Can anyone remember

[Bob in STL]

After scanning the topics on this board it was really dawned on me how bad things look for the Bills right now. While the team is making some strides in some areas there really has been very little done in the past year to improve this team.

 

Some of the negative stuff:

 

1. Ownership issues - more than any other time there seems to be a lack of a winning comittment. They will make tons of money no matter what.

2. No known succession plan for the inevitable passing of Ralph.

3. Lack of respect from the national media has reached an all time high. Maybe today's journalists have more insight or is it our culture now?

4. Just when we think we have a football man running the show a story leaks that maybe that is not so. (Overdorf and the Evans trade)

5. Front office taking a slow deliberate approach to rebuild, almost a reluctance to bring in better players and depth.

6. Not since the early 70's (prior to Lou Saban's return) have we had so little talent on the roster. At least relative to the rest of the league and especially our division.

 

 

Are things that bad for the Bills or could it be the mass communications blasting away at us? Think about how things are today - sports radio, all sports TV, internet, blogs, tweets, youtube.

 

Seems like the focus is on the negative. I even find it to be happening to me.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Bob in STL

[Haven Moses]

The Kay Stephenson / Stew Barber era was worse.

[CBD]

The Kay Stephenson / Stew Barber era was worse.

What was TSW like back then?

[bowery4]

In a word, yes.

[birdog1960]

After scanning the topics on this board it was really dawned on me how bad things look for the Bills right now. While the team is making some strides in some areas there really has been very little done in the past year to improve this team.

 

Some of the negative stuff:

 

1. Ownership issues - more than any other time there seems to be a lack of a winning comittment. They will make tons of money no matter what.

2. No known succession plan for the inevitable passing of Ralph.

3. Lack of respect from the national media has reached an all time high. Maybe today's journalists have more insight or is it our culture now?

4. Just when we think we have a football man running the show a story leaks that maybe that is not so. (Overdorf and the Evans trade)

5. Front office taking a slow deliberate approach to rebuild, almost a reluctance to bring in better players and depth.

6. Not since the early 70's (prior to Lou Saban's return) have we had so little talent on the roster. At least relative to the rest of the league and especially our division.

 

 

Are things that bad for the Bills or could it be the mass communications blasting away at us? Think about how things are today - sports radio, all sports TV, internet, blogs, tweets, youtube.

 

Seems like the focus is on the negative. I even find it to be happening to me.

i remember sports illustrated's article on buffalo sports in the early 70's. didn't exactly shine a glowing national light on wilson. i suspect after that the writers assumed everyone already knew. but then, the hof! guess not.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

What was TSW like back then?

the internet didnt exist but I would guess it would be about same tone as today. Stew Barber was Ralphs croonie and him and Levy would have a tought competition on who was worse GM ever.

 

Bob I am also feeling less positive that football people are running this show and that Ralph and his inner circle still call many of the shots on drafts, signings, trades etc. The lack of documented succession plan has me more concerned than anything else since thats the only hope for this franchise from my view is that someone who cares and will let football people run the show.

[Albany,n.y.]

After scanning the topics on this board it was really dawned on me how bad things look for the Bills right now. While the team is making some strides in some areas there really has been very little done in the past year to improve this team.

 

Some of the negative stuff:

 

1. Ownership issues - more than any other time there seems to be a lack of a winning comittment. They will make tons of money no matter what.

2. No known succession plan for the inevitable passing of Ralph.

3. Lack of respect from the national media has reached an all time high. Maybe today's journalists have more insight or is it our culture now?

4. Just when we think we have a football man running the show a story leaks that maybe that is not so. (Overdorf and the Evans trade)

5. Front office taking a slow deliberate approach to rebuild, almost a reluctance to bring in better players and depth.

6. Not since the early 70's (prior to Lou Saban's return) have we had so little talent on the roster. At least relative to the rest of the league and especially our division.

 

 

Are things that bad for the Bills or could it be the mass communications blasting away at us? Think about how things are today - sports radio, all sports TV, internet, blogs, tweets, youtube.

 

Seems like the focus is on the negative. I even find it to be happening to me.

