Buffalo Mike1 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/2/1/3940286/top-10-buffalo-bills-prospects-under-age-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Well, he did only go to kallage for only three years. He was a starter all three though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covac23 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 That is why I never jumped on the "Why is Marcell underperforming this year?" train. He's really still a kid in a grown man's body who I think, hard a time dealing with his brother's untimely murder. Â But what's really disappointing is when you type "Marcell Dareus" in Google, the third result is "bust." The fact that some are putting Marcell in the same category as Aaron Maybin as a "Bust" isn't right. Â GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 That is why I never jumped on the "Why is Marcell underperforming this year?" train. He's really still a kid in a grown man's body who I think, hard a time dealing with his brother's untimely murder. Â But what's really disappointing is when you type "Marcell Dareus" in Google, the third result is "bust." The fact that some are putting Marcell in the same category as Aaron Maybin as a "Bust" isn't right. Â GO BILLS!!! In one way he could be worse since he was drafted a full 8 spots ahead of maybin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 That's interesting because the NFL website has his birthday as 11/18/89. You'd think they'd know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covac23 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 In one way he could be worse since he was drafted a full 8 spots ahead of maybin. Â IMO, the two are incomparable considering Marcell has been productive in professional football, unlike Maybin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 In one way he could be worse since he was drafted a full 8 spots ahead of maybin. Â True... Â There are similarities in that the Bills passed on some very, very good players to Draft Maybin...But the list of talent they passed on to Draft Marcell is scary...And I'm not even saying that Dareus was not the right pick for The Bills at the time...But good grief...Green, Peterson, Jones, Watt, and Smith!!! Oh man... Â I have not given up on the kid either...Not by a long-shot...I'm hoping the first thing Pettine told him was that he needs to drop 25 lbs by Camp...I think with some proper guidance and Coaching Marcell could be very good...But the clock is ticking...And he darn well better improve REAL fast if he expects to be in the conversation with the massive amount of talent that came out of his Draft class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I was quite vocal on this board about wanting green or peterson ahead of him. Green is a no brainer now (I bet 32 of 32 teams would rather have him) and I bet a majority would rather have Peterson too. Marcel just lacks a burst, leverage and a certain dynamism to ever be in a ngata or wilfork category. Which is what I want out of a #3 overall 330+ DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) I was quite vocal on this board about wanting green or peterson ahead of him. Green is a no brainer now (I bet 32 of 32 teams would rather have him) and I bet a majority would rather have Peterson too. Marcel just lacks a burst, leverage and a certain dynamism to ever be in a ngata or wilfork category. Which is what I want out of a #3 overall 330+ DT. Â I remember that Joe! It's funny because a lot of folks thought Marcell was a BPA pick...But some, like you, felt that Green was clearly the BPA...I absolutely remember reading that right here in the days leading up to the Draft...Others felt Peterson was...It was no where near clear cut that Dareus was the best player on the board at #3... Â And yes Green is a beast...But you know what? So is Julio Jones...I think 32 out of 32 would take either of them over Marcell...It's a hard pill to swallow...It's not like you can just point to one guy and say we missed...It's the whole lot of them...Special, special, talent...All-Pro talent...Defensive Player Of The Year talent... Â Oh well... Edited February 4, 2013 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I was quite vocal on this board about wanting green or peterson ahead of him. Green is a no brainer now (I bet 32 of 32 teams would rather have him) and I bet a majority would rather have Peterson too. Marcel just lacks a burst, leverage and a certain dynamism to ever be in a ngata or wilfork category. Which is what I want out of a #3 overall 330+ DT. Â I'd rather have Watt but give the kid a chance, and this will be his third defense in 3 yrs so don't be surprised if we start out slow again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'd rather have Watt but give the kid a chance, and this will be his third defense in 3 yrs so don't be surprised if we start out slow again. Â I'm sure most Bills fans are more than willing to have patience with Dareus...But he's a DT...It's not rocket-science...I don't think scheme is what has held, or what will hold, Dareus back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I was quite vocal on this board about wanting green or peterson ahead of him. Green is a no brainer now (I bet 32 of 32 teams would rather have him) and I bet a majority would rather have Peterson too. Marcel just lacks a burst, leverage and a certain dynamism to ever be in a ngata or wilfork category. Which is what I want out of a #3 overall 330+ DT. How long did it take Wilfork to become dominant? Ngata is playing with a HOF MLB behind him and superstars to the right and left. Maybe you should give Dareus a little more time. Â I'm sure most Bills fans are more than willing to have patience with Dareus...But he's a DT...It's not rocket-science...I don't think scheme is what has held, or what will hold, Dareus back... Wrong thinkning. DT is one of the most difficult positions to excel at early into an NFL career. WR being probably the most difficult. DT's can take years to develop. Is this physical or mental? I don't know. I beleive there is a lot more technique with regard to using hands for leverage, angles, and ability to read run/pass. I think you are simplifying the position too much. However it