papazoid Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6189497 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Seems about right. Though I'm sorry to see any chance to cost the Patriots millions go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) What they did was criminal, and I am really angry that D Bag Goodell didn’t do more about it. He destroyed the evidence and tried to save face for the Patsies and the NFL. I understand he tried to “save the integirty of the game” ( I mean imagine if they admitted that all 3 SBs were cheats and not valid, which they are/were, but its different if the NFL confirms it) but I don’t think letting the franchise off with a slap on the wrists is the way to go either. I would have liked to see Bellich banned from the NFL for 5 years and an 2 entire years worth of draft picks (rounds1-7 in 2 consecutive years) taken away - based off of the NCAA ban of no scholarships for 2 years. If they did that then I bet McDanials wouldn’t have been doing the same thing just a couple years later. I also think the Lawyer went the wrong way in suing the Patsies and not the NFL. Its teh NFL that passed games off as legit competition, not the Patsies. Edited March 7, 2011 by Thoner7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) I don't think that case ever had any merit at all. And it is an insult to even bring a case about something as insignificant as !@#$ing football to the supreme court. If King Roger wasn't going to do anything about it (which he didn't), it really is up to the other owners to force him to. But the owners care about very little other than money and punishment of the guilty was not going to bring them more of that so why bother. Besides, who knows what other unethical things are being done by all of the teams that might be exposed if the Pats were severely punished and decided to drag the league through the mud. King Roger probably did the right thing and minimized the damage. Edited March 7, 2011 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 the league response was such an entire farce the biggest nfl cheating scandal in at least the last twenty plus years if not ever and they fine them and take away a single draft pick not titles stripped no asterisks its only sports but still it was a horrendous indictment on american culture to just let that thing pass without severe and lasting consequences the most amazing this is that most people dont even care. they act like it was a minor thing and continue to treat that organization like its special. all that matters is that they won, to hell with how they did it. and make no mistake, it was a huuuge advantage for them while they were getting away with it. just huge i can honestly say if that was my team i would boycott them until they purged all those involved. theres absolutely no way i would have just rolled my eyes and continued to support them. no. way and yet, do most people, even non-cheater fans, care at all? no i cant help but think it really shows how far our culture has fallen in terms of character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I don't think that case ever had any merit at all. And it is an insult to even bring a case about something as insignificant as !@#$ing football to the supreme court. If King Roger wasn't going to do anything about it (which he didn't), it really is up to the other owners to force him to. But the owners care about very little other than money and punishment of the guilty was not going to bring them more of that so why bother. Besides, who knows what other unethical things are being done by all of the teams that might be exposed if the Pats were severely punished and decided to drag the league through the mud. King Roger probably did the right thing and minimized the damage. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 i can honestly say if that was my team i would boycott them until they purged all those involved. theres absolutely no way i would have just rolled my eyes and continued to support them. no. way Hmmm. If it were the Bills in the middle of this I wonder how many people here, or Bills fans in general, would do the same. Precious few I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) What they did was criminal, and I am really angry that D Bag Goodell didnt do more about it. He destroyed the evidence and tried to save face for the Patsies and the NFL. I understand he tried to save the integirty of the game ( I mean imagine if they admitted that all 3 SBs were cheats and not valid, which they are/were, but its different if the NFL confirms it) but I dont think letting the franchise off with a slap on the wrists is the way to go either. I would have liked to see Bellich banned from the NFL for 5 years and an 2 entire years worth of draft picks (rounds1-7 in 2 consecutive years) taken away - based off of the NCAA ban of no scholarships for 2 years. If they did that then I bet McDanials wouldnt have been doing the same thing just a couple years later. The reality is that the Pats win because they have a well run organization and a good team. The Bills lose because they have a poorly run organization and a talent lacking team. If you think that the reason the Pats have had the best record in the league for the past decade is due to cheating then you are fooling yourself. The Pats were punished by the league. They lost a first round pick and they paid a hefty fine. That was a reasonable punishment. Your suggestion that the HC should be banned for 5 years and the team lose two years worth of draft picks is