BigDingus

Are we? I'd say you definitely grab one if he's legit the best player available. Better to hedge your bets & commit to finding that franchise QB than to just pass on possible great talents just because you hope your current one pans out. But I doubt it'll ever happen, just saying it wouldn't be awful.

So great coach only equals "beat OSU" disregard entire rest of career accolades? How do you beat Ohio State when you're busy coaching the 49ers to 3 straight NFC Championships? You know, the same team that sucked balls for 8 straight years before he got there, and have been abysmal since he left? I mean, I guess he could've played Ohio State when he was coaching at Michigan, but he was too busy leading Stanford...yes, friggin Stanford, to their best years in decades, making them relevant on a National level for the first time in ages. And he's still doing better at Michigan than their last however many coaches, so again, I guess I don't get the "everything means nothing if you don't beat OSU" mindset. If he came here & lead the Bills to 3 straight 11 to 13 win seasons, 3 straight AFC Championship games and 1 Super Bowl, yet we lost to the Patriots in the regular season each year, you'd say that we should fire him & go after someone else? You must REALLY HATE McDermott then...he's coming up way short of even those metrics, and here he is, still our HC. Honestly, I don't believe a single Bills fan on the planet would decline those types of seasons given what we've dealt with the past 20 years. If you say you'd rather have more of the endless mediocrity, you're full of s***

