Marv on McGahee

[generaLee83]

wow, one of the best RBs in the league, one of our only top notch offensive threats, and the message board people try to drive him off the team. He single handedly won the game against Jacksonville and just to show you how special a back he is, look at how the "A-Train" did behind the Bills offensive line. McGahee is a STUD, one of the premier backs in the NFL, and you people just can't appreciate that at all. Unbelievable.

 

Of all the problems we have on this team, RB is the LEAST of our concerns. Every other position on the team has issues, yet the biggest concern here for everyone seems to be our stud running back. Wow is all I can say.

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"one of the best in the league"....................I stopped reading after this.

[BADOLBILZ]

Last year Mularkey put Willis on the hot seat , His comments to the press about the exact same thing. Willis responded for a game or two before reverting back to his current style. Its almost like he doesn't want to get hit.

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It still amazes me that there are people who think that he is this great competitor. It appears Dawgg knows what I'm talking about. McGahee is difficult to motivate because he doesn't care about football and he's unintelligent and mentally weak.

[CFLstyle]

I think people here just don't want to admit all the other problems this team has, so they look at the running back and since he's not God and he can't single handedly win the Superbowl, he's the problem and we need a new running back. Well I havn't heard anything about God declaring for next year's draft, and if he is going to, he'll be going first overall and I'm sure that whoever's picking first overall will not trade down. No team will want to trade God for anything, hell I wouldn't trade God for the entire Colts team, or the Colts offense and Bears defense combined.

 

So, I guess we'll just have to settle on Willis McGahee and try to address the glaring holes on this team that are of CONCERN.

[Fan in Chicago]

My strong hunch is that he takes Marv's advice and we'll all see a difference in his running approach this week.  That's good because it should make a difference and help the team to win.

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And how long will that motivation last ? 2 games ? He plays well for a couple of games after being challenged/called out in some way, shape or form. My these I mean: the challenge by Travis for a starting job, Mularkey's statement about him not hitting holes hard, A Train playing well (which was followed by WM's good performance against Jax). So now we need Marv to mention his 'dancing' for him to play a couple of more good games. He is just not self-motivated guys. He may have talent but talent means squat if it does not translate into consistent performance. I have never been a lover/hater of WM, but the SD game put me firmly in the 'hater' camp much as I dislike such extreme labeling people use on this board. If KellyTFBD makes logical arguments, he is a lover. if someone calls him out for his dancing, he/she is a 'hater'.

[finknottle]

You'll need to support your "he's a stud" and "premier RB" claims with some supporting data or somehow qualify your opinion.  The line appears to be sub-par, and many would agree that the team has greater needs to solve.  He doesn't look anything close to a "premier RB" to me.  We'll certainly know how the Bills management feels about him come contract time.

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But he's our runningback! That definately makes him top 5, regardless of the numbers.

[East Brady]

I think people here just don't want to admit all the other problems this team has, so they look at the running back and since he's not God and he can't single handedly win the Superbowl, he's the problem and we need a new running back. Well I havn't heard anything about God declaring for next year's draft, and if he is going to, he'll be going first overall and I'm sure that whoever's picking first overall will not trade down. No team will want to trade God for anything, hell I wouldn't trade God for the entire Colts team, or the Colts offense and Bears defense combined.

 

So, I guess we'll just have to settle on Willis McGahee and try to address the glaring holes on this team that are of CONCERN.

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God declared for the draft last year and the stupid Texans took some guy named Mario Williams. Go figure......

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Bring back the Willis of old(the one that made Henry look below average)....the one that dropped shoulders, threw stiffarms and ran hard every carry.....

This is not the same Willis...its sad 

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And the Willis of old was consistently breaking it outside, with the stiffarm a major weapon. Where, indeed, has it gone?

[Fan in San Diego]

Can I get an AMEN

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Hell Yes ! Amen !

 

Thurman used to run thru the hole sideways if that was all there was. It was funny to watch him hit the hole running sideways.

[Fan in San Diego]

You are so wrong on this it's not even funny.

 

I can't cout how many times Willis, instead of hitting the hole in front of him to pick up a significant gain, dances around and waits for the hole to close. It's maddening.  This is the NFL... holes, when they are there, close up relatively quickly and it's up to the running back to hit them and hit them hard.

 

Are you telling me that the run blocking was good when Travis was here?  PLEASE.  The line was in shambles back then, arguably worse than it is now... but Travis managed to get positive yardage and even broke out for 5-8 yard gains from time to time. 

 

Not hitting the holes has a far reaching effect.  Drives are much shorter.  More pressure is put on the QBs with 3rd and long situations and most importantly, it dictates the playcalling.

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A-Train was getting good yards against San Diego by pounding it in there. I would have benched Willis and rode the Train !

