An outsider's view of the 2013 Bills.

[ganesh]

Love this quote:

 

I've interviewed Manuel many times, but none of them more impressive than the camp interview. I felt like I was sitting with Russell Wilson last year, the way the young man talked about preparation, leadership and efficiency.

 

All that advise from Aaron must have helped him prepare for the NFL!!

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Love this quote:

 

I've interviewed Manuel many times, but none of them more impressive than the camp interview. I felt like I was sitting with Russell Wilson last year, the way the young man talked about preparation, leadership and efficiency.

 

Lets hope so, I'd like to eat my words about him.

[Nanker]

Kirwan was humbled by his 15 years in the league where he basically rose up the ranks of bad organizations by helping stock them with poor talent until he finally went bust as a boss at the Jets during the Rich Kotite era. If anyone knows how Dick Jauron feels when he says "it's hard to win in the NFL", it's Kirwan. I am sure that guy wakes up with a smile every day knowing that he gets paid to observe and talk football instead of what he probably would be doing if Hugh Culverhouse or Bill Bidwell could get any good personnel men to work for him. Matt Millen isn't anywhere near as critical either after his interlude as a GM between talking head gigs.

Parcells axed him when he got the Jests' HC gig. Kirwan is an astute observer of the game. Other than his being pals with Pete Carrol, he's very easy to listen to for hours. He's a pretty shrewd and honest evaluator of talent. If you listen to him talk, he always gives praise to the player's upside - and balances it with caveats about what could happen if they don't work on their flaws - and he enumerates them with ease - as a well seasoned practitioner of the art of talent evaluation should. Gil Brandt is the Godfather (and getting mighty old, I might add), and Kirwan is following somewhat in his shoes. He can do a SWOT analysis on a team in about an hour.

 

Lets hope so, I'd like to eat my words about him.

Here's hoping you'll have ample opportunity to do just that. Edited August 2, 2013 by Nanker

[CSBill]

Love this quote:

 

I've interviewed Manuel many times, but none of them more impressive than the camp interview. I felt like I was sitting with Russell Wilson last year, the way the young man talked about preparation, leadership and efficiency.

 

gotta like that

[BuffaloBill]

Certainly provides hope...

[eball]

Love this quote:

 

I've interviewed Manuel many times, but none of them more impressive than the camp interview. I felt like I was sitting with Russell Wilson last year, the way the young man talked about preparation, leadership and efficiency.

 

Cue the "Bill Walsh loved Trent Edwards" clips.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

Kirwan was humbled by his 15 years in the league where he basically rose up the ranks of bad organizations by helping stock them with poor talent until he finally went bust as a boss at the Jets during the Rich Kotite era. If anyone knows how Dick Jauron feels when he says "it's hard to win in the NFL", it's Kirwan. I am sure that guy wakes up with a smile every day knowing that he gets paid to observe and talk football instead of what he probably would be doing if Hugh Culverhouse or Bill Bidwell could get any good personnel men to work for him. Matt Millen isn't anywhere near as critical either after his interlude as a GM between talking head gigs.

I don't think Kirwin was stocking the Jets in 1995-96; I think he focused more on contracts and the cap. He was high up though. Incidentally, as far as I know it wasn't his choice to fire Pete Carroll (a good coach). Kotite had a lot of power, and Dick Haley was a central player in the draft. In fact, I'd guess that Kirwan lost some power after the firing of his friend Carroll.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/spread-wealth-kotite-doesn-credit-3-13-article-1.697845

 

http://articles.philly.com/1996-12-09/sports/25640328_1_oil-fumes-leon-hess-bad-coach

Edited August 2, 2013 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

I don't think Kirwin was stocking the Jets in 1995-96; I think he focused more on contracts and the cap. He was high up though. Incidentally, as far as I know it wasn't his choice to fire Pete Carroll (a good coach). Kotite had a lot of power, and Dick Haley was a central player in the draft. In fact, I'd guess that Kirwan lost some power after the firing of his friend Carroll.