could be just physical. Maybe these guys simply need to continue to mature (or get juiced the NFL way) to handle the pounding of a NFL 16 game schedule playing against NFL quality lineman. So again I say - give him time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Wrong thinkning. DT is one of the most difficult positions to excel at early into an NFL career. WR being probably the most difficult. DT's can take years to develop. Is this physical or mental? I don't know. I beleive there is a lot more technique with regard to using hands for leverage, angles, and ability to read run/pass. I think you are simplifying the position too much. Â That's what I think as well but feel that QB is the hardest position to master because you have know everything and there is so much more pressure on them to do well than every other position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 How long did it take Wilfork to become dominant? Ngata is playing with a HOF MLB behind him and superstars to the right and left. Maybe you should give Dareus a little more time. Â Â Wrong thinkning. DT is one of the most difficult positions to excel at early into an NFL career. WR being probably the most difficult. DT's can take years to develop. Is this physical or mental? I don't know. I beleive there is a lot more technique with regard to using hands for leverage, angles, and ability to read run/pass. I think you are simplifying the position too much. However it could be just physical. Maybe these guys simply need to continue to mature (or get juiced the NFL way) to handle the pounding of a NFL 16 game schedule playing against NFL quality lineman. So again I say - give him time. So DE is easy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 That's what I think as well but feel that QB is the hardest position to master because you have know everything and there is so much more pressure on them to do well than every other position. How many QB's aren't good for a few years and then suddenly are great? Not many. Flacco may be the best argument for that kind of career trajectory though he was never bad early on. Fortunately or unfortunately with QB it looks like they either get it or they don't early in their career. The good of that is you can give up on a guy after 16-32 starts. There is enough film to know at that point that he is not going to make it. We know now Fitz is awful but NIx decided to pull the trigger on a new deal(negotiating against himself again) after too small of a sample size. Sanchez is done in New York. He will get another year due to his contract but I doubt he starts by week 8. If we draft a guy in round one or two this year they don't have to wait around until 2018 to know if he is the next great one. Â So DE is easy? No position is easy but I would argue DE is easier to make an impact early. Most of the obstacles they face are in front of them - ie an offensive tackle and maybe a RB to chip them. Now your point will be more interesting in the next couple of years as the read option becomes more commonly used. As you know the read by the QB is on the DE. The DE will be faced with more choices against this type of play. Going against a more traditional offense they are either running at or away from you or you are rushing the passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hater Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 That is why I never jumped on the "Why is Marcell underperforming this year?" train. He's really still a kid in a grown man's body who I think, hard a time dealing with his brother's untimely murder. Â But what's really disappointing is when you type "Marcell Dareus" in Google, the third result is "bust." The fact that some are putting Marcell in the same category as Aaron Maybin as a "Bust" isn't right. Â GO BILLS!!! Â That's Right He is still a kid, He has Only Played 2 Season, what do people think, he's going have 30 sacks or was that Mario that's supposed to have 30 sacks, Bills Fans need to relax Marcell & Mario are doing what they are supposed to do, the whole line needs time to gel together then better results are going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Dareus' 11 career sacks put him in top 20 sacks for Bills all-time. Compared to other DTs Dareus is top statistical leader among DTs drafted in 2011. We could have missed on Nick Fairley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Dareus' 11 career sacks put him in top 20 sacks for Bills all-time. Compared to other DTs Dareus is top statistical leader among DTs drafted in 2011. We could have missed on Nick Fairley. Â Pointing out who else we could have missed on hardly strengthens your argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Unless he improves, he will go down as a bust. But not in the Maybin sort of way. He was drafted at #3, and is playing like a second round pick. Solid, decent, but not great. Whereas Maybin was drafted at (I forget) and plays like he shouldn't have been drafted at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Pointing out who else we could have missed on hardly strengthens your argument... Especially since Fairley's 2nd season he put comparable #'s to Dareus, while playing in 3 fewer games  2012 Tackles Sacks Forced Fumbles Dareus 39 5.5 0 Fairley 34 5.5 2 Edited February 4, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Â Â Pointing out who else we could have missed on hardly strengthens your argument... Â So by saying he's the top DT taken in '11 I somehow am not making a good argument? As if DTs are as valuable as kickers or punters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) That is why I never jumped on the "Why is Marcell underperforming this year?" train. He's really still a kid in a grown man's body who I think, hard a time dealing with his brother's untimely murder. Â How long does this last? Month? 6 months? Year? 5 years? Here's an idea, "hey my brother died I'm dedicating my play in his honor". Or did he just roll over and take the season off? Edited February 4, 2013 by MarkyMannn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 How long does this last? Month? 