Jay Cutler vs Fitzy

[thewildrabbit]

Who would you rather have as your QB.. Jay Cutler or Ryan Fitzpatrick?

 

Just wanted to point out that the Bears are running that Mike Martz offense, you know the one that plagued the Bills for 4 years under Jauron / Steve Failrchild, it is now plaguing Jay Cutler in Chicago. The Bears have an O line that is actually better then the Bills, but Cutler is getting killed trying to throw 5-7 step drop passes behind a bad O line...sound familiar?

 

Chicago is sitting there at 4-3 and tied for the lead in that division, but not for long if Martz keeps trying to throw deep every play. If anyone has watched that Bears team recently I'd think you would say ...jeez they have a really good running game and a top RB in Matt Forte, why not run the ball more. They have a good defense that keeps the game close, but not if the QB is going to throw 4 picks to the same defender. Cutler still had 281 yards passing and is the prototype gunslinger, but Martz and those deep passing plays are gonna get him killed. Cutler has already been concussed once this season and has been sacked 19 times. He was sacked 9 times by the NY Giants and knocked out of the game.

 

The Bills play KC next but have the Bears at home after that game, they play @ Buffalo on Nov 7th. Now considering Buffalo has almost no pass rush I expect Cutler will rip apart the Bills D in the air and have a really good game as Chicago is coming off a bye. .

 

This past week Fitz tore the Ravens pass defense a new one and if the Bills ran the ball better and had a better defense they could have easily dominated that game and won. With a better O line, defense and running game they could have beaten the Pats-Jags-Ravens and be 3-3 at this time Getting Cornell Green off the field also seemed to help that O line immensely.

 

If Chan Gailey can actually get Spiller the ball 10-15 times a game and run Fred Jackson more.... the Bills might actually start to win despite the bad defense. Chan Gailey has worked some magic on Fitz no question about it, now if he can work some magic on that running game the Bills might have a viable threat to win games How long can Fitz carry the team on his shoulders all alone, he needs some help with the running game.

 

 

Anyway, as good as Fitz has been playing I would still rather have Jay Cutler, just without Mike Martz and his crappy offensive scheme that only works with a pro bowl O line! Should Martz grow a brain and start setting up the offense with quick passes like Gailey has done, things might change for the Bears.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. Although If Fitz can keep playing like he did Sunday against the Ravens, I just might change my mind

Edited October 27, 2010 by Harvey lives

[Lintyfresh85]

Cutler, certainly.

 

Love what Fitzpatrick is bringing to the Bills, though!

 

Hope he keeps it up all year long!

 

Having said that, Gailey made a start (at least in fantasy) out of Tyler Thigpen. Seems his system on offense is conducive to big QB numbers.

[MRW]

No way I'd want Cutler. I actually thought the Bills should have gone after him when he was on the trading block, but now I'm glad they didn't.

 

That's completely independent of my opinion of Fitzpatrick, BTW. Cutler's just one of those guys who will dazzle you with his physical abilities, but make boneheaded play after play. Wouldn't want to see him anywhere near the team.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Who would you rather have as your QB.. Jay Cutler or Ryan Fitzpatrick?

 

Just wanted to point out that the Bears are running that Mike Martz offense, you know the one that plagued the Bills for 4 years under Jauron / Steve Failrchild, it is now plaguing Jay Cutler in Chicago. The Bears have an O line that is actually better then the Bills, but Cutler is getting killed trying to throw 5-7 step drop passes behind a bad O line...sound familiar?

 

Chicago is sitting there at 4-3 and tied for the lead in that division, but not for long if Martz keeps trying to throw deep every play. If anyone has watched that Bears team recently I'd think you would say ...jeez they have a really good running game and a top RB in Matt Forte, why not run the ball more.

 

Mike Martz....ooooh, you got me started.

Martz trashed Warner out as QB of StL in my opinion. The local media started calling him "Mad Mike".

His first year in StL, he kept reasonably close to the balanced 530 pass, 431 run attempts that won the '99 Superbowl. Warner was sacked 20 times.

In 2001, they lost a great blocking TE to injury, Warner was sacked 38 times. Next year, they lost an OL to injury and started a rookie, passed almost TWICE as many times as they ran. Rams QB were sacked 33 times. Warner was relatively ineffective and benched (he was "washed up").

 

Want Martz to run a balanced attack or alter his scheme to match the personnel -- Good luck with that. Let me know how it goes.

