Homey D. Clown Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I was watching the game yesterday thinking, Why is he not playing more when he clearly has the hot hand? I have been a staunch supporter of CJ Spiller right from the beginning, including some heated support of the theory that he was never a luxury pick, but yesterday, just wasn't his day. When this is the case, and a player is just getting shut down, they need to play Freddie as if he were the starter, he is very capable of playing at an elite level in this league, and looked very dangerous on the field, EVEN at 32 years old. The guy can flat out ball, and like it or not, Hackett would be very wise to run him till he pukes as well. It may not allow CJ to get his 2000 yards, but I guarantee they'll both win games for the Bills if a more democratic approach to the position is used. It's as if Hackett was a Bizarro Gailey, ignoring the hot hand and sticking with CJ just because. I hope this doesn't continue all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Instead of CJ getting 2000 yards (didn't think it was going to happen anyway), how about both Fred and CJ for 1200 rush yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) Fred-Ex is the heart and soul of this team, and he leaves it all on the field. Can't say the same for Spiller. Not sure how much the recent life events he has had to endure are affecting him, but he looked jittery in the 1st half and couldn't get anything going, granted the O-line was not giving him much to work with. I don't know why they didn't call better plays for him - maybe Hackett needs to get on the phone with Chan because that was one thing Chan did well. Overall, Fred had the hot hand and he also blocked realllly well. Edited September 9, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 While I agree with the OP, I have a feeling that Marrone and co. were thinking that Spiller has home run potential. Keep feeding the guy, and he could break one for 80 yards. Â But I still agree that they should have gone to Fred much earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Fred Jackson served as a great control group yesterday for demonstrating that Hackett was NOT to blame. Â I mentioned in another thread that seams didn't magically open for FredEx, though someone countered that they did, saying the Pats* keyed on CJ. Â But from where I sat, execution cost us the game, Freddy helped show that. CJ not finding the gap, penalties and drops, and NOT playcalling, was the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 With Fred, it's a 7 yard gain or a 5 yard gain. With CJ it's a 2 yard gain, -2 yard gain, or a 30 yard gain. Consistency and be able to get yards out of nothing is why Fred is a better traditional back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Fred is still the man. Clearly he is the better runner between the tackles. He's moving forward all the time and doesn't get tripped up by arm tackles like CJ. Spiller is explosive and needs to be put in better positions to be explosive. Based on yesterday, Chan was justified last year in saying that "Fred needs the ball too". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Fred-Ex is the heart and soul of this team, and he leaves it all on the field. Can't say the same for Spiller. Not sure how much the recent life events he has had to endure are affecting him, but he looked jittery in the 1st half and couldn't get anything going, granted the O-line was not giving him much to work with. I don't know why they didn't call better plays for him - maybe Hackett needs to get on the phone with Chan because that was one thing Chan did well. Overall, Fred had the hot hand and he also blocked realllly well. Personally, I don't think it's a question of heart...both FJ & CJ seem to have passion and motor to spare. I'm more worried that something seemed out-of-sync/broken with CJ...the handoffs from EJ to CJ seemed awkward and it felt like one or the other was telegraphing every run. But then, I'm not an expert and could be seeing something not there. Hopefully CJ just had a bad game. Honestly, I liked the way Marrone/Hackett mixed FJ in as a counterpoint, and continued to try to get the big play from CJ. CJ just wasn't making it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Personally, I don't think it's a question of heart...both FJ & CJ seem to have passion and motor to spare. I'm more worried that something seemed out-of-sync/broken with CJ...the handoffs from EJ to CJ seemed awkward and it felt like one or the other was telegraphing every run. But then, I'm not an expert and could be seeing something not there. Hopefully CJ just had a bad game. Honestly, I liked the way Marrone/Hackett mixed FJ in as a counterpoint, and continued to try to get the big play from CJ. CJ just wasn't making it work. I have to think that some of the EJ/CJ out-of-synch stuff is because they both missed a lot of camp and games in the PS. Whereas Fred has missed no time and actually played quite a bit in the PS. Hopefully they will all start to gel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Fred Jackson served as a great control group yesterday for demonstrating that Hackett was NOT to blame. Â I mentioned in another thread that seams didn't magically open for FredEx, though someone countered that they did, saying the Pats* keyed on CJ. Â But from where I sat, execution cost us the game, Freddy helped show that. CJ not finding the gap, penalties and drops, and NOT playcalling, was the difference. Â Great point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf Sandwich Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 CJ had a bad game and Fred stepped up. This doesn't mean bench CJ or limit him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Overall, we have a dynamic 1-2 punch