At What Point Do Nix and Gailey Own This Team

[PS 56]

Nix and Gailey owned this team from the time they signed with the Bill's organization. Right now they are attempting to make the best team they know how based upon the talent they have and the talent they can get. I think they are open to free agency. But not many free agents want to play for the Bills. They both recognize they will get their main talent through the draft. I am not willing to crucify them based upon a few preseason games.

[Packerland Bills Fan]

4 years, no less.

 

It took 2 years for Levy to take the team to the AFC Championship game, but he inherited players like Bruce Smith, Darrel Talley and Andre Reed and Jim Kelly under rights. Nix and Gailey haven't had anything close to that to work with.

 

Sorry folks, but 2 more years of this.

[BillsFanM.D.]

http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/6883286/tmq-says-money-motivates-losing-cheap-paying-wins

 

Seems to hit a bit close to home...and I love how the cartoon depicts players with 'our colors.'

[CountDorkula]

http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/6883286/tmq-says-money-motivates-losing-cheap-paying-wins

 

Seems to hit a bit close to home...and I love how the cartoon depicts players with 'our colors.'

 

That is how the entire country views the Bills. Whether right or wrong, it is how it is. The Bills have no one to blame for themselves. Countless mistreated players. Players leaving because the did not feel they got a sufficient enough pay raise, that they eventually would up getting somewhere else.

 

Mr.Wilson whom I do respect and admire as a person for what he has done for this league, has put a black cloud over this organization over the past ten years.

[billswi2000]

I agree with this ESPN article, but Bills' decisions to dump Langston Walker and Trent Edwards were right decisions. They were cut not because Bills are cheap.

[birdog1960]

the article holds no punches and articulates important points. winning needs to be incentivized monetarily as it's clearly not a priority for several owners. the salary floor isn't happening soon enough.

[BillsFanM.D.]

the salary floor isn't happening soon enough.

 

I think that's the most relevent (real time) point. Well stated.

[dave mcbride]

http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/6883286/tmq-says-money-motivates-losing-cheap-paying-wins

 

Seems to hit a bit close to home...and I love how the cartoon depicts players with 'our colors.'

Gregg Easterbrook is from Buffalo. This is very clearly about the Bills.

 

Btw, Edwards' salary for last season was guaranteed because he was on the opening day roster.

[Lurker]

When you have made up your mind that the draft is the only way to build the franchise (For Buddy and Chan), they better get their drafting right...Your players from 1st - 3rd round need to be solid contributors, not bench warmers...

And that assumes this GM/HC are committed to playing rookies. Both guys are 'old school,' so it's likely not in their nature to rush young draft picks into the lineup at the expense of their long-run development.

 

They seem willing to loose games, rather than follow the 'burn up the new guys to win now' approach of the past few years. We better acknowledge that reality as fans pretty soon..

[TheBlackMamba]

"Since arriving a year ago, Nix has waived, traded or let go four recent first-round draft choices (Maybin, Evans, Marshawn Lynch and Donte Whitner), cutting costs while shifting blame backward to the previous coach and general manager."

 

 

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[K-9]

Right, and Lynch, Whitner, and Maybin all deserved to stay based on merit alone.

 

The only true irreplaceable talent was Evans and I don't buy for a second he was let go simply for money reasons. You don't give a guy a $1.5m bonus days before trading him just to save money.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Like A Mofo]

Cue the Ralph apologists on this one...cant wait to see the spin.

 

Image is EVERYTHING sometimes, and whether you see the Evans trade a different way,. agents, GM's and players WILL see it the way it was described in the article.

 

Keep apologizing for Ralph, it will get you nowhere.

[Travis]

That is how the entire country views the Bills. Whether right or wrong, it is how it is. The Bills have no one to blame for themselves. Countless mistreated players. Players leaving because the did not feel they got a sufficient enough pay raise, that they eventually would up getting somewhere else.

 

Mr.Wilson whom I do respect and admire as a person for what he has done for this league, has put a black cloud over this organization over the past ten years.

 

Well I think we all know it's not a misconception but the truth, it literally is spelled out in black & white on how our franchise and some of the other sad sack franchises operate.

[Lurker]

"Since arriving a year ago, Nix has waived, traded or let go four recent first-round draft choices (Maybin, Evans, Marshawn Lynch and Donte Whitner), cutting costs while shifting blame backward to the previous coach and general manager."

Curious how you see making the team weaker (the premise of this statement, I presume) is better for Buddy? If anything, I see it as the opposite...that Nix has big enough balls to make the hard decisions to dump the past mediocrity, even if it negatively affects the team's short-term results, in order to build a solid long-term foundation.

