially in light of what had transpired earlier in the game. I mean you are going to make fun of an accident that caused a man to do jail time......ruined his career.......and then you come out and choke at the end of the game. Brutal. It's also a bit concerning when he doesn't take accountability for his mistakes. He blamed God for his Pitt drop, denied that he dropped a potential TD in that Jets game and intially denied that his critical drop in the opener was a drop at all.

 

And yes, asking your star receiver to make a difficult catch in the clutch is also entirely out of the question. That we have never seen from Stevie. It happens as often as a Torrel Troup strip-sack.

 

I like the guy upthread that wants to give him credit for securing that frozen rope to win the game versus Carolina. If he drops that hot air balloon nobody forgives him.....not even Bills Mafia/upperdeck jumpers. I have to admit watching that play transpire from my seat in the stadium I thought for sure Stevie would drop that ball or drift out of bounds or something awfully stupid. When I saw it was him open.....one word came to mind......no. Just have not trust in him whatsoever.

 

All this said......I don't dwell on Stevie......I know there have been more drops and more issues with Stevie........I think he dropped 4 or 5 passes in that infamous Steelers game......which for the uneducated is A LOT......but he is what he is. He is a talented player, he can get open and make big plays but the guy brings a lot of baggage IMO. At some point he needs to quiet the critics by not being what people say he is......a ball dropper.....a nagging injury issue......and a distraction. They actually played a quiet, controlled game against the Jets last week and Stevie wasn't in there. Maybe he just can't handle big games.

 

Talk about vastly over-stating your point.

 

That game you refer to occurred in 2010; Johnson had 8 drops the entire season.

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2010/

 

Very, very, very unlikely that 5 of them occurred in a single game.

 

Everyone drops passes...look at who's above him in that season alone: Welker, Wayne, Marshall, Owens, Austin...even the best drop passes.

 

If you look at 2013, Stevie has 41 receptions and 5 drops on 79 targets, which equates to a drop percentage of 6.3%.

Right behind him on the list is Wes Welker, who has 65 receptions and 6 drops on 96 targets (also equating to 6.3% drop percentage).

Just ahead of them is Brandon Marshall, who has 74 receptions and 7 drops on 115 targets (6.1%).

 

People like to throw out the "drops" issue as though it's telling about Stevie, when in actuality, if you look at the numbers, it isn't.

 

Case-in-point: did you see the end of the TB-Detroit game yesterday? Stafford threw a ball to Calvin Johnson, who had the ball easily in his grasp at the 5 yard-line with less than 60 seconds remaining and Detroit down 3 points. We're talking about the best WR in the game and one of the best to ever play...and he not only dropped an easy catch at a critical moment, but also allowed the ball to bounce from his grasp directly to the DB for the game-sealing INT.

 

Is Megatron not clutch now?

 

Drops happen; Stevie's a good WR that helps this team...I cannot understand what anyone who says differently is watching.

[stony]

My perception was that it was accurately ruled an incomplete pass. Stevie made the mistake of letting it get into his body and it looked like a trap. Replay looked the same. That is my recollection, and in all fairness I rarely blame officiating so perhaps those who are constantly blaming things on officiating won't see things the same way I do. This is the NFL and it is what the record says it is. My concern going into big games is always that Stevie will get too hyped up and hurt the team. Like that infamous Jets game where he drew the penalty before hafltime and set up a Jets score and then dropped a potential TD pass at the 25 and a sure TD pass in the endzone on the last drive. That was just Stevie at his most ugly. I think he just implodes under self imposed pressure. I'd like to see him get over it, but not at the expense of more losses.

 

Please don't blame him for that one. Your other points are sound logic, blaming him for the bolded seems like you have a agenda against him.

[BADOLBILZ]

Talk about vastly over-stating your point.

 

That game you refer to occurred in 2010; Johnson had 8 drops the entire season.

 

http://www.sportingc...ats/drops/2010/

 

Very, very, very unlikely that 5 of them occurred in a single game.

 

Everyone drops passes...look at who's above him in that season alone: Welker, Wayne, Marshall, Owens, Austin...even the best drop passes.

 

If you look at 2013, Stevie has 41 receptions and 5 drops on 79 targets, which equates to a drop percentage of 6.3%.

Right behind him on the list is Wes Welker, who has 65 receptions and 6 drops on 96 targets (also equating to 6.3% drop percentage).

