Bob in STL

Yes, looked good. Got hurt, and like many running backs that was it.

Could be a turning point “lessons learned “ game. We should have taken care of business in the red zone, then there would be no discussion about it. Thinking back to the Cleveland road game playoff loss, the Ronnie Harmon drop, that was a character builder for them. Let’s hope this one is too.

No to McCoy. Draft a stud to compliment Singletary. Get a bulldozer type back. for short yardage. Bonus if he can block and catch out of the backfield. Two good backs on rookie contracts, build for the future.

Fouts was terrible. Adios.

Terry Miller was the first name to come to mind. We had several players that started excellent, got injured, and never played the same. Dennis Shaw was the Offensive Rookie of the Year, then playing for some really horrible teams. He became a journeyman and faded away to oblivion.

Good to see.

Bill, i agree with you, Whitner was an Ok player - but at least a solid starter for several teams over 11 years. Look at the Bills First Round History. 57 picks and I count 30 picks that were the player is worse or similar to Whitner, and am being generous in a few cases. It could be more. I get there were better players on the board at the time, but you can look almost any Bills draft and find a first rounder picked after ours who was better -- with maybe the exceptions of OJ, and Bruce, and maybe the four years we picked 2nd last. the notion that he was a bust or one of the worst all time picks is not true. We have done a lot worse many times over - which is why our lifetime record is poor. Year Pick Player name Position College Notes 1966 8 Mike Dennis RB Ole Miss Worse than Whitner 1967 22 John Pitts S Arizona State Worse than Whitner 1968 9 Haven Moses WR San Diego State Similar Contribution to Whitner 1969 1 O.J. Simpson ^ RB USC 1970 5 Al Cowlings DT USC Worse than Whitner 1971 4 J. D. Hill WR Arizona State 1972 1 Walt Patulski DE Notre Dame Worse than Whitner 1973 7 Paul Seymour TE Michigan 1973 26 Joe DeLamielleure ^ G Michigan State 1974 18 Reuben Gant TE Oklahoma State Worse than Whitner 1975 19 Tom Ruud LB Nebraska Worse than Whitner 1976 18 Mario Clark DB Oregon 1977 12 Phil Dokes DT Oklahoma State Worse than Whitner 1978 5 Terry Miller RB Oklahoma State Similar Contribution to Whitner 1979 1 Tom Cousineau LB Ohio State Worse than Whitner 1979 5 Jerry Butler WR Clemson 1980 16 Jim Ritcher C North Carolina State 1981 28 Booker Moore RB Penn State Worse than Whitner 1982 19 Perry Tuttle WR Clemson Worse than Whitner 1983 12 Tony Hunter TE Notre Dame Worse than Whitner 1983 14 Jim Kelly ^ QB Miami (FL) 1984 26 Greg Bell RB Notre Dame Worse than Whitner 1985 1 Bruce Smith ^ DE Virginia Tech 1985 14 Derrick Burroughs DB Memphis State Better but injuries cut him short 1986 16 Ronnie Harmon RB Iowa Worse than Whitner 1986 20 Will Wolford OT Vanderbilt 1987 8 Shane Conlan LB Penn State 1988 — — No pick — — 1989 — — No pick — — 1990 16 James Williams DB Fresno State Worse than Whitner 1991 26 Henry Jones DB Illinois 1992 27 John Fina OT Arizona 1993 28 Thomas Smith DB North Carolina Similar Contribution to Whitner 1994 27 Jeff Burris DB Notre Dame Similar Contribution to Whitner 1995 14 Ruben Brown G Pittsburgh 1996 24 Eric Moulds WR Mississippi State 1997 23 Antowain Smith RB Houston 1998 — — No pick — — 1999 23 Antoine Winfield DB Ohio State 2000 26 Erik Flowers DE Arizona State Worse than Whitner 2001 21 Nate Clements DB Ohio State 2002 4 Mike Williams OT Texas Worse than Whitner 2003 23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (FL) Worse than Whitner 2004 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin 2004 22 J. P. Losman QB Tulane Worse than Whitner 2005 — — No pick — — 2006 8 Donte Whitner S Ohio State 2006 26 John McCargo DT North Carolina State Worse than Whitner 2007 12 Marshawn Lynch RB California 2008 11 Leodis McKelvin DB Troy Similar Contribution to Whitner 2009 11 Aaron Maybin DE Penn State Worse than Whitner 2009 28 Eric Wood C Louisville 2010 9 C.J. Spiller RB Clemson Similar Contribution to Whitner 2011 3 Marcell Dareus DT Alabama Similar Contribution to Whitner 2012 10 Stephon Gilmore CB South Carolina 2013 16 EJ Manuel QB Florida State Worse than Whitner 2014 4 Sammy Watkins WR Clemson 2015 — — No pick — — [3] 2016 19 Shaq Lawson DE Clemson Similar Contribution to Whitner 2017 27 Tre'Davious White CB LSU 2018 7 Josh Allen QB Wyoming 2018 16 Tremaine Edmunds LB Virginia Tech 2019 9 Ed Oliver DT Houston

