ESPN article ranks Marv Levy # 17

[WIDE LEFT]

ESPN article ranks Marv # 17 in rating of all time coaches. I think that's fair, and that Marv achieved great things as a coach here. I admire much of what he did and stands for, but I do not believe he belongs in the Hall of Fame. He was handed an unbelievably talented roster - the two most important positions (QB and pass rusher) he had hall of famers, including arguably a best ever (Bruce Smith). Toss in a hall of fame RB, the best special teams player ever (Tasker) and the greatest linebacker who will never make the hall of fame (Bennett). My biggest criticism of Marv is his failure recognize what his team was and coordinate offensive & defensive philosophies. The Bills had one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history, virtually unstoppable at times. Given that, what is the worst possible defensive philosophy/scheme you could adopt? Well the one Marv did, a bend don't break type defense. With an offense like the Bills had, the last thing you would want is a defense that bends and allows the opposing team to possess the ball for long periods of time, keeping your prolific offense on the sideline. Should have an attacking, high risk defense because even if you give up a quick TD, you have that great offense getting the ball back. This killed them in the first Superbowl, as the Giants held the ball for large chunks of time. Terribly out coached that game. When your defensive philosophy is so badly mismatched to the offense you have, that is on the head coach. It was Marv's biggest failure.

[truth on hold]

Those teams were all about the players not the coaches. The K-gun offense was improvised on the field, and "read and react" defense featured a lot of improvisation on the field too. The GM Polian who sourced the players had a lot more to do with the success than the coaches.

[billrooter]

Marv Levy is a great guy but before he came to Buffalo he was a sub 500 coach in the nfl, many coaches would have succeded with the talent he inherited. I would in fact go out on a limb and say if the Bills' had a coach a caliber of Parcells, Johnson, or Gibbs they would have definitely have won the first super bowl and quite possibly another or two. The bills' staff was really out coached in those super bowls and probably a lot of other games while he was here, but they has a ton of talent!

[swnybillsfan]

could we maybe give marv a bit of credit for bringing together that group of hugely talented but extremely tempermental egomaniacs? seems like there were 1 or 2 very difficult personalities mixed in there. and marv seemed to know what to say, when and how to say it. marv may never have one the big one, but i think there is a reason that he is revered, loved and respected the way he is. best coach ever? not remotely. classy guy that deserves his place in the history books and in the hearts of bills nation, absolutely!

[WIDE LEFT]

could we maybe give marv a bit of credit for bringing together that group of hugely talented but extremely tempermental egomaniacs? seems like there were 1 or 2 very difficult personalities mixed in there. and marv seemed to know what to say, when and how to say it. marv may never have one the big one, but i think there is a reason that he is revered, loved and respected the way he is. best coach ever? not remotely. classy guy that deserves his place in the history books and in the hearts of bills nation, absolutely!

 

Well I think I did - re read the first two sentences of original post. I admire much of what he did, just don't believe he belongs in Hall of Fame.

[Buftex]

could we maybe give marv a bit of credit for bringing together that group of hugely talented but extremely tempermental egomaniacs? seems like there were 1 or 2 very difficult personalities mixed in there. and marv seemed to know what to say, when and how to say it. marv may never have one the big one, but i think there is a reason that he is revered, loved and respected the way he is. best coach ever? not remotely. classy guy that deserves his place in the history books and in the hearts of bills nation, absolutely!

 

Giving any Bills from the Super Bowl era teams is not chic or in vouge on TSW. According to them: Marv was not really a good coach, Jim Kelly was a drunk who partied too much, Thurman lost his helmet, Andre Reed was an overrated diva, and Bruce Smith was "all about me"... that is the way it is now...

 

I sometimes think, if this team ever really does turn it around, there are some who are so jaded, they won't be able to enjoy it, and will do their damndest not to let anyone else enjoy it.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Buftex

[Tcali]

I dont think he is anywhere near deserving of 177 all-. he was a good coach.Thats all.

 

Marv Levy is a great guy but before he came to Buffalo he was a sub 500 coach in the nfl, many coaches would have succeded with the talent he inherited. I would in fact go out on a limb and say if the Bills' had a coach a caliber of Parcells, Johnson, or Gibbs they would have definitely have won the first super bowl and quite possibly another or two. The bills' staff was really out coached in those super bowls and probably a lot of other games while he was here, but they has a ton of talent!

I don't think Parcells was very good either.take belichek away from him and he is a slightly above avg coach.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Tcali

[mrags]

I've said for years Marv doesn't deserve to be in the HOF. It was the GM and players, not the coach. If the coach was anything more than a grown mans babysitter we would have won at least 1.

 

I did a little study a few years ago and found that, of the few coaches in the HOF that don't have a SB Ri g, Marv had the worst w/l record I believe.

 

Can't quite remember though. Was a long time ago.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Never liked Levy after his anti hunting remarks. Stick with football butt wipe. I believe it was Kent Hull [God bless em] who showed up at the next players meeting in full hunting camo to show the old fart what he thought about it.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Never liked Levy after his anti hunting remarks. Stick with football butt wipe. I believe it was Kent Hull [God bless em] who showed up at the next players meeting in full hunting camo to show the old fart what he thought about it.

