Pat Williams, 3 year $13 million deal

[Webster Guy]

I know this has been beaten to death but we let big Pat walk for a 3 year $13 million dollar deal (he said he wouldve taken even less)and we just signed Kelsay to a 4 year $24 million dollar deal. Talk about organizational inconsistency.

 

I don't care who your GM is at the time, if you have an astute owner he doesn't let that type of athlete and team leader leave to save a few peanuts. I understand letting Clements and even Winfield walk because of the FA money they wanted, but I feel embarassed for Ralph and how disconnected he has been to his team for so long now when you look at moves like big Pat's.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and yes he was getting older and at that questionable age for performance and durability, but he didn't want a long term deal anyway or crazy upfront money.

 

I don't expect an NFL owner to be a talent judge or a financial expert, but you need them to be involved to the point that players feel some loyalty to them and vice versa. I hope our next owner brings this to the organization.

[PromoTheRobot]

How about that Darryl Lamonica trade?

 

PTR

[K-9]

In fairness to RW, he had nothing to do with letting Pat Williams go. It was the first time in team history that RW created the title and delegated TOTAL control to a team president, Tom Donahoe. When TD hired Greg Williams, GW decreed that Pat Williams was "fat" and didn't fit the mold of his great 46 defensive schemes. He was gonna beat the run with "speed and numbers." He didn't like oversized DLmen. Exit PW.

 

It's no coincidence that after the failure of the TD experiment RW hasn't given any one person total control of football operations since.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

In fairness to RW, he had nothing to do with letting Pat Williams go. It was the first time in team history that RW created the title and delegated TOTAL control to a team president, Tom Donahoe. When TD hired Greg Williams, GW decreed that Pat Williams was "fat" and didn't fit the mold of his great 46 defensive schemes. He was gonna beat the run with "speed and numbers." He didn't like oversized DLmen. Exit PW.

 

It's no coincidence that after the failure of the TD experiment RW hasn't given any one person total control of football operations since.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I remember Marv Levy was doing color commentary for one of the preseason games after Pat Williams was let go and he was astonished that such a thing could happen.

[DrDawkinstein]

It was the single biggest personnel mistake this team has made over the past 20 years. Second in team history to letting Polian go.

 

And the difference in offers was less than $1million. Oh well...

[EastRochBillsfan]

You can't have it both ways. A good majority of you call ralph a meddling owner and don't want him anywhere near football decisions. And now we have someone calling for Ralph to be a meddling owner. Just can't win with you guys.

[Red]

I totally agree.

 

The lack of even an offer for 'Big Pat' was ridiculous. And that was far from alot of money.

 

Same thing with Antoine Winfield and London Fletcher. The loss of these 3 sent out defense backwards several years. How long have we been trying to replace these guys? Especially Pat Williams. That one really hurt. Kyle Williams- who is awesome- is finally emerging as an NFL stud, but how long did it take for that to occur?

 

The thing that I notice about championship teams, is that they are obviously loaded with talented players. But what sets them apart is they also have competent future starters in the wings, waiting to take over once the starter retires, is injured, or goes somewhere else. The Patriots and Colts were excellent examples of this; though both franchises are now showing signs of being hit by too many losses these past few years that they can't possibly replace all of their players.

 

The Bills of this past decade allowed our own draft picks that turned into productive, Pro Bowl players walk away over chump change. Donahoe was such an @$$.

 

When Big Pat left, what did we replace him with? Is Poz as good as Fletcher? Now, arguably McGee and MCKelvin are good replacements at CB, but how many high 1st round picks have we spent on the secondary?

 

It's not a fair argument.