 

If anything, Donahoe and Marv were the 'shifters' since they tried to dazzle fans with a magical slight of hand...

Edited August 23, 2011 by Lurker

[BillsVet]

Curious how you see making the team weaker (the premise of this statement, I presume) better for Buddy? If anything, I see it as the opposite...that Nix has big enough balls to make the hard decisions to dump the past mediocrity, even if it negatively affects the team's short-term results, in order to build a solid long-term foundation.

 

If anything, Donahoe and Marv were the 'shifters' since they tried to dazzle fans with a magical slight of hand...

 

Nix had better be right, or those big balls of his are going into the vice grip. So far, his decision making on the OL and at WR aren't looking good.

 

Still, any time the Bills drop or trade a high priced player once could think that it's engineered by someone above the GM level for a financial reason. True or not, the reputation of the organization makes it a possibility.

Edited August 23, 2011 by BillsVet

[Mike in Horseheads]

http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/6883286/tmq-says-money-motivates-losing-cheap-paying-wins

 

Seems to hit a bit close to home...and I love how the cartoon depicts players with 'our colors.'

The helmet color and old man pushing a wheel barrel of cash immediately made me think of Ralph and the Bills. The one thing I disagree with is the story portrayed Trent Edwards a salary dump, incorrect, he was a true trash dump.

[Jauronimo]

Cue the Ralph apologists on this one...cant wait to see the spin.

 

Image is EVERYTHING sometimes, and whether you see the Evans trade a different way,. agents, GM's and players WILL see it the way it was described in the article.

 

Keep apologizing for Ralph, it will get you nowhere.

Wouldn't want to stand in the way of all the progress being made here. Maybe tomorrow you can tackle climate change, shift some paradigms, lower the glass cieling or maybe save some whales?

[K-9]

Cue the Ralph apologists on this one...cant wait to see the spin.

 

Image is EVERYTHING sometimes, and whether you see the Evans trade a different way,. agents, GM's and players WILL see it the way it was described in the article.

 

Keep apologizing for Ralph, it will get you nowhere.

 

OK, so if Evans was traded just so they could save money, why did they give him a $1.5m bonus days just a few days before?

 

Apologizing for Ralph has nothing to do with it. There is a legitimate reason to question the idea that Evans was traded simply for money reasons.

 

Just like there were legitimate reasons, other than money, for the departures of Lynch, Whitner, and Maybin. Seems the Bills wasted a ton of money on Maybin actually.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[shibuya]

The Chiefs have nearly $33 million of unused cap space. The Bucs, Jaguars, Bengals, Bills, Broncos and Browns have at least $20 million each. Another six teams have at least $10 million unused.

 

 

so make sure yuo point the finger at the rest of the teams that are obviously CHEAP ASSES

[ganesh]

While the draft is clearly their primary focus, there will be anywhere from 7-9 opening day starters on this team that were free agent acquisitions by Nix. See my post three above yours.

 

 

I respectfully disagree on just about all points. Please list all of the NFL teams (besides Philly) who have rosters full of "top talent" free agents in their prime. The draft is the key. My point is that Nix has gone out and added veteran starters where needed while drafting what he hopes is his foundation. And although the OL is a huge and legitimate concern, it hasn't been "ignored" unless one remains hung up on not drafting guys in the first couple of rounds the last two years. They went after Clabo and he chose to remain in Atlanta. You can't win 'em all, and it doesn't set a good precedent to vastly overpay a RT.

 

The Spiller pick remains questionable. Aside from that, however, how can one argue with the strategy of what has been done? I guarantee Nix/Gailey have a longer leash than two seasons.

eball,

 

My point was that for a franchise picking in the top 10, and hopes the draft as its way to success, needs to hit on its draft picks and have them contribute in their rookie season. Spiller, Troupe and Carrington hardly saw the field and that too on a lousy 4-12 team that started 0-8. I believe that just does not cut it for the draft success. And in their second season, none of these guys are likely to be starters on opening day @ their positions. The good teams get good value from their top picks and not have them as bench warmers.

[birdog1960]

Nix had better be right, or those big balls of his are going into the vice grip.

not if you accept the premise of this piece, which i do. making excuses for not winning is just a ruse for losing for profit. he's doing just fine and sticking to script.

[Lurker]

Nix had better be right, or those big balls of his are going into the vice grip. So far, his decision making on the OL and at WR aren't looking good.

 

Still, any time the Bills drop or trade a high priced player once could think that it's engineered by someone above the GM level for a financial reason. True or not, the reputation of the organization makes it a possibility.