 

So you'll dislike a person on balance based on one issue?

[folz]

Honestly, you people do not know what you're talking about. You were either too young to watch Marv

as a coach or you're so disgusted with Bills football of the last 12 years that you're just ragging on everyone.

 

I think too many people discount how good of a coach he was because of his lackluster outing as a GM.

 

Marv was a great coach!!!! Do you really think it is just a fluke that he is in the HOF and still considered one

of the 20 best of all time?

 

Oh right, it's just because he got lucky to have great players...

What about Shula having Unitas, Griese, and Marino

Or Jimmy Johnson having Aikman, E. Smith, and Johnson...just for a start

Any team that makes a Super Bowl has great/all pro/HOF players. If you say that for

Marv, you have to say that about every other Super Bowl coach

Walsh...Montana, Rice, etc

Knoll...Bradshaw, Greene, Stallworth, Franco, Swan, etc.

That is just such a bad argument.

 

That Bills team was full of egos...Marv united them, made them a family. It was war, us against them,

being accountable to the other men in the trenches with you. He inspired that team. Do you really

think without Marv's leadership they would have gone to the Bowl 4 times? No, that team would have

been at each other's throats (remember the bickering Bills) and imploded. They persevered because

of what Marv instilled in them. They didn't achieve in spite of him, they achieved because of him.

 

He may not have been the architect of the K-gun/no-huddle, but he definitely had a hand in it (if you remember

how it came about---after the Cincinatti game) and he had the final say on using it, how they would use it,

allowing his QB to call the plays, etc. and ended up overseeing one of the most prolific offenses

ever. And it was due to Marv that Special Teams became important again league-wide and made a name

for Steve Tasker and Mark Pike.

 

What? Marv was only a .500 coach in the NFL before coming to Buffalo?...Well, Bill Belichick was under .500 in 5 years

at Cleveland and 1 year in New England before Brady took over. Marv also coached in the Canadian League.

In 5 years up in Canada, he was in the Grey Cup (their Super Bowl) 3 out of 5 years, winning 2. And although,

his time with the Chiefs wasn't completely successful, he had inherited a horrendous 2-12 team and each year

they improved to 4, 7, 8 wins, then 9-7 in 1981 (before a strike shortened season).

 

The reason we failed in the Super Bowls was because the league was changing at that time to bigger, beefier

offensive lines and our small 3-man front couldn't stop the run consistently enough against those new O-lines

(Washington and Dallas). And sure the Giants (Parcells and Belichick) had a good game plan in SB XXV to

use a time sucking ground attack to keep the Bills offense off the field, but it's not like he was severely out coached,

we lost the game by 1 point for Christ's sake and if Norwood's FG goes through we would have won. And don't forget,

in week 15 of that same year, we had beaten that same Giants team in the Meadowlands 17-13. Those teams were so evenly

matched and those were two hard fought, close games.

 

Marv is the only coach to go to 4 consecutive Super Bowls (do you know how hard that is even though they lost them)?

He was also the coach of the greatest NFL comeback of all time.

In an 8 year stretch, his Bills won the AFC East 6 times.

He was Skyline Conference Coach of the year both years he coached at the University of New Mexico.

He also won Southern Conference Coach of the Year awards 2 out of 5 years he was at William & Mary.

Won the Annis Stukus Trophy (Coach of the year in the Canadian League) in 1974.

Was NFL Coach of the Year in 1988 and AFC Coach of the Year in 1988, 1993, and 1995.

One of only 2 coaches (Tom Flores was the other) to have a winning record (17-6) against the winningest coach

in the history of the NFL (Shula).

One of only 14 coaches to win at least 100 games with one team.

One of only 2 coaches (Bud Grant, the other) to appear in both Grey Cup Championship and the Super Bowl.

Over a 10 year span (1988-1997), an entire decade, the Bills won more games than any team in the AFC and

2nd only to San Francisco in the entire NFL (I'm sure coaching had nothing to do with that...right?)

 

 

I just don't understand this revisionist history. Give the man his due and have some respect for not only one

of the best Bills coaches ever, but one of the best of all-time.

 

"Where would you rather be than right here, right now"

 

"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us."

 

Come on Man!

Edited May 27, 2013 by folz

[Jim in Anchorage]

 

 

So you'll dislike a person on balance based on one issue?

Yes. When he tells me I [and many others] are cowardly sackless killers. He wasn't just not interested in hunting he made it a point to tell every one what backward scum hunters are. Did that bother me? Yes. He put out some very ignorant uninformed statements on a subject that he knew nothing about and no one asked him about.

Go back to you're ivory tower Marv. Read some poetry.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Jim in Anchorage

[truth on hold]

So you'll dislike a person on balance based on one issue?