 

I mean, with smarter free agent decisions (keeping Fletcher, Williams, and Winfield), drafting better (Orakpo or Oher over Maybin, Ngata instead of Whitner, drafting Gronkowski), and some more aggressive free agent dealings (offering Cameron Wake more money than Miami to come to Buffalo) we would be an amazingly different team. What kind of pass rush would we have with Orakpo, Fletcher, Poz at LB, Cameron Wake, Ngata, Big Pat, Kyle Williams in relief duty, and Schobel? Winfield, McGee, McKelvin, Byrd in the secondary? You wouldn't be able to run or pass on a defense that good. And to top it all off, it would be a relatively young defense. We could concentrate our efforts on building the offensive line. Gronkowski may have answered those TE issues. Our receiving and RB corps is now solid. Fitz is performing well. Special teams would be solid.

 

We'd only need a couple of high caliber offensive tackles, and we'd be amazing.

 

Ah...why did Donahoe have to "spill the milk"? I'm still crying over it.

[Doc]

In fairness to RW, he had nothing to do with letting Pat Williams go. It was the first time in team history that RW created the title and delegated TOTAL control to a team president, Tom Donahoe. When TD hired Greg Williams, GW decreed that Pat Williams was "fat" and didn't fit the mold of his great 46 defensive schemes. He was gonna beat the run with "speed and numbers." He didn't like oversized DLmen. Exit PW.

 

It's no coincidence that after the failure of the TD experiment RW hasn't given any one person total control of football operations since.

 

GO BILLS!!!

That was actually Ted Washington. TD let Pat Williams walk because he thought PW was close to the end.

[racecitybills]

How about that Darryl Lamonica trade?

 

PTR

 

How about that Darryl Lamonica trade?

 

PTR

 

 

 

Might be the funniest response ever

[K-9]

That was actually Ted Washington. TD let Pat Williams walk because he thought PW was close to the end.

 

I get my fat DTs mixed up. Thanks for the clarification. But TD still resided over the decision not to re-sign PW as he still had total control of football operations at the time. Again, RW didn't meddle in any decisions during TD's reign. Given the idiocy of letting PW go, perhaps he should have.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Doc]

I get my fat DTs mixed up. Thanks for the clarification. But TD still resided over the decision not to re-sign PW as he still had total control of football operations at the time. Again, RW didn't meddle in any decisions during TD's reign. Given the idiocy of letting PW go, perhaps he should have.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Yep, it was TD's decision. But I still don't believe that Ralph got too involved in personnel decisions, other than to sign off on them.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Doc

[SuperKillerRobots]

I totally agree.

 

The lack of even an offer for 'Big Pat' was ridiculous. And that was far from alot of money.

 

Same thing with Antoine Winfield and London Fletcher. The loss of these 3 sent out defense backwards several years. How long have we been trying to replace these guys? Especially Pat Williams. That one really hurt. Kyle Williams- who is awesome- is finally emerging as an NFL stud, but how long did it take for that to occur?

 

The thing that I notice about championship teams, is that they are obviously loaded with talented players. But what sets them apart is they also have competent future starters in the wings, waiting to take over once the starter retires, is injured, or goes somewhere else. The Patriots and Colts were excellent examples of this; though both franchises are now showing signs of being hit by too many losses these past few years that they can't possibly replace all of their players.

 

The Bills of this past decade allowed our own draft picks that turned into productive, Pro Bowl players walk away over chump change. Donahoe was such an @$$.

 

When Big Pat left, what did we replace him with? Is Poz as good as Fletcher? Now, arguably McGee and MCKelvin are good replacements at CB, but how many high 1st round picks have we spent on the secondary?

 

It's not a fair argument.

 

I mean, with smarter free agent decisions (keeping Fletcher, Williams, and Winfield), drafting better (Orakpo or Oher over Maybin, Ngata instead of Whitner, drafting Gronkowski), and some more aggressive free agent dealings (offering Cameron Wake more money than Miami to come to Buffalo) we would be an amazingly different team. What kind of pass rush would we have with Orakpo, Fletcher, Poz at LB, Cameron Wake, Ngata, Big Pat, Kyle Williams in relief duty, and Schobel? Winfield, McGee, McKelvin, Byrd in the secondary? You wouldn't be able to run or pass on a defense that good. And to top it all off, it would be a relatively young defense. We could concentrate our efforts on building the offensive line. Gronkowski may have answered those TE issues. Our receiving and RB corps is now solid. Fitz is performing well. Special teams would be solid.