Valid point.

 

But perhaps Buddy's "tough **** if I get fired, I'll go back to Tennessee and sit on my porch" approach is what we need...and what Marv was too gentrified to provide...

[shibuya]

this is all Nix and Gaileys team now...

 

However we cannot replace 52 players in 2 seasons with high quality players capable of winning a superbowl

[ganesh]

And that assumes this GM/HC are committed to playing rookies. Both guys are 'old school,' so it's likely not in their nature to rush young draft picks into the lineup at the expense of their long-run development.

 

They seem willing to loose games, rather than follow the 'burn up the new guys to win now' approach of the past few years. We better acknowledge that reality as fans pretty soon..

That might have been true 25 years ago...when the likes of Parcells, Levy and Walsh kept excellent players on bench and did not play them much during their rookie years. However, in today's NFL there is no such thing as sitting and watching and learning...It is all about how much can you help contribute to the team, especially if you are picked in the 1st three rounds.

[section122]

Cue the Ralph apologists on this one...cant wait to see the spin.

 

Image is EVERYTHING sometimes, and whether you see the Evans trade a different way,. agents, GM's and players WILL see it the way it was described in the article.

 

Keep apologizing for Ralph, it will get you nowhere.

 

Agreed this is why free agents don't want to come to buffalo. It is not a place with an owner trying to win but one making money for his estate. This article disproves the "he could have made more money somewhere else be glad he didn't move them" theory. I have long thought it was a bush league tactic that scares many into spending their money on a subpar product.

 

It was a different thread but this is why we are the clippers of the nfl.

[billsfreak]

That is how the entire country views the Bills. Whether right or wrong, it is how it is. The Bills have no one to blame for themselves. Countless mistreated players. Players leaving because the did not feel they got a sufficient enough pay raise, that they eventually would up getting somewhere else.

 

Mr.Wilson whom I do respect and admire as a person for what he has done for this league, has put a black cloud over this organization over the past ten years.

You don't know how perfectly descriptive your post is. I have said the same thing, almost word for word on this board, but I am considered a Ralph hater which I am not. He is just a terrible owner, bottom line.

 

The helmet color and old man pushing a wheel barrel of cash immediately made me think of Ralph and the Bills. The one thing I disagree with is the story portrayed Trent Edwards a salary dump, incorrect, he was a true trash dump.

You are correct about Edwards, but the saddest thing about that is that just two weeks earlier he was the savior and future of this franchise, as so designated by this clueless organization.

[KD in CA]

4 years, no less.

 

It took 2 years for Levy to take the team to the AFC Championship game, but he inherited players like Bruce Smith, Darrel Talley and Andre Reed and Jim Kelly under rights. Nix and Gailey haven't had anything close to that to work with.

 

Sorry folks, but 2 more years of this.

 

 

At a minimum, depending on when they find a franchise QB.

[Lurker]

That might have been true 25 years ago...when the likes of Parcells, Levy and Walsh kept excellent players on bench and did not play them much during their rookie years. However, in today's NFL there is no such thing as sitting and watching and learning...It is all about how much can you help contribute to the team, especially if you are picked in the 1st three rounds.

I agree that you generally have guys only for their first contract in the new NFL. Still, how many guys have teams (not just the Bills) burned through in the past few years because they got thrown to the wolves from day 1?

 

I think a 'red shirt' season can still be accepted with 4-year rookie contracts, and that's likely what Spiller, Troup and Carrington were given last year...

Edited August 23, 2011 by Lurker

[eball]

eball,

 

My point was that for a franchise picking in the top 10, and hopes the draft as its way to success, needs to hit on its draft picks and have them contribute in their rookie season. Spiller, Troupe and Carrington hardly saw the field and that too on a lousy 4-12 team that started 0-8. I believe that just does not cut it for the draft success. And in their second season, none of these guys are likely to be starters on opening day @ their positions. The good teams get good value from their top picks and not have them as bench warmers.

1st rounders -- yes, perhaps. 2nd round and below -- I believe if you took a random sample you'd find immediate, significant contributors few and far between.

 

The second year is where draft picks really have to step it up. That's why this team needs Troup, Carrington, Moats, and most importantly, Spiller, to become regular contributors in 2011. I give Easley and Batten a pass because of injuries.

[AthensThunder]

I don't really care what you believe.Ralph could have moved the team more than a couple of times and been in a position to make am lot more money.

And the next time you go up to the teller to pay for your seats,curse Ralph for having the lowest prices for seats.Imagine the money he could make just raising the ticket price just $10 each.