at RB when in synch. Did you watch the Giants last night? They have 0 good RBs and were embarrassed. I am excited to have 2 very good RBs, one which is a home run threat and one that will pound the ball. Both are talented and motivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 CJ had a bad game and Fred stepped up. This doesn't mean bench CJ or limit him at all. Â Except for yesterday. I mean, when a player is doing awful, you don't let him continue being awful over and over again right? If this was Chan and Fred, half of this board would be flying off the handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I think Fred needs to be the starter. CJ is a change of pace back and someone that can attack the corner. He's not an every down back like Fred (Fred runs hard between the tackles, good pass blocker, etc). Start Fred, bring in CJ and run draws and screen plays for him, bring Fred back in to get the tough yards. We have 2 good RB's, use them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOFO Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Does anyone remember if they lined up in the back field at the same time? Would think this would cause some match up problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) Does anyone remember if they lined up in the back field at the same time? Would think this would cause some match up problems... No they didn't. and yes it would. I also didn't see Frank Summers in the game. CJ can use a lead blocker (actually so can Fred) and this is a mistake. The I formation worked well last year as well as some spread formations. You design things to the strengths of your players, they didn't do it in this game plan, IMO. The run plays yesterday especially to CJ were poorly called, he does need space or to get around the corner. He can run off tackle but not all of the time . He did look off his game too, hope he doesn't have a MD type of season (in light of his last couple of weeks). Edited September 9, 2013 by bowery4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Freddy is a team captain for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Fred Jackson served as a great control group yesterday for demonstrating that Hackett was NOT to blame. Â I mentioned in another thread that seams didn't magically open for FredEx, though someone countered that they did, saying the Pats* keyed on CJ. Â But from where I sat, execution cost us the game, Freddy helped show that. CJ not finding the gap, penalties and drops, and NOT playcalling, was the difference. Â Hackett should recognize where his RBs strengths are. CJ doesn't make 3 yards in a pile, running into a stacked box. Fred can. CJ needs to have space, and a spread field. They just need to be utilized a bit differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 No they didn't. and yes it would. I also didn't see Frank Summers in the game. CJ can use a lead blocker (actually so can Fred) and this is a mistake. The I formation worked well last year as well as some spread formations. You design things to the strengths of your players, they didn't do it in this game plan, IMO. The run plays yesterday especially to CJ were poorly called, he does need space or to get around the corner. He can run off tackle but not all of the time . He did look off his game too, hope he doesn't have a MD type of season (in light of his last couple of weeks). Â Last year's blocking scheme was better for Spilller than the blocking scheme used in this game. That scheme created holes and slant lanes that Spiller utilized to get his runs up the middle. And it is the OC's responsibility to adjust plays to take advantage of whatever the defense was giving and he did not do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I read that he's old & fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I drafted Spiller and Jackson in my league.  I hope I dont have to flip a coin for who I start each week  CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemedic Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Last year's blocking scheme was better for Spilller than the blocking scheme used in this game. That scheme created holes and slant lanes that Spiller utilized to get his runs up the middle. And it is the OC's responsibility to adjust plays to take advantage of whatever the defense was giving and he did not do that. AMEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 They are two different backs that will be better or worse matchups depending on the d they face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Let's revisit this thread after Freddy's first fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Last year's blocking scheme was better for Spilller than the blocking scheme used in this game. That scheme created holes and slant lanes that Spiller utilized to get his runs up the middle. And it is the OC's responsibility to adjust plays to take advantage of whatever the defense was giving and he did not do that. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chi-town Bills Fan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Freddy is 32 he is in the exact role he should be...getting 15 carries a game and used for blitz pickups. You don't wanna start him and have him gassed by week 13 or 14 cuz there is a good chance that might happen with his age. That being said it is great to see that he still has that chip on his shoulder when he is out there and he looked fast as ever hitting those holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 It should be noted that CJ carried the ball as many times (17) as he did in BOTH NE games last year (9,8). