Maybin holdout

[nuklz2594]

The guy is 20, does not have a lot of experience, and is holding for top dollar? How much does he will possibly help us this year? I understand he wants to be paid what he feels he is worth, but doesn't common sense kick in at some point? He is and never will be Bruce Smith. Hell, the lbs are bigger than him. Maybe he and Poz or Mitchell need to go at it mano et mano. He is not much bigger than Nick Harris.

OK, the Patron is hitting me, but are you serious?

[BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land]

These guys get 1 shot at big money, if they are lucky. I don't blame them holding out for the best cash.

[Wagon Circler]

It's a kid just following his agent's advice. The agent tells him to be patient...

[H2o]

The guy is 20, does not have a lot of experience, and is holding for top dollar? How much does he will possibly help us this year? I understand he wants to be paid what he feels he is worth, but doesn't common sense kick in at some point? He is and never will be Bruce Smith. Hell, the lbs are bigger than him. Maybe he and Poz or Mitchell need to go at it mano et mano. He is not much bigger than Nick Harris.

OK, the Patron is hitting me, but are you serious?

Are we really having this arguement again. Maybin outweighs Schobel by 10-15lbs. Michael Strahan, the guy who holds the single season sack record, played most of his career at 255lbs. Maybin's strength fighting off blocks will be the question.

[Corp000085]

It's not the agent or Maybin himself. It's the system. If the system allowed any one of us posters to hold out for top dollar from a team or organization that we had no previous affiliation with, you'd be lying and borderline insane if you said you'd sign for lower "just to play". This current system allows for players to hold teams ransom and for agents to take advantage of the said 20 year olds. With a new scaled system, agents will be put in check, players will have no intensive to hold out as rookies, and teams will improve from maximizing the value of their draft pick. However, none of this will happen under the current CBA. The most important aspect of a rookie salary scale is that it increases the value of veterans looking for their 2nd contract. There's a hell of a lot more veterans in the NFLPA than rookies, so they should be able to get this passed next year. Unfortunately, its everything else that will cause the mother of all pro sports lockout/strike.

 

For us NHL fans, the 2004 lockout is still fresh, however, that's just the tip of the iceberg compared to this next one.

[iinii]

The guy is 20, does not have a lot of experience, and is holding for top dollar? How much does he will possibly help us this year? I understand he wants to be paid what he feels he is worth, but doesn't common sense kick in at some point? He is and never will be Bruce Smith. Hell, the lbs are bigger than him. Maybe he and Poz or Mitchell need to go at it mano et mano. He is not much bigger than Nick Harris.

OK, the Patron is hitting me, but are you serious?

Read "Lords or the Realm." Its about the history of Baseball and labor. All it takes is one Al Davis/Haywood-Bey and it is off to the races. I would want all the money i could make given the circumstances as they are, and teams have little leverage when it comes to the draft picks. It is insane when rookies make more than proven vets. Insane! There needs to be a realistic system in place that makes these guys earn their dime.

[Paup 1995MVP]

It's not the agent or Maybin himself. It's the system. If the system allowed any one of us posters to hold out for top dollar from a team or organization that we had no previous affiliation with, you'd be lying and borderline insane if you said you'd sign for lower "just to play". This current system allows for players to hold teams ransom and for agents to take advantage of the said 20 year olds. With a new scaled system, agents will be put in check, players will have no intensive to hold out as rookies, and teams will improve from maximizing the value of their draft pick. However, none of this will happen under the current CBA. The most important aspect of a rookie salary scale is that it increases the value of veterans looking for their 2nd contract. There's a hell of a lot more veterans in the NFLPA than rookies, so they should be able to get this passed next year. Unfortunately, its everything else that will cause the mother of all pro sports lockout/strike.

 

For us NHL fans, the 2004 lockout is still fresh, however, that's just the tip of the iceberg compared to this next one.

If players and agents can hold teams hostage, than why have 28 out of 32 first round picks already signed with there respective teams? And if and when Maybin and the Bills come to an agreement, why couldn't this have been hammered out 3-4 weeks ago? I firmly believe that the terms agreed to will be a little better than Moreno's, but nothing out of wack with the other draft picks. Maybin's holdout has been a mystery from the start. I don't think the Bills would lowball him. But I don't think the Bills are drowning in their tears that he is not in camp. I think they view him as a project for the future.