26 years ago, 1985, the 2nd season of back to back 2-14 seasons, the Bills were in similar shape. What was worse was in the prior 6 years they had lost 2 of their 1st round picks to other leagues. In 1979 Cousineau became the only player in NFL history to be the top pick in the draft & sign with the CFL and in 1983 Kelly signed with the USFL and we lost Cribbs to the USFL in 1984.

The redeeming factors were we had drafted Bruce Smith in 1985 and maintained the rights to Kelly, who arrived a year later.

[Quinn Early's Ghost]

I think you're right on. It seems that the team is falling apart and no one in the administration is stepping forward to even confront what is happening. I would honestly like to know what Ralph does everyday. He is 92, and running an NFL football team. I imagine him waking up every morning and his handlers having to remind him he owns a team. The Bills are in death throes right now, and it's obvious that no one cares. Ralph can die any day and he's running the team that way. Everyone on these boards is arguing about the state of the team as if a logical, sound person is running the show, that's not the case, so don't expect logical moves to be made.

 

 

After scanning the topics on this board it was really dawned on me how bad things look for the Bills right now. While the team is making some strides in some areas there really has been very little done in the past year to improve this team.

 

Some of the negative stuff:

 

1. Ownership issues - more than any other time there seems to be a lack of a winning comittment. They will make tons of money no matter what.

2. No known succession plan for the inevitable passing of Ralph.

3. Lack of respect from the national media has reached an all time high. Maybe today's journalists have more insight or is it our culture now?

4. Just when we think we have a football man running the show a story leaks that maybe that is not so. (Overdorf and the Evans trade)

5. Front office taking a slow deliberate approach to rebuild, almost a reluctance to bring in better players and depth.

6. Not since the early 70's (prior to Lou Saban's return) have we had so little talent on the roster. At least relative to the rest of the league and especially our division.

 

 

Are things that bad for the Bills or could it be the mass communications blasting away at us? Think about how things are today - sports radio, all sports TV, internet, blogs, tweets, youtube.

 

Seems like the focus is on the negative. I even find it to be happening to me.

[LabattBlue]

The Kay Stephenson / Stew Barber era was worse.

The last two years of the Stephenson era were brutal, but this team could be on par if Fitzpatrick regresses at all. There are holes all over this team...

 

OL - trainwreck

WR - Very little experience. Now counting on a guy who last year struggled with the dropsies to be your #1 guy.

LB - Those that were counting on Merriman to save this woeful group have come back to earth

TE - We don't have one

 

Except for Williams and Dareus, there isn't a player on this roster who is within a country mile of being a star.

[dollars 2 donuts]

The Kay Stephenson / Stew Barber era was worse.

 

 

Haven, I was going to mention this as the time that I most remember coming closest to this. However, maybe it is the fog of memory or I am just plain getting old but this time feels a little worse.

 

Bob, I agree with all your points and to add one more to it: Ralph's age. It is like the Sword of Damocles hanging over the heads of all Bills fans and the future of this team in WNY.

 

...additionally, I've said this before and please forgive me if I sound like an ageist but at more than 92 years of age I just don't think Ralph no longer has the dynamic faculties necessary to be running a billion dollar business.

[Coach Tuesday]

Honestly, this is the worst NFL roster I have ever seen. There is not a single star on this team and there are holes at every single position.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Coach Tuesday

[San Jose Bills Fan]

There's been several VERY low points in this team's history.

 

The late 60s and early 70s were rife with 1 and 2 win seasons before OJ Simpson and Saban helped lift the Bills to some degree of respectability.

 

After Saban and Knox left, the team plunged back into the abyss during the early to mid 80s… the Bullough/Stephenson years.

 

It was very dark as recently as 1998 when the Bills started out 0-3 with Rob Johnson at QB and tickets WERE NOT SELLING enough to trigger the lease extension.

 

Thankfully, Flutie took over and led the team to a 10-3 finish… spurring the ticket sales which likely saved the franchise's future in Buffalo.

 

This season is pivotal in the team's future. We could be entering another dark ages which will culminate in Wilson's death or even, the loss of the franchise by the city of Buffalo.

 

The day of judgement for this team's future in WNY is rapidly arriving. As another poster wrote in a different thread, let's hope that there's a White Knight out there for us.

[Fan in Chicago]

 

Seems like the focus is on the negative. I even find it to be happening to me.