When it comes to guns n' killin' fer' fun, yeah. I take it you havent visited PPP? he's not alone

Edited May 27, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack

[bbb]

Never liked Levy after his anti hunting remarks. Stick with football butt wipe. I believe it was Kent Hull [God bless em] who showed up at the next players meeting in full hunting camo to show the old fart what he thought about it.

 

I've disagreed with Marv's politics when he's talked about them, but he's my all time favorite sportsman (coach or athlete)................And, it was Joe Devlin, not Kent Hull.

 

I've said for years Marv doesn't deserve to be in the HOF. It was the GM and players, not the coach. If the coach was anything more than a grown mans babysitter we would have won at least 1.

 

I did a little study a few years ago and found that, of the few coaches in the HOF that don't have a SB Ri g, Marv had the worst w/l record I believe.

 

Can't quite remember though. Was a long time ago.

 

Anybody who doesn't think Marv had a lot of influence in who Polian picked as players doesn't realize that Marv was Polian's mentor, not the other way around..............And, I've recently seen Polian talk about them building a consensus on players.

 

Marv as a GM was only a figurehead. I think if he was younger, and was a real GM, he would have been a great one. He had an eye for talent and was great at running an organization.

 

By the way, this really wasn't an espn survey or anything it was Rick Reilly's column. I read it earlier today. He left Bill Parcells off, which I don't really agree with, but I like anyway.............I love the picture of Halas and Lombardi before a game:

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/greatestcoachreilly/my-top-20-nfl-coaches

 

Halas-Lombardi pic:

[Jim in Anchorage]

 

When it comes to guns n' killin' fer' fun, yeah. I take it you havent visited PPP? he's alone

Actually I was more into bow hunting when Marv made his statements. And yes I understand I deal with largely Disney/city folk here.

Edit: Love the way you put the n' and the fer' in there. That is so clever and funny!

Edited May 27, 2013 by Jim in Anchorage

[Buftex]

What a depressing thread this is.

[bbb]

What a depressing thread this is.

 

I'm just happy he didn't die. That's what I was afraid of when I clicked in..........I think of him and Jack Ramsey as these ageless wonders. Both late 80s, I believe...........And, Dr. Jack is now battling bone cancer. He had already decided this was his last year of calling games. But, he had to quit early. But, true to form he's driving himself to and from treatment, and he plans on being to his usual Jersey Shore place in June.

[KollegeStudnet]

The dilemma if Wade was the DC during the Super Bowl years was a good way of looking at the change in D

[vorpma]

Troy Aikman back in the 90's stated that going to four straight Super Bowls was great acheivment and would probably never be accomplished again, lauding the Bills for the accomplishment.

 

I would love the chance to get mad about being out coached in a Super Bowl game again, have the world come to an end because we lost two games in a row in route to the playoff, or Monday morning QB a winning QB.

 

Commencing in 1986 for 14 seasons, the Bills going into week 15 for twelve seasons.

[Buftex]

I'm just happy he didn't die. That's what I was afraid of when I clicked in..........I think of him and Jack Ramsey as these ageless wonders. Both late 80s, I believe...........And, Dr. Jack is now battling bone cancer. He had already decided this was his last year of calling games. But, he had to quit early. But, true to form he's driving himself to and from treatment, and he plans on being to his usual Jersey Shore place in June.

 

Yeah, I think Levy was fantastic. I choose to ignore the Marv as GM years, and I give him credit for stepping down. I heard him say he wasn't comfortable in the role, and, basically, took the job at Mr Wilson's request, not really knowing what his role would be. As you said earlier, he was more a figurehead than a traditional GM. It didn't go well, but I tend to blame that as much, if not more, in the owner than on Levy.

 

I just find the fact that we can't even agree that the most successful coach in the history of the franchise we devote so much time to was a pretty damn good coach, whether he was a delegater or administrator, or whatever it was, it worked better than any other set up the Bills have ever had. People say "a real coach" would have gotten a ring or two with all that talent...but then they say the players themselves were "overrated" and generally well respected coaches, such as Bill Parcells are "overrated"...it is just tiresome and depressing. We can't enjoy anything it seems.

 

Troy Aikman back in the 90's stated that going to four straight Super Bowls was great acheivment and would probably never be accomplished again, lauding the Bills for the accomplishment.

 

 

I heard Parcells once say (around the time of Levy's induction into the HOF) that getting a team to a Super Bowl 4 times was impressive, the fact that they lost each one, in some ways, he said, made the the achievement all the more impressive.

[machine gun kelly]

Marv was a good coach, and some of these negative comments may be from young guys who were not old enough to appreciate what he did accomplish. From 88-99 we went to the playoffs most years. Granted Levy was here through 96, but he created a very dynamic team. It was his vision for the no huddle offense.

 

Yes, Polian gave Marv tremendous talent, with excellent lines on both sides, HOF RB, QB, WR (Lofton and I consider Reed HOF).

 

For the moron who said Parcells was nothing without Belichek is just that. parcels not only won 2 Superbowls with Belicheck, he turned around a 1-15 Jets team to the playoffs, turned around a poor Patriots team, turned around a poor Dallas team, and so on. He's one of the best coaches of all time. I don't hate the guy because he out coached Marv in 25.