I think the Bills have had many drafts worse than 2006. Beside Whitner, we drafted Kyle Williams and Brad Butler. All solid starters. Whitner had a better career than a whole bunch of the first rounders drafted after him that year. I admit the first round was not good but unfortunately, the Bills have done worse. 1 8 Donte Whitner, DB A controversial pick for many at TBD because most did not want to see a SS picked at #8. He played 157 games in 11 seasons, and started 152 of them. He made 2 Pro Bowls, one in the AFC and one in the NFC. His level of “badness” is more TBD legend than reality. There are so many bad or failed Bills first rounder’s - Whitner is not even in the top 20. 1 26 John McCargo, DT Total Bust 3 70 Ashton Youboty, DB No impact, not good. 4 105 Ko Simpson, DB Played a little and was not a good player 5 134 Kyle Williams, DT One of our best All Time players 5 143 Brad Butler, OT Solid Starter – injuries cut career short 6 178 Keith Ellison, LB Solid player, backup ,and ST 7 16 Terrance Pennington, OT Backup for a short period 7 248 Aaron Merz, OG No impact

Moody was quite good. Butch Byrd was also excellent. He was also an ALL STAR CB so we could barely spare to use him as a returner. Lets not forget Steve Tasker, sure hands and he always got some yards after the catch.

Whitner does not belong on this list. He was a decent player, as was Spiller, Just looking at first round: Mike Dennis, Al Cowlings, Tom Rudd, Tom Cousineau, Booker Moore, Phil Dokes, Perry Tuttle, JP Losman, Aaron Maybin, and EJ Manual. Some of these guys never played a down, and a few played so poorly you wished they hadn't.

Given a shorten season is likely, this year it makes sense to not have an international game. But I do understand your comments.

Agree. We could be going back to the days of Bills and Phins dominating the division, assuming Allen improves and Miami finds a QB, and especially if Bellichek retires soon.

Cancelling International games makes great sense at this time. I have a hard time seeing camp starting on time, but i have confidence that we will beat this virus. The whole league could be playing a modified schedule this season as a result.

Interesting and insightful. Thanks. I wondered why they didn’t keep.

I am not missing the fact that teams use two running backs. My point is whether you pick one at 54 or wait another round.

Games are won and lost on the field. Top talent is just one part of it. Preparation and execution are even more important. Let’s win the division and get home field playoff games before we jump to conclusions.

I picked Taylor. If Singletary misses any games this will be a great move. If he doesn’t miss games then we have a nice 1-2 punch for windy winter ground and pound in New Era. This combo will open things up for Diggs and Co.

Pick #54 is very important to the offseason. I think you need to get a player that can be a solid starter at some point - that would mean Edge/OLB, or OT, or CB would be in play. Drafting a RB or a WR is basically drafting a rotational player for now. We could really use another RB to compliment Singletary or another WR threat to eventually challenge for the #2. I’m glad Beane is handling this and not me.

In two seasons Beliicheck will be gone, and you will get your wish.

Right On! Best defense in the AFL in the mid 60's. Harry Jacobs at MLB, John Tracey OLB, with Stratton at OLB Butch Byrd and Booker Edgerson were the corners George Saimes - was an all AFL Safety. We also had Tommy Janik and Haygood Clarke back there. Cookie could have probably started at LB too if we needed it.

He made some errors but he did more things right, the important things. He outlived many of his contemporaries. Chris Berman did his HOF speech and was humbled and honored. That says enough about him all by itself.

All we needed to do win the first SB was to hand the ball the Thurman. They played a 3-2 defense with extra DB's in a zone to take away deep balls and the crossing routes. We ran all over them but it was just too late … our offensive coaches did not call a good game at all. It was easy to run out of the K-gun and we could have forced the Giants go back to their 3-4 which would of then opened up the passing lanes. We gave up 20 points. Our offense was never on the field and our defense was tired and worn. That was a contributor to all the missed tackles in the 3rd and 4th quarter. Blaming Jeff Wright is revisionist history and incorrect. We played 90% of the game exactly they way they wanted us to. We had the better team but Parcells and Bellichek completely outcoached our staff. That is why we lost.

The trading or cutting of Murphy seems to be a big topic. A healthy Murphy will be a real asset this year. I do not think they planned on losing Lorenzo, Shaq, Phillips and Murphy. I think Murphy stays.

Great post ^ It says something about drafting and developing WRs, which can be tricky. Teams are willing to trade for a proven #1WR, even with the upcoming WR rich draft.

The Bills as an organization are thriving. I never said the offense was, I am talking big picture. Can you think big picture? Stop dissecting my posts and making assumptions when I never said anything about the offense. I am talking about entire organization. The perception about Buffalo has changed for a lot of free agents too. Can you grasp this concept? So, The organizing is thriving under Beane/McD. I think it would be an error to replace them if Allen does not pan out. That is my answer to the OP. Finally, I did not say finding a QB would be easy, but “find another QB” is the reality show Allen nit be the answer. I don’t think Beane/McD are interested in past foibles by past regimes and I trust they would be better than most any of the execs we have had if they had to draft another qb.