 

Bob, good topic. Not sure about being the most negative time, but it is pretty damn depressing. Particularly after the way these past few weeks have unfolded, I feel partly cheated. As with every new regime, we are prone to give them the benefit of doubt. But, the FO came in with a keep your own and build through the draft philosophy. Well, they have thrown that first part out the window over these past few weeks and entrusting the team largely to rookies and second players on D. On the O side, excuses abound about why we have not upgraded the OL + got rid of a proven veteran in Evans. Finally, these confusing personnel movements and promotions are giving me the feeling that instead of competent football personnel, we have a dysfunctional and divisive set of people at the helm.

[nucci]

1968-1971 and 1984-1985

Edited August 24, 2011 by nucci

[LabattBlue]

There's been several VERY low points in this team's history.

 

The late 60s and early 70s were rife with 1 and 2 win seasons before OJ Simpson and Saban helped lift the Bills to some degree of respectability.

 

After Saban and Knox left, the team plunged back into the abyss during the early to mid 80s… the Bullough/Stephenson years.

 

It was very dark as recently as 1998 when the Bills started out 0-3 with Rob Johnson at QB and tickets WERE NOT SELLING enough to trigger the lease extension.

 

Thankfully, Flutie took over and led the team to a 10-3 finish… spurring the ticket sales which likely saved the franchise's future in Buffalo.

 

This season is pivotal in the team's future. We could be entering another dark ages which will culminate in Wilson's death or even, the loss of the franchise by the city of Buffalo.

 

The day of judgement for this team's future in WNY is rapidly arriving. As another poster wrote in a different thread, let's hope that there's a White Knight out there for us.

Nice summary. Out of 50 years, there really are some dark periods.

[gumby]

Bob, good topic. Not sure about being the most negative time, but it is pretty damn depressing. Particularly after the way these past few weeks have unfolded, I feel partly cheated. As with every new regime, we are prone to give them the benefit of doubt. But, the FO came in with a keep your own and build through the draft philosophy. Well, they have thrown that first part out the window over these past few weeks and entrusting the team largely to rookies and second players on D. On the O side, excuses abound about why we have not upgraded the OL + got rid of a proven veteran in Evans. Finally, these confusing personnel movements and promotions are giving me the feeling that instead of competent football personnel, we have a dysfunctional and divisive set of people at the helm.

 

But this is the way it always has been. Occasionally competent football men run the organization (Saban, Knox, Polian). But the bean counters always undermine them and they are shown the door.

Not surprising that with the last coaching search no legitimate choice wanted the job. That alone should tell you what the rest of the NFL thinks of the Bills operations

[DDD]

Don't worry. When the Bills draft Andrew Luck next year the negativity will stop.

[BillsFanM.D.]

After scanning the topics on this board it was really dawned on me how bad things look for the Bills right now. While the team is making some strides in some areas there really has been very little done in the past year to improve this team.

 

Some of the negative stuff:

 

1. Ownership issues - more than any other time there seems to be a lack of a winning comittment. They will make tons of money no matter what.

2. No known succession plan for the inevitable passing of Ralph.

3. Lack of respect from the national media has reached an all time high. Maybe today's journalists have more insight or is it our culture now?

4. Just when we think we have a football man running the show a story leaks that maybe that is not so. (Overdorf and the Evans trade)

5. Front office taking a slow deliberate approach to rebuild, almost a reluctance to bring in better players and depth.

6. Not since the early 70's (prior to Lou Saban's return) have we had so little talent on the roster. At least relative to the rest of the league and especially our division.

 

 

Are things that bad for the Bills or could it be the mass communications blasting away at us? Think about how things are today - sports radio, all sports TV, internet, blogs, tweets, youtube.

 

Seems like the focus is on the negative. I even find it to be happening to me.

 

From a football standpoint the Bullough/Stephenson era was equally putrid so I agree with a lot of posters here...and putrid is being kind.

In Bob's view, however, the intangibles of Ralph's age and the resultant franchise uncertainty add an additional layer of 'ugh.' I concur with that and it does affect the overall view of the team (for me personally, and I suspect nationally).