I'd much rather have Jim Harbaugh than McDermott... You'd be crazy if you wouldn't. Regardless of his "big game" W/L record, he at least puts his team in position to play in big & meaningful games, unlike anything any of our coaches have done for over 2 decades. Yes, those 49er's were great before him, and great after him. Alex Smith was a having a hell of a career before he got there. Going to the Super Bowl must suck...and losing by only 31-34 is an embarrassment! Let's go over how awful he was everywhere else too! *****************************DON'T READ FURTHER UNLESS YOU WANT TO READ ABOUT HARBAUGH'S SUCCESS*********************************** -Stanford: Prior to Harbaugh, the last 2 coaches went 10-23 (5-19 in conference) & 6-17 (5-12 in conference). They finished 9th, 8th, 8th, 4th (tied), and 10th in Pac-10 the 5 seasons before he arrived. After he arrived, they finished 7th, 6th, 2nd (tied) and 2nd including a W/L record of 29-21 overall (21-15 in conference), and an Orange Bowl win his final 12-1 season. Stanford finished ranked 4th overall in the AP & BCS rankings. (Summary: doubled yearly win total from 3.2 to 7.25, a 125% increase; Major Bowl win, Stanford's highest ranking ever to that point, and best 12 win season in school history) -49ers: Prior to Harbaugh, the 49ers hadn't made the playoffs in 8 straight years, with a combined record of 46-82, averaging 5.75 wins a year. They finished with a losing record in 7 of 8 seasons, with their best record being 8-8 in 2009. Alex Smith was long labeled a bust, but we'll get back to that. Then in 2011, the 49ers go 13-3 in Harbaugh's first season as the 49ers' HC...hell, his first season as an NFL head coach. Not only does he end their 8 year playoff drought, they make it all the way to the NFC Championship game, only losing by 17-20 in OT against eventual Super Bowl winners the NY Giants. The next year, they once again finish 1st in their division, only this time they become Conference Champs, make the SB, and eventually lose by a FG. In 2013, they go 12-4, make the NFC Championship game again, but lose to eventual SB Champs Seahawks. The following year they go 8-8, with a ton of drama surrounding the GM hating him, the owner sided with GM Baalke & fired Harbaugh. A couple years later, the 49ers fired Baalke & his pick for HC Chip Kelly. Post Harbaugh, the 49ers finished dead last in their division every single year, averaging 4.3 wins a season, going through 3 coaches. (Summary: Record goes from 46-82 pre-Harbaugh, no winning seasons, to 44-19-1 with Harbaugh, to 15-43 post-Harbaugh. Went from averaging 11 wins a year with him, to 3.75 without. Went to 3 straight NFC Championship games & 1 Super Bowl with him, had 0 wining seasons & no playoffs in 12 years before & after him) -Alex Smith: Prior to Harbaugh, Smith had already been labeled a bust. After an abysmal rookie season where Smith went 2-5 as a starter, throwing 1 TD to 11 INT's, and being repeatedly benched. The following year, Smith showed some improvement, but was still mediocre at best, throwing 16 TD's & 16 INT's, 58% completions & 7-9 record. In 2007, Smith played poorly again, doing even worse in some areas, posting a 2-5 record. Out of all QB's that year, only Kellen Clemens had a lower Passer Rating than Smith, who only completed 48% of his passes. Though he got hurt & missed 3 games, he eventually got benched, then put on IR near the end of the year. In 2008, Smith was considered such a bust, he had to enter training camp in a 3-way QB competition between backup Shaun Hill & J.T. O'Sullivan...eventually LOSING to O'Sullivan! Smith was later on told to undergo surgery again, placed on IR, and was expected to be released (and likely out of the league) before the 2009 season. Smith agrees to take a paycut from $25 million the next to years to $8 million over 2 years, new HC wants him to stay on, Smith loses QB competition again, this time to Shaun Hill. Smith replaced Hill 7 games in, went 5-5...his best mediocre play in his career. In 2010, Smith was named the starter, then promptly bombed. Each game he came out to boos, got hurt after going 0-5, then came back & still sucked, getting his HC fired in the process. ***BUT THEN*** Harbaugh gets hired, resigns Smith, and Smith has his best season ever BY FAR, then carrying that over the next year until he got hurt & replaced with Kap. Still, Smith went 19-5-1 under Harbaugh after only winning 19 of 50 career starts in the 6 years prior. Smith goes on to the Chiefs, and eventually becomes known as one of the most consistent, higher level game managers in the league. (Summary: Smith was a bust & nearly cut, lost 2 QB competitions, then became an upper-tier QB & playoff/Pro-Bowl Caliber starter after Harbaugh) -Michigan: Pre-Harbaugh, they went 46-42 in 7 seasons, including regressing in 3 straight seasons. They were 5-7 in 2014, then in Harbaugh's first year jumped to 10-3. With Harbaugh as HC, they have gone 38-13, and have finished the season ranked in the top 12 two out of three times, with this year certainly to be a third time even with today's loss. Yes, not beating Ohio State is a big deal, but his team is significantly improved this year, and are better off with him than without. (Summary: 0.745 win % with Harbaugh, 0.522 win % the 7 years prior to Harbaugh). *************************************************************************************************************************************** Point being, he's SIGNIFICANTLY improved every team he's coached, and has had tremendous success. Most impressively, he was always able to do it FAST, and get the best out of people immediately. Compare that to other coaches who can have years & years and never get anywhere, or all the people who claim teams need to slow improvement over several years before any expectations to win. Harbaugh comes in & turns those teams into winners, and when he leaves, there's a sharp & dramatic dropoff. If it's so easy to do, why have no Bills coaches been able to do the same thing in 20+ years? Why do other teams give coaches like Jason Garret 5-10 years and never get anywhere if anyone can do it? They can't, and Harbaugh knows how coach & get people to buy in. He's also good at maximizing people's talents & getting production out of people others are ready to dismiss. If anyone could get the no-name talent & role player roster we've assembled to punch above their weight class, there's no doubt Jim Harbaugh would be the one to do it. And I'm not even campaigning for him to be our HC, nor do I want McDermott fired, I just think this thread & the knee jerk "I told ya so" while ignoring his entire body of work is completely moronic and wreaks of ignorance.