[Magox]

Maybin hasn't signed?

[WVUFootball29]

Maybin hasn't signed?

 

What? Michael Jackson died? When did this happen and why wasn't it on the news?

[Kipers Hair]

...To hold out as long as Maybin? I know there is no correlation to performance - but was the last 1st rounder that held out for the Bills worth the wait?

[Booster4324]

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=93532

 

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=93518

 

or even

 

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=93466

[SBdreamer]

The parameters of Maybin's contract have been established for at least the last few weeks.

The money that counts with the first round contracts is the guaranteed money and the number that counts is the % increase over the 2008 contracts:

The #14-#32 first round picks this year signed for 5-10% increases in guaranteed money over the 2008 contracts

Orakpo at #13 signed for a 12% increase in guaranteed money over the 2008 #13 contract

Moreno at #12 signed for a 13% increase in guaranteed money over the 2008 #12 contract

Raji at #9 signed for an 18% increase in guaranteed money over the 2008 #9 contract

Heywood-Bey at #7 signed for a 20% increase in guaranteed money over the 2008 #7 contract

(If you wonder how how little the first number counts, compare the contracts for the #7 picks -

2008 Sedrick Ellis 5 years, $49 million $19.5M guaranteed

2009 Darrius Heyward-Bey 5 years, $38.25 million $23.5M guaranteed).

All the players picked after Maybin are signed and his contract parameters are set:

(#14-#32) 5-10% increase in guaranteed money over 2008 contracts

(#13) 12% increase in guaranteed money

(#12) 13% increase in guaranteed money

(#11) unsigned - Aaron Maybin

(#10) unsigned - Michael Crabtree

(#9) 18% increase in guaranteed money

(#8) Monroe signed today - no terms disclosed yet

(#7) 20% increase in guaranteed money

Whatever we think of the ridiculous money that unproven first round draft picks receive, the parameters for the #11 pick contract are set: a 14-15% increase in guaranteed money over last year's #11.

A 14% increase would be about $14.25M guaranteed. A 15% increase would be about $14.5M guaranteed. Any less than $14.25 - $14.5M would be a lowball offer. It didn't happen last year and I seriously doubt that it is happening this year. McKelvin was signed and in camp by July 26.

Maybin is a young player. He needs to be in camp if he is going to help the Bills this year. From all accounts, he is good guy. The bottom line is that the only reason for him not to have been signed and in camp is that he has been waiting

to see if the #10 pick could blow up the draft by demanding more money than the #7 pick. It's not going to happen and it shouldn't happen.

Maybin should get the 14-15% increase in guaranteed money that his draft slot is set to receive. If he and his agent are holding out for more, that's not "just business". Moreno, Orakpo and the #12 - #32 picks did not wait for Maybin or Crabtree to sign. Once the contract parameters were set, they signed (multi-million dollar) contracts based on where they were picked and joined their teams.

Crabtree may not sign until September, if he signs at all. Whether he holds out for a month or a year, it doesn't control Maybin. He needs to sign and join the team. Maybin has a reputation as a hard working guy who loves to play football. I

hope that we get to see that guy on the field soon.

[sharper802]

Two more draft picks signed both drafted before Maybin. The FO is a disgrace....

[Major Mud]

Two more draft picks signed both drafted before Maybin. The FO is a disgrace....

your right its all the FO's fault.....wow, is it your money?...your team?.....NO?...then chill he will be signed.

[Peter]

Whatever the reasons for the holdout, he has a lot of catching up to do. Among the top picks in the draft, he certainly was one of the guys that really would have benefited from being in camp the entire time.

 

Oh well. What is done is done. I just hope the kid can contribute and he is worth picking him where we did.

[/dev/null]

your right its all the FO's fault.....wow, is it your money?...your team?.....NO?...then chill he will be signed.