Just ahead of them is Brandon Marshall, who has 74 receptions and 7 drops on 115 targets (6.1%).

 

People like to throw out the "drops" issue as though it's telling about Stevie, when in actuality, if you look at the numbers, it isn't.

 

Case-in-point: did you see the end of the TB-Detroit game yesterday? Stafford threw a ball to Calvin Johnson, who had the ball easily in his grasp at the 5 yard-line with less than 60 seconds remaining and Detroit down 3 points. We're talking about the best WR in the game and one of the best to ever play...and he not only dropped an easy catch at a critical moment, but also allowed the ball to bounce from his grasp directly to the DB for the game-sealing INT.

 

Is Megatron not clutch now?

 

Drops happen; Stevie's a good WR that helps this team...I cannot understand what anyone who says differently is watching.

 

Google "Stevie Johnson 5 drops" and listen to Bill Cowher claim that was Stevie's 5th drop of the game. Does that number somehow change your opinion? You knew he was awful that day, right?

 

That said, the issue is that he drops notable passes late in games and doesn't make notable grabs late in games. He did secure that uncontested TD pass against Carolina but his track record in the clutch is sh*t.

[PO'14]

As a Big Bills fan and a HUGE STEVIE FAN ( ), that drop in the CINCY game was huge. My crusade against him started after that game. Until he is traded or released by the Bills, my crusade will go on! Enjoy the 17 second footage..Obviously the ground helps him complete that pass...What a loser!

[BADOLBILZ]

As a Big Bills fan and a HUGE STEVIE FAN ( ), that drop in the CINCY game was huge. My crusade against him started after that game. Until he is traded or released by the Bills, my crusade will go on! Enjoy the 17 second footage..Obviously the ground helps him complete that pass...What a loser!

 

Gotta finish the catch. Love that grainy, inconclusive angle though. It's always the officials fault, Bills fans.

[PO'14]

and lets not kid ourselves about Stevie...He is OCHO CINCO 2.0. The king of hype sold by himself...Making rap videos, twitter comments, dressing like Chan, Why so serious, stupid penalties and so on. Including the Big Drops in pressure situations, lets not forget what his biggest problem on the field is: HE HAS NO IDEA WHERE THE FIRST DOWN MARKER IS! How many times has he ran a route 1 yard short of the first down markers....MANY EFFING TIMES!

[Heels20X6]

Gotta finish the catch. Love that grainy, inconclusive angle though. It's always the officials fault, Bills fans.

 

Whatever suits your ill-informed crusade I guess. And look who's decided to join you. Judged by the company you keep...

 

Where's DC Tom when you need him?

[PO'14]

Whatever suits your ill-informed crusade I guess. And look who's decided to join you. Judged by the company you keep...

 

Where's DC Tom when you need him

Bills players look at each other in the dressing room. Only one guy cant spot the cancer on the team. That player had a long meeting with Marrone today. Do you really think they were playing tiddly winks? I would bet the farm that Marrone said shape up or ship out you Prima Donna POS!

[machine gun kelly]

people are crazy. SJ13 may be the best receiver the Bills have ever had. Could you imagine Kelly as his QB?

 

I know..... Fantasy football. I have a buddy who is into that. Fantasy football doesn't always equate to reality football.

 

Exactly. He has been playing with subpar QB's since he started and now has a growing QB. With all of that, and being double covered as we had no other targets, he still captures 1000 yrd seasons back to back.

 

He is one of the only wide receivers who made Revis Island not Revis Island. Look at Calvin yesterday against Tampa. Revis owned arguably the best WR in the League look average. SJ's change of direction makes him win. He is actually like Revis on the other side of the ball. He is not the fastest, nor a freak of nature, but between the ears he has it. Let it go guys. The team will NEVER let him go when he is that productive.

 

How about we finish this season strong, have a third great draft, add a couple of good pieces or depth in free agency who are high value, not expensive as we did this year with Lawson, Hughes, and a couple of years ago our lineman, and Chandler. Keep our people which is the key, and watc us win. You guys can continue to send these messages, but this is their playbook and I agree with it.

[BADOLBILZ]

Whatever suits your ill-informed crusade I guess. And look who's decided to join you. Judged by the company you keep...

 

Where's DC Tom when you need him?