All-22, PFF & many other analytics actually showed Allen was actually holding back our already weak WR corps. Even though they lack talent, Allen would've needed to get up to their level first before he could be held back by them. We've seen the offense look better under anyone not named Peterman than it did with Allen. Aside from turnovers, even our weak skill position groups were far more effective without Allen on the field. Even our O-line (a unit I despised & ranted on MANY times before this season began) weren't the cause of most of his sacks or hits, as that was detailed game after game. Allen was failing at pre-snap reads, failing to recognize blitzes, and failing to recognize coverage schemes. Allen leads the league in time to throw the ball, and hangs on far too long which results in getting sacked - https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw Even with all that time, he still only has a 54.0 completion percentage, something that he's carried over from JUCO & College to the NFL (ranked dead last out of all qualified QB's) -https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#completion-percentage Even though he only averages just under 6 yards per attempt, he still can't get the ball to WR's. I'm not saying he'll never be good, but statistically he's been awful. And if it weren't for the fluke Vikings game, it'd be an abysmal rookie season. We had an awful passing game with TT the past several years, often ranked 31st or 32nd in the league. Now imagine our dead last ranked passing offense from 2017, and subtract 25% more production. THAT is where we're at now when Allen plays. It wouldn't be a big deal if we were competitive in games, or if he showed he was improving week to week. It wouldn't matter as much if he turned the ball over had he also been chunking up TD after TD. It would be encouraging, even in losses, to see Allen hang 300 yards on an opponent once in a blue moon (as opposed to less than 100 yards in back to back games). These aren't traditionally slow-start rookie QB numbers, and this isn't 1980 either. The game is tailor made for QB's and the passing game, and having thrown for only 45 yards or 69 yards going into the 4th quarter shows you're nowhere close to being an even semi-competent starter yet. I'm sorry, not trying to be mean, I seriously want him to be a badass, but he's been exactly what he's always been, and he's proved every pre-draft knock on him correct thus far. I hope that'll change, I really do.

Jalen Ramsey's the kind of guy that volunteers for the most demanding part of a group project to impress everyone, then keep reassuring you everything's good & on track. Then right before it's due, not a damn person can reach the guy, only to find he's posting stupid meme's & other dumb s*** on Facebook all night...FROM HIS PHONE. Great team player until the facade comes crashing down.

Man, looking at their comments for the other QB's they consider failures and their rationale behind them, it makes me laugh to think they'd put Allen up at #1 with what he's done. Alex Van Pelt: "In eight starts, Van Pelt threw for 2,056 yards, 12 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He was given only half a season and was never able to take command of the position." Well that's what happens when you're only given 8 starts...If Allen only gets 8 starts, he'll likely finish with worse numbers than that. Holcomb: "His play wasn't spectacular, but he was average. He completed 67.4 percent of his passes to go along with 1,509 yards, 10 touchdowns and eight interceptions." So, better than Allen? EJ Manuel: "Manuel posted a 6-11 record and compiled 3,502 yards, 19 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. His erratic throws and 58.2 completion percentage were enough for the Bills to decline his option in 2016." So, hopefully the Bills appreciate Allen's 2 TD's to 5 INT's, erratic throws and 54.0 completion percentage more than EJ's? JP Losman: "Although he provided youth at the quarterback position for the Bills, he turned the ball over way too much and never adjusted to life as an NFL quarterback." I guess we've decided Allen has adjusted to life as an NFL QB already? Otherwise, the rest applies to him as well. Kyle Orton: "Kyle Orton tossed 18 touchdowns, 10 interceptions and had 3,018 yards. He may not have had the greatest of stats as a Bills quarterback..." Wait, if those stats "aren't great," by your standards, how does anything we've seen from Allen look even semi-decent? And if we just go off their stats alone, nearly all of them have better numbers (both per game, and overall) yet got ranked lower? Some of these guys didn't even get a full season, others got yanked back & forth any time they did something wrong, and many were the "great arm" or "raw talent" type guys like Allen, but they get the benefit of the doubt for long. Even if Allen sucks these next few games, we gotta keep him.