Lastly, I thought that just maybe Ralph would catch lightning in a bottle twice by picking a scout to run the team. A 'true football guy.' Nix has football swagger and seems to pull no punches which I enjoy. I thought he had drafted well so far and that, despite our lack of free agent activity, there was a plan in place. Now, after JW's article yesterday, I have that sinking feeling again the the wizard is pulling the strings in the land of OZ. As a result, I think "I" am at an all time low...but still cannot wait for opening day.

[billsfreak]

I have been a die hard Bills fan for almost 40 years now, and personally this is the most negative and hopeless feeling I have ever felt towards my beloved team. That doesn't mean that I cannot wait for the game every sunday, I get the Sunday Ticket every year just to watch my team lose most weekends, but I cheer when something good happens and scream when it doesn't just as much as I did in the 90's when we were winning. I know I am not alone feeling this, but I still get threats from this board that I will be banned if I keep up my negative comments towards the franchise and the owner (I didn't say his name), all of which just stem from my frustration over the past decade plus, of how this team has turned to the laughing stock of the NFL and that it doesn't seem to bother the people in charge. Have there been low points in the history of this franchise, sure, more than there have been high points, but with the moving of the organization hanging over everyones head, almost like a threat coupled with actually playing home games outside the country, the longest non-playoff string in the NFL, poor drafts, letting key players walk, etc. has made this era the pits.

Edited August 24, 2011 by billsfreak

[Bills!Win!]

Honestly, this is the worst NFL roster I have ever seen. There is not a single star on this team and there are holes at every single position.

 

did we get rid of Johnson, Dareus, and Merriman recently??? I have no idea what you're talking about

[Billsguy]

In a word, yes.

 

There were several worse times, but you must be too young to remember. Ralph Wilson has been a screw up for the majority of his 51 years as owner.

[Bob in STL]

The Kay Stephenson / Stew Barber era was worse.

 

 

Maybe so, that was a bad era, but we had less communication outlets to put spin on it.

[PromoTheRobot]

This is the most negative things have been since last season...and the season before that...and so on. Things never change. We were negative at 7-9. We were negative with Flutie/Johnson. We were even negative, to a degree, during the Super Bowl run. Bills fans are by nature negative.

 

PTR

[Haven Moses]

Stew Barber drafted worse than Marv, and he was here twice as long.

[Coach Tuesday]

This is the most negative things have been since last season...and the season before that...and so on. Things never change. We were negative at 7-9. We were negative with Flutie/Johnson. We were even negative, to a degree, during the Super Bowl run. Bills fans are by nature negative.

 

PTR

 

Yeah it's the fans. It has nothing to do with the product. God, you're a sucker.

[PromoTheRobot]

Yeah it's the fans. It has nothing to do with the product. God, you're a sucker.

Read my post again. Bills fans ALWAYS find something to whine about. It doesn't matter how we do on the field. It comes from the victim mentality that living in Buffalo generates.

 

PTR

[LabattBlue]

Sports Bills fans are by nature negative.

 

PTR

I fixed your post.

[PromoTheRobot]

I fixed your post.

You are correct. Go to any message board and I think you'll find that to be true. But Bills fans really crave misery. Even when things go well they are drawn to the negative. e.g...Who talks about Dareus and Merriman any more?

 

PTR

Edited August 24, 2011 by PromoTheRobot

[Bob in STL]

26 years ago, 1985, the 2nd season of back to back 2-14 seasons, the Bills were in similar shape. What was worse was in the prior 6 years they had lost 2 of their 1st round picks to other leagues. In 1979 Cousineau became the only player in NFL history to be the top pick in the draft & sign with the CFL and in 1983 Kelly signed with the USFL and we lost Cribbs to the USFL in 1984.

The redeeming factors were we had drafted Bruce Smith in 1985 and maintained the rights to Kelly, who arrived a year later.

 

Good points. I was going to mention that the era between Chuck Knox and Marv Levy was very grim.

 

Never under-estimate what adding a HoF QB (Kelly) and an all time great defensive player (Smith) can do. Each of this men helped to make the people around them better.

 

did we get rid of Johnson, Dareus, and Merriman recently??? I have no idea what you're talking about

 

 

Kyle williams is the best football player on the team right now. I hope to say I'm wrong and Dareus, Merriman, and Johnson have great seasons.