 

Why is it ill-informed? I said he had 5 drops in the Pittsburgh game. He did. PFF had him as having 13 drops in 2010 and 5 in that game. If it was 3 or 4, why would it matter? Still a bad performance. There is NO GOOD CLUTCH FOOTAGE of Stevie. It doesn't exist. You can't just drop every tough pass in the clutch and some very easy ones as well......and not get called out for lacking clutch ability. He is what he has been. I would like to see it change but I am certainly not expecting it 6 years into his career.

[Maury Ballstein]

 

 

Why do you spew such nonsense as in he's not so tough ? Meanwhile he's out there making plays hurt.

 

 

Badolbeelz is tougher than Stevie. Cool stories you tell.

 

 

He's such a lowlife thug with personality issues because he said Happy New Year ! Got it.

 

[thewildrabbit]

After reading a bunch of this, I'm thinking most of the posters have no real clue as to what its like to perform as an athlete and not be able to do their job because of an injury.

 

The guy has been hurt all year and has been tough enough to go out on the field and attempt to play thru the bad back, the groin pull, and other assorted injuries.

 

Stevie is still the best WR the Bills have had in a long time

Edited November 25, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[dave mcbride]

As a Big Bills fan and a HUGE STEVIE FAN ( ), that drop in the CINCY game was huge. My crusade against him started after that game. Until he is traded or released by the Bills, my crusade will go on! Enjoy the 17 second footage..Obviously the ground helps him complete that pass...What a loser!

 

This is foolish. The ball can touch the ground as long as the receiver maintains control -- which he clearly did. Thanks for posting this though - it was even more clearly a catch than I thought. As for blaming the refs, please. No one is saying that this one play cost the Bills the game. It was an important play in retrospect, but it's no crime to point out a poor call by an official. And pointing this out isn't an attempt to excuse Johnson for the bad drops. If you're going to make an argument, though, make sure that you don't distort the record to fit an agenda.

Edited November 25, 2013 by dave mcbride

[PO'14]

These are your perceptions. Stevie's a playmaker w back to back 1000 yard seasons in reality.

 

Love seeing the tbd'rs who poop on players when they are hurt. Solid move now, but then you look dumb in 2 weeks when SJ posts the 7 catch 120 yard 2 td game.

 

Carry on though.

7 CATCHES, 120 YARDS AND 2 TDS....... IT COULD HAPPEN, MOST LIKELY WHEN THE BILLS ARE DOWN BY 21 POINTS!

 

AND NO ONE TALKS ABOUT HOW THE BILLS DIDNT SKIP A BEAT WITHOUT HIM AGAINST THE JETS!

[3rdand12]

werent the Jets playing the run most of the game ? and our passing success was vertical .

not fair to criticise Stevie yet.

Let see who gets the looks from Manuel against Atlanta and who gets the passes tossed. And then who catches said passes.

It's a new dynamic and even that is changing during the season game to game .

I just cant see that having on the field Stevie isnt an asset to Hackett at this point . He gets attention from defenses still.

This whole year , to a player is a wait and see imho.

One thing i am sure sure of Marrone wants 100% from all the receivers whether route running, blocking off the line or the second level , regardless of who gets the ball. All the effort all the time. That why Easely still has a job . Effort = success on Marrones court .

Stevie needs to stay focused on that.

[Beerball]

OK, that's enough deleted posts for one day. All y'all either find a way to get your point across without the name calling or take it to PM. Thanks.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

Looks like you're congratulating yourself on your own joke.

 

Am I reading that right?

 

 

 

Because we know repetitively posting about Stevie isn't the same as dwelling on him.

 

SJB, I assume that you know that I do enjoy reading your posts. What I am missing here is the importance of you and Badol being in full agreement on this, or any other topic.

 

You both make good cases. SJ has good numbers, gets open, and plays hurt. Otoh, he has defied coaches and hurt the team with narcissistic stupidity, dropped clutch passes, and does not have a true skillset for a "#1 receiver.

 

The best part of this board from where I sit is to read dialogue about my team and get different takes from people who know and care about the Bills. Badol is not coming from left field with his take. It is well thought and legit.

