Season ticket base dropped by over 11,000

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

I didn't see it posted here.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/article183166.ece

[Another Point of View]

Thats because we waived Levi Brown.

[ACor58]

Makes sense. With the onfield performance and the general economic pessimism facing the entire country, just not WNY, that number does not surprise me. It is hard for a lot of families to justify the expense of season tickets when there is much uncertainty surrounding their jobs, etc.

[eball]

What's surprising to me is that they still sold 43K+...there were LOTS of reasons for fans not to renew.

[kasper13]

The TO factor? Ridiculous. I would say higher ticket prices, terrible economy and a continually bad losing team. I'm hearing people say the gameday experience has gone downhill as well. Still sold 43,925 season tickets. Not too bad. Attendance across the entire NFL is expected to be at its lowest total since the mid-90's. I think more people are investing in big screen HD TV's and Sunday Ticket. Used to be able to do both now it's one or the other. If the Bills were a playoff team, it wouldn't be a discussion, they'd easily sell 55,000 season tickets.

[billsfreak]

I didn't see it posted here.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/article183166.ece

The only thing surprising is that it didn't drop even further. When you figure in the following facts:

 

1. The economy sucks everywhere.

2. The Bills have sucked for over a decade.

3. The Bills made no "exciting" pickups during the offseason to give it a shot in the arm (like T.O. last season).

4. Even though it might (hopefully) turn out to be a good move in the long term, the signing of the current Head Coach and GM did nothing at all to excite anyone, in fact it probably cost the team ticket sales.

5. Did I say the team has sucked for over a decade?

[Doc]

What matters more is actual game day attendance. If the games sell out, or come close, the season ticket figures mean nothing.

[tennesseeboy]

Economy. People are spending their money a lot more carefully and looking for value. As to the value part, we've lost a lot of players, have new but not exciting coaches, are not predicted to be doing very well...so I think we should not be surprised.

 

That being said, I think we will pick up on the single game tickets as we win some games. I suspect we'll have more than our share of sell-outs...if we win.

[Kelly the Dog]

Another factor is, overall, a really crappy home schedule with the Jags, Lions and Browns. The Steelers is an automatic sellout as they travel well.

[Big Turk]

What matters more is actual game day attendance. If the games sell out, or come close, the season ticket figures mean nothing.

 

Game day attendance is down league wide, and has been the topic of popular sports radio shows like Colin Cow-turd and Jim Rome. Basically they said the economy sucks, the ticket prices keep going up, and the gameday experience is simply better at home on a 60 inch LCD 1080p TV where you can eat whatever you want, drink as much as you want, and not have to worry about some guy behind you yelling profanities every other play or puking on you.

 

Some valid points. 1080p has changed everything...its almost like you are on the field the picture is so clear. Clearly the NFL needs to come up with something special for the in-stadium people that can't be had on TV. They bandied about having something like NASCAR where you hear the pitcrews and driver talking. Said they should have the playcalls and coaches talking to each other being heard by the fans, even if it was on a 5 or 10 second delay. Sounds cool, but the I wonder if the owners would go for it?

[Doc]

Another factor is, overall, a really crappy home schedule with the Jags, Lions and Browns. The Steelers is an automatic sellout as they travel well.

The divisional games should sell well, as should the Steelers and Browns because of regional interest. The Jags and Lions could be really poorly attended.

[buffalobillsfootball]

All the reasons stated above make sense... (economy, no marquee players, no play offs, blah blah blah) but I am curious - do the BILLS advertise in Western/Central NY and Southern Ontario? You might argue that the Bills already have a known presence, etc but...

 

I was in Miami/Fort Lauderdale this past weekend and the Dolphins are advertising everywhere; even @ the beach they had planes pulling aerial advertisements pushing ticket sales.

[Bill from NYC]

The divisional games should sell well, as should the Steelers and Browns because of regional interest. The Jags and Lions could be really poorly attended.

 

Ya think? Colombus Day weather sure is great in WNY.