simply lunatic talk. If you want to do something constructive with your over the top outrage then direct it at an organization that can't for almost a generation get itself into the playoffs in a system designed for paritiy. That is the real outrage! I also think the Lawyer went the wrong way in suing the Patsies and not the NFL. Its teh NFL that passed games off as legit competition, not the Patsies. The fact that this trivial matter got taken into the legal system is the major offense here. If there was a chargeable offense it was that this frivolous matter was even taken to court. Edited March 7, 2011 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 not titles stripped no asterisks I can't believe the NFL isn't stripping titles!!! Look how much respect the NCAA gets when they do that! its only sports but still it was a horrendous indictment on american culture to just let that thing pass without severe and lasting consequences :lol: Are you taking over for crayonz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Oh sweet, another embarrassing thread by bitter, sour-grapes Bills fans. Get over it. They have been the better franchise for the last 10 years. It makes you look bitter and small to claim cheat whenever someone puts it in your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 For those claiming that this was no big deal, go find the NYT article that quotes several unnamed members of the NFL Competition Committee who said that there was really only one team that they got complaints about shady dealings on over and over again--any guess as to which team it was? Folks have suspected them of a lot more than Spygate, and Spygate itself proves that they were certainly willing to push that ethical envelope. Personally, for reasons discussed on this board ad nauseum over the years, I suspect that they were guilty of far more than just Spygate, but perhaps that's just me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Personally, for reasons discussed on this board ad nauseum over the years, I suspect that they were guilty of far more than just Spygate, but perhaps that's just me.... They were guilty in having an enlightened owner who invested in his front office and coaching staff. Compare that to the backward owner of the Bills and the short-sighted way he has run his franchise. This childish whining coming from the fans of a consistently losing team about a franchise that is a consistently winning franchise is in itself very embarrassing to witness. Go out and earn your own success and stop looking for excuses as to why another team wins so much. Edited March 7, 2011 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 They were guilty in having an enlightened owner who invested in his front office and coaching staff. Compare that to the backward owner of the Bills and the short-sighted way he has run his franchise. This childish whining coming from the fans of a consistently losing team about a franchise that is a consistently winning franchise is in itself very embarrassing to witness. Go out and earn your own success and stop looking for excuses as to why another team wins so much. That's all well and good, except we're not the only fans complaining about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 the leagues response was a sad joke but this was never worthy of a supreme court case. No the NFL swept under the rug nice and neatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 What they did was criminal, and I am really angry that D Bag Goodell didn’t do more about it. He destroyed the evidence and tried to save face for the Patsies and the NFL. I understand he tried to “save the integirty of the game” ( I mean imagine if they admitted that all 3 SBs were cheats and not valid, which they are/were, but its different if the NFL confirms it) but I don’t think letting the franchise off with a slap on the wrists is the way to go either. So what exactly is the criminal aspect in Spygate? Is there a law on our books that actually applies? There is a reason why the case never saw the light of day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 The reality is that the Pats win because they have a well run organization and a good team. The Bills lose because they have a poorly run organization and a talent lacking team. If you think that the reason the Pats have had the best record in the league for the past decade is due to cheating then you are fooling yourself. The Pats were punished by the league. They lost a first round pick and they paid a hefty fine. That was a reasonable punishment. Your suggestion that the HC should be banned for 5 years and the team lose two years worth of draft picks is simply lunatic talk. If you want to do something constructive with your over the top outrage then direct it at an organization that can't for almost a generation get itself into the playoffs in a system designed for paritiy. That is the real outrage! What do the Bills have to do with the fact that the Patriots got caught cheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 The Patriots are the Dale Earnhardts of the NFL in terms of rule interpretations, Mulligans, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 What do the Bills have to do with the fact that the Patriots got caught cheating? I find whining loser fans tough to stomach. Excuses are for losers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I find whining loser fans tough to stomach. Excuses are for losers! And cheating is for....