 

Don't rewrite hx. Those were fantastic Bills teams, and be proud of it. I know we're going to get back to greatness one of these days, and eventually win the championship.

[K-9]

Never liked Levy after his anti hunting remarks. Stick with football butt wipe. I believe it was Kent Hull [God bless em] who showed up at the next players meeting in full hunting camo to show the old fart what he thought about it.

 

IIRC, he said he didn't see the "sport" in it. That's anti-hunting?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Jim in Anchorage]

 

 

IIRC, he said he didn't see the "sport" in it. That's anti-hunting?

 

GO BILLS!!!

Yes. Doubt if the man would live one day in the woods alone. If you don't know any thing about a subject don't go offering your opinion on it.

 

[ganesh]

 

 

For the moron who said Parcells was nothing without Belichek is just that. parcels not only won 2 Superbowls with Belicheck, he turned around a 1-15 Jets team to the playoffs, turned around a poor Patriots team, turned around a poor Dallas team, and so on. He's one of the best coaches of all time. I don't hate the guy because he out coached Marv in 25.

 

Don't rewrite hx. Those were fantastic Bills teams, and be proud of it. I know we're going to get back to greatness one of these days, and eventually win the championship.

 

The 1-15 turnaround also included Belichek as the DC. In Dallas, Parcells had the luxury of another great DC in Wade Phillips. Finally, his stint in Miami showed that he was indeed missing those key parts.

Having said that, I would like to state that, NFL is the ultimate team sport and it requires all of them (53 players and the many Coaches) and excellent players at skill positions to put out a winning program.

 

I don't think any one is rewriting history. Parcells was another good HC in the NFL.

[mrags]

 

Yes. When he tells me I [and many others] are cowardly sackless killers. He wasn't just not interested in hunting he made it a point to tell every one what backward scum hunters are. Did that bother me? Yes. He put out some very ignorant uninformed statements on a subject that he knew nothing about and no one asked him about.

Go back to you're ivory tower Marv. Read some poetry.

in staying out of it this time. A ban and warning point has straightened me right out.

 

Honestly, you people do not know what you're talking about. You were either too young to watch Marv

as a coach or you're so disgusted with Bills football of the last 12 years that you're just ragging on everyone.

 

I think too many people discount how good of a coach he was because of his lackluster outing as a GM.

 

Marv was a great coach!!!! Do you really think it is just a fluke that he is in the HOF and still considered one

of the 20 best of all time?

 

Oh right, it's just because he got lucky to have great players...

What about Shula having Unitas, Griese, and Marino

Or Jimmy Johnson having Aikman, E. Smith, and Johnson...just for a start

Any team that makes a Super Bowl has great/all pro/HOF players. If you say that for

Marv, you have to say that about every other Super Bowl coach

Walsh...Montana, Rice, etc

Knoll...Bradshaw, Greene, Stallworth, Franco, Swan, etc.

That is just such a bad argument.

 

That Bills team was full of egos...Marv united them, made them a family. It was war, us against them,

being accountable to the other men in the trenches with you. He inspired that team. Do you really

think without Marv's leadership they would have gone to the Bowl 4 times? No, that team would have

been at each other's throats (remember the bickering Bills) and imploded. They persevered because

of what Marv instilled in them. They didn't achieve in spite of him, they achieved because of him.

 

He may not have been the architect of the K-gun/no-huddle, but he definitely had a hand in it (if you remember

how it came about---after the Cincinatti game) and he had the final say on using it, how they would use it,

allowing his QB to call the plays, etc. and ended up overseeing one of the most prolific offenses

ever. And it was due to Marv that Special Teams became important again league-wide and made a name

for Steve Tasker and Mark Pike.

 

What? Marv was only a .500 coach in the NFL before coming to Buffalo?...Well, Bill Belichick was under .500 in 5 years

at Cleveland and 1 year in New England before Brady took over. Marv also coached in the Canadian League.

In 5 years up in Canada, he was in the Grey Cup (their Super Bowl) 3 out of 5 years, winning 2. And although,

his time with the Chiefs wasn't completely successful, he had inherited a horrendous 2-12 team and each year

they improved to 4, 7, 8 wins, then 9-7 in 1981 (before a strike shortened season).

 

The reason we failed in the Super Bowls was because the league was changing at that time to bigger, beefier

offensive lines and our small 3-man front couldn't stop the run consistently enough against those new O-lines

(Washington and Dallas). And sure the Giants (Parcells and Belichick) had a good game plan in SB XXV to

use a time sucking ground attack to keep the Bills offense off the field, but it's not like he was severely out coached,

we lost the game by 1 point for Christ's sake and if Norwood's FG goes through we would have won. And don't forget,

in week 15 of that same year, we had beaten that same Giants team in the Meadowlands 17-13. Those teams were so evenly

matched and those were two hard fought, close games.

 

Marv is the only coach to go to 4 consecutive Super Bowls (do you know how hard that is even though they lost them)?

He was also the coach of the greatest NFL comeback of all time.