 

I am thinking that if Spiller breaks a long one or 2, this game will sell out, but who knows?

[Mr Info]

...The Jags and Lions could be really poorly attended.

 

I was very close to not renewing and decided to do it at the last minute. I have been able to scalp my tix to the Fins and Steelers games for OK $ but not near the demand as in previous years but, IMO, it is a reflection on the economy. But I will be attending the Lions and Jax games. Initially, I picked the Lions because I wanted to have a decent chance to see a win. But I used that same logic when I selected the Browns game last year.

[notwoz]

The divisional games should sell well, as should the Steelers and Browns because of regional interest. The Jags and Lions could be really poorly attended.

I don't know (he says with more than a hint of sarcasm), based on the power rankings the Jags and Lions are poised to become juggernauts!

Nonetheless, as one earlier poster noted, selling more that 40K season tickets is not too shabby given the economy and the team's recent history of mediocrity.

Also, IF the Bills start strong out of the gate, individual ticket sales for even the Jags and Lions should do well.

[PromoTheRobot]

Yet the Miami game is sold out with tickets going for $100+ on StubHub. Bills fans are just being cautious. If the Bills look good they will show up in droves. If they are 2-1 coming into the Jets game people will be climbing the fences to get back into RWS.

 

PTR

[dollars 2 donuts]

With all due respect to some of you who brought up the economy, do you really think that if the Bills were coming off a 10-6 season last year and we won at least one playoff game that there would be any (ANY) hesitation by these fans to buy the crap out of those tickets and sellout the whole season?

 

 

...this is definitely NOT one of those scenarios where "its the economy, stupid!".

[CodeMonkey]

Yet the Miami game is sold out with tickets going for $100+ on StubHub. Bills fans are just being cautious. If the Bills look good they will show up in droves. If they are 2-1 coming into the Jets game people will be climbing the fences to get back into RWS.

 

PTR

I agree. Most Bills fans who did not buy seasons this year are looking for a reason to buy tickets. If the Bills can give them one, a seat at the Ralph could be a hard thing to come by mid to late season.

[Dr. Trooth]

Makes sense. With the onfield performance and the general economic pessimism facing the entire country, just not WNY, that number does not surprise me. It is hard for a lot of families to justify the expense of season tickets when there is much uncertainty surrounding their jobs, etc.

 

 

economic pessimism "REALITY" facing "EXISTING IN" the entire country, just not WNY,

[dpberr]

Every team is going to lose money this year. No NFL team is going to make money in this nightmare of an economy. Not this year. Not with the middle class essentially tapped out financially or unemployed.

 

Be happy that the Bills will weather the storm better than some of their counterparts, regardless of on the field performance.

[Boatdrinks]

 

Some valid points. 1080p has changed everything...its almost like you are on the field the picture is so clear. Clearly the NFL needs to come up with something special for the in-stadium people that can't be had on TV. ?

 

 

 

Well, 1080p has nothing to do with it, as there is no programming in 1080p yet. That is pure marketing. With the exception of blu-ray (and even then most people could not distinguish 1080 from 720 as it can really only be seen on a screen larger than 50") the programming just isn't there yet. Yes, big screen plasmas and HDTV has made going to the game less attractive to some, and many are choosing to put disposable income into comforts in the home rather than season tickets.

[Kelly the Dog]

Every team is going to lose money this year. No NFL team is going to make money in this nightmare of an economy. Not this year. Not with the middle class essentially tapped out financially or unemployed.

 

Be happy that the Bills will weather the storm better than some of their counterparts, regardless of on the field performance.

NFL teams pretty much start the season making money. The entire roster is already paid for before they start because of TV money.

[Bill from NYC]

NFL teams pretty much start the season making money. The entire roster is already paid for before they start because of TV money.

 

True, and imo Ralph is in a good position to make money this season, just like any other season. If they have any early success, it is hard for me to imagine the Bills not selling out most of their games, especially in the warmer months.