 

http://www.nydailyne...rticle-1.697845

 

http://articles.phil...-hess-bad-coach

 

I'm sure he would appreciate your support. He was a personnel man for a long time for teams which ended up with......poor personnel. It's like having Dick Jauron providing analysis on how to be a successful NFL head coach.

[BADOLBILZ]

Parcells axed him when he got the Jests' HC gig. Kirwan is an astute observer of the game. Other than his being pals with Pete Carrol, he's very easy to listen to for hours. He's a pretty shrewd and honest evaluator of talent. If you listen to him talk, he always gives praise to the player's upside - and balances it with caveats about what could happen if they don't work on their flaws - and he enumerates them with ease - as a well seasoned practitioner of the art of talent evaluation should. Gil Brandt is the Godfather (and getting mighty old, I might add), and Kirwan is following somewhat in his shoes. He can do a SWOT analysis on a team in about an hour.

 

Here's hoping you'll have ample opportunity to do just that.

 

He is an entertainer, his evaluations are well presented but pretty random. When he first came on the scene back in the 90's I observed a lot of his takes closely with the belief that he must be offering some insight but that wasn't really the case. He is well liked but not a high ratings guy because he blows smoke up fans asses and then when his evaluations prove wrong nobody remembers.

 

Cue the "Bill Walsh loved Trent Edwards" clips.

 

Kirwan loved Edwards too. When the Bills cut him he was promoting the idea that Carolina should pick up Edwards and start him. God awful evaluation.

[dave mcbride]

I'm sure he would appreciate your support. He was a personnel man for a long time for teams which ended up with......poor personnel. It's like having Dick Jauron providing analysis on how to be a successful NFL head coach.

 

Not getting where I indicated that I supported him. I could care less about him one way or the other. I completely get that he was around lousy franchises for a long time. I was just pointing out that I don't think he had a ton of power in the Kotite era. No need for the snark ...

Edited August 2, 2013 by dave mcbride

[ChevyVanMiller]

As was I. It seemed as though a guy like Tyran Matheau has just as many, if not more, off the field red flags and he was picked up in the the 3rd round. Matheau is very talented at his DB position, but Rogers may be just as talented on the other side of the ball. It's a bit puzzling, but I'm sure glad it worked out the way it did.

 

What I loved is what Marrone said to him at the Rookie minicamp. He said something along the lines of: "If you want to spend your life working for an hourly wage there are many opportunities available, but if you want to be an NFL player you've already used up your free passes, so you better take this opportunity seriously."

Edited August 2, 2013 by ChevyVanMiller

[YoloinOhio]

What i loved is what Marrone said to him at the Rookie minicamp. He said something along the lines of: "If you want to spend your life working for an hourly wage theri are many opportunities available, but if you want to be an NFL player you've already used up your free passes, so you better take this opportunity seriously."

What did Rogers do in minicamp to get this talk?

[Cheddar's Dad]

Tenn has not be relevant for a long time.

 

Apparently you're not up on college football. Ternnessee has a new coach and he's a recruiting demon. Check to see who has the best 2014 commits.

[KD in CA]

Even with the failed drug tests and character issues, I was pretty surprised that a guy with a late first round/early second round grade would go undrafted.

Didn't we just get through talking about all the red flags with Aaron Hernandez and how the Pats were duped, etc.? This is the other side of the coin. Sometimes the problem children turn it around (which is still an unknown with Rogers) and sometimes they don't.

 

(and no that doesn't mean I am equating pot smoking to murder)

 

Takes no balls to be negative all the time. It's all upside no matter how things turn out.

 

GO BILLS!!!

On the contrary, I think it take a lot more balls to view your favorite team with the same critical eye you would any other team and make an objective evaluation.

[ChevyVanMiller]

What did Rogers do in minicamp to get this talk?