[cantankerous]

A-Train was getting good yards against San Diego by pounding it in there. I would have benched Willis and rode the Train !

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You mean his 2 carries for 11 yards? WOW!!!!!!

[Boatdrinks]

Well, Kelly drops in now and then and defends Willis for reasons only he knows, but Peter has since disappeared.  I'm sure they'll both chime in and say Marv has no clue as well.  I've been saying this this season and last, consistently.  Not only that, if his running is subpar, what do we have in him?!  He's a terrible blocker, non-existent receiver, terrible short yardage, so what DOES he do so well that these guys defend him game in and game out?  This guy is a big part of the problem, has been for 2 years.  It's pretty clear when a castoff guy like A-Train can play better football than Willis.  The instant Travis left town was when he started his decline and he can be replaced with a mid-round pick.

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Umm... Willis and A-train have identical 3.7 ypc averages. Not sure how that means AT is playing better football. WM likes to dance a bit, no doubt. But what Marv is saying is that our OL doesn't finish off blocks and the hole is only there for a nanosecond. WM must hit that hole and take a couple yard gain because the cutback game just 'aint happening with these chumps up front. It's not exactly Denver's running game here.

[daquixers_is_back]

(flea17 @ Dec 7 2006, 03:43 PM)

Well, Kelly drops in now and then and defends Willis for reasons only he knows, but Peter has since disappeared.  I'm sure they'll both chime in and say Marv has no clue as well.

 

Actually if you read the article you would see that Dawgg conveniently left out the part where Marv said (paraphrasing) "Its a combination of things. The OFFENSIVE LINE ... etc"

 

I've been saying this this season and last, consistently.  Not only that, if his running is subpar, what do we have in him?!  He's a terrible blocker, non-existent receiver, terrible short yardage, so what DOES he do so well that these guys defend him game in and game out?

 

His blocking has gotten remarkably better. Non-existent receiver? Maybe because he has gone through 3 QB's since he has been here, and all of them were below average. They all locked in on their primary receivers. Terrible short yardage? Every short yardage situation I can think of, the offensive line has been stood up at the LOS. Cant blame McGahee for that.

 

  This guy is a big part of the problem, has been for 2 years.  It's pretty clear when a castoff guy like A-Train can play better football than Willis.

 

A-Train can play better than McGahee? Jeez dude look stuff up before you say something. A-Train's three full games he played the #32, #17, and #16 ranked rush defense: Thats an average of the #22 ranked rush defense's in the league.

 

McGahee you might ask? He has played the #3, #7, #27, #1, #2, #22, #3, #5, #6 ranked rush defenses in the league. Thats an average of the #8 ranked rush defense's in the league.

 

Now evaluate what you said again.

[MRW]

A-Train can play better than McGahee? Jeez dude look stuff up before you say something. A-Train's three full games he played the #32, #17, and #16 ranked rush defense: Thats an average of the #22 ranked rush defense's in the league.

 

McGahee you might ask? He has played the #3, #7, #27, #1, #2, #22, #3, #5, #6 ranked rush defenses in the league. Thats an average of the #8 ranked rush defense's in the league.

 

Now evaluate what you said again.

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I wouldn't bother debating flea, he has a serious hate going on for McGahee. I think anyone thinking A-Train is better than McGahee is kidding himself.

 

Having said that, I don't think McGahee is performing like a marquee back, and if he expects to get paid like one I hope the Bills will look elsewhere. I don't think we should be running him out of town, though. I think he'll take himself away soon enough.

[Mikie2times]

People seem to recognize the poor line play year after year but often don't include that in their judgment of other players. Maybe we can get Edge in here to explain how changing OL's can change your rushing average. The bottom line is Willis doesn't rank high on many people's heart meters. You know that invisible quality we like to run players out of town for lacking. I'm thinking that even with the dancing we could do much worse then Willis McGahee.

 

Willis McGahee

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

People seem to recognize the poor line play year after year but often don't include that in their judgment of other players. Maybe we can get Edge in here to explain how changing OL's can change your rushing average. The bottom line is Willis doesn't rank high on many people's heart meters. You know that invisible quality we like to run players out of town for lacking. I'm thinking that even with the dancing we could do much worse then Willis McGahee.

 

Willis McGahee

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When your line sucks, you NEED to run directly up the field. The blocks just won't develop. Willis isn't smart enough to realize this.

[Beerball]

Quotes from Marv in today's D&C...

 

"From a coaching point, I'd say he has to blast it into the line a little more, rather than trying to do the jiggle step and find the opening," said Levy. "He can't think every play is going to break the big one; the big one will come if you keep slamming it in, slamming it in."

 

"Blast it in there and take your three yards, four yards, and all of a sudden he'll explode into the open," Levy said.

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Pull out some TT video for Willis to watch (or Davis might be a better example).