 

It really doesn't matter if you and him agree. In fact, the discourse is the best part about TSW.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Bill from NYC

[LB3]

It's hard to understand the vitriol for our best receiver of the last 4 years. A guy who by what I've seen and read is a good and generous member of the community. A star (I accept many will disagree on his star status) that WANTED to stay in Buffalo and help return our beloved Bills to greatness. He's done it with inconsistency at QB which has to be incredibly tough. I love SJ and his passion for this team, and I hope he retires a Bill. That said, a small part of me hopes he gets traded to the Pats and Brady makes him look like the best WR of all time.

Edited November 26, 2013 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall

[Bill from NYC]

He's done it with inconsistency at QB which has to be incredibly tough. I love SJ and his passion for this team, and I hope he retires a Bill. That said, a small part of me hopes he gets traded to the Pats and Brady makes him look like the best WR of all time.

 

Remember that Fitz (a genius) and SJ were scrubs together and practiced quite a bit with second teams. Fitz is who he is, but he and SJ did have time to develop a chemistry. This matters imo.

 

I appreciate the ability that SJ has, particularly in terms of getting open. But I will also assert that if SJ is your best receiver, you need another receiver. This is jmo.

[BADOLBILZ]

It's hard to understand the vitriol for our best receiver of the last 4 years. A guy who by what I've seen and read is a good and generous member of the community. A star (I accept many will disagree on his star status) that WANTED to stay in Buffalo and help return our beloved Bills to greatness. He's done it with inconsistency at QB which has to be incredibly tough. I love SJ and his passion for this team, and I hope he retires a Bill. That said, a small part of me hopes he gets traded to the Pats and Brady makes him look like the best WR of all time.

 

Stevie is who he is. Just because you don't like every aspect of a players game doesn't mean you don't have an appreciation for other aspects of the players game.

 

There are people who can't relate to Stevie, so they don't like some of the things he does. Then there are people who relate to Stevie and they probably ignore a lot of the problems Stevie has.

 

I don't really care about either. He has strengths and he has weaknesses. Denying either is pointless.

 

Here is my advice to you as a Bils fan: root for the laundry. Players come and go.

[LB3]

 

 

Remember that Fitz (a genius) and SJ were scrubs together and practiced quite a bit with second teams. Fitz is who he is, but he and SJ did have time to develop a chemistry. This matters imo.

 

I appreciate the ability that SJ has, particularly in terms of getting open. But I will also assert that if SJ is your best receiver, you need another receiver. This is jmo.

 

Good point on the chemistry. I can understand people like yourself not liking SJ as a number one. I disagree, but it's a fair opinion. I just don't get those that hate him like he personally wronged them.

 

I also think with Woods and now Goodwin emerging, we have a very promising WR core that can get it done. Maybe none of them will ever be a good number one in a lot of people's eyes, but they all look like they could be dominant 2's and I think that would be more than enough. I also think Goodwin could become a Desean Jackson type #1. Below is a great quote from him that was on BuffaloBills.com:

 

"Over the course of the games I have played I have seen DBs start to back up, so hopefully I'm gaining a little respect. If I'm not I will," said Goodwin. "Eventually everybody will respect me."

 

That last line gives me chills. This kid has confidence and a chip on his shoulder. That's a great recipe for success.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

Good point on the chemistry. I can understand people like yourself not liking SJ as a number one. I disagree, but it's a fair opinion. I just don't get those that hate him like he personally wronged them.

 

I also think with Woods and now Goodwin emerging, we have a very promising WR core that can get it done. Maybe none of them will ever be a good number one in a lot of people's eyes, but they all look like they could be dominant 2's and I think that would be more than enough. I also think Goodwin could become a Desean Jackson type #1. Below is a great quote from him that was on BuffaloBills.com:

 

"Over the course of the games I have played I have seen DBs start to back up, so hopefully I'm gaining a little respect. If I'm not I will," said Goodwin. "Eventually everybody will respect me."

 

That last line gives me chills. This kid has confidence and a chip on his shoulder. That's a great recipe for success.

 

If Goodwin can stretch the field and hit homeruns, this will help the possession type receivers. That said, a very good quarterback is needed to make it all happen, let alone a solid, talented OL. Would I appreciate a big time wr? Absolutely.

 

The talent and coaching on the defensive side now exists on this team (although another pass rusher never hurts). If EJ is the real deal, he can get us into the playoffs.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dibs]

Remember that Fitz (a genius) and SJ were scrubs together and practiced quite a bit with second teams. Fitz is who he is, but he and SJ did have time to develop a chemistry. This matters imo.