Oh ya and the team is still in Buffalo.

[CountDorkula]

I don't really care what you believe.Ralph could have moved the team more than a couple of times and been in a position to make am lot more money.

And the next time you go up to the teller to pay for your seats,curse Ralph for having the lowest prices for seats.Imagine the money he could make just raising the ticket price just $10 each.

Oh ya and the team is still in Buffalo.

 

 

Yes the team is in Buffalo, but the NFL has already looked past us. We are a blip on the radar throughout most of the country. I hate being the laughing stock of the league.

 

Ever tell anyone your a Bills fan? They laugh at you. All you can do is say yea, well we are the best, most loyal fans in the league. The Steelers and Pats may have the worst fans in the leauge, but they also have superbowl titles and countless great seasons to go by. All we have is pride. It gets a little tiring trying to defend your fandom to everyone.

 

Yes I know I am going to be told go root for a different team, and I say to that You. I am a Bills fan, just a tired one.

 

The Chiefs have nearly $33 million of unused cap space. The Bucs, Jaguars, Bengals, Bills, Broncos and Browns have at least $20 million each. Another six teams have at least $10 million unused

 

so make sure yuo point the finger at the rest of the teams that are obviously CHEAP ASSES

 

The Bucs, Chiefs, Broncos and Browns are all teams on the rise with emerging talent adn what looks to be a succession plan. The Bengals and Bills are teams that everyone looks at and laughs at. The Jags, they just need to leave. They are so below the cap because they will lose money if they get any closer to it. Sad actually.

 

You don't know how perfectly descriptive your post is. I have said the same thing, almost word for word on this board, but I am considered a Ralph hater which I am not. He is just a terrible owner, bottom line.

 

 

Not a "Ralph hater" either. I honestly believe the game and business have past him by. The world that the NFL is has drastically changed, and I believe has left Ralph, and the Bungles owner in the dust.

Edited August 23, 2011 by CountDorkula

[birdog1960]

I don't really care what you believe.Ralph could have moved the team more than a couple of times and been in a position to make am lot more money.

And the next time you go up to the teller to pay for your seats,curse Ralph for having the lowest prices for seats.Imagine the money he could make just raising the ticket price just $10 each.

Oh ya and the team is still in Buffalo.

70,0000 seats X $10 X 7 games (they charge plenty for the toronto game) = $4.9 mil. not near enough to justify 20-30 mil under the cap. that's one of the points the article was making. it's more profitable to cut payroll than try to fill expensive seats with a good (expensive) product.

Edited August 23, 2011 by birdog1960

[BillsFanM.D.]

I don't really care what you believe.Ralph could have moved the team more than a couple of times and been in a position to make am lot more money.

And the next time you go up to the teller to pay for your seats,curse Ralph for having the lowest prices for seats.Imagine the money he could make just raising the ticket price just $10 each.

Oh ya and the team is still in Buffalo.

 

All true. As a fan of the team, however, I would hope there is more in mind than simply cheap tickets and staying in town. Your argument to the extreme is...."I'm fine with 4-12 every year as long as the team is here and the tickets are cheap." That's a lifetime of pain brother... Not that I, and many others, wouldn't be drinking the kool-aid with you.

 

Personally, I have slightly higher hopes for the Bills. We could have added a veteran O lineman this year (simply looking at our perceived biggest weakness) without huge cost and likely a more stable (if not better) product. In my extreme case, we could have overplayed Clabo up front, solidified a spot for 5-6 years and still had future cap room. Perhaps, however, I'm just jaded by 40 yrs of fandom and decade of disgust.

 

Again, I admire Ralph in keeping the team here etc. He has been a VERY loyal owner....but not a very good one the last ten years. You have to separate loyalty from effectiveness though each are potentially admirable. At some point... he needs to do more than show up. He gets straight A's for attendance, but his class participation/grades the last decade has been horrible. I like the drafting of Nix so far but would like to have seen a bit more in trying to win now. Recognizing we are not a superbowl team is fine, but I'd like to actually believe we 'have a shot' most Sunday's. I've said before that every Sunday I think we will win. It's just getting harder to fool myself.

[mikef272002]

I think there doing things right, although the Evans trade was hard to swallow...I think the way I look at it is..Defense's win ball games, so they have drafted mainly defense the past two drafts, I would expect a heavy dose of offense in next years draft along with a more active free agency because year 3 is where you want to turn that corner and take the next step and by then our defensive will have solid veteran players, and our offense will be full of young up and comers with some good free agency weapons sprinkled into it..I think were all sick of loosing and want to win NOW, but it's going to take another year weather we like it or not...But there on the right path, look how our defense got better, and we have good depth on defense..Next years draft will be mostly or all offense..