[Simon]

And the Willis of old was consistently breaking it outside, with the stiffarm a major weapon.  Where, indeed, has it gone?

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Remember that time that punk-ass phish safety shoved him in the back late OB and knocked him ass over tincups into that big network camera cart? And then a couple series later a pissed off Willis caught that same dumbass in the open field and hit him with a stiff-arm that crumpled that assclown and knocked him out of the game with a separated shoulder? Besides it being one of my all-time favorite Bills moments from any era it was also about teh last time I saw any tackler stupid enough to try and take him on high in the open field.

And that's where that beautiful stiff arm went.

[5 Wide]

I'm going to take a different angle with Willis. And that is, I just don't know. Some games he pounds and pounds and busts some and fights for yardage. Other games he looks like he's cold and disinterested. Those good games where he runs like his hair is on fire gets me thinking, OK now here's the guy from the U that was a top 5 pick. Then he goes missing for two games and I think, ok here's a guy that really likes all those zero's at the end of his paycheck. I just can't get a consistent read on the guy because he doesn't consistently show up. When he does, he's a good back. When he doesn't, he's just a guy.

[5 Wide]

One thing is for sure though, sometimes patience is good. Sometimes you need to hit it up in there. Willis needs to realize his situations and act accordingly. Sometimes 3 yards would make a world of difference, sometimes you gotta swing for the fences, pick your spots. How many times on 3rd and 9 do we get a pass for 7 or 8 yards? Hitting it up in there to give yourself a 3rd and 5 can make a big difference in continuing a drive...

[keepthefaith]

And how long will that motivation last ? 2 games ? He plays well for a couple of games after being challenged/called out in some way, shape or form. My these I mean: the challenge by Travis for a starting job, Mularkey's statement about him not hitting holes hard, A Train playing well (which was followed by WM's good performance against Jax). So now we need Marv to mention his 'dancing' for him to play a couple of more good games. He is just not self-motivated guys. He may have talent but talent means squat if it does not translate into consistent performance. I have never been a lover/hater of WM, but the SD game put me firmly in the 'hater' camp much as I dislike such extreme labeling people use on this board. If KellyTFBD makes logical arguments, he is a lover. if someone calls him out for his dancing, he/she is a 'hater'.

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I agree with you. He appears to have the talent, but not the heart or the mind each and every week.

[34-78-83]

People seem to recognize the poor line play year after year but often don't include that in their judgment of other players. Maybe we can get Edge in here to explain how changing OL's can change your rushing average. The bottom line is Willis doesn't rank high on many people's heart meters. You know that invisible quality we like to run players out of town for lacking. I'm thinking that even with the dancing we could do much worse then Willis McGahee.

 

Willis McGahee

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You couldn't have possibly said this any better.

[Simon]

Hitting it up in there to give yourself a 3rd and 5 can make a big difference in continuing a drive...

Not to mention 2nd and 6 is a might purtier than 2nd and 9.

And I haven't figured him out either. He was really hammering it N/S in the few games before he got hurt but it was right after he'd spent a month in the backfield lookng like a guy holding a ticket at the top of an aisle.

[keepthefaith]

It still amazes me that there are people who think that he is this great competitor.    It appears Dawgg knows what I'm talking about.  McGahee is difficult to motivate because he doesn't care about football and he's unintelligent and mentally weak.

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Sadly this might be the most accurate statement on this topic. I did hear Willis in an off-season interview say that he really didn't care about football.

[SamsBuffetTable]

To me the big thing isn't the dancing. It is how he doesn't change his style depending on down and distance. On that screen pass he should have taken the first down then attempted to make his move. If he would learn to prioritize as dictated by down and distance I would be much happier with him at RB.

[East Brady]

To me the big thing isn't the dancing.  It is how he doesn't change his style depending on down and distance.  On that screen pass he should have taken the first down then attempted to make his move.  If he would learn to prioritize as dictated by down and distance I would be much happier with him at RB.

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And sadly, that is what has earned him the label - not a smart football player........

 

That right there is the difference between willis and a-train......

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Sadly this might be the most accurate statement on this topic.  I did hear Willis in an off-season interview say that he really didn't care about football.

860252[/snapback]

You should either give us a link or edit your post to not include that second sentence, because as of now it means precisely d!ck.

[jester43]

Not only that, if his running is subpar, what do we have in him?!  He's a terrible blocker, non-existent receiver, terrible short yardage, so what DOES he do so well that these guys defend him game in and game out?  This guy is a big part of the problem, has been for 2 years.  It's pretty clear when a castoff guy like A-Train can play better football than Willis.  The instant Travis left town was when he started his decline and he can be replaced with a mid-round pick.

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i would not say he's a TERRIBLE blocker. i've seen him do a great job on blitz pick-up on many occasions.