 

I appreciate the ability that SJ has, particularly in terms of getting open. But I will also assert that if SJ is your best receiver, you need another receiver. This is jmo.

 

I tend to think that the next 5 weeks should better determine the direction of thought on this.

 

If over the rest of the season, Woods & Goodwin show themselves to be likely legitimate talents.....then obtaining another WR will effectively be seeing some of that talent spending extra time on the bench. Obtaining a legitimate TE on the other hand will mean that we will have more overall talent on the field at any one time(3 talented WRs & a talented TE).

 

If Woods & Goodwin excel, it would be a waste of resources to add another WR into the mix when we could have greater improvement at other areas on the team.....and in the case of the TE position, potentially fill the role desired of a better WR.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Dibs

[thewildrabbit]

I tend to think that the next 5 weeks should better determine the direction of thought on this.

 

If over the rest of the season, Woods & Goodwin show themselves to be likely legitimate talents.....then obtaining another WR will effectively be seeing some of that talent spending extra time on the bench. Obtaining a legitimate TE on the other hand will mean that we will have more overall talent on the field at any one time(3 talented WRs & a talented TE).

 

If Woods & Goodwin excel, it would be a waste of resources to add another WR into the mix when we could have greater improvement at other areas on the team.....and in the case of the TE position, potentially fill the role desired of a better WR.

I have to think Woods, Goodwin, Hogan are all way better then the WR corps on the roster in previous years (besides Stevie), even "Mr Maydrop" Graham is better

 

Personally, I just can't wait until this current corps is fully healthy and get into rhythm, timing, sync with EJ. Because just imagine, If Stevie can constantly get open being the ONLY WR on the field worth a damn. Then consider what can happen when teams try and double Stevie, as the match ups will start getting insane should the Bills go to 4 WR sets. The Bills will have more then one deep threat and a QB that can actually deliver the ball deep down field.

 

Either you will get LBers trying to cover some WR's or they will go into nickle & dime coverage and allow the running game to make big plays. Should the Bills stay in the hurry up / no huddle then you will see LBers trying to cover those WR's.

 

Its a getting to be a good time to be a Bills fan

[San Jose Bills Fan]

SJB, I assume that you know that I do enjoy reading your posts. What I am missing here is the importance of you and Badol being in full agreement on this, or any other topic.

 

You both make good cases. SJ has good numbers, gets open, and plays hurt. Otoh, he has defied coaches and hurt the team with narcissistic stupidity, dropped clutch passes, and does not have a true skillset for a "#1 receiver.

 

The best part of this board from where I sit is to read dialogue about my team and get different takes from people who know and care about the Bills. Badol is not coming from left field with his take. It is well thought and legit.

 

It really doesn't matter if you and him agree. In fact, the discourse is the best part about TSW.

 

I love reading your stuff too, Bill.

 

My only point was that I believe Stevie, despite all his flaws, is a hard worker and I seriously doubt that his injury history is due to laziness.

 

The discussion about his character, his hands, etc. have nothing to do with me.

 

I think that he tries hard and that he cares.

[bmur66]

Nevermind his uncanny ways of getting open and his toughness.....Just what did Stevie say to get that Jets CB so rattled in their first game? Never seen a reciever have that kind of impact before.

[C.Biscuit97]

I love reading your stuff too, Bill.

 

My only point was that I believe Stevie, despite all his flaws, is a hard worker and I seriously doubt that his injury history is due to laziness.

 

The discussion about his character, his hands, etc. have nothing to do with me.

 

I think that he tries hard and that he cares.

 

Honestly, for the amount of hate the guy gets when he has done nothing but embrace being a Bill and being in Buffalo, he should have left. He has never played with a QB that hasn't been in the bottom third of starters yet he produced a 3 year period better than Andre Reed and Eric Moulds.

 

If Stevie was in NE, he'd be the new Welker and beloved by their fanbase. Aaron Schobel syndrome. Blame the good players for the failings of the team.

[BADOLBILZ]

I love reading your stuff too, Bill.

 

My only point was that I believe Stevie, despite all his flaws, is a hard worker and I seriously doubt that his injury history is due to laziness.

 

The discussion about his character, his hands, etc. have nothing to do with me.

 

I think that he tries hard and that he cares.