 

We'd only need a couple of high caliber offensive tackles, and we'd be amazing.

 

Ah...why did Donahoe have to "spill the milk"? I'm still crying over it.

 

I think one of the things that has set the Bills apart from more successful organizations over the past 10 years (not in a good way) is their habit of relying too much on young players who they feel have more talent and will be better than the current ones, but are not at the moment they are thrust intot he lineup. If you look at good teams, they draft replacement players, while still holding ontot he veteran players who are to be replaced. While we just replace the player and hope the younger player comes into his own. I understand there's a lot to be said for getting the player into the game to show what he can do, but I think doing that to a young player (any position) too early in his career actually damages their career path.

 

A perfect example of a team doing this with a player is the Steelers and Lawrence Timmons(sp?). The guy was a first round draft pick, but played second or thrid string for his first 2 to 3 seasons in the league. He basically played spot duty for them. Now he's starting and capable, whiel they never had a really big drop-off at that position during the switch-over.

 

Now look at the London Fletcher/Poz switch. They basically dumped the vet for the rookie in one offseason. Now Poz hasn't been terrible (he has been injured), but he certainly hasn't been a world-beater. There was definitely an initial drop-off between the two (and you could argue there still is depending on the situation).

 

I think the true value of having the vets still on the team with the younger, replacement players is that they develop a mentor-protege relationship, which allows the rookies to more easily assimilate intto the NFL. They have a more experienced player to assist them in learning the nuances of the scheme they are in (any football player who gets drafted can learna playbook, but it takes a while for them to really understand their role and be able to improvise within the scheme). I also think it goes past the actual on-field work and into the offseason program, weight lifting program, and practicing. The veteran players can show the younger guys how they should be working (i.e. practicing) and provide a benchmark for their progress. If it's all young guys, they might tend to have certain bad habits crop up that only experience tells you is a killer for the team. Not to mention the vets provide at least a baseline production on the field in the event that the rookies fall apart during the season.

 

Despite the fact that there probably isn't any one Bills fan who was really happy about the extension of Kelsey, this is the one good thing that can be taken out of it: The organization seems to be willing to spend money on players who are marked to be replaced, but serve a purpose as leaders, so they can help to endoctrinate the younger players with the culture of the club. Obviously if the culture is poor you might not want those vet players fostering that culture to be retained to train the younger kids, but, at least in Kelsey's case, I think the problem is more talent than attitude, which makes him somewhat of a good fit for this (hopefully) temporary role.

[yungmack]

That was actually Ted Washington. TD let Pat Williams walk because he thought PW was close to the end.

Tom Donohoe had a rule of thumb that you don't give big contracts to guys on the wrong side of 30, which apparently was the reason the Bills didn't offer Williams a new contract.

 

As to the complaint about not giving Williams a contract, but overpaying for Kelsay, this is FOUR front office regimes later. I see no correlation.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I dont know what the Bills were doing that year. Coming off a 9-7 year we got rid of Bledsoe and Pat Williams and our big signings were Bennie Anderson and Kelly Holcomb.

 

Strange off season because neither Williams now Bledsoe wanted out.

Edited December 3, 2010 by TheTruthHurts

[Stussy109]

I lived next dor to Izell Reese during P Williams last year on the team, and Reese told me flat out the Bills biggest offseason priority was resigning Pat Williams, and keeping the Defense intact. What do you know Williams walks, and we havent been the same since.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

My memory might be off on this one but I seem to remember Donahoe setting up some sort of "first come, first served" dynamic between Pat Williams and Aaron Schobel.

 

I remember him saying the team couldn't afford to keep both of them.