 

He should run for Congress

 

It's alot easier spending other people's money

[seadog]

No, Maybin is a baby. He will not play much this year. No conditioning, no reps = wasted season, this guy was already a questionable pick now he's off to a bad start with his teamates and fans. Laurenites the linebacker with Rams is looking pretty good in the game against the Jets.

[Major Mud]

He should run for Congress

 

It's alot easier spending other people's money

Hey dev, is Mt Trashmore still there?

[Saudi Arabia Rob]

The parameters of Maybin's contract have been established for at least the last few weeks.

The money that counts with the first round contracts is the guaranteed money and the number that counts is the % increase over the 2008 contracts:

The #14-#32 first round picks this year signed for 5-10% increases in guaranteed money over the 2008 contracts

Orakpo at #13 signed for a 12% increase in guaranteed money over the 2008 #13 contract

Moreno at #12 signed for a 13% increase in guaranteed money over the 2008 #12 contract

Raji at #9 signed for an 18% increase in guaranteed money over the 2008 #9 contract

Heywood-Bey at #7 signed for a 20% increase in guaranteed money over the 2008 #7 contract

(If you wonder how how little the first number counts, compare the contracts for the #7 picks -

2008 Sedrick Ellis 5 years, $49 million $19.5M guaranteed

2009 Darrius Heyward-Bey 5 years, $38.25 million $23.5M guaranteed).

All the players picked after Maybin are signed and his contract parameters are set:

(#14-#32) 5-10% increase in guaranteed money over 2008 contracts

(#13) 12% increase in guaranteed money

(#12) 13% increase in guaranteed money

(#11) unsigned - Aaron Maybin

(#10) unsigned - Michael Crabtree

(#9) 18% increase in guaranteed money

(#8) Monroe signed today - no terms disclosed yet

(#7) 20% increase in guaranteed money

Whatever we think of the ridiculous money that unproven first round draft picks receive, the parameters for the #11 pick contract are set: a 14-15% increase in guaranteed money over last year's #11.

A 14% increase would be about $14.25M guaranteed. A 15% increase would be about $14.5M guaranteed. Any less than $14.25 - $14.5M would be a lowball offer. It didn't happen last year and I seriously doubt that it is happening this year. McKelvin was signed and in camp by July 26.

Maybin is a young player. He needs to be in camp if he is going to help the Bills this year. From all accounts, he is good guy. The bottom line is that the only reason for him not to have been signed and in camp is that he has been waiting

to see if the #10 pick could blow up the draft by demanding more money than the #7 pick. It's not going to happen and it shouldn't happen.

Maybin should get the 14-15% increase in guaranteed money that his draft slot is set to receive. If he and his agent are holding out for more, that's not "just business". Moreno, Orakpo and the #12 - #32 picks did not wait for Maybin or Crabtree to sign. Once the contract parameters were set, they signed (multi-million dollar) contracts based on where they were picked and joined their teams.

Crabtree may not sign until September, if he signs at all. Whether he holds out for a month or a year, it doesn't control Maybin. He needs to sign and join the team. Maybin has a reputation as a hard working guy who loves to play football. I

hope that we get to see that guy on the field soon.

 

Geez, what do you for relaxation! Advanced Calculus?

[BuffaloRebound]

Maybin's hold-out is ridiculous. At least Crabtree dominated the college level for 2 years and was regarded by many people as a top 5 pick. Maybin should have been happy to get a little more than Orakpo. If the NFL and the Union can't agree on some kind of pre-determined salary for draft picks, just get rid of the 1st round of the draft and let each team sign one college player... kind of like a free agency 1st round, then start the draft with the 2nd round.

[sharper802]

He should run for Congress

 

It's alot easier spending other people's money

 

If you were a fan of any other team you would be laughing your ass off at our FO. Remove the blinders. Orakpo (#13)was signed July 30th and Moreno Aug7th(#12). With the exception of Cincinnati name another organization that would bring back a coach with three consecutive losing years. That being said I don't even think Cincinnati would trade a Pro-Bowl LT and go into a season with 5 new positions on the OL.

 

Here's to 3-13!!!