In an 8 year stretch, his Bills won the AFC East 6 times.

He was Skyline Conference Coach of the year both years he coached at the University of New Mexico.

He also won Southern Conference Coach of the Year awards 2 out of 5 years he was at William & Mary.

Won the Annis Stukus Trophy (Coach of the year in the Canadian League) in 1974.

Was NFL Coach of the Year in 1988 and AFC Coach of the Year in 1988, 1993, and 1995.

One of only 2 coaches (Tom Flores was the other) to have a winning record (17-6) against the winningest coach

in the history of the NFL (Shula).

One of only 14 coaches to win at least 100 games with one team.

One of only 2 coaches (Bud Grant, the other) to appear in both Grey Cup Championship and the Super Bowl.

Over a 10 year span (1988-1997), an entire decade, the Bills won more games than any team in the AFC and

2nd only to San Francisco in the entire NFL (I'm sure coaching had nothing to do with that...right?)

 

 

I just don't understand this revisionist history. Give the man his due and have some respect for not only one

of the best Bills coaches ever, but one of the best of all-time.

 

"Where would you rather be than right here, right now"

 

"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us."

 

Come on Man!

hes also one of just a few coaches in the HOF without winning a ring and he's got the worst record of the bunch.

 

And I hate to say it because it seems to be so cool around these parts, but those quotes that you love so much, were Marvs originally. He got them from somewhere else. Just like his dumb "Fight on Sir Andrew" poem.

 

He was a babysitter of men, and a bad One at that. That's all. A real coach would have made sure his troops would have been indoors and in beds before the biggest night of their lives. Instead they were all out until 6am blowing coke off stripper asses.

[Nuncha]

Well I think I did - re read the first two sentences of original post. I admire much of what he did, just don't believe he belongs in Hall of Fame.

He lead a team to 4 straight super bowls - That's not enough for the hall of fame? Cmon man! Who else has done that? Not even Bellicheat!

[mrags]

 

He lead a team to 4 straight super bowls - That's not enough for the hall of fame? Cmon man! Who else has done that? Not even Bellicheat!

yeah, The Hoodie has only win 3 as a HC, been to 5 as a HC, and win one as a DC. Against us, no less. Yeah, he doesn't deserve praise.

 

C'mon man. Get off the Marv Sauce.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

Marv had a little Phil Jackson to me (minus the titles). He took an incredibly talented group and won with it. There is something to be said for that. What kind of coach would he have been with the talent of the teams recently -who knows. 17 sounds about right to me.

[Mr. WEO]

Marv had a little Phil Jackson to me (minus the titles). He took an incredibly talented group and won with it. There is something to be said for that. What kind of coach would he have been with the talent of the teams recently -who knows. 17 sounds about right to me.

 

Nah---more like KC Jones of the great Celtics teams of the 80's. They say he "coached" by simply rolling out the ball to midcourt at practice.

 

Few NFL teams have been as satacked on both sides of the ball as Marv's 4 SB teams. To not win a single title tells us more about the coach than anything else. In the last 3, they were simply not prepared well. That exposed Levy.

[Buftex]

hes also one of just a few coaches in the HOF without winning a ring and he's got the worst record of the bunch.

 

 

There are 22 coaches in the Hall Of Fame. Fourteen of them (by my count) spent a substantial amount of their career coaching during the Super Bowl era. Of those 14 Marv Levy does not have the worst winning percentage (Sid Gillman and Weeb Eubanks says hello) and he is not the only one who hasn't won a Super Bowl ring (Bud Grant & Sid Gillman says hello again). Levy's career win percentage (.561) is not worlds below that of other HOF coaches (Parcells .569, Chuck Knoll .566), and better than Eubanks and Gillman. 22 head coaches in, what? 93 years of the Pro Football? Of course, somebody is going to be at the bottom of the list.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Buftex

[Optometric Insight]

Most teams would have quit and been too demoralized to get to another Super Bowl after losing one by one point, Marv made sure they would get back to the Super Bowl. Sure, his players didn't have the greatest life outside of football but he did get them to play their hardest out on the field. He didn't worry about what he couldn't control and took control of what he worried about.

[mrags]

 

 

There are 22 coaches in the Hall Of Fame. Fourteen of them (by my count) spent a substantial amount of their career coaching during the Super Bowl era. Of those 14 Marv Levy does not have the worst winning percentage (Sid Gillman and Weeb Eubanks says hello) and he is not the only one who hasn't won a Super Bowl ring (Sid Gillman says hello again). Levy's career win percentage (.561) is not worlds below that of other HOF coaches (Parcells .569, Chuck Knoll .566), and better than Eubanks and Gillman. 22 head coaches in, what? 93 years of the Pro Football? Of course, somebody is going to be at the bottom of the list.

Parcells and Knoll have SuperBowls to show for it. Multiple SuperBowls at that. I started my comments about Levy having the worst record of the non SuperBowl winning coaches with a disclaimer that I looked at all that information years ago. Stating that I may be wrong. I also said he was "One of the worst" in w/l record.