 

Aside, I really like Fitz. I'm for let's see how the rest of the season goes, though. Let's not go overboard on either side, bashing or canonizing after limited games.

[Stealth]

Having said that, Gailey made a start (at least in fantasy) out of Tyler Thigpen. Seems his system on offense is conducive to big QB numbers.

 

Fitz is so far beyond Tyler Thigpen it's ridiculous, and if you look at Thigpens #'s they're actually really lousy. Acceptable td #'s but his completion pct, ypa are downright bad. Not to mention that they played the pistol offense. It's a slap in the face to compare Thigpen to Fitzpatrick.

 

2008-09 Kansas City 14 76.0 230 420 54.8 2608 186.3 6.2 18 12

 

2010-11 Buffalo 4 102.0 81 128 63.3 969 242.3 7.6 11 4

 

Fitz should undoubtedly smash Thigpens #'s even if his td's level out

[Sabre Bill]

And remember, "Bo and Mo" like Fitzy better!

[altleg]

Who would you rather have as your QB.. Jay Cutler or Ryan Fitzpatrick?

 

The Bills play KC next but have the Bears at home after that game, they play @ Buffalo on Nov 7th. Now considering Buffalo has almost no pass rush I expect Cutler will rip apart the Bills D in the air and have a really good game as Chicago is coming off a bye. .

 

 

I have a real tough time thinking of the game vs. Chicago in Toronto as a "home" game. Maybe neutral site?

[Thoner7]

for week 7 of the NFL 2010 or over the length of their careers?

[The Senator]

Who would you rather have as your QB.. Jay Cutler or Ryan Fitzpatrick?

 

Just wanted to point out that the Bears are running that Mike Martz offense, you know the one that plagued the Bills for 4 years under Jauron / Steve Failrchild, it is now plaguing Jay Cutler in Chicago. The Bears have an O line that is actually better then the Bills, but Cutler is getting killed trying to throw 5-7 step drop passes behind a bad O line...sound familiar?

 

Chicago is sitting there at 4-3 and tied for the lead in that division, but not for long if Martz keeps trying to throw deep every play. If anyone has watched that Bears team recently I'd think you would say ...jeez they have a really good running game and a top RB in Matt Forte, why not run the ball more. They have a good defense that keeps the game close, but not if the QB is going to throw 4 picks to the same defender. Cutler still had 281 yards passing and is the prototype gunslinger, but Martz and those deep passing plays are gonna get him killed. Cutler has already been concussed once this season and has been sacked 19 times. He was sacked 9 times by the NY Giants and knocked out of the game.

 

The Bills play KC next but have the Bears at home after that game, they play @ Buffalo on Nov 7th. Now considering Buffalo has almost no pass rush I expect Cutler will rip apart the Bills D in the air and have a really good game as Chicago is coming off a bye. .

 

This past week Fitz tore the Ravens pass defense a new one and if the Bills ran the ball better and had a better defense they could have easily dominated that game and won. With a better O line, defense and running game they could have beaten the Pats-Jags-Ravens and be 3-3 at this time Getting Cornell Green off the field also seemed to help that O line immensely.

 

If Chan Gailey can actually get Spiller the ball 10-15 times a game and run Fred Jackson more.... the Bills might actually start to win despite the bad defense. Chan Gailey has worked some magic on Fitz no question about it, now if he can work some magic on that running game the Bills might have a viable threat to win games How long can Fitz carry the team on his shoulders all alone, he needs some help with the running game.

 

 

Anyway, as good as Fitz has been playing I would still rather have Jay Cutler, just without Mike Martz and his crappy offensive scheme that only works with a pro bowl O line! Should Martz grow a brain and start setting up the offense with quick passes like Gailey has done, things might change for the Bears.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. Although If Fitz can keep playing like he did Sunday against the Ravens, I just might change my mind

Never wanted Cutler to begin with, and don't know of too many who did.

 

Come back and blow your horn on November 8th.

[thewildrabbit]

for week 7 of the NFL 2010 or over the length of their careers?

The latter....either "Mad" Mike Martz changes his offense or he gets fired again, and soon.

 

Jay Cutler has the stronger arm, but is obviously missing Mike Shanahan and Brandon Marshall at this point, with Marshall he could throw the ball up and had confidence that Brandon would get it, he doesn't have that type of receiver in Chicago. Cutler has 2 speed burners like Parrish,but has no clear #1 receiver like Marshall. Even the Bills have a better receiver in Lee Evans who is better then either Johnny Knox and Devin Hester. Martz is such a putz that you would think he would use the running game with Matt Forte and his speedy really good TE in Greg Olsen, but he doesn't.