 

And, I imagine the payroll isn't so high when compared to other teams, but this is pure speculation.

[billsfreak]

Another factor is, overall, a really crappy home schedule with the Jags, Lions and Browns. The Steelers is an automatic sellout as they travel well.

Steelers dont have to travel well, they have bandwagon fans all over the country, some don't evenknow what state Pittsburgh is in, just that they win almost every year.

[dpberr]

NFL teams pretty much start the season making money. The entire roster is already paid for before they start because of TV money.

 

Not necessarily. Suppose it matters on how you define "making money". Teams may have plenty of sales revenue, but little profit after paying down their massive debt service. In the Bills case, they have a better shot at turning a buck at the end of the season since they have very little to no debt to pay off.

 

In the case of the Jets, Giants, Patriots, etc. that revenue just gets recycled into paying down massive debt. You add in lackluster ticket sales due to a lousy economy, teams will tap into reserves to pay down their debt.

 

The NFL has a huge debt crisis that will impact the upcoming CBA and plenty of teams. The Bills are in good shape to weather the storm that other franchises will not.

[HurlyBurly51]

What matters more is actual game day attendance. If the games sell out, or come close, the season ticket figures mean nothing.

 

Actually, season tickets do mean something. A little something called cash flow and the time value of money.

[BillnutinHouston]

Actually, season tickets do mean something. A little something called cash flow and the time value of money.

 

+1

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

Steelers dont have to travel well, they have bandwagon fans all over the country, some don't evenknow what state Pittsburgh is in, just that they win almost every year.

 

West Virginia... or at least it looks like it.

 

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

Didn't think I would read this.

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/09/06/daily4.html

[dpberr]

Didn't think I would read this.

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/09/06/daily4.html

 

That is fascinating when you look at their attendance figures in previous years. The Chamber of Commerce had to have worked overtime to make that happen.

[Doc]

Actually, season tickets do mean something. A little something called cash flow and the time value of money.

The lost revenue from ~10K fewer season tickets wouldn't impact cash flow. And time value is off-set by the fact that season tix are discounted on average about $7 per game versus individual tickets. But as I was looking at season ticket prices, where the team would take a hit is the loss of 2 pre-season game at around $51/game (times 60%, for the home team).

[Amstel]

If I lived close enough I'd definitely get season tickets....

[Billsguy]

The only thing surprising is that it didn't drop even further. When you figure in the following facts:

 

1. The economy sucks everywhere.

2. The Bills have sucked for over a decade.

3. The Bills made no "exciting" pickups during the offseason to give it a shot in the arm (like T.O. last season).

4. Even though it might (hopefully) turn out to be a good move in the long term, the signing of the current Head Coach and GM did nothing at all to excite anyone, in fact it probably cost the team ticket sales.

5. Did I say the team has sucked for over a decade?

 

I'd say that is an accurate summary.

[PromoTheRobot]

Didn't think I would read this.

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/09/06/daily4.html

 

 

That is fascinating when you look at their attendance figures in previous years. The Chamber of Commerce had to have worked overtime to make that happen.

Not sure what they are #1 in. 44% jump maybe? If 14,000 is a 44% increase then the Jags only sold 31,200 season tickets last year. So now they are at 45,200. Plus how many of those new tickets are in the cheap seats? Upper deck seats start at just $30. The Rockpile in RWS are now $40.

 

PTR

[notwoz]

The lost revenue from ~10K fewer season tickets wouldn't impact cash flow. And time value is off-set by the fact that season tix are discounted on average about $7 per game versus individual tickets. But as I was looking at season ticket prices, where the team would take a hit is the loss of 2 pre-season game at around $51/game (times 60%, for the home team).

Help me with the math, Doc. Why would the preseason games matter and not the regular season games?

[Doc]

Apparently the rumblings that the Jags are primed for an imminent move have led the fans to pony-up for season tix. Plus I believe that their training camp was only open to season tix holders, or some other such tactic.