6 months? Year? 5 years? Here's an idea, "hey my brother died I'm dedicating my play in his honor". Or did he just roll over and take the season off? Yeah that excuse got old. Next year well it's a new defense. Give him time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Â How many QB's aren't good for a few years and then suddenly are great? Not many. Â Eli is the poster boy for taking time to get there and a good number of the other guys were riding the pine instead of getting thrown to the wolves like Brady, Rodgers, Schaub. Even probowler luck had a sub fitz passer rating which will need to get a lot better if he expects to become a great QB... Â This season is either an incredible anomaly or the game has changed as RG3 and Wilson had very good seasons. I suspect the key in similarity to college offenses. Â Just saying it takes time. Our own spiller is a prime example at one of the easier positions on the field. Â Â Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covac23 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 How long does this last? Month? 6 months? Year? 5 years? Here's an idea, "hey my brother died I'm dedicating my play in his honor". Or did he just roll over and take the season off?  I understand you're pointing out that Marcell had a job to do, irregardless of personal life issues, like any employer would like at it. But putting a timetable on someone's grieving period is something I don't think I can agree with. He even said it took a toll on him personally and professionally. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/12/13/3762506/buffalo-bills-marcell-dareus-simeon-gilmore-murder  But to answer your question, you should ask someone who's little brother was murdered and they'll be able to tell you how long it lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 No DT that averages 5 sacks a year is a bust. Anyone who says that is a !@#$ing idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 How long does this last? Month? 6 months? Year? 5 years? Here's an idea, "hey my brother died I'm dedicating my play in his honor". Or did he just roll over and take the season off? Â It's also when people tell other people how to grieve. I'm sure if your brother got murdered (after your mother and grandmother both died earlier), you'd just get over it and be fine. What a crock of crap. Â He was the Defensive MVP of the title game and the best defensive player on the best team in the country. He's dealt with things at a young age that would have broken a lot of people. People need to get off his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covac23 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 It's also when people tell other people how to grieve. I'm sure if your brother got murdered (after your mother and grandmother both died earlier), you'd just get over it and be fine. What a crock of crap. Â He was the Defensive MVP of the title game and the best defensive player on the best team in the country. He's dealt with things at a young age that would have broken a lot of people. People need to get off his back. Â Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) I was quite vocal on this board about wanting green or peterson ahead of him. Green is a no brainer now (I bet 32 of 32 teams would rather have him) and I bet a majority would rather have Peterson too. Marcel just lacks a burst, leverage and a certain dynamism to ever be in a ngata or wilfork category. Which is what I want out of a #3 overall 330+ DT. Â Is it just me (could be) or is there a trend of Alabama D-lineman under-performing in the NFL compared to their expectations (Marcell and Cody). ? And no, I'm not calling Marcell a bust, but he's playing more like a 2nd rounder. Although, just like CB Williams, I will give him a pass on last year w/ Wanny in charge. Looking forward to seeing an attacking D in Buffalo FINALLY! Edited February 4, 2013 by RyanC883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 How long does this last? Month? 6 months? Year? 5 years? Here's an idea, "hey my brother died I'm dedicating my play in his honor". Or did he just roll over and take the season off? It's not that his brother died, he was MURDERED! To me that adds another dimension to get over, but hey we're not all as tough as others. Did you really see a guy who rolled over and took the season off?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Wrong thinkning. DT is one of the most difficult positions to excel at early into an NFL career. WR being probably the most difficult. DT's can take years to develop. Is this physical or mental? I don't know. I beleive there is a lot more technique with regard to using hands for leverage, angles, and ability to read run/pass. I think you are simplifying the position too much. However it could be just physical. Maybe these guys simply need to continue to mature (or get juiced the NFL way) to handle the pounding of a NFL 16 game schedule playing against NFL quality lineman. So again I say - give him time. Â No it's not wrong thinking...It's my opinion and you have yours...See how that works? Â And trying to point out obvious things about the DT position that I already know, and you assume I don't, does not mean I'm thinking wrong whatsoever...Watch the film...I have...Watch Dareus get stood up down after down on some of the worst run Defenses we have EVER seen in Buffalo...Ever... Â Look I'm willing to give Dareus time...I have to be willing because we're stuck with him...He has shown flashes of what made him such a high pick...But consistency? There is none...And I'd like nothing more than for him to be the next great NFL DT...He was my Avatar on here for almost 2 years...I love the kid...But I don't think it's about scheme, or thinking, or any of that...It think it's about him being overweight #1...