 

Martz is a complete fool for not utilizing his scheme to fit the players instead of forcing his players to make his scheme work, now you know why I bitched about the Bills offense under Fairchild-Schonert-AVP for the last 4 years.

 

 

What Bills fans don't realize yet is ...Fitz is making that line look better then it is, and that if the Bills played the NY Giants it would show everyone just how bad that Bills O line still is. I'm thinking we will see it when the Bills play the Steeler's in a few weeks, I can only hope Fitz lives thru that game.

 

 

Just like Mike Martz, Chan Gailey needs to start running the ball more using play action, he can't expect Fitz to carry the offense every game all by himself.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Harvey lives

[Phil Hansen Forever]

Cutler has stunk up the stadium for a long time. I'm impressed with Fitz at least over the past two games, but not sure if he is the answer or not. Certainly our defense needs a major overhaul, and I would rather keep Fitz and build a defense, than waste the draft pic on an unproven QB.

[Coach Tuesday]

I would take Cutler in a heartbeat. Mike Martz is an idiot. The days of seven-step drops and 20-yard digs and curls are pretty much over, especially if you have a mediocre to sub-part offensive line, which the Bears do. Couple that with a fairly immobile QB and a stubborn refusal to run the ball, and you have a recipe for disaster. IMO Cutler is one of the best young talents at the QB position in the NFL, but he is matched up with a psychopath for an offensive coordinator. If Cutler was with Shannahan on the Redskins, and McNabb was with Martz on the Bears, both teams would be in much better shape.

[thewildrabbit]

I would take Cutler in a heartbeat. Mike Martz is an idiot. The days of seven-step drops and 20-yard digs and curls are pretty much over, especially if you have a mediocre to sub-part offensive line, which the Bears do. Couple that with a fairly immobile QB and a stubborn refusal to run the ball, and you have a recipe for disaster. IMO Cutler is one of the best young talents at the QB position in the NFL, but he is matched up with a psychopath for an offensive coordinator. If Cutler was with Shannahan on the Redskins, and McNabb was with Martz on the Bears, both teams would be in much better shape.

 

Perfectly stated

 

My only problem is that McNabb to the Bears part, while I agree that a mobile QB would be more suited to Martz's system at this point, like Fitz or Vick with that bad Bears O line, I think McNabb has pretty much become more of a pocket passer and would get killed behind that Bears O line, as he would behind the Bills O line.

 

Everyone seems to forget that Fitz is pretty darn good at running for his life, like he did against the Jets... Fitz was the leading Bills rusher in that game. If the Bills don't start running the ball more Fitz is gonna get killed or injured one of these games, Gailey needs to realize that Fred Jackson is an unbelievable talent in making yards on his own. Remember that Gailey line, " a good RB will make the O line block better", dunno about that, but Fast Freddy sure does make that Bills O line LOOK better, as does Fitz

[Chandemonium]

Fitzpatrick

[macaroni]

IMHO ...

 

I see a little bit of Trent Edwards in Cutler ... he seems to hold on to the ball a bit too long waiting for his reciever to get open therefore making his line look worse than they really are.

I also see a bit of Jim Kelly in Fitz ... he is determined to get the ball to the reciever no matter what ... he'll throw threw a brick wall if necessary ... make a dumb play here and there ... but the ball is getting out of his hands NOW and he allows his reciever to make a play.

 

I'm not saying Cutler is as bad as Trent, or Fitz is as good as Jim ... but I'm just sayin'

 

I'll take Fitz

[Van_phelaN1]

I agree. I would take Fitz's leadership and attitude over Cutler's superior talent. Cutler can be a really good QB with a rocket arm, but has always seemed like a whiny little girl to me.

 

You said it. Even if Fitz isn't the answer he is one thing. A leader. Honestly a couple of weeks ago when i was watching him play I thought to myself "why does Fitz look like he is the only player out there who is still trying?"

 

This past week I saw guys fighting for their QB and trying to get open. The defense was awful but you could tell by the way Edwards was playing and yelling that there was at least some passion. Gailey said it right when he said they played real tough and with real heart but they didnt play smart when they needed to. I think a leader is far more important to a team in our position than raw talent on any level which is why i have been worried about drafting a rookie QB. But even now worst case scenario even if we do draft some number 1 prospect at least we know we have a guy with some balls showing him the ropes when he gets here. I know Steve Johnson doesn't want Fitz going ANYWHERE lol.