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) I find whining loser fans tough to stomach. Excuses are for losers! What do you think you're making for the Pats and their cheating? Edited March 7, 2011 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 What the Pats* did was wrong and at the time we were all pissed. I still think the commish should have done more but he didnt The supreme court? Do they really have nothing better to do? They should reject it, its time to move on. the Pats* got exposed in the Super bowl that year and havent won it since. Its a new decade, time to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 And cheating is for....? Eddie Guerrero? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 And cheating is for....? bored housewives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 And it is an insult to even bring a case about something as insignificant as !@#$ing football to the supreme court. Which is why the court effectively decided "!@#$ you idiots, don't waste our time." Besides, everyone knows the proper venue for sports issues isn't the court system, but congressional hearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 bored housewives? credit cards too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Roger Goodell is a bully. He comes down hard on the easy to pick on guys like Pac Man Jones and Marshawn Lynch but any time the guy has to make a serious stand he is a wimp. Spygate, Michael Vick, and Big Ben were all situations Goodell suddenly he is weak. Belicheat should have been suspended for life from the NFL but that would actually mean having a backbone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 The reality is that the Pats win because they have a well run organization and a good team. The Bills lose because they have a poorly run organization and a talent lacking team. If you think that the reason the Pats have had the best record in the league for the past decade is due to cheating then you are fooling yourself. The Pats were punished by the league. They lost a first round pick and they paid a hefty fine. That was a reasonable punishment. Your suggestion that the HC should be banned for 5 years and the team lose two years worth of draft picks is simply lunatic talk. If you want to do something constructive with your over the top outrage then direct it at an organization that can't for almost a generation get itself into the playoffs in a system designed for paritiy. That is the real outrage! The fact that this trivial matter got taken into the legal system is the major offense here. If there was a chargeable offense it was that this frivolous matter was even taken to court. I didn’t credit all of their success to cheating, but I did and would credit their 3 SBs to cheating. They barely won 2 of those SBs by a FG. Your telling me that knowing the other teams defense couldn’t account for 10 yards over the course of a game and make those long field goals too long? Truth is the Patsies prob wouldn’t have won a single SB without cheating. Where would that put Bellicheat? Where would that put princess Brady? A hefty fine? They fined Bellicheat 500k. Sure that’s a lot of money, but considering winning the SB makes you a 8+ million a year coach that’s a drop in a bucket. That’s like me getting fined 2500 bucks. Mr. Craft got fined – big whoop. His team won 3 Super bowls, I bet the income he saw from that could pay his million dollar fine a hundred times over. Not to mention that the pats franchise went from one of the league’s lowest valued team to one of its highest valued (in terms of equity/dollars) in this decade. O and a 2 year revocation of draft picks isn’t crazy at all – its essentially the same exact ban the NCAA places on teams that recruit illegally (no scholarships for 2 years) which is how I came up with it. It also isn’t rare for coaches to get fired over such obvious violations (that is if they don’t run first – like Pete Carrol). Getting fired from a big time job can easily set a coach back a few years. Besides, I said I want strict punishment for rigging an NFL game – you don’t? Penalties are supposed to deter people from breaking the rules after all. Let me put it this way. Would you rather have 3 SB rings, OR the 32nd draft pick and Ralph Wilson gets 1 million more dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 i still laugh at the rule violation....it is perfectly legal to steal signs. you can have as many coaches and assistants as you want with binoculars making notes and stealing of all signals, signs etc.... just don't record it on video....laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Let me put it this way. Would you rather have 3 SB rings, OR the 32nd draft pick and Ralph Wilson gets 1 million more dollars. The Pats and Belichick got punished for their cheating. You might disagree with the severity of the punishment but that is what the league decided to mete out. Looking for such a lame excuse as you are conjuring up as to why the Pats consistently win is absurd. The Pats consistently win because they are a very sound organization. The Bills consistently lose because they are a very mediocre organization. The last game the Bills played against the Pats they lost by a score of 34-3. It had nothing to do with cheating. It is very embarrassing to witness the fans of losing franchises get worked up over the successes of winning organizations. If you want to do something useful with your excessive moral outrage direct it towards the hometown franchise that has become one of the worst performing franchises for almost a generation. Earn