[dpberr]

Not sure what they are #1 in. 44% jump maybe? If 14,000 is a 44% increase then the Jags only sold 31,200 season tickets last year. So now they are at 45,200. Plus how many of those new tickets are in the cheap seats? Upper deck seats start at just $30. The Rockpile in RWS are now $40.

 

PTR

 

I don't think it's all those extra Jaguars fans they captured. It's probably the team, Chamber of Commerce and other civic-minded folks strong-arming local business to buy up the tickets for the sake of the local economy. You'll still have empty seats come game time.

[weehawk]

Those people that "climb the fences" to get back in after a few wins will feel as stupid as they did a few years back when we went 5-1 to start the season and then we tanked and missed the playoffs. You either want to be there win or lose, or you dont. You can either afford it, or you cant. Waiting for a few wins to help make up your mind whether or not to go is pretty dumb.

 

This just confirms my suspicions about how it's going to go down for this team. I'll repeat it for those that forgot or want to ignore the obvious...

 

* RW passes on

* Team goes to highest bidder

* Team stays in WNY while new owner gets settled

* New owner HAS to raise the price of everything to help pay the huge purchase price of the team

* Tickets go up to NFL average, which very few in WNY can or will choose to afford

* Team still sucks since new owner cant or wont pay for hot talent and no one that's any good will play, coach, or GM here anyway

* Season ticket base and general attendance drops considerably. Higher prices, bad team, and consistently bad economy all contribute.

* Owner threatens to leave without a new stadium, which will never get built

* Attendance continues to drop, team continues to suck

* Owner threatens to leave without X amount of season tickets and luxury boxes sold within the existing stadium

* X amount of tickets and boxes are not sold

* Team leaves

 

If you want to refer to problems with the economy as part of the basis for lower season ticket sales, hold on to your hats. This economy is not getting better and that's in good, solid business communities. WNY is not a good, solid business community. WNY jobs will continue to dry up and wages will continue to go down. The team is not going to get better, prices are going to go up, and RW will not be around forever to subsidize ticket prices. Bills tickets prices are third lowest in the NFL and yet we still LOST %11 of our season ticket base? Flame away, but I truly believe this is the Bills future.

 

 

 

Yet the Miami game is sold out with tickets going for $100+ on StubHub. Bills fans are just being cautious. If the Bills look good they will show up in droves. If they are 2-1 coming into the Jets game people will be climbing the fences to get back into RWS.

 

PTR

[Big Turk]

If you want to refer to problems with the economy as part of the basis for lower season ticket sales, hold on to your hats. This economy is not getting better and that's in good, solid business communities. WNY is not a good, solid business community. WNY jobs will continue to dry up and wages will continue to go down.

 

That seems to fly in the face of Buffalo being ranked the 3rd best housing market in the US and now within the past week, ranked the 7th best job market in the US by Forbes. Looks like things might finally be pointed in the right direction here...there has been a slow, but very noticeable change with industrial jobs leaving and high-tech jobs like the Bioinformatics industry,in which Buffalo and UB are one of the leading cities in the US, Yahoo, etc. We are clawing our way inch by inch, but at least moving in the right direction, which is more than can be said for a lot of places right now...

Edited September 8, 2010 by matter2003

[BillsVet]

The Bills sold ST's last year to the tune of 56k+ as the economy was rapidly faltering. I wouldn't singularly place the loss in sales on the TO signing, but of course he was a factor. Now, in the second year of the recession, their base drops 11k tickets. While this isn't a black and white issue, there's something to be said for the marketing/communications department continually amping up expectations and then seeing the team strike out during the season. For this reason, a wait and see attitude is more prevalent than homer fans realize or want to admit. After awhile, the citizens stop paying attention to the boy who cried wolf.

 

Being good in the NFL long term takes a LOT of good decisions from management to go along with significant resources. The Bills haven't made solid decisions in UFA and draft day, compounded by bad management from the field to on-high. The fans are reacting and playing the doubting Thomas role. Nothing wrong with that.