 

I also remember that when Donahoe initially arrived in 2001 that the Bills were in salary cap "Hell" due to John Butler's regime and that he was in slash and burn mode…but I don't think that had anything to do with the Pat Williams situation in 2004.

[eball]

How about that Darryl Lamonica trade?

 

PTR

Awesome.

[Doc]

Tom Donohoe had a rule of thumb that you don't give big contracts to guys on the wrong side of 30, which apparently was the reason the Bills didn't offer Williams a new contract.

 

As to the complaint about not giving Williams a contract, but overpaying for Kelsay, this is FOUR front office regimes later. I see no correlation.

It was also 5 years ago, not to mention prior to the last CBA. Player salaries have risen considerably since then.

[Webster Guy]

Tom Donohoe had a rule of thumb that you don't give big contracts to guys on the wrong side of 30, which apparently was the reason the Bills didn't offer Williams a new contract.

 

As to the complaint about not giving Williams a contract, but overpaying for Kelsay, this is FOUR front office regimes later. I see no correlation.

Thats why I started this post, because there SHOULD be a correlation. Its OK to change GM's, although we had one of the best here and let him go. But the owner is always the owner and he's the one that can lead with some consistency with regard to player loyalty (within reason of course) It seems that the Ralph of the early 1990's had player loyalty and established a mutual respect with the players. That's faded fast since he hit his 80's and now in his 90's lets face it we're a company without a CEO or board of directors and it shows.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Webster Guy

[The Senator]

How about that Darryl Lamonica trade?

 

PTR

I still can't get past the CookieGilchrist trade. Never got over it.

[jumbalaya]

I know this has been beaten to death but we let big Pat walk for a 3 year $13 million dollar deal (he said he wouldve taken even less)and we just signed Kelsay to a 4 year $24 million dollar deal. Talk about organizational inconsistency.

 

I don't care who your GM is at the time, if you have an astute owner he doesn't let that type of athlete and team leader leave to save a few peanuts. I understand letting Clements and even Winfield walk because of the FA money they wanted, but I feel embarassed for Ralph and how disconnected he has been to his team for so long now when you look at moves like big Pat's.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and yes he was getting older and at that questionable age for performance and durability, but he didn't want a long term deal anyway or crazy upfront money.

 

I don't expect an NFL owner to be a talent judge or a financial expert, but you need them to be involved to the point that players feel some loyalty to them and vice versa. I hope our next owner brings this to the organization.

Williams vs Kelsay. Say what you want but it's Black vs White. Clements, Winfield, Peters, Greer, Williams, Spikes, TO and Fletcher are all black men that wanted to be paid close to market or market rates -- all get cut or traded. Kelsay, a slow white guy and they can't overpay him fast enough.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Williams vs Kelsay. Say what you want but it's Black vs White. Clements, Winfield, Peters, Greer, Williams, Spikes, TO and Fletcher are all black men that wanted to be paid close to market or market rates -- all get cut or traded. Kelsay, a slow white guy and they can't overpay him fast enough.

They also extended Aaron Schobel.

 

On the other hand, the team has extended Fred Jackson (although I hear he's lukewarm about the contract…he had no leverage). They also extended Roscoe Parrish in 2007, and Terrence McGee last year (why I'll never know).

 

In addition, they've discussed a contract extension with Donte Whitner but not Paul Poszluzny.

 

So I think your theory doesn't really hold water. I certainly hope it doesn't.

 

And Terrence McGee has been extended twice by the club.

[billsfreak]

In fairness to RW, he had nothing to do with letting Pat Williams go. It was the first time in team history that RW created the title and delegated TOTAL control to a team president, Tom Donahoe. When TD hired Greg Williams, GW decreed that Pat Williams was "fat" and didn't fit the mold of his great 46 defensive schemes. He was gonna beat the run with "speed and numbers." He didn't like oversized DLmen. Exit PW.