your own successes and stop being jealous with the franchises that know what it takes to win. While you are wasting your energy on being indignant about the Pats I can guarantee you that they are directing all their energy on being a championship team. The Bills are still at the beginning stage of trying to climb up to being mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 It is very embarrassing to witness the fans of losing franchises get worked up over the successes of winning organizations. If you want to do something useful with your excessive moral outrage direct it towards the hometown franchise that has become one of the worst performing franchises for almost a generation. Earn your own successes and stop being jealous with the franchises that know what it takes to win. Again, other fans of other teams complain about it too. If you don't want to read about complaints, go be a Pats* fan and you won't have to worry about it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Again, other fans of other teams complain about it too. If you don't want to read about complaints, go be a Pats* fan and you won't have to worry about it anymore. It's not like this came thread came out of left field: it's news (albeit unsurprising) that broke today that SCOTUS won't hear the "Spygate" case (as they shouldn't). It's no different than say, Barry Bonds (who was a top notch player prior to cheating ) suddenly being in the news and everyone talking about his cheating. But that's "whining" and "sour grapes" as well, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 "But that's "whining" and "sour grapes" as well, right? Making a claim that the Pats won a number of SBs because they cheated is an absurdity. Advocating that the Pats should have been punished by taking away two years of draft picks is a tad bit excessive and over the top. Don't you think? As I stated in a prior posting having this issue go up to the Supreme Court to be dismissed and into the court system is in my view frivolous and wasteful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Making a claim that the Pats won a number of SBs because they cheated is an absurdity. Advocating that the Pats should have been punished by taking away two years of draft picks is a tad bit excessive and over the top. Don't you think? As I stated in a prior posting having this issue go up to the Supreme Court to be dismissed and into the court system is in my view frivolous and wasteful. I agreed earlier in the thread that it was frivolous and wasteful for it to be heard by SCOTUS. And the point in mentioning Bonds (or Marion Jones, or Ben Johnson, etc.) it that no one knows how many of his HR's were due to steroids, just like we don't know how many of the Patriots' wins were due to cheating. But cheating is still cheating. And the Patriots were punished to the fullest extent, while whether they should have been punished more is a reasonable question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 They were guilty in having an enlightened owner who invested in his front office and coaching staff. Compare that to the backward owner of the Bills and the short-sighted way he has run his franchise. This childish whining coming from the fans of a consistently losing team about a franchise that is a consistently winning franchise is in itself very embarrassing to witness. Go out and earn your own success and stop looking for excuses as to why another team wins so much. Total BS! Cheating in all aspects of life is what brings true success... Truly sad! Kraft's ethics are very sketchy... Kraft is the real cheat. Again, I am going back to his quote in Forbes years ago. Kraft said that he would sneak 8-9 people into Patriots games on 6 tickets back in the day... I know, I know... Theft of service is no real big deal and this is small potatoes... But it does show how Kraft's mind works. What is he doing now on a big scale. I can't believe Forbes even published that interview years ago. If you call this "enlightened" so be it. The guy is a cheat and he said so directly in a published interview... And thought nothing of it. No wonder the Sullivan's had so much trouble keeping their franchise solvent. Maybe that is why they didn't sellout. This is what passes for "honor" today in our society: Kraft: 2005 Forbes "Robert Kraft has used business sense and a fan's blind faith to turn the once-laughable New England Patriots into one of the richest franchises in sports. For Robert Kraft it all started in 1971 on the cold, hard metal benches of a sad-sack football stadium in Foxboro, Mass. "Section 217, row 23, seats one through six," says the Boston-born businessman, who would bundle up his four boys and a few of their friends to watch the Patriots lose another game on Sunday afternoons. They would squeeze eight or nine butts into his six season-ticket seats. "We were fans; we knew all the tricks," says Kraft, 64. It hardly mattered how many people sneaked in: The Patriots never sold out Foxboro (then called Sullivan Stadium) and lost hundreds of games on the field and millions of dollars off of it. "I used to sit on those benches and dream about what I would do if I owned the team," he says. Some 20 years later Kraft, who made his fortune buying out and building up his father-in-law's product-packaging business, delivered on that cold, hard dream. In 1994 he paid a then- unheard-of $172 million to buy a faltering, moneylosing franchise that had won less than half of its games (225 of 510) since its founding in 1959. Since then Kraft has transformed the