 

If you love Marv, that's fine. Great. He was the coach of your favorite team during your favorite time. I get it. But he was not a great coach. He was good. He was a leader of baby's. but not a great coach.

 

But hey, the NFL and Canton disagree with me, so why should you be any different.

 

Life's a garden, dig it!!!

[metzelaars_lives]

Never liked Levy after his anti hunting remarks. Stick with football butt wipe. I believe it was Kent Hull [God bless em] who showed up at the next players meeting in full hunting camo to show the old fart what he thought about it.

 

You've made one too many nutty posts for my liking. So the guy doesn't like hunting. Neither do I. It blows my mind how people on here show so much disrespect for Marv Levy time and time again. As a Bills fan, that's like dissing your own grandfather. And yes, he had a lot of talent to work with, but lest you're too young to remember, Bruce Smith used to be a showboating cokehead, Jim Kelly was an a**hole, Thurman Thomas was a whiner and a complainer and Marv got all these guys to come together and not only play for eachother but love eachother. They would not have made four consecutive Super Bowls if Marv wasn't able to bring them together. That '89 team was on the brink of complete collapse.

[mrags]

 

 

You've made one too many nutty posts for my liking. So the guy doesn't like hunting. Neither do I. It blows my mind how people on here show so much disrespect for Marv Levy time and time again. As a Bills fan, that's like dissing your own grandfather. And yes, he had a lot of talent to work with, but lest you're too young to remember, Bruce Smith used to be a showboating cokehead, Jim Kelly was an a**hole, Thurman Thomas was a whiner and a complainer and Marv got all these guys to come together and not only play for eachother but love eachother. They would not have made four consecutive Super Bowls if Marv wasn't able to bring them together. That '89 team was on the brink of complete collapse.

i won't argue your opinion of Jim ;-)

 

But in all fairness, Bruce Smith is most likely still a coke head, at least was when he played. Kelly was always a drunk and Thurman always a whiner. Don't forget Reed.

 

That doesn't mean they were extremely take Ted and would t have win without Marv though.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

Honestly, you people do not know what you're talking about. You were either too young to watch Marv

as a coach or you're so disgusted with Bills football of the last 12 years that you're just ragging on everyone.

 

I think too many people discount how good of a coach he was because of his lackluster outing as a GM.

 

Marv was a great coach!!!! Do you really think it is just a fluke that he is in the HOF and still considered one

of the 20 best of all time?

 

Oh right, it's just because he got lucky to have great players...

What about Shula having Unitas, Griese, and Marino

Or Jimmy Johnson having Aikman, E. Smith, and Johnson...just for a start

Any team that makes a Super Bowl has great/all pro/HOF players. If you say that for

Marv, you have to say that about every other Super Bowl coach

Walsh...Montana, Rice, etc

Knoll...Bradshaw, Greene, Stallworth, Franco, Swan, etc.

That is just such a bad argument.

 

That Bills team was full of egos...Marv united them, made them a family. It was war, us against them,

being accountable to the other men in the trenches with you. He inspired that team. Do you really

think without Marv's leadership they would have gone to the Bowl 4 times? No, that team would have

been at each other's throats (remember the bickering Bills) and imploded. They persevered because

of what Marv instilled in them. They didn't achieve in spite of him, they achieved because of him.

 

He may not have been the architect of the K-gun/no-huddle, but he definitely had a hand in it (if you remember

how it came about---after the Cincinatti game) and he had the final say on using it, how they would use it,

allowing his QB to call the plays, etc. and ended up overseeing one of the most prolific offenses

ever. And it was due to Marv that Special Teams became important again league-wide and made a name

for Steve Tasker and Mark Pike.

 

What? Marv was only a .500 coach in the NFL before coming to Buffalo?...Well, Bill Belichick was under .500 in 5 years

at Cleveland and 1 year in New England before Brady took over. Marv also coached in the Canadian League.

In 5 years up in Canada, he was in the Grey Cup (their Super Bowl) 3 out of 5 years, winning 2. And although,

his time with the Chiefs wasn't completely successful, he had inherited a horrendous 2-12 team and each year

they improved to 4, 7, 8 wins, then 9-7 in 1981 (before a strike shortened season).

 

The reason we failed in the Super Bowls was because the league was changing at that time to bigger, beefier

offensive lines and our small 3-man front couldn't stop the run consistently enough against those new O-lines

(Washington and Dallas). And sure the Giants (Parcells and Belichick) had a good game plan in SB XXV to

use a time sucking ground attack to keep the Bills offense off the field, but it's not like he was severely out coached,

we lost the game by 1 point for Christ's sake and if Norwood's FG goes through we would have won. And don't forget,

in week 15 of that same year, we had beaten that same Giants team in the Meadowlands 17-13. Those teams were so evenly

matched and those were two hard fought, close games.

 

Marv is the only coach to go to 4 consecutive Super Bowls (do you know how hard that is even though they lost them)?

He was also the coach of the greatest NFL comeback of all time.

In an 8 year stretch, his Bills won the AFC East 6 times.