[John from Riverside]

- There are a lot of things besides Maybin that are going to determine our final season record

 

- IF we can get Maybin in here by Mondays practice he will have 3 preseason games to get ready

 

- Pass rushing specialist....not starter.......

 

 

PS.....I am FRUSTRATED to........I dont understand what the hold up is.

[plenzmd1]

Hey dev, is Mt Trashmore still there?

 

Why yes it is...and it is a full borne park now. Mother in law lives in Va Beach, kiddies went often to the playground there.

 

BTW, no way Maybin signs till Crabtree, unless Crabtree goes past last pre season game

[billsrcursed]

If you were a fan of any other team you would be laughing your ass off at our FO. Remove the blinders. Orakpo (#13)was signed July 30th and Moreno Aug7th(#12). With the exception of Cincinnati name another organization that would bring back a coach with three consecutive losing years. That being said I don't even think Cincinnati would trade a Pro-Bowl LT and go into a season with 5 new positions on the OL.

 

Here's to 3-13!!!

 

Here's to your therapy!

[Major Mud]

Why yes it is...and it is a full borne park now. Mother in law lives in Va Beach, kiddies went often to the playground there.

 

BTW, no way Maybin signs till Crabtree, unless Crabtree goes past last pre season game

Ahh i use to love living in VA beach. When i was a kid i spent many a day there. A former dump, now a place of beauty, hopefully we can say the same about Buffalo in a few years.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

If you were a fan of any other team you would be laughing your ass off at our FO. Remove the blinders. Orakpo (#13)was signed July 30th and Moreno Aug7th(#12). With the exception of Cincinnati name another organization that would bring back a coach with three consecutive losing years. That being said I don't even think Cincinnati would trade a Pro-Bowl LT and go into a season with 5 new positions on the OL.

 

Here's to 3-13!!!

 

 

You act like Jauron got his extension after a 3rd consecutive 7-9 season. Get your facts right. He signed the extension when we were 5-1, right before we lost to the Dolphins. Jauron was in the last year of his contract, the team was winning, the fan base was excited. It seemed like a very natural time to sign him to an extension. No one could have anticipated how the season would deteriorate like it did. Oh except YOU, and every other team but the Bengals.

 

So after signing him to an extension you expected the FO to fire him? And then have to pay him for the entirety of the contract? Which would have meant someone like Bobby April would have been our coach for two years to absorb the blow of Dick's contract. Are you insane? It's tough even dealing with fans like you that just spew negativity, when you have such little knowledge of which you speak.

[apuszczalowski]

You do realise it takes more then just the front office to make a deal? Maybe its not the front office holding it up? Maybe its maybins side holding out for more? Or are you just in favour of the Bills just handing over a blank cheque to its picks just to get them in camp

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

This is getting ridiculous. The #11 pick is holding out. I’m getting bored with this kid already. I’m usually pretty even keeled, but I am starting to dislike him. It used to be the first few picks would hold out and be the last to sign. Now #11 picks are among the last? Even if it’s his agent, I don’t care. Call the agent and say get the deal done today. I’m officially questioning his judgment.

 

You're the number 11 most wanted football player in America, and a dog killer gets a deal done faster than you?

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Yeah I`ve had enough of Mr. Greed. I`m waiting for the day he comes to camp and meets Mr. Wood. A couple azz whippings will bring him back to reality.

[socalfan]

I find it odd that only people on the message boards are asking when he will sign.

 

It makes me think that he is a second thought.....the important guys are here.....Wood and Levitre. Maybin really isn't that important to the Bills this year. And I think he becomes less important the more practices he misses. Right now, he will play in passing situations as a rushing DE. But even then, it won't be in every passing situation.

 

Too bad the Bills cannot make the first year of his contract heavily dependent on incentives.

[Turn Down For Watkins]

If you were a fan of any other team you would be laughing your ass off at our FO. Remove the blinders. Orakpo (#13)was signed July 30th and Moreno Aug7th(#12). With the exception of Cincinnati name another organization that would bring back a coach with three consecutive losing years. That being said I don't even think Cincinnati would trade a Pro-Bowl LT and go into a season with 5 new positions on the OL.

 

Here's to 3-13!!!