Quick Edit: Just trying to gauge what people believe our W/L record will be for the next 6 games only (poll added) So to start the year off we had the most difficult strength of schedule, but now with only 6 games remaining we have the easiest one. We've got: Home vs the Jaguars (3-7) Away vs the Dolphins (5-5) Home vs the Jets (3-7) Home vs the Lions (4-7) Away vs the Patriots (7-3) Home vs the Dolphins (5-5) So 4 home games, and only 1 game against a team with a winning record. Would've been nice to start the season this way to build some momentum, or to avoid all these late home games where fans don't want to sit out in the cold to watch a team that's not competing for anything... Anyway, how do you guys see us closing out the season? Obviously their most important goal is to develop Josh Allen into a capable starter at the very least, so getting him reps will be the priority. I know some people don't want us to win any more games, but what do you actually predict the Bills' record will be through just these 6 games? I see them going 2-4, possibly 3-3. It would be very Bills-like to win a couple more games when it doesn't matter, and none of these teams are very good outside the Pats. Then again, Allen can't play like he was before getting injured, as that offense was miserable to watch. Here's hoping whatever happens it'll at least be entertaining.

You do realize some fans are louder than others, some opposing fans are more wild than others, more people doesn't always = louder stadium, and that your view from watching on TV doesn't always reflect volume at the stadium right? I used to go to games at Jones AT&T Stadium in Lubbock to watch Texas Tech before they added the visitor side suites & upper bowl seats. Capacity was 40,000 tops, yet the place was louder than most 70,000 capacity places hosting NFL games I had been to. Also, attendance is doing great this year, so don't know where you got that idea...just check out any of the actual sites that compile all that data - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/attendance.htm or http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance Hell, the last Cardinals game was against the Raiders, and they had 62,435 people check into that game (capacity is 65,000). Playing in an indoor stadium makes a TON of difference as you should know. I was recently at the Houston vs Bills game, and though the stadium wasn't packed by any means, it was WAAAAY louder than any Bills game I've attended in Buffalo. The acoustics of those places are awesome, and really give the home team an advantage. I can only imagine how loud & crazy it would sound if the Bills played indoors, as our fans are certainly ready to scream their heads off.

A lot of people are upset not because of hindsight, it's more of "I told you so" people who long knew Mahomes was a great player. And outside of simple hindsight, people have STILL claimed that if they were given the chance this very moment to take Mahomes or Allen, they'd take Allen. If that doesn't straight up insult your intelligence, I don't know what does.

Are you kidding? Defense has been a HUGE this game. 21 points off turnovers from the Chiefs, 14 points from the Rams. Those sack - fumbles have been extremely important. Edit: And now pressure & a hit on Mahomes (again) results in an INT.

- Almost all TBD posters prior to the season

Every time I watch a Chiefs game, I remember the poll on this board a month or so ago where about 90% of the board voted they'd rather have Josh Allen than Mahomes... Mahomes, who's over 400 yards passing and has 6 TD's... Allen only threw for 300 yards twice, once a season. And 6 TD's? Allen's high was 4 TD's against Utah State & UNLV in 2016, and once more in 2017 against New Mexico. Not saying Allen can't become good, but Mahomes is fantastic. Allen may have a "generational" arm, but Patrick Mahomes is a "generational" QB. Oh...and he's got a great arm too. Desperately hope Allen at least develops into a serviceable starter. I don't even care if he doesn't become a true franchise QB at this point. If he just turns into an Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill type. I'd feel relieved if we could at least get that much.

The only time you would see LAR would be in reference to the Rams, not Chargers. So maybe you meant to say LAC instead or LAR?

Lol please no... I think it's funny though how the Bills will go back to any era, try any combination, go for any throwbacks, other than throwbacks for the one era where we had our most success.