[dgrid]

I agree. I would take Fitz's leadership and attitude over Cutler's superior talent. Cutler can be a really good QB with a rocket arm, but has always seemed like a whiny little girl to me.

exactly exactly exactly.

Cutler has alot of talent, but he's gotta fix the interception problem, and stop whining.

[Astrojanitor]

Cutler is an arrogant mess who is no way near as consistent as Fitz...and Fitz has serious consistency issues. Cutler has a lot of talent, but he clearly does no have the mind of a starter. He's too easily rattled. Look at his bad games. Once he starts making mistakes the wheels fall off. How many INTs did he have last year? It was over 25 if I remember correctly. Who needs that stress? We have enough problems already.

[Alphadawg7]

Hard to judge Cutler under Martz as I personally think Martz style is not very good. In fact, coming into the season everyone said that under Martz that Cutler will throw a lot of picks and take a lot sacks because thats the downside to Martz's system.

 

Cutler clearly has to get better on his decision making to ever be a top tier QB in this league, unfortunately I dont think he will ever do that under Martz. I actually believe that Cutler would fare much better here then in Chicago as he has better weapons and Chans systems seem to get the best out of his QB's in comparison to what other coaches tend to get out of the same QB's.

 

For me, it would be a close call but based on potential and talent I would take Cutler if I could make this swap today. I like what Fitz is doing, how hard he plays, and the growth he is showing...but his performance against the Ravens is really just one game as he hasnt had a game like that for us before. Lets face the truth too, his 2 critical mistakes were very costly in that Ravens game too. Its a little premature to go out and expect this to be the norm from him right now. If Fitz keeps this up the next couple of weeks I would almost certainly change my mind.

 

So, I would give the slight edge to Cutler being better in our system as we sit today, but I actually think Fitz might be better than Cutler in Martz's system.

[Leonidas]

Does this mean that the Cutler/Edwards debate is over??

[Rico]

Fitz.... and just about anybody over that B word.

[C.Biscuit97]

I would take Cutler in a heartbeat. Mike Martz is an idiot. The days of seven-step drops and 20-yard digs and curls are pretty much over, especially if you have a mediocre to sub-part offensive line, which the Bears do. Couple that with a fairly immobile QB and a stubborn refusal to run the ball, and you have a recipe for disaster. IMO Cutler is one of the best young talents at the QB position in the NFL, but he is matched up with a psychopath for an offensive coordinator. If Cutler was with Shannahan on the Redskins, and McNabb was with Martz on the Bears, both teams would be in much better shape.

 

 

Martz has only been Cutler's coach for one season. Who else you gonna blame for Cutler not having a winning season since high school and leading the NFL in INTs since he entered the league?

 

So QBs have a knack for winning games. Cutler has a knack for losing them. For a guy who went to a great school, he plays braindead. He's a loser and absolutely the last guy I'd want to build my franchise around.

 

2 1sts and Orton for Cutler is one of the biggest robberies in NFL history.

[Mark Long Beach]

Martz has only been Cutler's coach for one season. Who else you gonna blame for Cutler not having a winning season since high school and leading the NFL in INTs since he entered the league?

 

So QBs have a knack for winning games. Cutler has a knack for losing them. For a guy who went to a great school, he plays braindead. He's a loser and absolutely the last guy I'd want to build my franchise around.

 

2 1sts and Orton for Cutler is one of the biggest robberies in NFL history.

 

Best summary I've seen. I completely agree. He has talent I don't dispute that. But so did Losman and Edwards. Blech, I wouldn't touch him with a 39 1/2 foot pole.

[agardin]

Best summary I've seen. I completely agree. He has talent I don't dispute that. But so did Losman and Edwards. Blech, I wouldn't touch him with a 39 1/2 foot pole.

 

Kitna threw for 4K yards with Martz as his OC, twice. He also had a bunch of picks, but that was the same basic team that went 0-16 when he got hurt in week 5 of the next season, not exactly a talent laden squad. Not sure what is going on with Cutler and I haven't seen any Bears games but from what is said by the experts is that he looks lost. I guess he is just not comfortable in Martz's system. Kurt Warner and Bulger did pretty well also.

Edited October 28, 2010 by agardin

[JPicc2114]

They have almost exactly the same throwing motion. Cutler may be a tad more accurate

[Fan in Chicago]

Martz has only been Cutler's coach for one season. Who else you gonna blame for Cutler not having a winning season since high school and leading the NFL in INTs since he entered the league?