 

Nothing. Marrone was adressing the drug problems in college and basically letting the kid know that the team took a risk signing him and it was up to him to rise to the challenge or get himself a lunch pail and earn his money one hour at a time like most of us.

[K-9]

Nothing. Marrone was adressing the drug problems in college and basically letting the kid know that the team took a risk signing him and it was up to him to rise to the challenge or get himself a lunch pail and earn his money one hour at a time like most of us.

 

As I recall, Rogers made a nice catch over a CB and then stood over the CB and talked smack. Marrone pulled him aside and had a chat with him after that play.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

On the contrary, I think it take a lot more balls to view your favorite team with the same critical eye you would any other team and make an objective evaluation.

 

Being critical and optimistic are not mutually exclusive. And rubbing someone's nose in their optimism is never called for. But my point is this, by investing in a negative outcome, you are assured of being ok with the result, win or lose.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[YoloinOhio]

Nothing. Marrone was adressing the drug problems in college and basically letting the kid know that the team took a risk signing him and it was up to him to rise to the challenge or get himself a lunch pail and earn his money one hour at a time like most of us.

OK - good. Just glad that there weren't new issues. The smack talk thing always bothers me with rookies, but typical of the WR/CB variety.

[BADOLBILZ]

Not getting where I indicated that I supported him. I could care less about him one way or the other. I completely get that he was around lousy franchises for a long time. I was just pointing out that I don't think he had a ton of power in the Kotite era. No need for the snark ...

 

Yeah you just felt the need to be vaguely contrary on 15% of his career...the point where he reached his highest rank and ended with the worst team he was associated with, the 1-15 Jets.

 

He was a longtime scout for nothing but teams that ended up with poor talent and his takes tend to be random. That's enough for me.

 

If you want to say none of that matters then fine, but defending his time in NY is laughable. Yeah....because being the contract guy who signed Neil O'Donnell to that thifty deal isn't a black mark on your resume.

 

Nothing personal, but snark is sometimes warranted.

[BADOLBILZ]

Being critical and optimistic are not mutually exclusive. And rubbing someone's nose in their optimism is never called for. But my point is this, by investing in a negative outcome, you are assured of being ok with the result, win or lose.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

No, you have it all wrong. It is NOT OK for the team to keep losing. The object of the game is winning. When you aren't competitive for 10 or 15 years you really aren't even part of the equation any longer. That's where the Bills are right now. They are on the outside of the league looking in along with a handful of other poorly run organizations. Objective fans can see this and have toned down their expectations because there really is no point getting worked up about something that is poorly run and out of your control. Instead, a few damn fools kill themselves every September/October going into shock and deperession when....for some reason.....poor talent plus poor preparation ends up yielding more losses. My advice to you is find more hobbies.

[Lv-Bills]

Rarely post much anymore, and I'm hardly an apologist, but Pat Kirwan is the best football analyst, hands down, on the radio. There is no second. Anyone who listens to NFL radio, and any other radio station for that matter can tell this immediately. The guy knows football, speaks it's current lingo, and understands any and all schemes that teams use today. He's connected. His sources are still impeccable, and he's connected all around the league, including small places like Buffalo, which he often praises from his days getting pounded on when he was with the Jets. He frequently can tell callers if rumors flying around are far fetched or grounded in some truth. When teamed with Tim Ryan, they have a no nonsense football talk show and engage callers very intelligently about the game. For some reason, you tune in, not because it's so entertaining, it's because they, mostly Kirwan, know football and are still very connected to the insiders of the league. I would take Kirwan's take, ANYDAY, over anyone else on the radio, and probably TV. He's very good. In a nutshell, what he said about the Bills was that this is a team that looks like it has a bunch of young talent that should get better as the play more. He said, they aren't going to contend right away, but will be nightmares to defend once all the young offensive guys get start getting confident. As for the defense, they will be aggressive. That's for sure. Whether that translates into anything great, he wasn't sure. On Byrd, he hopes not, but usually when things get this far, it usually doesn't mean anything positive for the future. Not always, but usually.