 

It's no coincidence that after the failure of the TD experiment RW hasn't given any one person total control of football operations since.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Ralph is the owner of the franchise, so he can over rule anyone anytime if he wants. I was listening to an interview with Pat Williams the other day on the NFL channel on Sirius radio and they ended the interview by mentioning that he gets to play his old team. His reply was something like, "Don't think I don't know that, it has been on my mind since 2006." Sounds like he is still bitter that Buffalo and Ralph didn't keep him here because I know he really wanted to stay. Just one of the many blunders this team has made, but one of the bigger ones for sure.

[K-9]

Williams vs Kelsay. Say what you want but it's Black vs White. Clements, Winfield, Peters, Greer, Williams, Spikes, TO and Fletcher are all black men that wanted to be paid close to market or market rates -- all get cut or traded. Kelsay, a slow white guy and they can't overpay him fast enough.

 

I'm sorry, who became the highest paid player in Bills history after they extended him?

 

Care to name a couple former Bills who were the highest paid players at their positions in the league at one time?

 

Look for something long enough and you'll find it. No matter where you look.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[billsfreak]

Williams vs Kelsay. Say what you want but it's Black vs White. Clements, Winfield, Peters, Greer, Williams, Spikes, TO and Fletcher are all black men that wanted to be paid close to market or market rates -- all get cut or traded. Kelsay, a slow white guy and they can't overpay him fast enough.

You are joking right? If not, I am speechless, it is so ridiculous. Clements and Winfield wanted and got way more than they were worth. Spikes was coming off being injured and asked for his release, and still is only a shadow of what he was his first two years here. Jason Peters wasn't worth what he was getting, he gave up more sacks than any LT in football, and he wanted a new contract every other game. Fletcher they should have kept, but I think they let him go more because they were changing defenses, and everyone knew T.O. was here for one year, regardless what ethnicity he was, they brought him in to sell tickets for one season. Greer is a good young talent, but why pay big bucks when he plays in the only area on the roster that we actually have quality, cheaper depth. 60% or more that are let go are going to be African Americans, because at least that percentage of the NFL's players are African Americans. So by your theory, Fred Jackson, Lee Evans, McGee and many others must have left the race block on their contracts blank, because they are all African Americans who got extensions. Also, of the names you mentioned, only Peters was traded, and I believe all of the others' contracts were up and they left as free agents, although I agree they should have kept Williams, that is the life in the NFL fitting under salary caps. Ralph Wilson might be the NFL's worst owner, for sure the cheapest owner, has driven this franchise into the dirt, but there are no grounds to call him a racists. If anyone is a racist, it would be someone who posted the type of post you did. Some people could watch an episode of the Flintstones and cry racism after watching it. Get a life. Edited December 3, 2010 by billsfreak

[Doc]

Ralph is the owner of the franchise, so he can over rule anyone anytime if he wants. I was listening to an interview with Pat Williams the other day on the NFL channel on Sirius radio and they ended the interview by mentioning that he gets to play his old team. His reply was something like, "Don't think I don't know that, it has been on my mind since 2006." Sounds like he is still bitter that Buffalo and Ralph didn't keep him here because I know he really wanted to stay. Just one of the many blunders this team has made, but one of the bigger ones for sure.

Every player that is let go by his former team wants to show them that they made a mistake. I'm sure Spencer Johnson feels the same way about the Vikes.

[DrDawkinstein]

Williams vs Kelsay. Say what you want but it's Black vs White. Clements, Winfield, Peters, Greer, Williams, Spikes, TO and Fletcher are all black men that wanted to be paid close to market or market rates -- all get cut or traded. Kelsay, a slow white guy and they can't overpay him fast enough.

 

this is the dumbest thing Ive seen posted in a while, and that's saying something given the fact that it's usually a dumb-post contest around here.

[CardinalScotts]

How about that Darryl Lamonica trade?