#2, I think it's about Marcell being so used to dominating with his obvious physical skills in College, then getting to the NFL and finding out everyone is good, everyone is strong, everyone is quick, etc, etc...He does not win enough at the LOS...Period...He gets stood up and blocked WAY too easily for a DT that got picked #3 overall...Just watch the tape...It's not a scheme problem on most plays...It's an initial step, get stood up, and neutralized problem WAY too much... Â I'm sorry but this Dareus thing is starting to remind me way too much of the arguments we all had about Fitz two years ago...Some Bills fans are watching the plays with their hearts and are missing the obvious...And for those who are assuming that Dareus is really good and just needs time to continue to improve I'll ask the same thing I asked about Fitz two years ago. What if he does not improve? What if he is exactly what you see with your own two eyes and that's just who he is as a player? What then? It's great to hope, but until he does it, it's just hollow speculation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Well, he did only go to kallage for only three years. He was a starter all three though. Â It's kollege Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 When Pettine gets his hands on him and molds him into the player he should be.....a lot of people will shut up about the pick. Â Personally I think Marcel has the potential to be a absolute beast difference maker....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I understand you're pointing out that Marcell had a job to do, irregardless of personal life issues, like any employer would like at it. But putting a timetable on someone's grieving period is something I don't think I can agree with. He even said it took a toll on him personally and professionally. http://www.buffaloru...-gilmore-murder  But to answer your question, you should ask someone who's little brother was murdered and they'll be able to tell you how long it lasts. This^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 No it's not wrong thinking...It's my opinion and you have yours...See how that works? Â And trying to point out obvious things about the DT position that I already know, and you assume I don't, does not mean I'm thinking wrong whatsoever...Watch the film...I have...Watch Dareus get stood up down after down on some of the worst run Defenses we have EVER seen in Buffalo...Ever... Â Look I'm willing to give Dareus time...I have to be willing because we're stuck with him...He has shown flashes of what made him such a high pick...But consistency? There is none...And I'd like nothing more than for him to be the next great NFL DT...He was my Avatar on here for almost 2 years...I love the kid...But I don't think it's about scheme, or thinking, or any of that...It think it's about him being overweight #1...#2, I think it's about Marcell being so used to dominating with his obvious physical skills in College, then getting to the NFL and finding out everyone is good, everyone is strong, everyone is quick, etc, etc...He does not win enough at the LOS...Period...He gets stood up and blocked WAY too easily for a DT that got picked #3 overall...Just watch the tape...It's not a scheme problem on most plays...It's an initial step, get stood up, and neutralized problem WAY too much... Â I'm sorry but this Dareus thing is starting to remind me way too much of the arguments we all had about Fitz two years ago...Some Bills fans are watching the plays with their hearts and are missing the obvious...And for those who are assuming that Dareus is really good and just needs time to continue to improve I'll ask the same thing I asked about Fitz two years ago. What if he does not improve? What if he is exactly what you see with your own two eyes and that's just who he is as a player? What then? It's great to hope, but until he does it, it's just hollow speculation... Â Are you really comparing Fitz to Dareus? Because that's absolutely insane. Â 1) Fitz played at the Ivy League. Good 1-AA league. Dareus played in the best conference in college football for the national champs. Â 2) Fitz was a 7th rounder, Dareus was the #3 pick in the draft and would have been a top10 pick if the Bilsl didn't take him. Â 3) Dareus just completed his 2nd year. Fitz was in like his 7th year when we got him. Â Seriously, how many of you have lost your mother, grandmother, & brother at age 22? Some of you sound like the biggest pricks in the world. It's no wonder some players hate some fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 As far as I'm concerned, Dareus is lumped in with Aaron Williams, Sheppard, Bradham, Searcy and even Troupe. The Bills need so much help on defense, they have no business casting any assets aside until they find out if they can contribute in this new scheme under a new coach. I can't judge any of them til I see the 2013 Bills play. Â The 2012 version was 11 unicks watching games and dictating nothing. I don't care if they give up a bomb every game. I look forward to pressure and Dareus should benefit greatly from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Well, he did only go to kallage for only three years. He was a starter all three though.  It's kollege  Take it easy on Nanker.  He's a good guy but he just never took his studnies seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Are you really comparing Fitz to Dareus? Because that's absolutely insane. Â 1) Fitz played at the Ivy League. Good 1-AA league. Dareus played in the best conference in college football for the national champs. Â 2) Fitz was a 7th rounder, Dareus was the #3 pick in the draft and would have been a top10 pick if the Bilsl didn't take him. Â 3) Dareus just completed his 2nd year. Fitz was in like his 7th year when we got him. Â Seriously, how many of you have lost your mother, grandmother, & brother at age 22? Some of you sound like the biggest pricks in the world. It's no wonder some players hate some fans. Â So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I did not know he was only 22. Who knows what his ceiling really is. There is no one who played to their potential last season on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 When Pettine gets his hands on him and molds him into the player he should be.....a lot of people will shut up about the pick. Â Personally I think Marcel has the potential to be a absolute beast difference maker....... this ^ dont care if the people/fans? aren't happy or even shut up about him. And he does not need to astound with stats. But he is a key ingredient that needs to get consistent I think he has the potential to become a long term solid fixture here, who gets after it every single game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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