And Joe Webb's almost game-losing INT? Joe Webb's "miracle" pass was nice, but it only put us in better position, rather than directly putting points on the board like Peterman's TD pass! Ultimately it was LeSean McCoy who ran the last 30 yards in 2 plays for the TD that won the game. But you know what, with 1 minute left in the 4th quarter, Webb did throw an INT at our own 25 yard line to setup Adam Vinatieri for a game winning FG. The real miracle was Vinatieri missing! I wouldn't call Peterman getting the W a "bogus stat' after playing for 3 quarters & being the best QB on the field in awful conditions, not turning the ball over, and not costing us the game. Webb nearly pulled a Peterman with his INT, but had Satan's luck on his side when the most clutch kicker in NFL history missed a FG to bail him out.

Goff & Wentz are far more than "solid," imo. Garopollo & Watson have shown they can be very good, even having great games at times, but haven't been consistent. Mayfield has shown tons of promise, and looks good for a rookie. Even losing games, I'd prefer our QB to look like that over what he actually does. Mayfield has only thrown more INT's than TD's 1 time in 8 games, has won 3 more games than the Browns did all of last season, and has thrown for nearly 2,000 yards, 13 TD's, to 7 INT's, completing 61% of his passes, and has an 87.5 passer rating. That's pretty damn good for a rookie, and GODLY for a rookie on the Browns.

It was 7-0 in the 3rd when he went down. And yeah, he got credit for it -https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PeteNa00.htm

It's also within Oliver's right to whine about it and take exception to it, even if it's petty. Now if he actually hurt someone or physically harmed his coach, that's a different story. But yelling at him & throwing a fit isn't a crime.

I dunno, his only win as a starter came in the blizzard game, and he was definitely the best QB on the field that day.

Well, he's not Kevin Kolb since he actually got on the field for us. But who knows if concussions have finally taken their toll. Hope he's ok.

Man, the top 12 players all projected to be on the defensive side of the ball. It's like Sean McDermott's wettest dream! Though we desperately need help on offense at nearly every position, I'd be SHOCKED if McDermott could pass up on all the defensive talent that'll be staring him in the face. If we could somehow grab Nick Bosa I'd be thrilled. On another note, I'm not sure I believe the hype around Ed Oliver. He's good, but there are plenty of signs he's not nearly as great as some would have you believe. Comparisons to Aaron Donald, Ndamukong Suh & John Randle are greatly exaggerated IMO, and I don't think he'll be quite the star people are expecting.

Not always ground beef! There are shrimp tacos, chicken tacos, fish tacos, barbacoa tacos, pork tacos, brisket tacos, and steak tacos...oh wait, steak tacos? Dammit, he probably would use ketchup on steak tacos!!! To hell with him!