 

PTR

 

 

 

Might be the funniest response ever

 

Agree that was the funniest response I've ever read in here

[K-9]

Ralph is the owner of the franchise, so he can over rule anyone anytime if he wants. I was listening to an interview with Pat Williams the other day on the NFL channel on Sirius radio and they ended the interview by mentioning that he gets to play his old team. His reply was something like, "Don't think I don't know that, it has been on my mind since 2006." Sounds like he is still bitter that Buffalo and Ralph didn't keep him here because I know he really wanted to stay. Just one of the many blunders this team has made, but one of the bigger ones for sure.

 

Blame RW for everything that's wrong with the Bills if you feel that way. I was just pointing out that RW had taken an unprecedented step in giving TOTAL control over ALL football operations to one man by stepping down as team president and giving the title to TD. Williams was TD's decision and TD's decision alone. Giving someone total control means just that, total control. Perhaps RW should have meddled but then people around here would B word at him about that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Williams vs Kelsay. Say what you want but it's Black vs White. Clements, Winfield, Peters, Greer, Williams, Spikes, TO and Fletcher are all black men that wanted to be paid close to market or market rates -- all get cut or traded. Kelsay, a slow white guy and they can't overpay him fast enough.

They also extended Aaron Schobel.

 

On the other hand, the team has extended Fred Jackson (although I hear he's lukewarm about the contract…he had no leverage). They also extended Roscoe Parrish in 2007, and Terrence McGee last year (why I'll never know).

 

In addition, they've discussed a contract extension with Donte Whitner but not Paul Posluszny.

 

And Terrence McGee has been extended twice by the club.

As others have pointed out, they also extended Lee Evans and made him the highest paid player in team history.

 

They also gave Marcus Stroud a two-year extension last year, and like with McGee, I can't imagine why. The Stroud and McGee extensions were bad decisions, IMO.

 

So yeah. You're way off on this one.

[BillsFanM.D.]

How about that Darryl Lamonica trade?

 

PTR

 

 

How about that Darryl Lamonica trade?

 

PTR

 

 

 

Might be the funniest response ever

 

 

Awesome.

 

 

Agree that was the funniest response I've ever read in here

 

................................................................................................................. Now that I've finished laughing, I'll agree. Hilarious. Better question is how many folks are reading that and thinking what????

[Meathead]

the kelsay number is an agent marketing scheme, he will never recieve twenty four mil. he is paid like an average nfl de, nothing more

 

"In dollars and cents, the Kelsay deal makes sense. He reportedly got a $2 million bonus up front and a few hundred grand added to his 2010 salary so that the Bills could retain his services beyond this season without committing too much money long-term. Kelsay’s base salary for next season is $2 million, a meager sum for a starting linebacker. Beyond that, his base salary is about $3.5 million per year. It’s doubtful that much, if any, of the future money is guaranteed. The $24 million is an agent-inflated figure that includes incentives unlikely to be earned, and bonuses that could facilitate the contract being terminated early."

 

http://tonawanda-news.com/buffalobills/x1864897670/An-endorsement-of-losing-by-extension

[Chandler#81]

How about that Darryl Lamonica trade?

 

PTR

 

 

 

Well, we did get a Super Bowl winning QB in return..

 

Sort of..

 

Tom Flores was a QB for the Raiders before the trade. And later, as HC, his Raiders (with Chandler#81) beat Philly in the SB.

 

So we got that goin' for us..

[Nanker]

the kelsay number is an agent marketing scheme, he will never recieve twenty four mil. he is paid like an average nfl de, nothing more

 

"In dollars and cents, the Kelsay deal makes sense. He reportedly got a $2 million bonus up front and a few hundred grand added to his 2010 salary so that the Bills could retain his services beyond this season without committing too much money long-term. Kelsay's base salary for next season is $2 million, a meager sum for a starting linebacker. Beyond that, his base salary is about $3.5 million per year. It's doubtful that much, if any, of the future money is guaranteed. The $24 million is an agent-inflated figure that includes incentives unlikely to be earned, and bonuses that could facilitate the contract being terminated early."