Patriots into one of the most valuable sports franchises in the world..." Money losing? Yeah... Because of cheats like him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Total BS! Cheating in all aspects of life is what brings true success... Truly sad! Kraft's ethics are very sketchy... Kraft is the real cheat. Again, I am going back to his quote in Forbes years ago. Kraft said that he would sneak 8-9 people into Patriots games on 6 tickets back in the day... I know, I know... Theft of service is no real big deal and this is small potatoes... But it does show how Kraft's mind works. What is he doing now on a big scale. I can't believe Forbes even published that interview years ago. If you call this "enlightened" so be it. The guy is a cheat and he said so directly in a published interview... And thought nothing of it. No wonder the Sullivan's had so much trouble keeping their franchise solvent. Maybe that is why they didn't sellout. This is what passes for "honor" today in our society: Kraft: 2005 Forbes Some folks will do anything to win, fair or foul, and have trouble understanding where those lines are. I don't know Kraft personally, but suspect he may be of the latter variety based on what I've seen on the field. He also seems to have an incredible ego, which may play into all of this as well. Very interesting interview with him in the NYT the week of the first SB that the Cheats* didn't make a few years ago. Basically, the guy was so self-absorbed (among other things, thinking that America's fans were all incredibly sad that the Pats* weren't in the BS that year (after having gone to the last 2 in a row)), that even his wife (the boss's daughter, who had all the money) was saying the article "Bob, get over yourself".... "Robert Kraft has used business sense and a fan's blind faith to turn the once-laughable New England Patriots into one of the richest franchises in sports. For Robert Kraft it all started in 1971 on the cold, hard metal benches of a sad-sack football stadium in Foxboro, Mass. "Section 217, row 23, seats one through six," says the Boston-born businessman, who would bundle up his four boys and a few of their friends to watch the Patriots lose another game on Sunday afternoons. They would squeeze eight or nine butts into his six season-ticket seats. "We were fans; we knew all the tricks," says Kraft, 64. It hardly mattered how many people sneaked in: The Patriots never sold out Foxboro (then called Sullivan Stadium) and lost hundreds of games on the field and millions of dollars off of it. "I used to sit on those benches and dream about what I would do if I owned the team," he says. Some 20 years later Kraft, who made his fortune buying out and building up his father-in-law's product-packaging business, delivered on that cold, hard dream. In 1994 he paid a then- unheard-of $172 million to buy a faltering, moneylosing franchise that had won less than half of its games (225 of 510) since its founding in 1959. Since then Kraft has transformed the Patriots into one of the most valuable sports franchises in the world..." Money losing? Yeah... Because of cheats like him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I don't think that case ever had any merit at all. And it is an insult to even bring a case about something as insignificant as !@#$ing football to the supreme court. If King Roger wasn't going to do anything about it (which he didn't), it really is up to the other owners to force him to. But the owners care about very little other than money and punishment of the guilty was not going to bring them more of that so why bother. Besides, who knows what other unethical things are being done by all of the teams that might be exposed if the Pats were severely punished and decided to drag the league through the mud. King Roger probably did the right thing and minimized the damage. This pretty much sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Seems about right. Though I'm sorry to see any chance to cost the Patriots millions go away. F Bag Goodell gave away the lightest punishment in NFL History for that, 1st rounder? Really? How about you forfeit the whole NFL Draft. Or give away your First rounder to your divisional opponents for the next 3 seasons??? That would be a better punishment and would stop this **** from happening to begin with. 1 first rounder doesn't mean anything anymore... Weak Godell, very Weak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The way I see it, if all you get for cheating is a slap on the wrist - Buffalo might as well start cheating. We should tape the other teams practices and go over the salary cap. Why not? the ends justify the means and it is the message that the league is sending out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The way I see it, if all you get for cheating is a slap on the wrist - Buffalo might as well start cheating. We should tape the other teams practices and go over the salary cap. Why not? the ends justify the means and it is the message that the league is sending out. The organization is so inept that if they cheated at a full throttle pace they would still lose. One thing that would never happen is that a Ralph Wilson owned team would never go over the caps under any circumstances, including if they were allowed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 there is no evidence so how can they rule? And what good would come out of it anyway? Strip the SB trophy form the Putz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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