 

the problem is you can't count on him to show up week in and week out.

 

when he plays HARD he is an excellent back. much better than thomas. he just doen't always play hard. that's sort of a problem, eh? you hit the nail on the head when you say "The instant Travis left town was when he started his decline..."

 

i'm not slamming the door on him yet but i'm sure he's on thin ice with dick and marv. but i think it's dumb to cut him loose before next season. considering it's his contract year it will probably be the best year he'll ever have as a pro.

 

let him run for 1500 yards next year and THEN let someone else overpay for him.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

let him run for 1500 yards next year and THEN let someone else overpay for him.

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He'll run for 1500 next year if we have a good run blocking line. If we don't, then he will not.

[Lori]

One thing is for sure though, sometimes patience is good.  Sometimes you need to hit it up in there.  Willis needs to realize his situations and act accordingly.  Sometimes 3 yards would make a world of difference, sometimes you gotta swing for the fences, pick your spots.  How many times on 3rd and 9 do we get a pass for 7 or 8 yards?  Hitting it up in there to give yourself a 3rd and 5 can make a big difference in continuing a drive...

860232[/snapback]

And that's why Thurm is on the Hall of Fame ballot. Patient when he could afford to be, but on third-and-three, all but guaranteed to get at least four yards. Neither WM nor AT appears to have that level of awareness; heck, not many RBs do.

 

Is it possible that McGahee is more talented, but A. Thomas's running style fits the current offense better?

[keepthefaith]

You should either give us a link or edit your post to not include that second sentence, because as of now it means precisely d!ck.

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No time for that, but he made that comment in public and I heard it or read it. You can choose to ignore it. To the best that I can recall it was during an off-season interview on the NFL network, or it was from that infamous interview that was done by the Orlando reporter that discussed "baby mommas".

[nodnarb]

At this point, we should all realize that mcgahee is a disappointment. He was supposed to be worth the wait, but schit, who wouldn't have preferred to take larry johnson in that spot? Yes, hindsight cliches. But still, willis is one of the WORST short yardage backs in the entire league.

[stuckincincy]

And that's why Thurm is on the Hall of Fame ballot. Patient when he could afford to be, but on third-and-three, all but guaranteed to get at least four yards. Neither WM nor AT appears to have that level of awareness; heck, not many RBs do.

 

Is it possible that McGahee is more talented, but A. Thomas's running style fits the current offense better?

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Boy, wasn't Eddie George tops at that?

 

Along those lines, I've always felt bad about Ki-Jana Carter's star-crossed career. He would have been a terrific back and a 3rd down and touchdown machine IMO.

[UConn James]

Is it possible that McGahee is more talented, but A. Thomas's running style fits the current offense better?

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More than just possible.

 

I'd say this offense, and especially in the Buffalo & division climate, needs true grit at RB. And hell, all around. Screw finesse.

[BADOLBILZ]

You should either give us a link or edit your post to not include that second sentence, because as of now it means precisely d!ck.

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That came from Willis during his stint on the NFL network last offseason. You know, when he was blowing off an OTA to be there?

[PatPatPatSack]

The way Willis ran in his first 8 games--the stiff arms, the power, the aggressive leveling of tacklers is not the Willis who plays now. He was supposed to be a great pass catcher--he's never in the passing game. He's not a great running back. He'll want tons of cash next year, no doubt.

 

In 2007, he's gone and I won't miss him. A-Train isn't the answer either so it will be interesting to see who the Bills pickup.

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Uh, Willis is the guy who is playing with broken ribs right? I am not a medical expert, but I'm thinkin you need more than 2 weeks to heal broken anything...

 

I'm agreeing with KTFABD on this one fer sure. Willis is a valuable football player for this team. He is worth the dough we are paying for him right now. Next year is next year. Right now, is right now. And right now we got nothing to complain about.

[mborn]

If it wasn't for the fact that Thurman ran a 4.9 forty, he would have been the single greast RB of all time in the history of the NFL.

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Watch a couple of Walter Payton's bad games. Thomas isn't even that good.

[Dawgg]

And after the Jax win, he didn't know what the team's record was... but of course he cares about football and the Buffalo Bills.

 

That came from Willis during his stint on the NFL network last offseason.  You know, when he was blowing off an OTA to be there? 

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[generaLee83]

And after the Jax win, he didn't know what the team's record was... but of course he cares about football and the Buffalo Bills.

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I missed something, is that really true? He didn't know the Bills record after the Jags game?

[daquixers_is_back]

And after the Jax win, he didn't know what the team's record was... but of course he cares about football and the Buffalo Bills.

861328[/snapback]

 

Link?

 

Please tell me that this is not a "personal experience."

[Dawgg]

It is, and I really don't care whether or not you believe me.

 

Please tell me that this is not a "personal experience."

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