[billsfreak]

did we get rid of Johnson, Dareus, and Merriman recently??? I have no idea what you're talking about

None of the three you listed are bonafide NFL stars. Johnson has had one good season, as a #2 receiver, with Lee Evans drawing the majority of double teams, he has to prove he can do it consistently and as the #1 guy. Dareus has played in two preseason games? Really? Merriman has to prove that he can stay healthy and that he has anything left in the tank. If there is a star on this team it would be Kyle Williams, and he is just approaching that level. I do agree with the other poster, this is one of the, if not the worst NFL roster I have ever seen.

[Bufcomments]

Bob in STL...I hear ya, after 11 years of not making the playoffs and the STRONG possible 12th I am in a funk over this team.

 

I love em to death but they just may cause mine over a broken heart lol

 

Thurman Thomas said things wont change until Ralph passes on, ( I dont wish death on NOBODY but Ralph is living on borrowed time now) sadly I think this is true.

 

I think they care but they just keep on making bad judgements with Lee Evans being the latest one.

 

Hard to cheer them on but that is what I will do until they leave town or I die.

 

Bills Fan for life baby.

[Mike in Syracuse]

Nothing holds a candle to the Flutie vs. Johnson era!

[section122]

I'm a third generation bills fan and started rooting for the bills the year ronnie harmon dropped the ball in the endzone. I missed the early 80s misery the 60 and 70s misery. If I could I would leave the bills but they are like an ex girlfriend who cheats, has a drug problem, and is absolutely no good for you... and for some reason you can't say goodbye.

I wish I could be a steelers fan or a giants but I'm not I'm a bills fan and at this point people don't even laugh at me like they did after the sb years. They just say wow that sucks - I didn't think anyone still rooted for them, and I live in cny!

Things are bad real bad and it seems the fans are the only ones who care. I don't know how much longer I can do that. If there is no commitment by this team to try and put a good product on the field I can't keep caring - its not fair to myself and it sucks to feel that way about my favorite team in my favorite sport.

[skibum]

26 years ago, 1985, the 2nd season of back to back 2-14 seasons, the Bills were in similar shape. What was worse was in the prior 6 years they had lost 2 of their 1st round picks to other leagues. In 1979 Cousineau became the only player in NFL history to be the top pick in the draft & sign with the CFL and in 1983 Kelly signed with the USFL and we lost Cribbs to the USFL in 1984.

The redeeming factors were we had drafted Bruce Smith in 1985 and maintained the rights to Kelly, who arrived a year later.

 

Agreed. I remember the Rochester D&C publishing a spoof on the Bears' Super Bowl Shuffle, called "The Stupor Bowl Shuffle", mocking the utter aimlessness of the Bills' franchise.

 

Actually, the Bills have been desperately bad at many points in their history. The '90s were really a fluke for this organization.

[bananathumb]

After scanning the topics on this board it was really dawned on me how bad things look for the Bills right now. While the team is making some strides in some areas there really has been very little done in the past year to improve this team.

 

Some of the negative stuff:

 

1. Ownership issues - more than any other time there seems to be a lack of a winning comittment. They will make tons of money no matter what.

2. No known succession plan for the inevitable passing of Ralph.

3. Lack of respect from the national media has reached an all time high. Maybe today's journalists have more insight or is it our culture now?

4. Just when we think we have a football man running the show a story leaks that maybe that is not so. (Overdorf and the Evans trade)

5. Front office taking a slow deliberate approach to rebuild, almost a reluctance to bring in better players and depth.

6. Not since the early 70's (prior to Lou Saban's return) have we had so little talent on the roster. At least relative to the rest of the league and especially our division.

 

 

Are things that bad for the Bills or could it be the mass communications blasting away at us? Think about how things are today - sports radio, all sports TV, internet, blogs, tweets, youtube.

 

Seems like the focus is on the negative. I even find it to be happening to me.

 

 

I've almost always been negative about the Bills, but you are right in feeling that this is the nadir. Let's just call it WILSON TIME

(sort of the opposite of MILLER TIME).

[Ennjay]

Some of the negative stuff:

 

1. Ownership issues - more than any other time there seems to be a lack of a winning comittment. They will make tons of money no matter what.