First off Jason Peters is NOT a pro bowl caliber LT and he should have never even made the pro bowl in the first place. Second off, It was really obvious that he didn't want to be here so why keep a guy who we gave a tremendous oppurtunity too that many other teams wouldn't have done, I mean come on the guy was a TE coming out of college, He should be thankful for the oppurtuntiy that he got. And since he wasn't that just goes to show how much of a scumbag this guy was. And thirdly, Maybin will be signed within the next 12 hours which I think is tremendous. He still has 3 preseason games to play in and I'm sure he will get plenty of reps before the season starts so he is ready to get us 5-8 sacks this year which will definitly help our Defense out

[Tcali]

No, Maybin is a baby. He will not play much this year. No conditioning, no reps = wasted season, this guy was already a questionable pick now he's off to a bad start with his teamates and fans. Laurenites the linebacker with Rams is looking pretty good in the game against the Jets.

dont worry we didnt need DEs anyway

[zazie]

And he had some real competition at DE as a potential starter.

 

His agent is looking at Kelsay and Denney and telling him, don't worry Aaron if you sign the day before the season starts, you will get plenty of playing time...

 

Brown looking great in Carolina he could have been....

 

But good news, we DID get the next Ronnie Lott. Only he is hurt and YET to practice with the team. Maybe he is studying the playbook though!!!

[DazedandConfused]

And he had some real competition at DE as a potential starter.

 

His agent is looking at Kelsay and Denney and telling him, don't worry Aaron if you sign the day before the season starts, you will get plenty of playing time...

 

Brown looking great in Carolina he could have been....

 

But good news, we DID get the next Ronnie Lott. Only he is hurt and YET to practice with the team. Maybe he is studying the playbook though!!!

You do a good job of stating exactly why Maybin is in a contractual position to maximize his take from the Bills. Of course some may wish that he took a more Bills oriented approach than a self oriented approach. However, taking such a collectivist stance would be un-American in our society which values individual rights over what Newt Gingrich called taking a communal view which he finds ideologically problematic.

 

Maybin seems to clearly be practicing the Golden Rule, which under our economic system means he who has the Gold rules. The NFL overall seems to be rejecting the good ol American way where every owner approached life as an individual. However, beginning with the post mid-80s lockout when the old union heads led by Ed Garvey got their butts kicked, the NFLPA pursued a more socialistic system and threatened to simply decertify themselves and force the owners to pursue individual contracts with athletes.

 

The owners read the handwriting on the wall and ran kicking and screaming from a free market approach to make the players essentially partners in the CBA which relied on a designated gross being free from sharing with the NFLPA.

 

The last CBA saw the vision expressed by Gene Upshaw (and to some extent by Pete Rozelle) come to fruition and the players arguably became the majority partners of the NFL with the players receiving just over 60% of the total gross receipts in salary.

 

Perhaps Maybin will suddenly go all communistic on us and sign his deal with the Bills to show he values the collective more than himself.

 

However, I doubt this and Maybin will likely continue to be a good American and try to get all he can economically from his contract.

[zazie]

You do a good job of stating exactly why Maybin is in a contractual position to maximize his take from the Bills. Of course some may wish that he took a more Bills oriented approach than a self oriented approach. However, taking such a collectivist stance would be un-American in our society which values individual rights over what Newt Gingrich called taking a communal view which he finds ideologically problematic.

 

Maybin seems to clearly be practicing the Golden Rule, which under our economic system means he who has the Gold rules. The NFL overall seems to be rejecting the good ol American way where every owner approached life as an individual. However, beginning with the post mid-80s lockout when the old union heads led by Ed Garvey got their butts kicked, the NFLPA pursued a more socialistic system and threatened to simply decertify themselves and force the owners to pursue individual contracts with athletes.

 

The owners read the handwriting on the wall and ran kicking and screaming from a free market approach to make the players essentially partners in the CBA which relied on a designated gross being free from sharing with the NFLPA.

 

The last CBA saw the vision expressed by Gene Upshaw (and to some extent by Pete Rozelle) come to fruition and the players arguably became the majority partners of the NFL with the players receiving just over 60% of the total gross receipts in salary.