 

http://tonawanda-new...ng-by-extension

 

Cue the "Ralph is Cheap" peanut gallery in 3, 2, 1...

[The Senator]

 

Well, we did get a Super Bowl winning QB in return..

 

Sort of..

 

Tom Flores was a QB for the Raiders before the trade. And later, as HC, his Raiders (with Chandler#81) beat Philly in the SB.

 

So we got that goin' for us..

And I'm still pissed-off about the Chandler trade, too!

 

(May he RIP)

[Doc]

Cue the "Ralph is Cheap" peanut gallery in 3, 2, 1...

 

But good to know that his extension was actually cheap.

[billsfreak]

Blame RW for everything that's wrong with the Bills if you feel that way. I was just pointing out that RW had taken an unprecedented step in giving TOTAL control over ALL football operations to one man by stepping down as team president and giving the title to TD. Williams was TD's decision and TD's decision alone. Giving someone total control means just that, total control. Perhaps RW should have meddled but then people around here would B word at him about that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I am not blaming everything on RW, but to say he had absolutely nothing to do with anything is ridiculous. He is the captain of this sunken ship, so ultimately everything falls on him, whether you like it or not. He can give someone a title, but it was still his checkbook, so don't kid yourself into thinking he had no say at all because of the position title he gave Donohue.

 

And I'm still pissed-off about the Chandler trade, too!

 

(May he RIP)

That did kinda suck, but I am sure in the end he was glad he got traded, he got a Super Bowl ring if I am not mistaken.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

ou can't have it both ways. People are often complaining how RW is to meddlesome. Now you're asking for him to over rule the GM?? He gave total control to TD, so if TD wants to get rid of him, you don't stop him, unless you want to be the GM. I'd give credit to RW, for not trying to think he knows more about talent and over ruling TD. Did this one work out well, clearly in hindsight no it didn't. But don't try and blame that on the owner.

 

I don't care who your GM is at the time, if you have an astute owner he doesn't let that type of athlete and team leader leave to save a few peanuts. I understand letting Clements and even Winfield walk because of the FA money they wanted, but I feel embarassed for Ralph and how disconnected he has been to his team for so long now when you look at moves like big Pat's.

[Kelly the Dog]

You can't have it both ways. A good majority of you call ralph a meddling owner and don't want him anywhere near football decisions. And now we have someone calling for Ralph to be a meddling owner. Just can't win with you guys.

 

In that lone particular instance, yes. But the fact is that Ralph was a meddling owner for 90% of his 50 years. The one time he wasn't was, as mentioned above, when he hired the big name guy at the time, Tom Donahoe, who demanded full control. Ralph took an uncharacteristic back seat and gave TD the Presidency title and total control. It bit Ralph in the ass as TD became a tyrant, alienated a lot of people, hired some bad coaches and made some questionable personnel decisions. When Ralph got rid of him, he went back to his meddling ways.

[Mr_Blizzard]

I know this has been beaten to death but we let big Pat walk for a 3 year $13 million dollar deal (he said he wouldve taken even less)and we just signed Kelsay to a 4 year $24 million dollar deal. Talk about organizational inconsistency.

 

I don't care who your GM is at the time, if you have an astute owner he doesn't let that type of athlete and team leader leave to save a few peanuts. I understand letting Clements and even Winfield walk because of the FA money they wanted, but I feel embarassed for Ralph and how disconnected he has been to his team for so long now when you look at moves like big Pat's.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and yes he was getting older and at that questionable age for performance and durability, but he didn't want a long term deal anyway or crazy upfront money.

 

I don't expect an NFL owner to be a talent judge or a financial expert, but you need them to be involved to the point that players feel some loyalty to them and vice versa. I hope our next owner brings this to the organization.

 

And what's more amazing is thar Pat is still playing now - 5 years after we let him walk, and he's 38 years old. The front office really stepped in it that with that guy..