He was Skyline Conference Coach of the year both years he coached at the University of New Mexico.

He also won Southern Conference Coach of the Year awards 2 out of 5 years he was at William & Mary.

Won the Annis Stukus Trophy (Coach of the year in the Canadian League) in 1974.

Was NFL Coach of the Year in 1988 and AFC Coach of the Year in 1988, 1993, and 1995.

One of only 2 coaches (Tom Flores was the other) to have a winning record (17-6) against the winningest coach

in the history of the NFL (Shula).

One of only 14 coaches to win at least 100 games with one team.

One of only 2 coaches (Bud Grant, the other) to appear in both Grey Cup Championship and the Super Bowl.

Over a 10 year span (1988-1997), an entire decade, the Bills won more games than any team in the AFC and

2nd only to San Francisco in the entire NFL (I'm sure coaching had nothing to do with that...right?)

 

 

I just don't understand this revisionist history. Give the man his due and have some respect for not only one

of the best Bills coaches ever, but one of the best of all-time.

 

"Where would you rather be than right here, right now"

 

"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us."

 

Come on Man!

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Great post.

 

Super Bowl fever makes people insane. Winning the Super Bowl is a huge crapshoot. So many things have to go right. A few plays go differently and Brady and Belichick have won zero. Or five. (I think they are both all-timers, BTW.)

 

The way to judge a coach or team is consistency in terms of being in the hunt. Marv and the gang couldn't win the big game because they lost 4 Super Bowls (3 against superior and/or extremely hot teams)? Really? Those conference championship games weren't big? Those other playoff games? Those comebacks? Those division clinchers? Those games against arch rivals like the Dolphins who had been pounding the Bills for years? Those Monday nighters?

 

Marv's Bills won a donkey load of big games. They were competitive and entertaining and resilient for a decade. They were a joy to watch. But sure, Marv had nothing to do with it.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Last Guy on the Bench

[Buftex]

Parcells and Knoll have SuperBowls to show for it. Multiple SuperBowls at that. I started my comments about Levy having the worst record of the non SuperBowl winning coaches with a disclaimer that I looked at all that information years ago. Stating that I may be wrong. I also said he was "One of the worst" in w/l record.

 

If you love Marv, that's fine. Great. He was the coach of your favorite team during your favorite time. I get it. But he was not a great coach. He was good. He was a leader of baby's. but not a great coach.

 

But hey, the NFL and Canton disagree with me, so why should you be any different.

 

Life's a garden, dig it!!!

 

104 opportunites for a head coach to win a Super Bowl. You know how many have won one? 28 different coaches have won at least one Super Bowl. 21 different guys have earned an opportunity, only to come away empty handed. I wish I could find out (easily) how many head coaches there have been in the NFL during the Super Bowl era...I am sure it is in the multiple hundreds. Its' not as if it is the easiest thing to do.

 

I understand your point (and the 1990's were not my favorite times as a Bills fan!), but the attitude that the only thing that validates greatness as a head coach is a Super Bowl ring is kind of sad. Was Barry Switzer a better head coach than Marv Levy, Dan Reeves or Bud Grant?

[mrags]

 

 

104 opportunites for a head coach to win a Super Bowl. You know how many have won one? 28 different coaches have won at least one Super Bowl. 21 different guys have earned an opportunity, only to come away empty handed. I wish I could find out (easily) how many head coaches there have been in the NFL during the Super Bowl era...I am sure it is in the multiple hundreds. Its' not as if it is the easiest thing to do.

 

I understand your point (and the 1990's were not my favorite times as a Bills fan!), but the attitude that the only thing that validates greatness as a head coach is a Super Bowl ring is kind of sad. Was Barry Switzer a better head coach than Marv Levy, Dan Reeves or Bud Grant?

like I said, I don't argue with the fact that Marv was a good coach. A really good coach. I guess my fight is with the NFL. I don't believe any coach should be in the HOF without a ring.

[Nitro]

Honestly, you people do not know what you're talking about. You were either too young to watch Marv

as a coach or you're so disgusted with Bills football of the last 12 years that you're just ragging on everyone.

 

I think too many people discount how good of a coach he was because of his lackluster outing as a GM.

 

Marv was a great coach!!!! Do you really think it is just a fluke that he is in the HOF and still considered one

of the 20 best of all time?

 

Oh right, it's just because he got lucky to have great players...

What about Shula having Unitas, Griese, and Marino

Or Jimmy Johnson having Aikman, E. Smith, and Johnson...just for a start

Any team that makes a Super Bowl has great/all pro/HOF players. If you say that for

Marv, you have to say that about every other Super Bowl coach

Walsh...Montana, Rice, etc

Knoll...Bradshaw, Greene, Stallworth, Franco, Swan, etc.

That is just such a bad argument.

 

That Bills team was full of egos...Marv united them, made them a family. It was war, us against them,

being accountable to the other men in the trenches with you. He inspired that team. Do you really

think without Marv's leadership they would have gone to the Bowl 4 times? No, that team would have

been at each other's throats (remember the bickering Bills) and imploded. They persevered because

of what Marv instilled in them. They didn't achieve in spite of him, they achieved because of him.