 

Perhaps Maybin will suddenly go all communistic on us and sign his deal with the Bills to show he values the collective more than himself.

 

However, I doubt this and Maybin will likely continue to be a good American and try to get all he can economically from his contract.

 

 

Exactly. And when the Bills leverage is named Kelsay or Ellis, or Shobel, or Denney, well that is essentially no leverage at all. The Bills NEED Maybin this year, and he knows it, and Segal the agent knows it. Of course if BRown was in camp kicking ass, then everyone on this board would be saying screw Maybin, and the coaches and FO would have that in their minds also.

 

The pshychology and the dynamics of the deal would be different, and Maybin would be in camp already JMO.

[thewildrabbit]

Two more draft picks signed both drafted before Maybin. The FO is a disgrace....

Not much the FO can do if Maybin and his agent are being greedy

[Steely Dan]

If you were a fan of any other team you would be laughing your ass off at our FO. Remove the blinders. Orakpo (#13)was signed July 30th and Moreno Aug7th(#12). With the exception of Cincinnati name another organization that would bring back a coach with three consecutive losing years. That being said I don't even think Cincinnati would trade a Pro-Bowl LT and go into a season with 5 new positions on the OL.

 

Here's to 3-13!!!

 

It's not the Bills so much as Maybin's agent. Just about all of the guys on the Bills roster understand that he's just doing what he has to do. The Bills have a cap number left for Maybin's signing and so I don't think it's as much about money as it is guaranteed monies and contract length and other minutia. Remember this is a guy who hasn't played down 1 in the NFL and the Bills have to protect themselves in case Maybin busts and Maybin's agent needs to protect him.

 

The delay has a lot to do with Crabtree's signing. If Maybin's agent refuses to talk until that contract is done then the Bills hands are tied.

[Jeffery Lester]

Two more draft picks signed both drafted before Maybin. The FO is a disgrace....

you are an as. why don't you go route for New England or something

[Thurman#1]

First off Jason Peters is NOT a pro bowl caliber LT and he should have never even made the pro bowl in the first place. Second off, It was really obvious that he didn't want to be here so why keep a guy who we gave a tremendous oppurtunity too that many other teams wouldn't have done, I mean come on the guy was a TE coming out of college, He should be thankful for the oppurtuntiy that he got.

 

 

 

I understand that you hate Peters, but that really mean you have to go back into the past and rewrite history and pretend he was really bad all along? I hope not, because that just shows poor thinking.

 

The guy was absolutely terrific in 2006 and 2007, and his Pro Bowl nomination in 2007 was absolutely deserved. Virtually nobody in the league, in Buffalo, nobody at the time doubted or questioned it. For you to do so just shows you're letting your hatred interfere with clear thinking. Just as an example, Dr. Z had him fourth best tackle (LT and RT included) in the league in 2006 and in the top two in 2007.

 

Yeah, he had a bad year last year, and certainly his Pro Bowl berth last year was questionable. But not in 2007.

 

And yet again, there has never been the slightest bit of proof that Peters didn't want to be here. The evidence shows that he wanted more money than the Bills wanted to give him, but that if he'd gotten the same offer here, he'd still be here.

 

And for the twelfth time, if the Bills hadn't given him the opportunity, another team would have. He had many teams interested. The New Orleans Saints, for one. But there were many teams buzzing around him because they thought that in a few years he might possibly be able to make the exact same transition that he did indeed make.

 

Hate Peters? Fine. But don't let it make your thinking imprecise.

[Thurman#1]

dont worry we didnt need DEs anyway

 

 

 

Ha ha ha ha ha. Nice one.

 

I don't like this, it's getting too long, but it's just the way the modern game is going. C'est la vie. He'll be here soon enough. As with most disputes, both sides are somewhat at fault, and blaming one entirely is mostly an emotional reaction rather than being reasonable.

 

Couldn't the Bills give him like a bit more than the slotting would imply just to get him in? Couldn't Maybin's people accept that Crabtree is being unreasonable and calculate using Raji's contract, and last year's #11? Both are somewhat at fault. Let's just get it done.