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The late changed their d play when spiller came out. That changed it a little for fred. They loosened up  I want to know why we didn't put both on the field in some play action, in some read option. In some presnap CJ wide stuff. Clearly the pats d keyed on spiller. And it was apparent in the game. What's his name lined IP against him every time and that was enough to stop him. Clealr lane to CJ every time. Thanks to bianca. Mayo kept spiller in check. He could. It stop Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Fred is still better than CJ. Yes, I said it. Â He's been getting the shaft his whole career here. All he does is produce more than whatever first round glamour pick is supposed to be better than him. I love Spiller's explosiveness and think he's a hell of a player, but Fred Jackson has the most unique ability of any running back I've seen here in a long time. He's not the fastest, nor the strongest, but he just gets it done. I think its a combination of elusiveness, patience, and just great football instincts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Everyone thought Fred was done two weeks ago hahaha. They said they were gonna use them both back there, I guess not. They didn't use summers to lead block. You have to get spiller the ball in space with screens and tosses. Fred is better between the tackles and pass blocking. C'mon Hackett! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 CJ had a bad game and Fred stepped up. This doesn't mean bench CJ or limit him at all. Agreed. But between the tackles???? Spiller has never shown that ability. I would expect Hackett/Marrone to know that. And even if they didn't, it should have been apparent at halftime and triggered a change. That's what I found baffling. It wasn't working yet they kept going to it over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Everyone thought Fred was done two weeks ago hahaha. They said they were gonna use them both back there, I guess not. They didn't use summers to lead block. You have to get spiller the ball in space with screens and tosses. Fred is better between the tackles and pass blocking. C'mon Hackett! I remember those comments. Some of the people on this board are unbelievable. Â We have two good RB's on this roster. We should use them both, in whatever situation helps out the offense the most. Â No they didn't. and yes it would. I also didn't see Frank Summers in the game. CJ can use a lead blocker (actually so can Fred) and this is a mistake. The I formation worked well last year as well as some spread formations. You design things to the strengths of your players, they didn't do it in this game plan, IMO. The run plays yesterday especially to CJ were poorly called, he does need space or to get around the corner. He can run off tackle but not all of the time . He did look off his game too, hope he doesn't have a MD type of season (in light of his last couple of weeks). I agree with you. The only time I saw Frank Summers was on special teams. Â Having a FB in the offense could be very useful. Â Let's revisit this thread after Freddy's first fumble. Oh yeah, then he'll be old and a liability again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I remember those comments. Some of the people on this board are unbelievable. Â We have two good RB's on this roster. We should use them both, in whatever situation helps out the offense the most. Â Â I agree with you. The only time I saw Frank Summers was on special teams. Â Having a FB in the offense could be very useful. Â Â Oh yeah, then he'll be old and a liability again. Â Freddy: exceptionally good at finding space. CJ: exceptionally good IN space. Summers: a space maker. Â Seems like a logical fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 FredEx has run great behind some terrible offensive lines in the past. Some of those lines he and Marshawn ran behind were the worst in the NFL. Freddy would always find a way to pick up that extra yardage. CJ always seems to run out of bounds before the first down marker, where Fred will turn back toward the playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 I'd really just like to see both guys have an equal opportunity to play, and if one guy is hot, see the ball more. If next week CJ seems unstoppable, leave him in till he pukes. I want to be sure people don't interpret my original post as a call to see Freddie take over, but rather leave him IN the game IF he's clearly the more productive guy that day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLbills Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The late changed their d play when spiller came out. That changed it a little for fred. They loosened up  I want to know why we didn't put both on the field in some play action, in some read option. In some presnap CJ wide stuff. Clearly the pats d keyed on spiller. And it was apparent in the game. What's his name lined IP against him every time and that was enough to stop him. Clealr lane to CJ every time. Thanks to bianca. Mayo kept spiller in check. He could. It stop Fred  Huh? Replying from phone? Damn auto correct... Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) FJ has always ran with a big chip on his shoulder, Â even more so now, Â Â 22 Fred Jackson is still the heart and soul of the Buffalo Bills. Â Â Â Â (Thanks Mods) Edited September 14, 2013 by dog14787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 They are two different backs that will be better or worse matchups depending on the d they face. Â Â This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 I read that he's old & fat. Â Remember the conniptions here last season over CJ not getting 25 carries a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Remember the conniptions here last season over CJ not getting 25 carries a game? Â Last season or last month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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