 

So QBs have a knack for winning games. Cutler has a knack for losing them. For a guy who went to a great school, he plays braindead. He's a loser and absolutely the last guy I'd want to build my franchise around.

 

2 1sts and Orton for Cutler is one of the biggest robberies in NFL history.

In addition to the above, I would say that Cutler came to Chicago with a lot of fanfare and lot of hoopla. The expectations were gargantuan as they should have been considering what the Bears gave up for him. But pairing him with Martz was the wrong move (heck not too many QBs and offenses are matched well to Martz anyway but that is besides the point). As it is Cutler is careless with the ball and not a game manager. Both are qualities that I want in a QB, hence I prefer Fitz (atleast the way he has played these past few games).

Another thought may be that Gailey is making the most of what Fitz has to offer - a studious approach to the game, fast thinking on the field and ability to take calculated risks. Perhaps Gailey could have done the same for Cutler but Cutler does not strike me as a learner type.

Hence my vote goes for Fitz and I hope he continues to do well for us

Edited October 28, 2010 by Fan in Chicago

[Wagon Circler]

I agree. I would take Fitz's leadership and attitude over Cutler's superior talent. Cutler can be a really good QB with a rocket arm, but has always seemed like a whiny little girl to me.

That would be a disservice to all the whiny little girls out there.

Cutler is a baby.

[thewildrabbit]

I would take Cutler in a heartbeat. Mike Martz is an idiot. The days of seven-step drops and 20-yard digs and curls are pretty much over, especially if you have a mediocre to sub-part offensive line, which the Bears do. Couple that with a fairly immobile QB and a stubborn refusal to run the ball, and you have a recipe for disaster. IMO Cutler is one of the best young talents at the QB position in the NFL, but he is matched up with a psychopath for an offensive coordinator. If Cutler was with Shannahan on the Redskins, and McNabb was with Martz on the Bears, both teams would be in much better shape.

 

Gotta give credit where credit is due, Martz went over Cutlers bad habits and corrected them, like the bad footwork and off balance throws. Plus the Bears actually tried to run the ball more more then in past games, although they weren't very effective against the leagues worst run defense

 

31 rushes / 30 passes

 

I'll still take Cutler, looks like that Baltimore game was unique, and not gonna happen every week...then again it could be the norm if the Bills had a better O line and receivers that could hold on to the ball.

[Coach Tuesday]

Gotta give credit where credit is due, Martz went over Cutlers bad habits and corrected them, like the bad footwork and off balance throws. Plus the Bears actually tried to run the ball more more then in past games, although they weren't very effective against the leagues worst run defense

 

31 rushes / 30 passes

 

I'll still take Cutler, looks like that Baltimore game was unique, and not gonna happen every week...then again it could be the norm if the Bills had a better O line and receivers that could hold on to the ball.

 

Thanks HL, although I wish the Bills didn't have to lose to prove my point, the run/pass balance was good for the Bears (shocking), and Cutler looked a lot more mobile than I've seen him. He has all of the tools.

[Erik]

Thanks HL, although I wish the Bills didn't have to lose to prove my point, the run/pass balance was good for the Bears (shocking), and Cutler looked a lot more mobile than I've seen him. He has all of the tools.

 

Too bad he can't play us every week...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Fitzy has super smarts, arm strength, mobility, toughness, quick decision making and he continues to improve. Maddening thing is all of the sudden, in the clutch on the last two series his accuracy goes to he11 even though he was hitting guys on the hands 20 yard downfield in triple coverage two drives before...

 

 

He almost needs the voodoo dr kinda coach to help fix his spontaneous lapses in accuracy... Gotta be some mental block againt making the tosses when it matters...

 

 

Cutler = JP Losman. Been there, done that, no thanks.

 

 

[dpberr]

I'll take Fitzpatrick. I admit that I was not a Fitzpatrick guy at the beginning of the season, but I've loved the way he's played. For a while there, he was the only man on the team that showed up to play, especially the Jets game. As a fan I admire that.

 

I think his absolutely lethal timing for throwing an INT can be corrected. I think it takes time, coaching and mental adjustment to fully move from backup to starting QB. Besides, the more you play, the more you learn. He's only had 29 starts in his career (six seasons), including yesterday.

[bills44]

I'd take whichever QB is playing against the Bills D.