 

He may not have been the architect of the K-gun/no-huddle, but he definitely had a hand in it (if you remember

how it came about---after the Cincinatti game) and he had the final say on using it, how they would use it,

allowing his QB to call the plays, etc. and ended up overseeing one of the most prolific offenses

ever. And it was due to Marv that Special Teams became important again league-wide and made a name

for Steve Tasker and Mark Pike.

 

What? Marv was only a .500 coach in the NFL before coming to Buffalo?...Well, Bill Belichick was under .500 in 5 years

at Cleveland and 1 year in New England before Brady took over. Marv also coached in the Canadian League.

In 5 years up in Canada, he was in the Grey Cup (their Super Bowl) 3 out of 5 years, winning 2. And although,

his time with the Chiefs wasn't completely successful, he had inherited a horrendous 2-12 team and each year

they improved to 4, 7, 8 wins, then 9-7 in 1981 (before a strike shortened season).

 

The reason we failed in the Super Bowls was because the league was changing at that time to bigger, beefier

offensive lines and our small 3-man front couldn't stop the run consistently enough against those new O-lines

(Washington and Dallas). And sure the Giants (Parcells and Belichick) had a good game plan in SB XXV to

use a time sucking ground attack to keep the Bills offense off the field, but it's not like he was severely out coached,

we lost the game by 1 point for Christ's sake and if Norwood's FG goes through we would have won. And don't forget,

in week 15 of that same year, we had beaten that same Giants team in the Meadowlands 17-13. Those teams were so evenly

matched and those were two hard fought, close games.

 

Marv is the only coach to go to 4 consecutive Super Bowls (do you know how hard that is even though they lost them)?

He was also the coach of the greatest NFL comeback of all time.

In an 8 year stretch, his Bills won the AFC East 6 times.

He was Skyline Conference Coach of the year both years he coached at the University of New Mexico.

He also won Southern Conference Coach of the Year awards 2 out of 5 years he was at William & Mary.

Won the Annis Stukus Trophy (Coach of the year in the Canadian League) in 1974.

Was NFL Coach of the Year in 1988 and AFC Coach of the Year in 1988, 1993, and 1995.

One of only 2 coaches (Tom Flores was the other) to have a winning record (17-6) against the winningest coach

in the history of the NFL (Shula).

One of only 14 coaches to win at least 100 games with one team.

One of only 2 coaches (Bud Grant, the other) to appear in both Grey Cup Championship and the Super Bowl.

Over a 10 year span (1988-1997), an entire decade, the Bills won more games than any team in the AFC and

2nd only to San Francisco in the entire NFL (I'm sure coaching had nothing to do with that...right?)

 

 

I just don't understand this revisionist history. Give the man his due and have some respect for not only one

of the best Bills coaches ever, but one of the best of all-time.

 

"Where would you rather be than right here, right now"

 

"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us."

 

Come on Man!

Nailed it.

[Buftex]

like I said, I don't argue with the fact that Marv was a good coach. A really good coach. I guess my fight is with the NFL. I don't believe any coach should be in the HOF without a ring.

 

And I think that is silly.

[bbb]

The 1-15 turnaround also included Belichek as the DC. In Dallas, Parcells had the luxury of another great DC in Wade Phillips. Finally, his stint in Miami showed that he was indeed missing those key parts.

Having said that, I would like to state that, NFL is the ultimate team sport and it requires all of them (53 players and the many Coaches) and excellent players at skill positions to put out a winning program.

 

I don't think any one is rewriting history. Parcells was another good HC in the NFL.

 

Can't believe I'm sticking up for Parcells, but didn't he take a team that won one game in Miami and have them win the division the next year?

 

He really was great at taking teams that sucked and have them in contention in very short order.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Great post.

 

Super Bowl fever makes people insane. Winning the Super Bowl is a huge crapshoot. So many things have to go right. A few plays go differently and Brady and Belichick have won zero. Or five. (I think they are both all-timers, BTW.)

 

The way to judge a coach or team is consistency in terms of being in the hunt. Marv and the gang couldn't win the big game because they lost 4 Super Bowls (3 against superior and/or extremely hot teams)? Really? Those conference championship games weren't big? Those other playoff games? Those comebacks? Those division clinchers? Those games against arch rivals like the Dolphins who had been pounding the Bills for years? Those Monday nighters?

 

Marv's Bills won a donkey load of big games. They were competitive and entertaining and resilient for a decade. They were a joy to watch. But sure, Marv had nothing to do with it.

 

I hate when people saying he can't win the big one. As Rick Reilly said, he won two Grey Cups..........To get to the Super Bowl, you have to win a hell of a lot of big games. The biggest regular season game in Bills history was 12/23/90 vs. Dolphins. He won that with his backup QB. I think AFC Championships are big games, too!

 

If Norwood's kick goes a few feet to the left, suddenly Marv is a coach who can win the big one, right?