But you have to look at their years in the league as well. *Warrick Dunn - 2005 was his 9th season, 2006 was his 10th season. Played 2 more years after that & had a large drop-off (1,140 yards in 2006 to 720 yards in 2007 & 786 in 2008) *Franco Harris - 1983 was his 12th season, prior to that he hadn't had a 1,000 yard year since 1979. And in '83 he BARELY hit the mark, with 1,007 yards on a 3.6 YPC average....the lowest of his career until the his next (and final) season. Played 1 more year & had a MASSIVE drop-off (rushing for 170 yards). *Ricky Watters - 1999 was his 9th season, and 2000 was his 10th season. Played 1 more year after that & again, HUGE drop-off (rushing for 318 yards). *Fred Taylor - 2006 was his 9th season, and 2007 was his 10th season. Played 3 more years with big drop-off (556 yards, 269 yards, and 155 yards). *Curtis Martin - 2003 was his 9th season, and 2004 was his 10th season. Played 1 more year (though he didn't retire until a year later), with huge drop-off (1,697 yards in 2004 to 735 yards in 2005). *Tiki Barber - 2005 was his 9th season, and 2006 was his 10th season. Retired after his 10th season after following his 2 best career years having rushed for 1,860 yards & 1662 yards respectively. *John Riggins - In 1980, Riggins didn't play, but in 1979 was in his 9th season, 1983 his 12th season, and 1984 his 13th season. In 1981 & 1982 he ran for only 714 & 553 yards, but had a resurgence in the following 2 years with 1,347 & 1239 rushing yards, but only averaging 3.6 & 3.8 YPC. Played 1 more year after that with a large drop-off again (677 yards). *Emmitt Smith - 1999-2001 was in his 10th, 11th and 12th seasons. Emmitt didn't have a massive drop-off until 2003 (his first of 2 years with the Cardinals), as injuries took their toll as they often do with these RB's. But he rebounded in 2004 for his final season to post a solid 937 yards in his 15th season, though it was on 3.5 YPC. *Walter Payton - 1984-1986 was his 10th season, 11th & 12th seasons (same as Emmitt's). Played 1 more year & had a massive drop-off (went from 1,333 yards in '86 to 533 yards in '87). Also averaged went from averaging 4.2 YPC to 3.7 in his final year. So in summary, most of these RB's hit their final high notes in their 9th and 10th seasons, with huge drop-offs in production after that. Some like Ricky Watters, Fred Taylor, Curtis Martin, and even Emmitt Smith suffered injuries after those seasons, ending their great run (with Emmitt however recovering & putting in 1 final strong season). Others like Riggins & Harris became volume rushers, simply eclipsing 1,000 yards due to the sheer amount of carries. Example: prior to Riggins 1983 & 1984 seasons when he rushed for 1,347 yards & 1,239 yards, he carried the ball 195 times in 1981 and 177 times in 1982. But in 1983 & 1984, he carried the ball 375 times & 327 times. That's a HUGE workload increase. Comparatively, Shady has only carried the ball 300 times twice in his career, in back to back years with Eagles in 2013 & 2014. Since being with the Bills, he's averaged 241 carries over 3 seasons, with only 111 carries so far this year. Shady's 8th season was 2016, rushing for 1,267 yards (5.4 YPC), and 9th season was 2017, where he rushed for 1,138 yards (4.0 YPC). Through 9 games he has 380 yards on 3.4 YPC in 2018, and is looking to hit a similar career path as the other RBs you listed. Year 10 is usually the next best season, but with our offense being what it is, it's understandable his numbers are so poor. He very well could have one last hoorah & rebound in 2019 if our O-line, QB and WR corps significantly improve, but that'll also be his 11th season, about the time injuries start really kicking in. And we know Shady isn't a bruising style back who will consistently hit 3-4 yards pounding the ball up the middle every play, so he won't pull a Riggins & just be fed 300+ carries. He could still be a productive back on controlled reps as one piece of a RB tandem, but next year will probably be his last shot at hitting 1,000 yards & being the featured back.

It's even more incredible he's doing all of that during THIS season. Many players would've checked out mentally by now, as putting in that much energy & effort down after down in what you know will be a losing effort would grow tiresome really fast. But Hughes is still committed to the team & the franchise, and it shows a lot of character with what he's doing. He could've pulled a Mario Williams with Rex Ryan, and I wouldn't have blamed him, but he hasn't. Hats off to him!

Were the Browns a playoff team with Tyrod? No, we wouldn't be a playoff team with Tyrod. Our offense would still look awful, just without the turnovers. Imagine it this way - 3 out of every 4 INT's this year would just be incompletions. And 9 out of 10 attempted deep passes would be checkdowns to the RB. We'd still be the 32nd ranked passing offense, we'd have 10+ game streaks of not scoring a TD in the first half, we'd lead the league in 3 & outs again, and we'd still have a crappy O-line & WR's. Opposing defenses would still put up monster sack numbers, possibly even more so, only this time we'd watch Tyrod scramble backwards & lose extra yards in the process (except for the 1 time each game he keeps the play alive and the announcers talk about his great athleticism).