2. No known succession plan for the inevitable passing of Ralph.

3. Lack of respect from the national media has reached an all time high. Maybe today's journalists have more insight or is it our culture now?

4. Just when we think we have a football man running the show a story leaks that maybe that is not so. (Overdorf and the Evans trade)

5. Front office taking a slow deliberate approach to rebuild, almost a reluctance to bring in better players and depth.

6. Not since the early 70's (prior to Lou Saban's return) have we had so little talent on the roster. At least relative to the rest of the league and especially our division.

 

I agree the pre- and early-OJ years and the mid-80's were pretty grim. But in terms of how bad I felt personally, I bottomed out two years ago after the last preseason game:

 

-- Everything Bob says is true now was true then.

-- The Bills braintrust had committed to a no-huddle offense with no no-huddle personnel.

-- With an awful O-line, they cut a starter. Sure Walker sucked, but who replaced him?

-- With the offense a shambles, Dickie fired his O-coordinator.

-- Wasn't our nominal best defensive player (Aaron Schobel) already hurt?

-- And IIRC, wasn't our nominal best offensive player ("Beastmode") suspended at the start of the season?

 

As bad as they are now, I still think Gailey is better than Jauron as HC, Nix is better than Brandon as GM, the overall staff is better, and the defense is better.

 

Which is not to say things are good. Just not as bad as they were.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Ennjay

[BobbyC81]

OL - trainwreck

WR - Very little experience. Now counting on a guy who last year struggled with the dropsies to be your #1 guy.

LB - Those that were counting on Merriman to save this woeful group have come back to earth

TE - We don't have one

 

Except for Williams and Dareus, there isn't a player on this roster who is within a country mile of being a star.

 

Some of you guys are being too critical and overreacting.

 

1. Merriman is going to help give the Bills their best pass rush in a few seasons

2. N. Barnett is an improvement on Poz at ILB. Sheppard should provide more depth than they've had.

3. Aaron Williams will improve the cornerback play

4. Dareus will help greatly with the rushing defense

5. A year's experience for another budding start in Stevie Johnson should make him even better this year and all of the other young receivers have a season under their belts

6. Wood is an upgrade at center and i believe that Chan will put a OL five on the field that will be better than what started 2010.

7. Scott Chandler has shown to be gaining a rapport with Fitz so I believe his production will be better than what we've seen out of the TE position in a while.

 

All this adds up to a better team than in 2010. Chances are there may not be a significant improvement to the win-loss record, but it'll be an improved team for sure.

[mattsox]

The last two years of the Stephenson era were brutal, but this team could be on par if Fitzpatrick regresses at all. There are holes all over this team...

 

OL - trainwreck

WR - Very little experience. Now counting on a guy who last year struggled with the dropsies to be your #1 guy.

LB - Those that were counting on Merriman to save this woeful group have come back to earth

TE - We don't have one

 

Except for Williams and Dareus, there isn't a player on this roster who is within a country mile of being a star.

 

Jackson and Merriman has potential to be included in the group. But that's all I see. Johnson has to play out of his mind this season in order to get that type of recognition.

[billsfreak]

Nothing holds a candle to the Flutie vs. Johnson era!

That was a mess, but it doesn't compare to this era for disappointing. They were competitive, for the most part had winning records and were in the playoffs, especially under Flutie, whom which they should have stayed under.

[Homey D. Clown]

How do you make a team better by leaving the same players in the same positions? This preseason, and Chan Gailey is shaking some things up. How soon do we forget the Jauron era where the team keeps doing the same thing expecting winning results. Everyone moaned about Lee Evans drop in production, so the guy gets traded, then everyone is up in arms about how we desperately need him. I'm sorry but I see things a little differently.

 

I am very happy to see CJ running with the first team, he looks like he can play, and there's no reason CJ and Freddy can't share the load.

 

The defense will be an improved unit as long as they stay healthy

 

And the new notion that no position is safe on this team. sorry, but the soft, cushy, win some lose more attitude isn't cutting it with our new head coach, and I for one applaud it. None of the players, including the likes of Lee evans ever won anything of significance, so it's time they are held accountable.

 

As far as the ownership concerns made by the OP, I share those feelings too and think it's time the team is passed along to someone who is interested in keeping the team in Buffalo, and winning. enough of this playing games in toronto crap.