 

When it comes to people's favorite players/coaches etc.. people see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.

 

Stevie was the one who said he didn't train hard.

 

He HAS been continually hobbled by soft tissue injuries for the past 3 years.

 

He has made a number of dumb decisions that have very, very unnecessarily hurt his team on the field.

 

Stevie dropped those 5 balls, including the game-winner against Pitt. He has had a number of critical drops late in games and very little success in the clutch.

 

Like him or not.....these are the facts. I personally like what he brings on the whole which is why I took my stance that you don't move the guy in the offseason for draft picks but it must be acknowledged that he comes with a warning label.

 

May implode emotionally in a big game. May drop big passes. May be hurt a lot and not be able to practice. If you can live with that out of your #1 receiver then he is a fit. If not, then he isn't.

 

I say for $7M per year, I can live with his problems in exchange for him getting open and making plays in the first 3 quarters of the game. If you need someone to make a tough catch in the clutch, find a clutch player and throw him the ball at the end of the game. You need more than 1 good option anyway.

 

There simply isn't enough talent to go around in the NFL where you can just cut bait because a player has some flaws. Good coaching works around it.

[thebandit27]

Google "Stevie Johnson 5 drops" and listen to Bill Cowher claim that was Stevie's 5th drop of the game. Does that number somehow change your opinion? You knew he was awful that day, right?

 

That said, the issue is that he drops notable passes late in games and doesn't make notable grabs late in games. He did secure that uncontested TD pass against Carolina but his track record in the clutch is sh*t.

 

Challenge accepted...not one single solitary reference on the internet to Stevie's 5 dropped passes. Can you post that PFF link? I'd be interested to see it given that PFF charted drop rate for the 2010 season and Johnson doesn't appear anywhere in the bottom 20 in the leauge:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/17/drop-rate-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/

 

I think you may be mistaken.

 

I also noticed you had no response to every other fact I posted, including the Megatron mega-drop last Sunday.

 

On the whole, I think you need to re-visit the drops issue, as Stevie ranks right beside the league's best WRs in terms of drop rate, even according to PFF:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/21/signature-stats-drop-rate-wide-receivers/

 

If you're whole position comes down to the idea that Stevie isn't "clutch", well, I think you're reaching. He's had, to my count, 2 opportunities to make a game-winning TD catch; he dropped the 2010 chance against Pittsburgh, he caught the 2013 chance against Carolina.

 

He's also had chances to make game-changing catches aplenty. Some haven't gone so well (i.e. against the Jets in 2011 and NE in the opener this year), some have (i.e. his TDs in 2011 against Oakland and NE that sparked the comeback wins and the great catch he made on the 2-point conversion against the Jets in NJ this year).

 

Bottom line on Stevie: the guy is a very good WR and a huge asset to this team; I'm just not seeing any argument against that.

[BADOLBILZ]

Challenge accepted...not one single solitary reference on the internet to Stevie's 5 dropped passes. Can you post that PFF link? I'd be interested to see it given that PFF charted drop rate for the 2010 season and Johnson doesn't appear anywhere in the bottom 20 in the leauge:

 

https://www.profootb...pping-the-ball/

 

I think you may be mistaken.

 

I also noticed you had no response to every other fact I posted, including the Megatron mega-drop last Sunday.

 

On the whole, I think you need to re-visit the drops issue, as Stevie ranks right beside the league's best WRs in terms of drop rate, even according to PFF:

 

https://www.profootb...wide-receivers/

 

If you're whole position comes down to the idea that Stevie isn't "clutch", well, I think you're reaching. He's had, to my count, 2 opportunities to make a game-winning TD catch; he dropped the 2010 chance against Pittsburgh, he caught the 2013 chance against Carolina.

 

He's also had chances to make game-changing catches aplenty. Some haven't gone so well (i.e. against the Jets in 2011 and NE in the opener this year), some have (i.e. his TDs in 2011 against Oakland and NE that sparked the comeback wins and the great catch he made on the 2-point conversion against the Jets in NJ this year).

 

Bottom line on Stevie: the guy is a very good WR and a huge asset to this team; I'm just not seeing any argument against that.

 

Stevie Johnson 5 Dropped Passes - Harsh TV Crew - YouTube

 

Tim Graham: Does Stevie Johnson Really Have a Drop Problem?

 

You protest far too much

Edited November 26, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