[sllib olaffub]

4 years, no less.

 

It took 2 years for Levy to take the team to the AFC Championship game, but he inherited players like Bruce Smith, Darrel Talley and Andre Reed and Jim Kelly under rights. Nix and Gailey haven't had anything close to that to work with.

 

Sorry folks, but 2 more years of this.

That, and perhaps a year or two more, is the truth. That is what no one at One Bills Drive will admit to publicly, becuse who wants to buy tickets for a team that isn't even expected to win by the teams own coaching staff? When Nix took over, he said it'll take time, but he also said, it doesn't take as long as maybe people think. So, when Nix and Gailey took over, I think a fast assumption of a good turnaround would be 2 years - like the Jets were able to do, with veterans. Four years would be considered a long turnaround, I think. Well, this is year 2, and we're getting rid of Evans - the only explanation for which would be that he isn't going to be here when it matters most, or be in his prime when we need him, so let the young guys develop and get something (a 4th - which usually takes 2-3 years to start making a difference). Well, he still would be an asset for another two years, I'd say. I think all that we've seen gives us reason to believe Nix and Gailey are still counting on at least two more drafts before they are going to hold themselves accountable for winning.

 

So, suck it up. Maybe we'll see some winning in 2013/14 when guys like Brady and Manning are on their way out, and maybe we don't have to actually beat them to get into the playoffs.

[Calgary_JG]

I agree with this ESPN article, but Bills' decisions to dump Langston Walker and Trent Edwards were right decisions. They were cut not because Bills are cheap.

 

I read the article and he makes some good points but the comments about dumping Walker and Captain Checkdown are a bit out of line. Those guys were underperforming and dumping Edwards actually made the Bills better.

 

I also don't buy the argument of "well we might have done better had we had Lee Evans (or whoever)". In all honesty the Bills are not going to win this year so there isn't much point in overpaying for veteran players who won't be around in two years. To suggest that the owners are saying that they don't want to win is a bunch of bunk; however, having said that, when you don't invest in talent you end up 10 years without a playoff appearance.

[Ramius]

OK, so if Evans was traded just so they could save money, why did they give him a $1.5m bonus days just a few days before?

 

Apologizing for Ralph has nothing to do with it. There is a legitimate reason to question the idea that Evans was traded simply for money reasons.

 

Just like there were legitimate reasons, other than money, for the departures of Lynch, Whitner, and Maybin. Seems the Bills wasted a ton of money on Maybin actually.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

You don't trade away one of your best offensive weapons for an essentially worthless 4th round draft pick. You don't ditch Lee Evans so that you have room for Naaman freaking Roosevelt.

 

The Evans move was a cost-cutting one, plain and simple. Ralph may not be necessarily "cheap" but he absolutely values the bottom line much more than he values putting a winning team on the field.

[Billsrhody]

I think in general people are being very pessimistic towards Nix and Gailey. They've had one full season where they've shown that they improve the team. We had an offense that could move the ball for the first time since Bledsoe was here and we finished the season 4-4 (would have been 5-3 if not for the drop).

 

They started out with a team that good running back and a decent secondary and have already completely reworked the defense and discovered talent we didnt even know existed on the offensive side of the ball. Why dont we let the team play a regular season game in year 2 before we start chalking the Nix and Gailey regime as a failure.

[K-9]

You don't trade away one of your best offensive weapons for an essentially worthless 4th round draft pick. You don't ditch Lee Evans so that you have room for Naaman freaking Roosevelt.

 

The Evans move was a cost-cutting one, plain and simple. Ralph may not be necessarily "cheap" but he absolutely values the bottom line much more than he values putting a winning team on the field.

 

I don't agree that the Evans move was simply a "cost cutting one" given they paid him a $1.5m bonus mere days before. Teams looking to cut costs don't usually pay those bonuses. The cost-cutting angle would make more sense to me if they traded him before roster bonus payment was due (they had up to five days after the new league year began).

 

I think Evans wanted to be traded and the Bills obliged. He wasn't a big part of the offense, the Bills OLine doesn't exactly lend itself to the long ball, and he's getting to the point where time will catch up to him before he has a chance to win it all which he most certainly realized wasn't going to happen on this team for awhile.

 

JMO.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[BMWR100RT]

<He has been a VERY loyal owner....but not a very good one the last ten years.>

 

There's that toronto thing.....